The Right Scoop
My mother in law is tiny-less than 100 lbs blue- eyed blonde hair and was pulled out and had the xray or whatever it is. She verbally gave them what for and they just ignored her but unless people stand up for their Constitutional rights they will keep doing this and worse.
All the while they are checking her out-they are probably missing the "terrorist" somewhere in line. I agree with you do what they do in Israel!
"Make a phone call and you'll get the full body treatment"
Now there's a brown shirt talking...
It's all about selling scanners. Who was it that had stock in the company that makes them and then turned around and made an official recommendation that they be used? Conflict of interest, I'd say.
If my old brain serves, it is 12 times more dangerous to drive, than fly. Then, people ski down mountains, too. Enjoy.
Maybe now SOMETHING WILL GET DONE about this DISGUSTING AGENCY.
I am boycotting the whole business and WILL NOT FLY until they stop the pat-downs and intrusive X-Rays.
The Airlines can all go bankrupt for all I care.
The story mentioned he tripped something going through the scanner, supposedly a glitch, at which point they wanted to "pat him down" which he refused. When he went through the scanner a second time nothing was set off.
A few years back, my wife had to take a business trip and she'd let her driver's license lapse. The TSA agent nearly denied her boarding for traveling with ID which had expired 10 days before. She finally got a supervisor with the tiniest amount of common sense to agree to let her board since the photo on the ID was obviously hers and she had not ceased to be herself even though her license had expired - also she wouldn't be using her expired license to fly the plane. Obtuseness on constant display.
I appauld the TSA. A little conversation, another opportunity to check it out. Then, cleared, she flew. Maybe another aircrash avoided.
Doubtful. The lawless fascists in this White House will probably give their Brownshirt here a raise and promotion for a job well done.
I missed your comment before I added mine. Great minds think alike. : ) We must dethrone our dear leader.
Not to mention the indignity; what the TSA did is illegal and unconstitutional. It is illegal to detain a congressman while in session or while traveling to or from Washington. This is another wake-up call that our dear leader feels no fealty to our law.
I've actually made a personal decision not to fly - I made it the summer of 2010 when they put in these absurd 'precautions' that violate my 4th amendment rights. Unfortunately, so many people take the attitude that they just want to be kept safe that they will willingly give away their freedom.
I think Ben Franklin said something about that??.... :-)
The US government and all its agencies excel at only two things: inefficiency and incompetence. The government can take the best idea in the world and mess it up beyond all recognition (see: government cheese) so it's no surprise that government-run airport security would be a joke. If we want secure air travel, the only way to get it is to eliminate government meddling and allow the airlines to do their own screening.
The government will, of course, be resistant to any such changes. Most airports are owned by cities or states, so I wonder if this could be done at the state level. I'd love to see a governor ban the TSA from his state's airports and turn security over to the airport tenants.
This is just a mechanism by which the citizens are conditioned into thinking and believing this is NORMAL behavior and a small price to pay for the "freedom" and "safety".
I'll take the telecommute airline thank you very much.
Article I, Section 6 states:
“The Senators and Representatives…shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace, be privileged from Arrest during their Attendance at the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same….”
Uh-oh. This could be verrry interesting.
It's very politically convenient for the Pauls.....but I have little doubt that he wouldn't have acted differently if his father wasn't running for POTUS.
That same thought did cross my mind as well, but I went with "ironic" instead of "convenient" in a comment on this incident on one of the Rush threads. It does seem a bit strange that a Senator as well known as Rand Paul is in that area (a neighboring state), would be "detained" in an Airport he likely is a frequent user of.
Heh, now where did I put that tinfoil....
Heh, now where did I put that tinfoil....
I stole it all, but if you'd like to buy a custom hat, I have plenty for sale. :)
You see 'ol eagle-eye back there watching the interview, heh.
He brings up a good point that the TSA should be making lists of trusted flyers. You gotta believe Israel's system has a very comprehensive list, and in our large economy it would help screen a lot of people more quickly.
Maybe an obvious voice of reason like this after an incident like this will get the ball rolling on a more logical approach. Oh, wait. That would be logical.
I'll bet $10,000 that the Rand Paul incident will come up tonight - as well it should !
The TSA is crazy
Allow illegals in with phony ID
Help drug dealers traffick drugs
They let guns pass
Strip search Senior Citizens
Feel up little children
Let terrrorists pass for fear of profiling
Steal cash from luggage
Eat cupcakes
Take electronics and then sell them on Ebay before they leave their shift
Search for "intimate items" in luggage
Detain Senators
Blah - Blah - Blah
Let the fun begin!
LOCK and LOAD! (The ballot box of course)
I love how rational he is - and humble. And he mentions the Right to Life speech as one of the biggest in his career. I think his dad is crazy, but I really like Rand Paul..
He's lucky he doesn't have a colostomy bag or pacemaker... TSA is pathetic. We need to impliment the same system Israel has, but of course under the present "administration" anything having to do with looking at Israel is apostacy.
ABC if you think TSA is bad, you wouldn't like flying in my airplane. While I do not have technology, I have the Israeli method of screening. I, myself, am proud of the TSA. You would be amazed how much info, I can get, in just a few moments of talking. It is far far better than just nodding, as they go by. Did I forget to mention, I worked for 30 years at USA airports?
I think there are certain aspects of Israel's security we could implement, but overall, I don't want Americans to have to go through that sort of screening. It is absolutely necessary for El Al to take those steps and, sometimes, violate their customers' civil liberties in order to ensure the survival of their tiny country. That simply isn't what America does.
What I really think should happen is security should be removed from the government's jurisdiction and be turned over to the airlines. Set minimum standards and then let Delta, American and Jetblue etc. determine who they want to let on their flights. Then the customers can choose the level of security screening they are willing to undergo in order to feel safe while they're flying.
It is widely accepted that the current process does nothing to improve safety. I guarantee that nearly everyone would skip the demeaning striptease we have to do now if we were given the opportunity to choose a screening that actually enhanced air travel safety rather than just adding layers of inconvenience.
You understand, what you want, and what is going to happen, are 2 different things. You want to run to the plane, at the last minute, and get on. Actually, you are many times more safe, than before 9/11. Sad, but true, enemies are sitting beside you. You do not understand the situation. 30 years taught me. If you really don't like the screenng, I suggest you walk. Or. learn to fly, yourself, and fly your self. I did.
Have you ever flown EL AL? Or any other airline into Ben Gurion Airport? I have and my civil liberties have never been violated. They have a very sophisticated process of isolating suspects and it has to do with statistical analysis and very specific racial, cultural and visual profiling with regards to more then a single factor. They will look at a specific person, ask specific questions, look at their travel history, and so forthe. If a traveller raises a number of flags they then take them aside to do a more in depth search. The Israeli's were all to happy to share their techniques with the USA after 9/11 and it was refused. So now there is this so called "random" searches and pat downs which are ridiculous.
What Paul suggests is even more further from what the successful Israeli system uses, if you travel frequently then you are more of a risk. It is one of the various warning flags. A friend of mine had a girlfriend in Israel and traveled there a few times a year. He was dutch, white, blue eyes and blonde hair and had to under go a full strip search and cavity search on departure and arrival one time. Just due to his frequent trips in and out of Israel.
So, no offence, but I think you need to know what you are talking about before mentioning anything about El Al and the Israeli airport security system.
Oh, and I do think most people would agree that it is a violation of one's civil rights to detain him for three hours for committing the terrible crime of boarding his sixth flight from L.A. to Cleveland to visit his ailing grandmother. Comparing security procedures of an airline that operates fewer daily flights than many US regional carriers servicing a country with a population smaller than Virginia, to that of the busiest air-traveling country in the world borders on silliness. It only works for them because they're a small country. Israel has also had socialized health care since 1948 and it works for them, but that doesn't mean we should adopt it here.
I disagree about the US air industry being inept. At least, not on its own. The ineptitude of the industry is due, at least in part, to the fact that it is laboring under a regulatory regime comparable only to oil, banking and medical industries, and, in many cases, being strong-armed into idiotic business practices by unions.
I understood your point and I acknowledge your experience but I don't think it's feasible or necessary to implement those practices on such a large scale. Again, I only made statements based on my experience with El Al's customers and the policy information which was shared with me. According to that experience, I have learned that everyone is screened. Security knows who will be boarding their flights before they even arrive at the airport and then makes one-on-one contact with every customer. I've been told this contact usually only lasts a few minutes. One man who traveled there frequently and had for years told me that, even though he had come to know all the security personnel, they never engaged in any small talk with him or exchanged any pleasantries. They were always totally focused on the job. Most pass the screening with no issues, but that doesn't mean they weren't screened. It only means the airline had no reason to go into greater depth.
Doing the same sort of pre-screening as El Al would cover most of the security issues we have here and is financially feasible. However, the expense of manning the airports in the way they do would likely put the airlines out of business.
I do not think you got the point. Israel does not do this type of screening with everyone just those that raise warning flags. I used my two anecdotes to prove the point.
They do not strip search and cavity search everyone. Yet, of course, that's all you read because that makes your argument for you. The American airline industry is one of the most inept in the world and the delays, cancelled flights, lost luggage, and over bookings are infamous. But you worry about a tried and true security apparatus...interesting.
I haven't had the opportunity to travel El Al... yet. However, I used to work in the airline industry and El Al was a partner airline. As part of my job, I was required to know what our customers could expect if they were connecting from one of our flights to one of theirs. So, yes, even though I haven't experienced it for myself, I have some industry expertise and am aware of their procedures.
From my conversations with our common customers, my guess is that 99% or more of their customers would agree that their civil rights had been violated. Most appreciated the screening process. I only talked to one who didn't care for it. Most knew that, because of that extra 10-20 minutes, they would be on a secure flight. You shared two anecdotal experiences. I dare say one of them (your Dutch friend) might have a different opinion as to whether his civil rights were violated. Then again, he may have just accepted it as a consequence of his choice to travel. I doubt everyone who goes through such a thorough screening would see it that same way.
Implementing such a security process here, though, would be a logistical nightmare. Israel is smaller than VT and only has about 100 flights in and out of the whole country all day. Some US airports will see that many departures and arrivals a single hour. It's easy to delay a flight to ensure it's secure if it's the only flight that aircraft will be operating that day. However, when you're dealing with dozens of airlines competing for (and paying for) coveted time slots in crowded airspace, flight delays can cost tens of thousands of dollars (lost revenue, downline delays and potential fines).
El Al has undergone privatization, but they have retained their security measures because they are proven to work. Their measures are successful due in large part the level of training their security personnel undergo. They also employ a particular form of screening that would have many in this country screaming and beating their collective chests over, ethnic profiling. Why do they do this? Because unlike us they are not afraid to acknowledge just who the enemy really is. I agree that the security of the airlines should be privatized and then let the people decide the level of security they want from an air carrier. At the same time let us not forget that air travel is not a "right" it is a "good or service" and that by purchasing a ticket you agree to the "terms and conditions" of use.
Wrong again. When you fly, you face constant threat. Death is a few feet away. You probably want to smoke, also, disreguarding smoking has downed at least 5 air carriers. You cannot have the freedom, to do anything you want, in an airplane. Live with it.
All the more reason to take a very serious look at how the Israelis do things. However, just because we haven't heard of on going threats does not mean they are not out there.
That's my point exactly. The US doesn't face the constant security threats that Israel does, so, at least at this point in time, it wouldn't be necessary for us to go to the same lengths. But some of the more basic, common sense measures should have been implemented decades ago. One simple example would be looking into the travel history and past destinations of the traveler. Having people watch the behavior of the travelers while they're waiting in line and questioning those who look nervous is another one. None of the 9/11 hijackers would have passed these tests.
Instead, we have a federal bureaucracy that is obsessed with fighting the last battle, so we're stuck with our current system... until some Somali guy gets past security with a bomb embedded in his inner ear that's supposed to blast the window out of the plane. Then they'll be checking everybody's ears and making it illegal to allow the airlines to pre-assign the window seats.
Here is one persons experience with El Al security; http://www.usatoday.com/news/sept11/2001/10/01/elal-usat.htm#more
I have flown ELAL many times and I can tell you that what that person writes is basically true. But they do the checks in a way that you don't feel like crap, they make you feel like, it's for your own good.
In Israel it starts on the highway leading into the airport, There are security checkpoints with armed guards, every car is stopped, looked into and a random question asked.
I personally have never gone through the interrogations, I'm just asked some weird questions and that sit. But I speak fluent Hebrew so that helps. But I have seen them doing it to other people.
Once on the plane their service is amazing, they treat you with the utmost respect and will do their best to accommodate your every need.
I have travels many airlines, my two favorite airlines are British Airways and ELAL.
Written just a few weeks after the 9/11 attacks. We all expected some sensible changes to be made to airport security at that time. We expected too much.
Wow, good article. Thanks for finding that. I have heard they are the securest airline to fly with, but to have a personal experience shared is very useful. It would probably be a much bigger operation here, but if our goal is to have secure airlines, it's worth it. Especially if we can overhaul the TSA- or do away with them.
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