This is so sad, I pray for all involved. What the hell is going on in this country? Maybe we should blame Obama, he blames Bush for everything he "inherited."
To all you gun hating libs.....It was not the gun...It was the NUT with the gun....this is a tragedy and for bloomberg to blame guns is foolish.....would it be alright with you to thank the GUN for stopping this nut?....Pull your head out of the sand and thank the officer who risked his life to save other people.....What could have happened in your "no gun utopia" if the officer did not have a gun.......make any sense to you at all..... IF GUNS ARE OUTLAWED ONLY OUTLAWS WILL HAVE GUNS...If the NUT ran over people with a car should we take cars away from everyone???how bout baseball bats,re-bar,rocks,bottles,knives,etc. and what if the NUT killed with his bare hands SHOULD THE GOVERNMENT CUT OFF EVERYBODY's HANDS???...Hey just think ....if you cut off everyone's hands it would be real hard to have a super sized soda!!!!
Bloomberg is a fricking idiot. PEOPLE DO KILL PEOPLE! Guns don't just amble up and start going off. Wonder how this happens in a city that bans guns. Guns kill people like spoons made Rosie O'Donnell fat!
Bloomie is such an idiot. If someone wants to kill, they will find a way whether it is an illegal gun, a bomb or a plane into a building with thousands of people inside. Wake up Bloomie! Less would be hurt and dead if handgun conceal and carry were permitted in NYC.
Here is what is required to get a handgun carry permit in New York City;
Non-refundable application fee: $340, (due at time of submitting forms)
Fingerprinting fee: $91.50
NYC is not a "Shall Issue" municipality (even though New York State is "Shall Issue" they allow cities to not be).
By way of comparison, State of Montana (the entire State, not city by city)
No license requirement to purchase or possess handguns, no permit required for Open Carry.
CWP Fee: $50 for a 4 year permit, $25 renewal
Fingerprinting fee: $5 to $11 (depending on Department and locale)
Montana is "Shall Issue", statewide.
'An NYPD cop on foot patrol — part of the Critical Response Vehicle unit — killed the gunman with one shot.' - NY Post
This is what training accomplishes. Bloomberg was on the radio this very morning talking about banning all guns (only from law-abiding citizens, of course) when what these citizens really need is the ability to conceal-carry with the training and know-how to quickly stop a crazed and dangerous person from accomplishing his goal.
When will the anti-gun activists ever understand.
Maybe when a law-abiding, gun-toting, citizen saves their activist life from one of these hell-bent shooters.
In a city like NY or a state like CA, that gun toting citizen would likely go to jail, or go bankrupt defending themself in court, for their life saving act, even if fully permitted and justified.
The statists know that if they cannot stop us from owning and carrying arms, they will damn sure let us know what will happen to us if we use them.
This is what stand-your-ground laws are for and why the left and their lawyer henchmen intend to overturn them.
This is another tragedy.
I was watching Steve Vai in concert last night and continually caught myself scanning the audience suspiciously and imagining what I would do if a gunman appeared and started shooting up the place. You'd think I would focus on and enjoy one of the best guitarists in the world... but no. I've apparently been terrorized. This just reinforces that.
This will be used to pound in that America needs more gun control. I can almost hear Holder's pen scribbling furiously now. If someone had a legal conceal and carry and was packing heat, this could easily have been avoided.
And yes... this will likely be pinned on the Tea Party.
This is just another lovely distraction for the vacuous Democratic platform.
Pray for the victims and their families.
You are not terrorized. It's called situational awareness. Never stop looking ahead to spot trouble brewing. The precious seconds you gain could save your life or the life of your loved ones.
And concerts aren't immune at all. Remember Dime Bag.
I think I disagree with you. I'm a 2nd degree blackbelt who has taught self-defense to women and led many classes on situational awareness. I'm from the old school of do your best to avoid conflict if at all possible - and to do so, you must be aware what's going on around you. You have a valid point... but this is a little more violent and different than it has been... I literally imagined what it would be like if the performer(s) were suddenly shot while performing. It's more nightmarish than it ever was. Before it was as you intimated - I'd develop scenarios and how I would react, where the exits are, who looks suspicious, etc. I could go on. You are right but it's honestly darker now and a little more serious and frightening then it was before.
And the passing of Dime Bag was premature and a complete tragedy. He is missed greatly.
How horrible for the innocent victims who were just carrying on with their day. I pray for emotional peace for their families.
The deranged gunman set out to retaliate for being fired, and demonstrated extreme hate in his heart
That kind of coldness towards others I will never comprehend.
“The argument guns don’t kill people, people kill people is one of the most disingenuous things you can say,” he said shortly before 9 a.m. - Blooming Idiot.
Bloomberg might consider it "disingenuous," but it is however an absolute 100% fact!
Que the latest gun grabbing exercise by Bloombaby.
Does Bloomberg ever listen to himself?
How many knives jumped off dining room tables and stabbed people today?
You know we haven't heard much about SUV killings lately where SUV's up and take off by themselves and create mayhem.
Guess this gun was the only one to start shooting people today in NYC, meanwhile, in Chicago....
How's those stupid gun laws of yours working out for you Mayor Dumba$$? Looks to me like they are working out about as well as they do in Chicago.
Hey Bloomin' berg. You first. Disarm your security detail. Uh huh. Aaaa shaddup.
Sincere condolences for the victims of this two-legged rat :-(
“It does take a person to pull the trigger, but if they didn’t have the gun… We are the only developed country in the world with this problem.”
Really Mayor? If I recall, Norway has some of the strictest gun control laws in the world, but that didn't stop some crazy guy from getting a gun and killing 80+ defenseless teens last year, nor do the strict gun control laws in Chicago (the strictest in our country) change the fact that Chicago has the highest murder rate by GUN in the country.
And I'm sure blame will be rampant today, so let me get my blame in: I blame Obama and his failed policies, which has resulted in 42+ straight months of high unemployment, for these senseless deaths today.
You are so right!!! According to our fearless leader....you must hate those rich people that don't pay their fair share....
From what I have heard to get a firearm in Norway, requires an individual to apply for a permit for the specific firearm that is to be purchased to the Police Department, waiting time for approval is about 6 months. In addition the list of approved weapons is not very expansive.
Looks like NYC's policy against guns didn't stop this guy from getting one.
But, on the other hand, NYC's enlightened policy certainly guaranteed that no one nearby would have been able to return fire, defend them selves and rid the planet of another minimum achiever.
Good job NY! You make losers into winners and winners get shot in the buttocks. Put you butt out on the street Bloomey.
Anybody Google "New York City A**hole" to see if he was a Tea Party member?
NYC's stict gun laws di squat to prvent this and much to do to embloden it.
When Australia Banned Guns (caution - the opening shots are offensive)
Americans need to prepare for gun confiscation, because it is coming. The globalists in our government won't stop until they have them. They will use federal and local law enforcement to get them, and they will mop up the rest with the military.
Just ask Brandon Raub what they are willing to do, and it has just begun.
Brian Ross should be on ABC anytime now telling us it is one of those extreme right wing TEA party members.
I thought all the NYC gun control laws would prevent this from happening. Must be they haven't passed just the right gun control law yet.
NYC where bottle feeding babies is a no-no.
This crap will happen a lot LESS when citizens with carry permits and their personal handguns SHOOT BACK.
It's NYC, Sullivan Act. The only city that it might (I say, might) be harder for a law abiding citizen to get a handgun and carry permit would be Chicago, but my money is on NYC to be if not harder, much more expensive.
As much as I like to think so, I highly doubt it. These ambush/barrage attacks happen so suddenly and rapidly, and in the most unexpected situations, it is highly doubtful anyone would have the reaction time necessary to end this situation. Remember, it only takes a couple seconds to empty a magazine, and if a shooter is in the crowd, by the time the magazine is empty it would only be maybe 3 seconds. I'm a GREAT shot, but I guarantee you I could not react THAT fast to a completely unexpected threat like that.
You may be right, Brian, but all I know is if I was a patron of that moviehouse in Colorado who was crouching under the seats, protecting my children with my body, I would be much better off carrying when he came walking down the aisle, shooting at will, than I would have been without a CCW (and I realize that establishment was a gun-free zone, but I would then avoid gun-free zone movie houses, 'cause money talks to these people).
It's that point about our own defense that the anti-gun activists fail to realize.
It's true that emotions are running a bit high these days. Perhaps that will lessen after the 6th of November.
At any rate, my prayers are with you, my friend, and with faith in the Lord, all will be well in the end.
Well...I hate to say it, but things haven't been so good. I've got another surgery on Thursday (that'll make 5 or 6 since Spring Break), and then PROBABLY one more after that. They just did my left leg about 5 weeks ago, but it'll most likely need to be done again (just like my right leg did).
Thanks for asking though! It seems like when I DO find time to respond to people, I always end up hearing that either A) I'm an Obama lover or B) they have a temper tantrum and storm off in a cloud of obscenities (kindof like Landscaper did in a post up above). So, I have tried to keep my distance...I'll be more active someday, but that day is probably a bit far away at the moment.
True. Your points are well taken. I just believe that the more opportunities we have, the better off we are. You and I are on the same side when it comes to guns, I know.
If we could get these other people (eg, the shooter in NY), to start thinking that maybe the average Joe behind them has a gun, they may think twice about what they do and where they do it. It will never stop the crazies that perform on the spur of the moment, but for all the others, it may have an impact.
O/T, how are you doing, my friend? I hope and pray your health is on the mend. We don't get near enough of your posts around here lately and that saddens me. More from you is better, I say. You were one of three people on this site that got me talking to start with (not that that was a good thing, lol) and I always appreciate your input on all topics. Hope to hear more from you.
Good point. But I guarantee you would have had much more time to mentally asses the situation and to prepare for a counter-attack than the people in this situation. I personally agree with you, that if there were a majority of people packing heat in the Colorado movie theater, things probably would have turned out differently (and for the better). I just don't see how that could be said for THIS situation.
You have a point, Brian, but I think the operative phrase was "a lot less." The knowledge that a high percentage of your fellow citizens are carrying tends to temper even the thoughts of a madman.
They could up armor and bring more firepower, I suppose, but it gets difficult to hide that stuff.
Besides, even totalitarian governments have shootings like this. It's certainly not the law that prevents them.
I wasn't exactly disagreeing with ya, there. I simply modified your point a bit.
I'm not one of those nuts that thinks a moviegoer with a wbc glock would have prevented all the deaths in Colorado.
All I was doing was pointing out that it's definitely better to have others around us carrying. It won't stop all the crazies, but it will stop more than the law will, and will slow almost all of them down.
I'll agree it's better if we all go armed! But we're gonna have to disagree as to being able to stop an active shooter in that situation with a ccw.
Well, another factor discussed by the "tactical" folks is that one guy in the crowd with a gun will draw the shooters attention, whether he can put the assailant down or not. This factor alone might save lives.
So I say better we all go armed.
Of course the law won't prevent them! In fact, I LOVE CCW permits! I live in Southern California, and I wish to GOD they would let me carry my Ruger in public!
BUT, it drives me up the wall when I see people on the right using this argument that more CCW would STOP these situations, because it is easily countered by the left. CCWs might PREVENT these situations from occuring sometimes, but typically the only thing to END the rampage once it begins is the police or the shooter having a malfunction or running out of ammunition. Unfortunately, it's just true...
Er... wasn't this situation stopped with one shot by a patrolling cop? Couldn't it have been ended more quickly if one of the nearby innocent bystanders had been armed? There is obviously no way to prevent the initial killing or two, but if more people carried, these types of spree killings would be much shorter and result in much less loss of life.
Read the link I posted up above to Landscaper. It is a study showing average and fastest response times in different scenarios. Then, you tell me if that would be enough time for you to react. Either way, more CCW is a good thing...I just don't believe in trying to justify it by claiming it would have helped in this situation...
More information coming in about this particular shooting -- it's looking like it wasn't a spree shooting after all: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/aug/24/empire-state-building-shooting-nypd-response?newsfeed=true
But generally speaking, the more law-abiding citizens who have guns, the safer the streets will be. As we've seen in many other spree shootings, the police can't be on the scene right away. But bystanders are there right when it begins. If said bystanders are armed and trained, the death toll can be minimized greatly. I dunno, that seems pretty self-evident to me.
The cop walked on to him after all of this began, and after several people were already shot...the damage was already done. How long would it take YOU to empty a magazine? Because that's how long it takes HIM to empty one, and now you tell me if that'd be enough time for you (who was simply walking to work NOT expecting any weird stuff to happen) to react to bullets flying and shoot him dead. It helps a lot that the cop involved WASN'T GETTING SHOT AT, so he wasn't clouded with a bit of surprise and panic like the rest of the potential victims were.
Brian, I disagree strongly. Citizens firing back happens all the time but it dosen't make the front pages. EVER.
No, the situations where citizens fire back are muggings/carjackings/robberies/home-invasions/assaults/rapes/etc. There is FAR MORE TIME to asses THESE situations than there is with a random shooting AS THE BULLETS ARE ALREADY FLYING. There just isn't enough time. The ONLY thing having a large population of CCW holders would do in these situations is to possibly discourage the shooting from happening in the first place, although I strongly doubt even that would apply to THIS situation (the guy was clearly suicidal and insane).
You're forgetting one thing though. These kinds of shooters are cowards. The very idea that there may well be armed citizens around him willing to take him down if he pulls a shooting stunt will have the effect of preventing this coward from doing it in the first place. It won't stop all of them, but I believe it will stop most.
Think about it. You're a criminal. There are two towns. In one, all guns are banned, and in the other all citizens are mandated to own guns and pass competency tests every 6 months. Which town are you going to enter and try to rob the bank?
If I were a criminal, I know which town I'd be heading towards.
Oh, you're one of those people that when confronted with factual, research articles in a debate, they get upset, have a hissy-fit, and stomp away. I had a point to make and I made it. If you want to get mad, have at it dude...
Oh, and BTW...I'm an airman, own a Ruger P90 .45ACP, and train OFTEN...just in case you think I'm some kind of wuss talking out of my a$$...
Mother Jones, I'm a landscaper, not a Ranger, Special Forces, Super Cop or Secret Service. If you are the expert, please feel free to save us all... gezzz mr. "my opinion is my facts". I'll carry MY GUN, you do what the heck ever. At least I have a chance to NOT BE A VICTIM. Blow me.
Oh, and also, in 1990 at a Shooting Competition, the then World's Fastest Shooter Rob Leatham timed 2.55 seconds for shooting 5 targets, beginning with hands at shoulder level and firearm holstered (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCAQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.investigativesciencesjournal.org%2Farticle%2Fdownload%2F5382%2F3750&ei=bb83UJvMA4SWiAKw4oH4BQ&usg=AFQjCNFWeAkuSV16YAXvgObrOvm7-MdBGg).
Now, HOW MUCH TIME would it take YOU to react to the situation in question, especially given the incredible shock that occurs in the situation of a random, completely unexpected shooter event?
Okay, so what is the minimum amount of time it would take YOU to react in that situation??? 3 seconds is pretty much an instantaneous reaction in that situation, and no one could be expected to react any faster (although it IS possible that someone might, but it is an exception). THINK ABOUT IT MAN!!! I laid out every step in the threat-response-flowchart...how long do those steps take YOU? I know for a FACT how long they take me, and everyone I know that shoots...
And how did the Colorado shooting come into this argument we have? I never mentioned it...
BUT the gunman in Colorado STOPPED to reload Brian. If you have facts about the 3 second argument, it's only an opinion. Which you are entitled to have by the way, everyone has one.
You're absolutely correct. However, what we're dealing with in THIS situation is an insane person who has ALREADY CHOSEN to shoot a bunch of people. He's DEAD now, and there's NO WAY he didn't see that coming! Therefore, he is completely irrational and would have pulled the same stunt ANYWHERE in America (even in the fictional town where everyone had guns).
The point here is that this shooting WAS GOING TO HAPPEN, and it didn't matter where. And once the shooting starts, given that there was NO NOTICE, there simply would NOT be enough time for innocent bystanders (potential victims) to assess the situation, determine the threat, remove their firearm from the holster, aim the firearm, and then fire. All of those things would need to happen within roughly 3 seconds (at most), and it usually takes about 1.5 seconds JUST to assess the situation, and another 1.5 just to find the threat.