By The Right Scoop


This is an interesting story:

The state championship baseball game between Mesa Preparatory Academy and Our Lady of Sorrows Academy was over before it even began. The reason the teams did not play on Thursday night is because the second baseman for Mesa Prep is a girl. The team’s coach said that girl helped the team go undefeated so they weren’t about to play in a championship game without her.

Basically, the catholic school believes in educating boys and girls separately, especially in physical education. So they decided not to play in the championship, giving Mesa Prep the victory.

Watch below:

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  • Right_Wingnut

    Dumb…..

  • odin147

    rules are rules.

  • teri_b

    The worst example of this sort of “integration” is when boys are forced to wrestle with girls, just because the girls felt entitled to compete.

    I never allowed my boys to participate, and they were accused of being afraid of being beaten by a girl. In reality, we are supposed to train boys to become men who protect and honor women in all circumstances.

    God Bless these young men and their parents and coaches.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5L4RE3FBBG5SN3KXERKJZ53VLU Stormwalker

      Dear teri-b,

      Spoken like a true “I-Don’t-Know_What”!

      The ‘girls’ I’ve seen in Pankration competitions, and yes, teri_b, they were “integrated”, could take care of themselves on the street, very well!

      Question:
      “Were there a time that ‘your boys’ were ever called upon to defend this country, would you raise a stink, because the military is “integrated”?”

      Speaking from the viewpoint of a high-school athlete, lettered twice, those of you who chose to ‘Forfeit/Quit/Give Up/Lose Without Trying’, just robbed those team players of what might have been a championship game! They might have really WON! They’ve played all season, and were, obviously, had the abilities necessary to get to that game level. But, noooooooooo! Those of you who chose to QUIT, just showed these fine athletes, that no matter how well they might perform, there would always be someone, to change the rules, and leave them flat! You just killed their desire, and the chance to be spotted by college agents, because you would not let them “play against girls”!

      So, in this present, “Everybody Wins”, “Nobody has enough self-esteem”, scholastic world, you just dropped a bag full of “dog-whatzit” on their heads.

      • kong1967

        “dog-whatzit”? Lol, I agree.

      • KenInMontana

        Spoken like a true quibbler. Learning to stand on one’s principles, even if it means taking a single loss, will provide a better life lesson than discarding them to secure a “win” on the playing field. It actually builds moral character, something that is sorely missing in this country, the shining example of this has come to fruition and currently resides at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

        Denigrating their stand by comparing support of that stand to a bag of dog offal, or labeling sticking to one’s beliefs as quitting, places you squarely with that company of has been jocks that populate sports bars across the country, bragging about their past accomplishments, while drooling in their cups. You rant about “changing the rules” while a changing of the rules is precisely what you are advocating here. To win by discarding one’s beliefs is not truly a “victory”, not to mention the pitfalls of a career in sports without the accompanying personal principles has been fully displayed many times in this country. The notable examples of this lack of fiber and character are too many to list here, but I’m sure if you think about it for a bit you’ll come up with a handful fairly quickly. After all, the sports magazines and the scandal sheets list the results with alarming regularity.

        Speaking from the point of view of having attended both Catholic and Public schools, the reasons many non-Catholics send their kids to Catholic/Private schools are for the academics not the athletics, and the self discipline learned in that scholastic first atmosphere has proven life benefits and transitions to the playing field as well. The lessons of self esteem are hardly exclusive to the playing field.

        Speaking from the point of view of a Marine veteran, I would rather women were kept clear of combat, that is not to say that woman aren’t capable of withstanding the rigors of it, just that I would rather they were spared the horror of it. I also agree with the notion, that their presence would provide a distraction, not a sexual one, in my own case, but a chivalrous one. As anyone who has experienced combat will tell you distractions are a challenge to discipline, and a failure of discipline will get you killed, and getting killed benefits only your opponent.

        • teri_b

          Thank you, Ken. I never thought I would get criticized for teaching my sons chivalry. Nice to know that I am not alone.

          • B-Funk

            Don’t worry, chivalry isn’t dead. It’s still out there. ^_^

          • JimmyBleep

            I thought chivalry was to honor women. This girl has been singled out as the reason the championship game cannot be played. How do you think that makes her feel? There is nothing chivalrous about this act.

            • KenInMontana

              The subject of Chivalry, has little or nothing to do with the story and stems from my comment above, nor did anyone in this comment string imply that it did.

              • JimmyBleep

                Ken, my response was directed to terib, not you.

                • KenInMontana

                  I know who you directed your response to, and terib was responding to me. So what’s your point?

            • Boris_Badenoff

              The girl did not call it quits, she is not the reason the game was not played. Someone on the other side made that decision.
              Placing the blame on her is a pathetic loser’s way out. If you are going to take that stand at least have the courage to accept the responsibility for your decision.

              Chivalry my a$$.

            • Richard Easbey

              Sorry, JimmyBleep, but she IS the reason the championship game can’t be played, and frankly I don’t care how that makes her feel.

              • Boris_Badenoff

                No it is you who is incorrect.
                The championship game was in fact Not played because the other team forfeited the game. The girl did not make that call, someone with the control over the opposing team made that call.
                Your effort to blame the girl for a direct action of the other side is pathetic and indicative of the mindset of people who are unwilling to accept reality when it does not conform to their agenda.
                Try to rationalize it away all you want.. pathetic.

              • JimmyBleep

                Of course you wouldn’t. Why consider how someone else feels?

            • teri_b

              No, the team that forfeited was the reason the game wasn’t played. They let her and her team win the championship.

              • JimmyBleep

                When you win a competition via forfeit, it is hollow. Nobody really “won” that championship. If my gender, race, or anything that is an aspect of who I am as a person became the reason the game couldn’t be played, I would feel horribly insulted and the focus of the reason why the game couldn’t be played. You don’t enjoy wins like this because you did not earn it.

                • http://profile.yahoo.com/Q7KN3JVVM5262SDYUCYOOZYN34 Peter Warner

                  I don’t think any one is blaming the female player.

                  The fault (in my view) is not in her, or in the team that felt compelled on principle to decline to play against a mixed-gender team.

                  The fault is in the team that chose to be mixed gender, thereby violating the tradition of the sport, the standard of the athletic association, and the trust of the other teams in that association (I’m assuming the other teams are not mixed gender).

                  If you violate tradition, abuse standards and break trust, you will have to endure the consequences. Mesa Academy may think they were doing a good thing, but the result is that they robbed their program of a valid championship, and they robbed an obviously talented female player of a sense of true contribution.

                  She should not have been on the team in the first place. The fault lies in those who put her up to it, and failed to place her in a program where she could have contributed without restraint or disruption.

                  Consider also her teammates, now denied the chance to earn a championship. Their coaches created that situation, and everyone is now paying a price for it.

                  The administration of Mesa is at fault.

                  Best regards, Peter Warner.

                • JimmyBleep

                  I agree that it is not her fault, but from her perspective, I’m sure it is. There is no other way for her to take it. We had traditions in other sports not to allow players from other races to compete. Even today, some people are upset that blacks play in pro sports. Race and gender are generally different issues but in this case it is about competition. Usually the sports have different gender versions because girls cannot compete with boys. In this case, the girl can compete on the boy’s level. There is no valid reason to deny her claim to play other than discrimination.

                • Boris_Badenoff

                  “I don’t think any one is blaming the female player. ”

                  Then I suggest you re read some post here.

        • http://no-apologies-round2.blogspot.com/ AmericanborninCanada

          Excellently said Ken.

        • JimmyBleep

          What are the principles being taught by this forfeit?

          • KenInMontana

            I think you can glean that from the the story and comments posted can you not? Or do you require further explanation of standing one’s ground based on principles held by an individual or group of individuals?

            Or perhaps you’re just bored and trolling for a fight?

            • JimmyBleep

              Not trolling. The story has only cited “moral” values. Call me naive if you want but please explain it to me. What high moral says not to compete against women? Perhaps this is a generational issue.

              • KenInMontana

                The School in question, as pointed out in another comment, is of an Order in the Church called Society of Saint Pius X. They are a hard line old school type of Catholic and have been declared as “Non-Canonical” by Pope Benedict, because of doctrinal disputes with the Holy See. Meaning that their ministries are not considered legitimate by the Church. This faction arose in oppositional response to Vatican II, although there are several “Conservative” Orders within the Church, Opus Dei being one of the most well known, however the ArchBishop of this Order chose to defy Pope John Paul II and consecrated several Bishops resulting in several excommunications for those involved. These excommunications were remitted with conditions ( a kind of Catholic parole ) around 2009, if memory serves. Their views and doctrine are not official nor indicative of Catholics. That said, these views are their religious views and they do have the right of free exercise, which is the bone of contention here. While they are not as abhorrent as, oh say, the Westboro Baptist Church, they are hardly deserving of being equated to Sharia or to be used to whole cloth defame and condemn Catholicism, any more than all Baptists deserve to be condemned for the views or actions of the WBC.

                • JimmyBleep

                  Thanks Ken. Obviously this is a blip story and not a major issue at all. It is a fun one to discuss but has zero link to Sharia. Not sure why others were comparing the two. It is as if I said I refuse to eat at a table where venison is being served because of my love for deer, and now my diet is being compared to Sharia. Silly.

                  I never heard that story about this school/catholic order. Very interesting. I still fail to grasp their logic to denounce coed sports. The message here seems to be that one should stay away from those with different beliefs and lifestyles. It borders on xenophobic. It is prohibits education. It certainly does not enhance moral character.

                • KenInMontana

                  The point is their beliefs prohibit coed sports, which they took a stand for. Standing up for what you believe despite the heat, vitriol, and rhetoric you take is the lesson and is a part of an education in principles and character. Besides it is their right, to follow their expressed religious beliefs, you have a right to ridicule it of course but, they aren’t forcing those beliefs on you or anyone else, they’re the ones “taking it on the chin” over this and the fact that they do it, without complaint, whining or suing anyone over it, is indeed a lesson in building moral character. I may not agree with their views, but I do respect their integrity in standing by what they believe. Labeling it as “bordering on xenophobic” borders on ignorance and fear itself, ironically. As to whether or not it “prohibits education”, first off it’s a baseball game we are actually talking about here, however many faiths and cultures, segregate boys and girls in the education process, in one form or another, they still (in most cases) receive the same education, without the added distractions brought on by puberty (mainly what they are concerned with). What it boils down to is that this Order or Sect of the Catholic Faith has a right under our law to freely exercise their beliefs, especially as that exercise harms no one and breaks no laws. If the tables were turned in all this, just how long do you think it would be before some whinny arsed “parent” would be suing over this?

                • JimmyBleep

                  How is calling this xenophobic, ignorant or fearful? They are the ones scared to mix boys with girls. It prohibits education in the sense that it literally takes a potential experience in life away from their students. What happens when these boys eventually find themselves in competition with girls in the real world? Should they compete in spelling bees? Should they forfeit a job interview to show they are willing to step aside for a woman to get by? There is nothing to gain from the act.

                • http://profile.yahoo.com/Q7KN3JVVM5262SDYUCYOOZYN34 Peter Warner

                  Question for JimmyBleep:

                  Would you be comfortable having your own son competing against a girl in wrestling?

                  Athletic competition is dramatically different than academic competition.

                  Also, having a girl (or girls) in a team of boys creates dynamics that are natural, predictable, and divisive. In a classroom, those dynamics can still be directed in a constructive manner, and so I actually prefer mixed gender classes (I’m a teacher of children and teenagers).

                  In athletic situations, the dynamics and disruption are far more severe. I don’t believe you can build team unity (in athletics) with a mixed-gender group.

                  The bottom line is that boys should not compete physically against girls: it’s not morally healthy, and degrades both. The Catholic school should be commended for their wisdom and courage.

                  Best regards, Peter warner.

                • JimmyBleep

                  I don’t have a son Peter, but I have competed with girls personally. I experienced similar frustrations with losing and euphoria with victories. Being a man, losing to a woman is emasculating. But not moreso then in academic or real world competition. We have witnessed handicapped individuals compete at the pro level in sports in a similar fashion. Closing the doors to people based on perceived weaknesses only reduces competition. If a girl can compete, she should play.

              • teri_b

                It might be considered a generational issue by some, but that kind of implies that we should all be “progressive”.

                Freedom dictates that we can raise our kids however we want (within the law), and it doesn’t have to be the current popular opinion.

                • JimmyBleep

                  Progressive is a positive word and is only divisive when it comes to politics. There is nothing wrong with preparing kids for the world that they face versus the world we faced as kids.

            • JimmyBleep

              Not trolling. The story has only cited “moral” values. Call me naive if you want but please explain it to me. What high moral says not to compete against women? Perhaps this is a generational issue.

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5L4RE3FBBG5SN3KXERKJZ53VLU Stormwalker

          Dear Ken,
          As a ‘veteran to a veteran’ (Class of S.E.A. – TDY’s to where I was required included 1971-1974), your comment about ‘women in the military’ might be a valid one. I have had the distinct pleasure of ‘meeting and working with Israeli Defense Force frontline grunt-esses’, and they showed me very well, what ‘building a wall with a spear in hand’ (check your Ta’anach for further definitions) really meant, and could have, at that time in your military career, still taught you a new move or two.

          Ask the Russians about women in the military. Who flew Stormovik aircraft against German tanks? Who were some of the better snipers? Did you know that the late Golda Meier, PM of Israel, was an army sniper?

          The old argument of ‘chivalry and women in combat’ is a dead issue, or one left to pentecostalists, who wish their women to submit to their husbands, only. I’ve seen enough Thai Communist women assault teams, Khmer Rouge, and even Thai Mohammedan Jane Jihads, to establish that viewpoint.

          • KenInMontana

            It is a culture based perception, granted, but that doesn’t make it any less valid and in my case, it’s a personal observation/bias. I never said women were incapable of dealing with it or that they should be barred from it. In the case of the Israelis and the Russians they are/were in “all hands on deck situations”. Yes, I have more than a passing familiarity with the subject of military history and women in combat and yes, I am aware of Golda Meir’s service to her country.

            My use of the concept of “chivalry” towards the idea of women in combat had no bearing on how I dealt with the enemy regardless of gender, while serving, gender was not a consideration, if you came at us armed and in opposition, you received your “recommended daily dose of lead”. We were equal opportunity before it was in vogue. As far as the idea of “women submitting to their husbands”, while that idea has had a certain, periodic, wistful appeal (that’s tongue in cheek humor there), it is not a view I hold to, nor one put forth in Catholic doctrine. However, that view is a bit wider than just Pentecostals, there are more than a handful of Faiths that hold to that belief and if it works for all involved, great, it is not something I’m going to lose any sleep over, nor is it something I will condemn or judge them for, that is reserved to a “higher authority”.

      • teri_b

        I hate the self-esteem movement. I think of this as the opposite: rather than everyone gets a trophy for participating, these young men gave up their chance at a championship because of their principles.

        I am sure it wasn’t an easy decision, but when parents choose a particular private school for their values, you can’t change the rules on them for convenience.

        If their were any disgruntled kids on the forfieted team’s side, my bet is that the media is looking for them.

        • JimmyBleep

          Did the kids forfeit or was it the school? I think we know this was less about the players and more about the Catholic administration.

      • Richard Easbey

        It’s a little something called PRINCIPLES, Stormwalker. Something I’m fairly confident you know nothing about.

      • MacSwain

        I don’t know why you chose to throw in this ‘military’ question:

        Question:
        “Were there(sic) a time that ‘your boys’ were ever called upon to defend this country, would you raise a stink, because the military is “integrated”?”

        But since you did, suppose you note when the first female makes it through SEAL training. You will be waiting a very long time. There is a diffierence between males and females. And let me interrupt you before you start about women are doing combat training in the Army at present.

        Do some research and check what basic training consisted of for new recruits before ‘integration’ as to the weight of packs, length of forced marches, runs, number of reps in calisthetics, etc., etc., etc. Then don’t think women being included in the same basic training with men had absolutely nothing to do with those requirements being lowered.

        We all have seen hours upon hours of video from Irag war. Have you ever seen a female rifle-person out there with the riflemen clearing those buildings block by block? Bearing in mind females have and still do take spots in basic training. Do you know how much full battle gear weighs? Then add in the weight of weapons and ammo while they are sprinting house to house and charging up stairs in 110+F temperatures.

        There is a difference between men and women no matter how much some wish there not to be as they continue to hope their wishing it so will create a unisex utopia.

        Now to get back on topic and back to sport. You indicate these players do so with the hope of a being picked by college agent. Do you think the second base-person has hope of that ocurring? I hope all these students go to school to be taught academics not baseball.

    • kong1967

      How many women’s baseball teams do you see? For some girls softball isn’t good enough, and I think it’s pretty sexist to think that we can’t let them compete with men if they so choose AND if the league/coach/team don’t have a problem with it.

      I would have a problem if the men wanted to compete in womens sports because of the obvious physical advantage, but women don’t have that advantage over men so the reverse isn’t true.

      Let her play.

      • teri_b

        Kong, I certainly sympathize with the predicament the girl was in, and thought she handled it very maturely and gracefully.

        I have had problems with my boys being in integrated gym classes. I homeschooled, but my kids participated in lots of classes at the local school and all the sports teams. In one gym class, they had all the kids on mats (standing) and pushing each other until their partner was pushed off the mat. My son refused to push a girl, and I was proud of him and outraged at the ridiculous assignment.

        The worst episode was when the kids were supposedly doing a “trust” exercise and were rolling on top of each other. These girls were past puberty. That was the last straw.

        But I agree that the baseball seems pretty harmless in comparison. I think the general principle of keeping the genders separate for physical education was worth standing up for, however. If my kids had been enrolled in school, that would be the kind of Catholic school I would want available.

        • kong1967

          Your situation was quite a bit different and very understandable. That’s forced participation and the teacher has a choice of what activities to have them do. The teacher probably got turned on by it. That might sound laughable, but my co-ed gym teacher always walked amongst the girls while we were doing our stretch exercises that if you’re thinking sexual would be an awesome thing to watch. Boys were on one side and the girls on the other and he never walked amongst the boys. We thought he was the biggest pervert alive and made fun of him all the time.

          But in this case the Catholic school knew the rules and that the possibility of playing a team with a girl on it is always there from year to year. My only point is that if you aren’t willing to play with the rules that are in place, don’t play. They ruined everything for the kids on both teams. I’m sure none of the kids wanted to miss the game. Adults happy, kids disappointed…over something so trivial as this.

          • teri_b

            I do think the gym teacher (female) that had the kids rolling over each other was a pervert. There was no point to the exercise.

            I personally never had a gym class that was co-ed, and I am glad. Gym class is hard enough during adolescence without compounding the humility. I was a pretty good athlete, but still felt self-conscious.

    • JimmyBleep

      I have competed against women. I have beaten them and been beaten by them. They are worthy competitors. I’ve learned from my defeats and have probably taught them lessons when I have beaten them. Hiding away from experiences in life doesn’t really make someone a better person. Treating women like people and not delicate flowers is honoring them. Then again, this could have to do with preferences. I have always been far more attracted to ambitious women in my life than the complacent ones.

    • ApplePie101

      Baseball is one thing, wrestling quite another. I agree that in wrestling and other contact sports, girl/boy match ups are a bad idea.

  • http://no-apologies-round2.blogspot.com/ AmericanborninCanada

    I wouldn’t exactly call it bigotry. I can see both sides of this story and both have valid points where neither are wrong. I always wanted to play baseball, but back when I was growing up, girls didn’t play, so I was stuck playing catch with my dad in the backyard and practicing batting on the weekends at the school yard. I can understand this girl wanting to play because it was the only choice available to her, and think it’s great that the school allowed her to play, and she proved herself to be a good player.
    I can also understand that the other school had it’s own rules and beliefs to not want to play with teams which go against their beliefs. It’s sad that they couldn’t come to a mutual decision for the playoff game but that happens and I don’t believe the school was acting in a bigoted way for sticking to their convictions. It’s just hard for the kids though of both schools who played well enough to get to playoffs, and to where one team wasn’t able to have the shot to win, and the other team who won but having a hollow victory. Maybe the kids will learn that disappointments happen in life, but even disappointments can be worth it if you’re willing to stand strong on your convictions.

    • kong1967

      I don’t disagree with you often, but I do this time.

      I don’t like it when people act like anyone who doesn’t conform to their point of view doesn’t deserve to play a role in life. If they are playing a team that is not Catholic they should not expect the team to “conform” to their way of thinking….or to even say “they aren’t like us so we refuse to play”.

      People are human beings and it’s just a baseball game. What is this teaching the kids? You cannot mingle with anyone who isn’t Catholic. It’s absurd. As a I said before, I am anti-gay but I do not treat them poorly and I do not try to stop them from living a life. My niece is bringing a gay guy with us to the races tonight and I will treat him the same as anyone else.

      Isn’t it the Muslim way of thinking that you either conform or you can’t play? (which in their case it’s “can’t live”).

      EDIT: Are the Catholics so afraid of letting their kids see something done other than the way they are being taught? Isn’t that what you would call a cult?

      • teri_b

        As a Catholic, I didn’t jump to the conclusion that this was dictated by any specific doctrine. I think it was a question of which values this particular school espoused.

        • kong1967

          Yeah, I understand why they did it, but I just don’t think it was fair the kids.

      • http://no-apologies-round2.blogspot.com/ AmericanborninCanada

        I can see your point kong, but I still think the Catholic school had every right not to play if that went against their principals. It couldn’t have been easy for any of them, but again, maybe the kids will learn that either standing for what they believe in is worth more than winning, or in the case of the young lady who wanted to play- she could fight for a way to allow for girls teams. Trust me, I would have loved to play as she did, and I tried fighting for the right back then, but times were different and no one listened to a scrawny 12 year old four eyed girl. Things are different now and maybe if she and others truly believe in allowing girls to play on a team, and are willing to find enough interest, other schools will follow.

        • kong1967

          I can understand standing up for principle, but they knew the rules of the league and they should be willing to participate with all the rules and not just ones of their choosing.

          If you are on a baseball team and one of the teams is all Muslim, do you refuse to play? Does playing the game make you a part of what they believe? Does it mean you condone or accept what they believe? No.

          No worries, you’re still my favorite participant on this site. Just don’t get on my bad side again, lol (joking jab).

          • http://no-apologies-round2.blogspot.com/ AmericanborninCanada

            ;-)

  • Manny Laureano

    I think it’s a bit silly because baseball is different from football and wrestling. You can be a smaller male and still excel at baseball. But, as they say, rules are rules.

    • kong1967

      She played all year and she wasn’t violating any rules. Maybe the Catholic school should not participate in a league where they are not willing to abide by the rules themselves. The rules say that if a particular sport is not offered for the girls they must be allowed to play with the boys.

      As you said, rules are rules and it was the Catholic school that refused to follow them. My solution would be to not allow them to participate in the league any more. If you can’t follow the rules or play with another team that IS following the rules, don’t play at all.

      • KenInMontana

        No one said that the young lady was in violation of any rules, and apparently the Catholic school in question has abided by these same rules, otherwise they wouldn’t be in the league. Would they? The rule in question, allowing girls from a school to play if their school has no equivalent program for them, isn’t the issue nor has this Catholic school challenged it, they accepted it and forfeited the game rather than compromise on their beliefs (as is their right). Forfeiting a game is a rule of baseball, so rather than scream, cry and moan about a girl being able to play in the league (which according to the story, they did not) they followed the rules and forfeited the game.

        • kong1967

          I can accept that but I think the whole thing is rather miniscule and trivial. Taking something away that meant a lot to these kids over something so stupid (in my opinion) is too heavy handed.

    • JimmyBleep

      I have seen instances where girls can hold their own against boys in wrestling and recently there was an amputee boy who was tearing it up in high school wrestling. We need to stop creating reasons to disallow people to compete. If the person is good enough to compete, then have the balls to face them. If they aren’t good, they won’t be there to compete against.

  • teri_b

    In an age where kids can be accused of sexual harrassment at age six for singing a popular song, how do they expect boys to participate in any sport with girls? Even in baseball, they can bump into each other. The other sports are much worse.

    • JimmyBleep

      I think the opposite is true. In an age where kids are accused of sexual harassment for singing, we SHOULD be doing more boy/girl integration to break down those idiotic actions taken by the few. Everyone comes to the defense of the boy who sang that song. People know what is right and what is wrong. We should not hide. That’s when the wackos win.

      • teri_b

        I agree with the idioticness of some of the situations. But it gets a lot more fuzzy when someone can get accused of groping when they bump into someone. We’ve all known girls and women who think all guys are animals (you know, the militantly feminist types).

  • http://twitter.com/BombsAndDollars Bombs And Dollars

    This girl sat out when the teams played each other in the regular season, but this is the championship when its all on the line. The other school shouldn’t impose their beliefs on her and her school’s freedom. They have their beliefs, and they take the loss for sticking up for their beliefs. It’s honorable on their part to take what they will for their beliefs. In the end, there shouldn’t be Sharia Law imposed on the other team such that they aren’t allowed to have their girl play if she wants to.

    • teri_b

      I thought the girl was very mature and thoughtful when she sat out the games when it was on their turf. She is very impressive. She could have felt justified to have a bad attitude, but she didn’t.

    • KenInMontana

      Sharia? Really?

      • http://twitter.com/BombsAndDollars Bombs And Dollars

        Sharia Law dictates that women can’t do anything and that anyone who disagrees with a religious belief must be subjugated. You are really that ignorant of Sharia Law? Forcing women to have no role in society and to not be able to play sports is as perfect an example of Sharia Law as any, and if you don’t know that, then you are a problem as society burns.

        • KenInMontana

          I’m hardly ignorant of Sharia, to equate the one example of segregation, in the separating of boys and girls in athletics in Catholic schools, to the barbarism of Sharia is a shining example of ignorance and hardly rates being compared as equivalent to Sharia. That type of extrapolation on your part shows a real lack of knowledge and lends itself to the counter argument that you likely would have no problem with children sharing a locker room and showers. So do you also liken the stricter separation of the sexes in many Protestant Faiths to Sharia as well?

    • KenInMontana

      Sharia? Really?

    • kong1967

      Agreed, and I take it a step further. The rules state that the girl can play, so if the Catholic school is not willing to abide by the rules for the league then maybe they shouldn’t be in the league. This didn’t just hurt their own players. They hurt the integrity of the league and the school who gets a championship they didn’t earn (as far as the single game or series goes, not the previous part of the season).

      Kick their butts out of the league. If you are intolerant of the rules that everyone else follows you shouldn’t be in the league to begin with.

      • KenInMontana

        There used to be Catholic Athletic Leagues with both boy’s and girl’s teams, but due to numerous lawsuits by Liberal Civil Rights groups on sexual and religious discrimination grounds, they melted away. The Catholic School I attended had a girl’s boxing team, coached by a Nun, that competed in CYO matches. Even the Public Schools we played against locally had segregated teams, with boys and girls in separate leagues. This school made a choice based on their beliefs, not intolerance of the rules. I hear/read Conservatives bleating on about not compromising their principles, but you berate and belittle a group that takes that very stand, of not compromising on their principles, my how tolerant. Pot meet kettle.

        • kong1967

          I think the lawsuits were silly. That’s self contained and not effecting anyone else (by separating the two genders). Students don’t have to be put in those schools so it’s not like parents or kids are discriminated against. They have a choice.

          I do understand standing up for principle. I do. I just feel for the kids who I’m sure didn’t give a rat’s arse that they had to play a team with a girl on it.

          I think you all TKO’d me. I’m going to have to go tend to my black eyes now, lol.

          • KenInMontana

            LOL, white gel or blue? ;)

  • teri_b

    Women participating in men’s sports side by side is why we will eventually have women in combat.

    And men will make bad decisions because their first concern will be to protect the woman, rather than follow their protocol.

    • principledpilgrim

      What insight. You are right. This type of cause/effect thinking is not done much anymore.

  • TLaMana

    Stupid Catholics….

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000679899592 John Bohler

      Watch it, there’s a bunch of us on TRS. so be careful what you say about us!

      • Boris_Badenoff

        Why is that? Nancy Pelosi says she is a Catholic, Ted Kennedy claimed the same…

        woopdy do… obviously a highly sought honorable distinction.

        Remember not to color out side the lines now…

        • KenInMontana

          Individuals say a great many things and it does not always make them what they claim or aspire to by association.

          • Boris_Badenoff

            Yes Ken you are correct, just don’t forget that most things in life are a two way street.

            • KenInMontana

              I would remind you of the same.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000679899592 John Bohler

          Those are CINO’s, (Catholic in name only) they don’t give a rats rear end for the Church. There’s a ton of us Traditionalist Catholics,who are overwhelmingly Conservative and chances are that school is Traditionalist if they actually stood up for their beliefs, working for the Ex-communications of those rats. Be glad for those Traditionalist Catholics, if there is any group that is going to work the hardest in getting Obumer out in November its going to be us.

          • teri_b

            I’m right there with you.

            I say a headline today that Nancy Pelosi claims her Catholic faith demands that she support same-sex “marriage”.

            • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000679899592 John Bohler

              i say BISHOPS, WHY HAVEN’T YOU EX-COMMUNICATED HER YET!!! And then i ram my head into the wall repeatedly. Helps with the pain….

              • teri_b

                I think she expected Pope Benedict to roll out the red carpet for her and pose for photo ops. Instead, I think he gave her the business, so to speak. (sorry, I watch Leave it to Beaver re-runs.)

          • KenInMontana

            We refer to them as “Cafeteria Catholics”.

            • http://no-apologies-round2.blogspot.com/ AmericanborninCanada

              We’ve got “buffet Baptists” too ;-)

              • teri_b

                Did you just make that up? Cracked me up.

                • http://no-apologies-round2.blogspot.com/ AmericanborninCanada

                  LOL yeah. I figure it means the same thing, but matches lol ;-)

    • cathmom

      I am so sick of our country catering to all other religions, but when catholics (christians) stick up for their beliefs, we are stupid. Knock it off.

      • http://twitter.com/BombsAndDollars Bombs And Dollars

        You’re saying that women shouldn’t be allowed to play baseball–even though playing baseball doesn’t violate anyone’s rights–just because a religious group that she doesn’t agree with wants to prevent her from exercising her freedom to play? Sounds a lot like Sharia Law. You are one of the people enabling Sharia in America.

        No one prevented the Catholic team from playing. Rather, the Catholic team would have prevented the girl from playing. #StopTheDemocratsWarOnWomen #LetTheGirlPlay

        • toongoon

          WOW, stretched that one a little far didn’t you? cathmom nor any other catholic is trying to have the girl honor murdered or saw her head off. The Sharia law crap really has no place in this discussion.

          • cathmom

            Thanks toongoon!!

          • KenInMontana

            We don’t hunt down and kill those that leave the fold either.

        • cathmom

          I am enabling sharia law?? Are you crazy?? I will not discuss with you any further…you ARE crazy.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000679899592 John Bohler

          That isn’t Sharia law, it wasn’t a top down government “you have to do it this way or else.” If the Church had acted in Sharia Law fashion they would have threaten to sue the other team if they didn’t drop the girl. No, it was a disagreement between schools that ended with the supposed “Sharia Law”(lol) type Catholic School forfeiting the championship to the other school to keep their conscience clear. Freedom of Religion is a wonderful thing isn’t it?

      • JimmyBleep

        Did I miss the part in the Bible which said girls can’t play baseball against boys?

    • KenInMontana

      You have an issue with people willing to stand for their beliefs?

    • http://no-apologies-round2.blogspot.com/ AmericanborninCanada

      I’m not a Catholic, but I applaud them for standing on their principals and values.

    • http://twitter.com/KzPage Florida4Cain

      Yo mama !

  • Arrrggghhh

    It sounds like both sides stood by what they believed in – and the government didn’t get involved. I think that’s more important than having a state baseball champion.

    • KenInMontana

      There you have it.

    • kong1967

      I see your point, but what do the kids think? I’d be willing to bet the majority of them just want to play the championship game and keep politics and religion out of it. Who is being hurt by this? The kids, over an adult “feel good” decision. The adults feel better about standing by their principles and it’s not even them playing the freaking game.

  • kong1967

    I’m a little disgusted with this story. Of course they shouldn’t play without the girl because she’s part of the team, whether or not she’s a star player. For the Catholic school to drop out it’s pretty pathetic. They can still live their lives they way they want, but they shouldn’t think the world should conform to their views or they won’t acknowledge it’s existence. That’s the leftist and Muslim way of thinking.

    I have no tolerance for people with no tolerance. I am anti-gay, I think it’s unnatural, wrong, and flat out disgusting. However, I would never be rude to a gay person (over that issue itself) because they are still human beings. In fact, my neice is bringing a gay friend wtih us to the races tonight and I like the guy. My personal opinions will stay with myself and I will not push them on him as in “I’m not letting a gay man ride in my car”.

    Play ball, people.

    • Boris_Badenoff

      “I have no tolerance for people with no tolerance.”

      ca-ching! a thousand times…

      awesome post kong..

  • Nukeman60

    I’m not sure there was a wrong side here. Mesa Prep abided by the rules, since they had no girl’s baseball team, and were allowed to have a female player. Our Lady of Sorrows abided by their rules of not participating in co-ed sports.

    There is one point, however, that bothers me. Our Lady of Sorrows was not being forced to field a girl player. If the league said they must field at least one female player, then the league would have been wrong. If they don’t participate in co-ed sports, then why did they play in the league at all, knowing that the rules allow for co-ed participation?

    If they had a rule that stipulated no facial hair on their players, and Mesa Prep allowed one of their players to have a moustache, would that warrant a forfeit as well. Just wondering, as it seems strange to me, all things considered.

    • kong1967

      If the Catholic school has a rule that they will not participate in co-ed sports then they should be kicked out of the league. “Co-ed” is pretty harsh because this is an exception to rule, not the rule.

      They not only hurt their own kids they hurt the kids on the other team that were expecting to “earn” the championship. It’s wrong, and if you can’t abide by the rules of the league you are in you should find another league or go play with yourself (hee hee, a little joke).

    • Nomadic100

      The story says this was to have been a game for the “state championship.” Hence, I infer that Mesa and Our Lady of Sorrows were representing different leagues, possibly each with different rules. I am Catholic and believe the Church has no moral problem with such teams playing one another.

      I can think of a hypothetical practical problem, though. The girl reportedly plays second base. Does that create an advantage for the fielder over then runner if the runner from first would normally be inclined to slide into second with spikes up but would not do so in this instance because of the residue of chivalry?

      • Nukeman60

        Well, they did play them twice during the regular season and they’re in the same athletic association, but you’re probably right about separate leagues. The question of whether or not they would forfeit if an opposing team member had facial hair is still out there.

        Also, the residue of chivalry is always absent when a player slides into second base with spikes high, whether it be a male or female second baseman.

        • Nomadic100

          You did some good research, Nukeman! I suppose that the female second basewoman (“second basegirl” or “second baseperson”?) did not play in their two previous encounters this season, but I admit to not having researched the question.

          Your assertion about the “residue of chivalry” being absent is an empirical question. How many female second basepeople or shortstops (a non-specific term in regard to gender) are there who play boys’ high school baseball in the entire country? I suspect you can count them on one finger. I simply raised a hypothetical question. You made an assertion which can be verified – or not. I challenge you to do it!

          As for your question about “facial hair,” my suspicion is that most of the high school players don’t shave and don’t have any. Are you raising the question as to how Our Lady of Sorrows would react to the prospect of playing a post-pubertal radical Islamic team?

          • Nukeman60

            Wow. You missed every one of my points. As to the slide into second base, I merely made a point that it is unethical and against the rules to slide in with spikes high, no matter who does it or to whom it’s done.

            As to the facial hair, I merely asked a question about if one school had a simple rule and another didn’t, would the first school react the same way as they did in this situation (Some High School kids do indeed have facial hair. I did and I’m not radical islamic).

            As to the league, they indeed are in the same league. They were 2 of 7 teams in the same division of the ACAA. Mesa Prep (9-0) won the Eastern division of the 1A division of the ACAA and Our Lady of Sorrows (6-3) won the Western division.

            I cast no blame on either team. As I said before Mesa Prep was within their rights to play a girl and Our Lady of Sorrows had every right to forfeit, if they felt they should. What would have been wrong was to force the girl not to play (they asked her not to play in the two regular season games).

            It’s curious as to why they didn’t play the championship game. As yet, they have not made a full statement, but said there will be one forthcoming. If it was because their beliefs and rules don’t allow for co-ed, that’s one thing, but teaching co-ed and playing against co-ed are two totally different things. They were not being forced to teach this girl anything. If they didn’t play because they don’t believe girls should play sports, then that is just wrong.

            http://www.azcentral.com/sports/preps/articles/2012/05/09/20120509school-balks-over-having-face-girl-state-title-game.html

            We don’t have the full story here and need further information, which I assume will be forthcoming soon.

        • KenInMontana

          I believe that “spiking” is against the rules in most youth baseball leagues as well as most softball leagues, regardless of the gender of the players involved.

          • Nukeman60

            My point exactly.

  • kateorjane

    I don’t really understand under what church doctrine the school felt they couldn’t/shouldn’t play a team with a girl on the roster. Seems a little strange to me.

    That being said I personally have no problem with teams being restricted to males or females. I don’t think a boys team should have to accept girl players or vice versa.

    • kong1967

      In my opinion if they are afraid of allowing their children to even be around things outside their teachings then they are running a cult. Christianity isn’t about brainwashing.

      • teri_b

        My guess is that there are more Evangelical schools with these types of strict guidelines than there are Catholic schools.

        Kong, I think you are being unfair to Catholics. To accuse us of brainwashing is unfounded.

        • KenInMontana

          I’m thinking they don’t have any Mormons to target, so they shift aim at the next convenient target.

          • WordsFailMe

            I think a lot of people are missing the point here.

            Th Catholic School has a principle. They are going to stand up for it if the face of being called, racists, misogynist, bigot, prudes, antiquarians.

            I think its admirable. They never said a secular schools could not mix girls and boys on a team. That;’s not the point The Catholic School says they have a principle and they are going to live by it, come hell or high water. The other team can have the win, they can have the championship. Standing up for what you believe in is INFINITELY more important than a trophy. (Am I the only one who sees this? Am I the only one who isn’t “cool?”

            People are saying that the Catholic School should be more tolerant. I say that’s bull. This word tolerance especially when the communists and liberal and Democrats make sure that “tolerance is a one way street,” has gotten this country into a world of s*** and it must stop.

            • http://no-apologies-round2.blogspot.com/ AmericanborninCanada

              I think there’s a few of us here are uncool Words ;-) And Bob’s your uncle.

              • kong1967

                You’re all still cool in my books. :)

                • http://no-apologies-round2.blogspot.com/ AmericanborninCanada

                  so are you kong ;-)

            • kong1967

              I see your point, but this is just a fun baseball game that meant a lot to the kids on both teams. Shouldn’t there be a point where politics and principle should take a back seat? I’m sure the kids didn’t have a coronary that there was a girl on the team so I think the adults should have stayed out of it and let them play.

              • WordsFailMe

                Kong I agree. But there is nothing fun and nothing innocent about standing your ground on principle. Sometimes taking a stand is a lot more painful than just “letting this one pass.”

                But that’s the point. The progressives, communists, liberals and the failed Democrats exploit that weakness in conservatives. Our patience our, desire for peace, our willingness, our innate sense of justice and fairness is the very weapon they use to cut away at out Constitution and close the door ever so slightly, inch at a time, on our liberty.

                You’ve just got to see this weakness operating in your own personality and judgement. And when you see it , it’ll hurt. I know, because it was painful for me to see in myself.

                A weak person is not necessarily a good person.

                Let’s say the case was different and a Catholic girls team with a boy at second base went to play a public school team of all girls. Do you think the public school team would have said, “They’re Catholics and they allow a boy on the girl’s team but we will overlook that.” Let’s say building the keystone will cut gas prices in half over 5 years, do you expect the liberals to agree to it?

                THE KIND OF TOLERANCE THE LEFT IS DEMANDING FROM CONSERVATIVES IS A ONE WAY STREET. It’s a lie the left twists and foists on us to force us to live up to our Christian ideals while they have no ideals, no conservative compromises to bargain with.

                We are fools when we yield on any point, no matter how minor, and we aid in our own destruction. THE CARDINAL SIN FOR CONSERVATIVES IS TO YIELD WHEN THE ISSUE IS FAIRNESS. There is no fairness guarantee in any natural law or constitution.

                Regarding the kids, what better lesson could there have been other than seeing someone who stood on principle. someone who would not back down, someone who would face the criticism and give up the glory, someone who was willing to put it all on the line to say:

                YOUR IDEA OF FAIRNESS CLASHES WITH MY IDEA OF PRINCIPLE

                At some point your values are going to bump smack into those of others. I go back to the Declaration where it says the pursuit of happiness. That pursuit is the path that each person takes. The girl may pursue her happiness in any form she likes. But no matter where she goes, or where any of us go, there are consequence. It is those consequences that reveal character, not trophies, not triumph, not defeating a tradition.

                You do not have to win a game to be a winner.

                • Nukeman60

                  Let’s say the case was different and a Catholic girls team with a boy at second base went to play a public school team of all girls. Do you think the public school team would have said, “They’re Catholics and they allow a boy on the girl’s team but we will overlook that.”‘ – WFM

                  That situation would depend completely on the rules of the athletic association. If the assoc. allowed it in the rules, then the public school would have no right to complain, but they would have the right to forfeit, much like Our Lady of Sorrows did. If the assoc. did not allow it, then the public school would have a ligitimate complaint.

                  I commend Our Lady of Sorrows for standing by what they believe and forfeiting, rather than asking the girl to step down. But I still feel we do not have the full reason why they felt that way, yet. They stated that they don’t teach boys and girls together, especially in sports, but playing this game doesn’t necessarily force them to do that. I would like to be assured that they didn’t do it because they don’t believe girls should play sports. It would clarify a lot.

                • teri_b

                  I doubt that they believe girls shouldn’t play sports, but what if they did? This is a private school chosen by the parents, who are trying to raise their kids with a certain value system. I don’t want parents to have to answer to anybody if they want to raise their kids with more traditional values than the majority of the country.

                  It is still a free country, right?

                • Nukeman60

                  Yeah, I’ve got no problem with what they did. I’m just saying that I, for one, wouldn’t agree with someone who thought girls shouldn’t compete in sports, that’s all.

                • teri_b

                  Yeah, I agree.

                  My husband and I were just talking about how much one of our sons hated it when he ended up on a junior high school team with girls on it. He would come home and grumble about it. On the day of the last game, the parents of all the girls sought us out to tell us how polite and nice our son was to their daughters. Knowing how he really felt, I was a proud mom that day.

                  I think that boys need time to fraternize with just other boys. I think it is part of the process of learning how to become men. There are plenty of opportunities to interact with women. I actually think our men today are becoming feminized.

                • kong1967

                  I would have a problem if a boy was on a girls team just for the simple fact of muscle and athletic advantage. .

                  I understand your slippery slope argument, and that is exactly what the left uses. But I don’t view this situation as political at all. The rules were made by a sports association.

                  Somewhere along the line they need to allow the kids to be kids and to develop their own views.

        • kong1967

          You got me and you’re right. I give you my most sincere apology. I sit on one knee begging for forgiveness, lol. I retract my statement, it was wrong.

          • teri_b

            Apology accepted. Thanks.

    • MikhailKennedy

      Thank you for saying that you have no problem with restricting teams to male or female. I agree. If only for the fact that at some time a girl (or boy) will be cut from the team for no other reason than talent and then they will cry sexism and be allowed to play and take the place of a more talented player.
      Kind of like affirmative action hiring.
      It will happen.

  • http://twitter.com/KzPage Florida4Cain

    There has to be more to the story than this.

  • http://twitter.com/KzPage Florida4Cain

    Why is it called a boys team if girls play on it? The should make it a girls team with boys who play on it, LOL or does it matter? I bet it does to all the boys on the team.

    Why do they have boys and girl teams ? Because there is a distinction , thats why.

    Its the schools call not to play the team , and it seems the girl was ok with it.

    • kong1967

      The girl was on the team because there wasn’t a girl’s softball team. Rules state she can play on the boy’s team only in that circumstance.

      • http://twitter.com/KzPage Florida4Cain

        My point was , they themselves divide them by sex.

        So is it really a “boys” team?
        bottom line its the schools call.
        I dont have a problem with it but thats how they run their, catholic school all boys baseball team.

        The other team is not really an all boys team. I understand why they dont have an all boys team, because they want to let a (wonderful) young lady play on their team. But its no longer an all boys team.

        thats how I see it anyway.

        • kong1967

          Ugh. I can see why they do it and I can see why people don’t like it. No matter what they do some kids will be left out or others will be angered. You are right that it’s no longer a boys team.

    • RefudiateObama2012

      My youngest son played basketball and soccer at a small Catholic school. He had female teammates in both because they barely had enough boys to fill a starting team. The bball team wasn’t very good, but it wasn’t because of the girls. The soccer team was one of the best in the region and both female members were solid contributors.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_IDAKYMXLZIRLMLGEZJXV3AOO7E Vorlath

    Dumb Catholic School is dumb.

    • KenInMontana

      Bigotry is what is actually dumb.

      • Boris_Badenoff

        Funny you should mention that word in this thread. and don’t jump to conclusions Ken because I am not in the least insinuating that of you as I have read many of your post and do not think that about you in the least.

        big·ot·ry

        noun,
        1. stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one’s own.

        Like I mentioned earlier , life is a two way street and No one, no matter how highly they hold them self in their own eye, is always in the right or in possession of the truth all the time.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_IDAKYMXLZIRLMLGEZJXV3AOO7E Vorlath

        Bigotry how? Not playing because there’s a girl on the other team? What is this? Kindergarten?

        • KenInMontana

          Blanket, whole cloth, uninformed condemnation of Catholics, for nothing more than a particular Order of Catholics, who decided to make a stand on their beliefs, for starters. This school taking a stand on their beliefs, is no different at all from you taking a stand for your own, is it? You then follow up your first post (a fine example of Kindergarten mind set in and of it self) denigrating their stand for their beliefs and practices as childish. Do I need to go on?

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000679899592 John Bohler
  • kateorjane

    Apparently educational separation of the sexes is a key tenet of the Society of St. Pius X, a separatist branch of the Catholic Church of which Our Lady of Sorrows is a part. It appears their action is in line with their doctrine and something they are entitled to do under the guise of freedom of religion. No one forced any of the students to attend that school so they shouldn’t be suprised when the rules are enforced.

  • Stoneyjack

    Just wondering…does she change out in the boys’ locker room? Pitch & catch to warm up?

    • Boris_Badenoff

      That’s a pretty low life comment if I don’t say so myself..

      John liked it, Imagine that, … humm..

  • http://alsbach-art.com/ Floyd Alsbach

    OK so I’ve been Catholic for 54 years, Catholic grade school high school etc. and this idea, attitude, policy is totally new to me.

  • http://alsbach-art.com/ Floyd Alsbach

    Yeah, the second best educated religious people in the Western world (after the Jewish people) can at times be stupid. Catholic for 54 years , and never heard of this silly policy before. It’s baseball, not football, not boxing, not even wrestling (though I’ve taught some female wrestlers that could break your arm in 15 seconds and give you a pretty smile all the while.)

    • Boris_Badenoff

      Well obviously Floyd you did not go to the correct Catholic School as some here did. Neither did I and quite frankly I am very glad I did not.

      • KenInMontana

        This deals with different Orders within the Catholic Church, and is endemic of the split in the Church over Vatican II. The particular order involved in this is the Society of Saint Pius X (as mentioned by ‘kateorjane’ above), an Order that has fractured itself a time or three. It’s views and practices have been declared non-canonical by Pope Benedict XVI.

        Pope John Paul II actually excommunicated several Bishops over this Order’s founder ignoring Papal orders to the contrary and consecrating several Bishops. Most non-Catholics do not understand or bother to understand that the Catholic Church is as fractured with factions as the Protestant Church.

        One other item in all this discussion on this that I would add, is that even the Public Schools I attended had segregated sports programs. The first time I encountered Coed sports in school was in my Junior year of High School, in an elective PE course in Fencing. All the elective courses for PE (open only to Juniors and Seniors) were Coed. The required basic PE classes were segregated.

        • teri_b

          Ken, do you know for a fact that this is a SSPX school? If so, that would explain why the boys that had to forfeit don’t seem to be complaining. I think a lot of people here think that the school administrators overreached, but I don’t see any evidence that the parents or students disagreed.

          btw, I also went to both Catholic and public schools. Not only did we have gym class every day (which schools don’t do now), but in my case it was always segregated.

          • KenInMontana
            • teri_b

              Thanks for the link. I know a lot of SSPX people. At the moment, it seems that some of them are ready for reunification with Rome. It sounds like they are on the verge of a schism within the SSPX. How is that for irony?

              • KenInMontana

                From what I understand about the history of the SSPX, this wouldn’t be the first or even fourth time that they’ve gone through this.

  • WordsFailMe

    Finally, someone, this time a respected institution of our free society, stand up for itsa beliefs.

    I don’t judge what the Catholic School believes in but by the living GOD that made me, I will defend to the death their right to believe it.

    I admire these Catholics with backbone!!!

    No quarter to these one worlders, these “everybody is the samer’s,” these liberals and commie perverts who assault everything we believe in every moment and like cockroaches that they are, they only need a tiny hole to get in and contaminate a whole nation.

    It is a trick commie’s use and it’s that one we consevatives have been fooled by for DECADES!

    My values are my values and I will need yeild one inch to any man!

    IT STOPS NOW!

  • WordsFailMe

    Finally, someone, this time a respected institution of our free society, stand up for itsa beliefs.

    I don’t judge what the Catholic School believes in but by the living GOD that made me, I will defend to the death their right to believe it.

    I admire these Catholics with backbone!!!

    No quarter to these one worlders, these “everybody is the samer’s,” these liberals and commie perverts who assault everything we believe in every moment and like cockroaches that they are, they only need a tiny hole to get in and contaminate a whole nation.

    It is a trick commie’s use and it’s that one we consevatives have been fooled by for DECADES!

    My values are my values and I will need yeild one inch to any man!

    IT STOPS NOW!

  • MaxineCA

    I know I’m getting in late on this, but after reading the comments, I must say there is a greater lesson to be learned from this.

    Is it better to give up your principles for a chance to get a trophy? I think students from both teams can learn a life lesson on this one.

    • teri_b

      I think that both teams handled it just fine. Seems like the media was the problem here.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/OOKK3KBK7M2DX5OKOV7ODZ3QTA Jay

    Right or wrong, the school stood for their principles instead of folding to political correctness. I think this is to be admired in today’s society.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OQI5D66OXO7X2FE4NVCZC7BAMA Joe

    The REAL POINT here is that

    If the “BOYS” team lost to a team with a “GIRL” on it

    they would be embarrassed – period –

    This has NOTHING TO DO with CATHOLICS

    “The team’s coach said that girl helped the team go undefeated so they weren’t about to play in a championship game without her.”

    • Nukeman60

      Joe, they already lost to Mesa Prep twice in the regular season, after asking the girl to sit out.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OQI5D66OXO7X2FE4NVCZC7BAMA Joe

        I didn’t know that – BUT

        Then the “boy’s” team is not good and they don’t want a third loss

        The Catholic thing and other reasons – I believe are not relevant –

        Be beaten by a girl in a third loss would be the icing on the cake

        My suggestion is to reccruit a couple of really good players if it

        means that much to them

        • KenInMontana

          A forfeit is counted a loss by the forfeiting team, a fact that I’m sure they are aware of. However, apparently they were “good enough” to make it to the state championships. Their beliefs are relevant in this decision, not that I personally agree with them, but they are the beliefs of this particular Order of Catholicism.

    • teri_b

      I wouldn’t take that quote too seriously. They were rallying around their player. All the players “helped” the team. It doesn’t mean she was the reason they won. She may have been, but you can’t glean that from that quote.

  • ApplePie101

    Oh, come on, what are they afraid of? Being beaten by a girl?

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OQI5D66OXO7X2FE4NVCZC7BAMA Joe

      Absolutely!

    • teri_b

      You are kidding, right?

      • ApplePie101

        They’re a private institution, and have a right to make that decision for themselves, but I think it’s an absurd rule for non-contact sports.

        • teri_b

          It was a general policy rule for all sports and physical education. If they start weighing each individual case, that would open Pandora’s Box. You would then see every parent and student wanting their opinion heard. So far, there is no evidence of discord amongst the team that forfeited.

          I get your point about non-contact vs. contact, but with all the sliding and tagging that happens, it isn’t trouble-free.

          • Conservative_Hippie

            I agree that there doesn’t seem to be any discord between the two schools, which is a wonderful testament for both of them and their association of schools. I guess what bugs me is that the players were cheated out of the championship game, which -speaking as HS coach myself – is a shame.

        • Conservative_Hippie

          It was my understanding that Our Lady of Sorrows was the one that did not honor the rules of the Association, I guess for religious purposes. The rules supported Mesa and the girl.

  • kateorjane

    Is there some reason some of you jump to the “they’re afraid to lose to a girl” routine vice just accepting that whether you agree with it or not their religious doctrine disapproves of boys & girls mixing in educational things and for some reason they feel sports qualifies as such? Is it hard for some of you just to accept that different religious denominations have different rules?

  • Jude O’Connor

    I don’t know all the facts here and the line is going to be different for many of us as to which side I stand on. Many of the posts have a valid reason and many use it to go on to a different situation to prove their point. Good posts on both sides.

    • Conservative_Hippie

      I agree Jude!

  • barney59

    Just my two cents, but ‘what if’ the headline said that the Catholic School is a PRIVATE ALL BOYS academy and not just ‘Catholic School’.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_IJYM277N7VJNF772U6DUVQKHAE TIMERUNNER

    great show for manhood! let the boys be men let the girls be ladies when you can find the difference.

    Tea Party PAtriot
    We already have to many girlyboys and boylygirls.

  • GiantM

    Another “Diversity” / “Tolerance” story that proves to be a product of Liberalism gone bad. These people will never learn common sense. Why?

    It’s always about feelings and not pragmatism. Just let the girls play with the girls and vice versa for crying out loud!

  • MiketheMarine

    I wonder how Jesus and Mary Magdelene would feel about this, Catholics.

    • KenInMontana

      Feel about what precisely? Care to expound a bit more?

  • Conservative_Hippie

    After reading the comments, I’ve felt obligated to express my opinion. I side on the side of Mesa and the young girl for the reasons stated below…

    1. The school did not offer a “corresponding sport” which meant that Paige could not play softball which was her first choice. It was her right and under charter rules her priviledge to try out for the baseball team.

    2. She beat out other boys for the starting second baseman’s position, so her skills are not at question.

    3. If the championship game were played on Our Lady of Sorrows’ field she would have not played to honor their position on mixed sports. The championship game was played on a neutral field so she felt she had the right to play…and so did Mesa.

    4. She had the support of her school and her team. This was NOT a decision made by a spoiled child trying to “make a statement” about gender biases in school sports

    Final comments: If I understand the charter rules correctly this could only have been done if there were not a corresponding girls sport like baseball/softball, boys and girls soccer, boys and girls basketball, etc – not a sport like football. Which does in fact make it a gender discrimination issue

    Ken brought up women in the military and combat specifically. On this I agree with Ken, but this is not the military we are talking about – it’s academic sports. But if you wanted to use the miltary analogy I would liken this not to sending women into battle on foreign lands, but defending your country from foreign invasion. And in that case it would be appropriate for women to fight.

    I yield the floor…

    • kateorjane

      What is their side? They had the team of players they chose to have. They didn’t have to make her sit down. Mesa suffered no harm and apparently observing their religious beliefs was important enough to Our Lady of Sorrows that they forfeited.

      • Conservative_Hippie

        I have no beef with Our Lady of Sorrows, they can forfeit if they want. It was my opinion that Mesa did the right thing also. Maybe both schools can learn from this incident, I don’t know.

    • KenInMontana

      First of all no one here has condemned Mesa Prep for playing a girl on their team, Mesa was following the association rules, and no one is disputing that, likewise no one (those defending the Catholic school’s stand) is stating that the young lady should not play or be barred. However, Our Lady of Sorrows (a private school run by a minority Sect of Catholicism) that practices what they believe, is being condemned, ridiculed and belittled for living by their beliefs. The Private school forfeited the game on the grounds of their beliefs, without complaint, blame, threats of suit or excuses. When these two teams met in the regular season, this young lady of her own decision benched herself. She showed a level of maturity and understanding far beyond her years and beyond that of many on this board, by her actions. She did not have to do it, she chose to. She could have taken the field at those games and she would have been right to do so, had she done so I would have supported her right to take that action. At the same time this private school is portrayed by many here as taking an action akin to a tantrum for standing on the principals of their beliefs (as is their right), many on the “right” have correctly pointed out the left’s tactic of demeaning hyperbole and hypocrisy, only to turn those same tactics on a group that takes a stand on their beliefs regardless of the consequences of that stand, in this case forfeiting the championship game. I could have sworn that Conservatives were all about standing firmly for the Rights and Freedoms expressed in our Constitution, but apparently, I was mistaken in that belief.
      As to my use of the military analogy, that was in response to the poster that raised the issue in their post.

      • Conservative_Hippie

        Maybe I missed something Ken, but it was my impression from the video that the ones being condemned were the Mesa baseball team, since they were the “extreme” position in their Association. I am not in any way condemning Our Lady of Sorrows. What I am trying to convey is my support for the girls right to play baseball. If the association didn’t want her to play they shouldn’t have put the “corresponding sports” clause in their rules. BTW, if the association has the corresponding sports rule and Our Lady of Sorrows is in the Association then why are we praising the school for not honoring their own charter rules?! Again, maybe I’m missing something – I speak as a fool.

        • KenInMontana

          Both schools followed the rules, Mesa prep by allowing the young lady to play, Our Lady of Sorrows by forfeiting the game. The Catholic school while having an objection to playing a coed team, forfeited acknowledging and accepting the association’s rule, recognizing the young lady had every right to play and not demanding she be removed. So the rules were respected by both teams. I suspect that the Catholic school has a corresponding girls team per the rules. The “bone of contention” (for myself and some others) was the bashing of the Catholic school and generally Catholics, for standing on their beliefs even though those beliefs possibly (Mesa had already beaten them twice) costing themselves the championship.