By The Right Scoop


This is probably the closest thing we’ll get to hear from Sarah Palin this soon on this weekend’s unfortunate events. Glenn Beck reads part of an email from Sarah Palin to him in light of the massive smear job the Left is perpetrating against her. Beck reads his part first and then part of her response. Here is how she replied to him (according to Beck):

I hate violence. I hate war. Our children will not have peace if politicos just capitalize on this to succeed in portraying anyone as inciting terror and violence. Thanks for all you do to send the message of truth and love and God as the answer. -Sarah

Perhaps it’s just the way Beck read her words, but they resonate with me. If anything can be said to be inciting violence then where do we draw the line? Maybe you just thought about inciting violence – will that be a crime next? It seems to me that is where the Left is headed.

This weekend made me very sad for our country that so many would willingly try and destroy a political foe by tying her to the railroad tracks of terror and violence. If anything it tells me that there are way too many useful idiots in America and that they have the MSM on their side.

This nation, more now than perhaps ever, needs to intimately know the tranformative power of God. That’s the only thing that can really save us.

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  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tim-Jordan/1539006656 Tim Jordan

    When Sarah Palin was promoting he “cross-hair map,” she tweeted, DON’T RETREAT – INSTEAD RELOAD. When the AZ gunman was tackled, he was not RETREATING, he was RELOADING.

    • Anonymous

      and he was a leftie!

  • Anonymous

    This event will haunt Sarah Palin for the rest of her political career.

    Gabrielle Giffords called out Sarah Palin by name when the target map was released last March. If the Congresswoman survives, all it will take is one TV commercial showing the map and her own comments from March and Sarah Palin’s bid for the White House will be stopped.

    Sarah Palin has had two years to show us another side of herself. All she has done is to reinforce herself as a Second Amendment lover (which I am as well).

    And I don’t expect Sarah Palin’s public relation skills to save her. I do expect her to get snarky with the lame stream media, the sheriff or Democrat members of congress.

    • Libssuck

      Only an idoit will associate Sarah to this event. You clearly are a humongous idiot.

    • Libssuck

      Only an idoit will associate Sarah to this event. You clearly are a humongous idiot.

      • Gladmueth

        Why the name calling? How is that helping matters here? Is what just happened lost on you? Do you think you have no part in the tone here?

        • Tammy

          What are you, the speech police? You must be a leftie. That’s EXACTLY what they want.

          • Damndamster

            Lefty/ Righty, That is what is wrong. People just continue the wrong tone

        • http://www.okiepatriot.blogspot.com/ Greywolfe

          The tone be damned. A crazy leftist was upset with her for his own reasons. He killed a lot of innocent people and all you moonbats can do is point fingers. The finger should point to the leftwing deuche bag that pulled the trigger. Personally, I’m just upset that he didn’t get his own body bag.

          No one on either side of the political spectrum is to blame for this atrocity. The blame lies only with the perp.

          • las

            I would love nothing better than to agree with you. You are speaking the absolute truth, but unfortunately there is a virulently wicked force out there and it is called the Democrat Progressive Left. They are not interested in truth… otherwise they would immediately read “targeting” for what it is… a political term. Heck the word “campaign” is a military term and is used all the times in, surprise, surprise… political campaigns.

            Now then… how will these Democrat Party forces explain away their own map targeting conservative states in 2004. With bulls eyes and all.

            http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=253055&kaid=127&subid=171

            This comes from the Democratic Leadership Committee website from 2004 during the Bush years. Facts… them’s uncomfortable thangs. Facts seldom fit the MSM narrative anyway.

            All I can conclude is that the Republicans and conservatives in this country better start pushing back and pushing back hard against this execrable left-wing narrative. Because if they don’t there will be no digging out from under it.

            • Damndamster

              Isn’t that what the Republicans have been doing—pushing back by targeting Democrats?? Two wrongs does not make a right. Perhaps we all should tone it down.

            • Jamesetimmer

              Yeah, and now we have all of those Republican congresspeople who were shot by arrows!

              • Anonymous

                I thought the “bull’s eye” targets looked like lawn dart targets.

            • Anonymous

              Since that “virulently wicked force out there and it is called the Democrat Progressive Left” does it, that means the good, kind, and righteous right wing should be the the better party and not do the same. no?

              • las

                It would be foolish to think Republicans are lily white. But what we are talking about here is one of “world view”. Progressive/left vs. a conservative understanding of the World. The former is based on the need to force man, using coercion, into the image the left-wing elites prescribe using statism, and identity politics conforming to the norms of Cultural Marxism. It’s nanny statism creating protected victim groups and using them for political purposes.

                You obviously have no idea that the Democrat party of today is not the Democrat party of forty, even twenty years ago. It’s gone… it no longer exists for all sorts of left-wing/progressive reasons. It’s not even a shadow of its former self. John F. Kennedy would be a “right-wing extremist” to you people now.

                Look up Soros and his “shadow” party or Huffington and her “shadow” conventions. Look at the Progressive caucus and examine all the left-wing radicals surrounding this President and his community organizing connections with the Mid West Academy. Ayers, Woods foundation, Annenberg Challenge, Rashid Khalidi… on and on going way back. Heck even dear leader’s first Lady is in on the act when she was a board member at the U of Chicago Med Center in a patient dumping scheme. Why does she hate Black people so?

                So yes… when a party is “targeted” by radicals and leftists… I’d call that evil. But then again, maybe I just have higher standards.

            • Kerynlovesya

              That’s a poor comparison. First of all, those aren’t crosshairs, they’re targets, the kind you shoot arrows at. Or the kind that Target uses as its logo. And the imagine is called “Targeting Strategy,” so the targets are thematic with the title of the map.

              Second, and more to the point, they’re not targeting people. They’re targeting states. That’s a map that’s colored according to the 2004 presidential election results. It’s discussing ways Democrats can make inroads in those states leading up to the next election. They’re not targetting specific republicans. They hardly even name any Republicans. It’s an entirely inward-looking article and a graphic that mirrors that.

              Palin’s symbols weren’t targets, as her spokesman disingenuously called them. They were crosshairs, which an avid hunter like Palin should be well aware of. And they weren’t targeting states. They were targeting specific congresspeople, with the ones who were already out colored red. You can agree or disagree with Palin’s graphic, but it’s completely misleading to compare it to this one.

              • Jimbob

                No, they weren’t crosshairs they were surveyer symbols. Damn you people need an education.

                http://theblogczar.wordpress.com/2011/01/10/cross-hairs-targets-and-surveyor-symbols/

              • Jimbob

                No, they weren’t crosshairs they were surveyer symbols. Damn you people need an education.

                http://theblogczar.wordpress.com/2011/01/10/cross-hairs-targets-and-surveyor-symbols/

              • Jimbob

                No, they weren’t crosshairs they were surveyer symbols. Damn you people need an education.

                http://theblogczar.wordpress.com/2011/01/10/cross-hairs-targets-and-surveyor-symbols/

                • OrthodoxAtheist

                  Well done… I didn’t think anyone seriously fell for the bs “surveyor symbol” but you proved me wrong. LOL I’d say the same if I did something dumb and then get heat about it from several thousand people, like Palin. What do you think Palin is more known for and associated with, gun rights, or cartographic surveys? Maybe I should draw a p3nis on Palin’s forehead and post 1,000 copies around town, and when challenged I would say no, its not a p3nis, it is two billiard balls and cue because I am challenging Palin to a game of billiards. At least I can sleep tonight knowing you would believe me.

                • Anonymous

                  Yes, in season two of Sarah Palin’s new TV show they were going to feature her interests in trigonometric surveying techniques!

                • SJ

                  Beginning to think that the GOP has been hijacked by opportunist and plainly stated liars. With God on your side, why would you attempt to change a fact? Palin takes pride in gun ownership, and all of it’s paraphernalia, and as a proud gun owner, even Palin hasn’t told the lie that you’re telling. Your quick reflex to change the truth, shows that you think her rhetoric dangerous. Why didn’t you just say it was the shooter’s fault period? Reflection is surly in order.

                • T Miller

                  You people are so funny always using God as a hiding place, you all know that Palin word triggered this guy, People need to be held responsible for their action, and she is one of them. She need to stop using God as to hide behind.

                • KeninMontana

                  You need to brush up on your grammar, at least if you wish to be taken seriously in any conversation. The individual that carried out this attack was nothing more than a seriously deranged individual, one that the Pima County Sheriff’s office had previously investigated for his threats and behaviors and dismissed as a non-threat by the same Sheriff who is now attempting to make this tragedy into political capital. You need to brush up on the facts as they are known instead of joining in with the unfounded finger-pointing blame game mentality of the unthinking herd you’ve chosen to run with.

              • Jimbob

                No, they weren’t crosshairs they were surveyer symbols. Damn you people need an education.

                http://theblogczar.wordpress.com/2011/01/10/cross-hairs-targets-and-surveyor-symbols/

              • las

                You libs stretch way too far. A rose by any other name is…? And what is the object of your – how shall I say it in your terms – “targeting”: A bulls eye. Yes… it is comparable… sorry.

                As I would never make the claim – which you obviously have done – to take the Dems map and insinuate a nefarious violent purpose against a Republican “district” – as you so blithely call it – neither should you make the claim that a Republican doing the same thing is violent. Ridiculous assumptions beget ridiculous claims. It’s all political language using military imagery. Give your head a shake. Even children are capable of seeing the difference.

                But your response highlights your political contamination that simple concepts become “targets” (if I am allowed to use that word) because libs always need to create a straw man while Conservatives are condemned to fight them.

                Seriously there Keryn… sophistry is not your strong suite.

                • Anonymous

                  Gun scope target sight vs. Lawn Dart target.

                • Maxie Bulloch

                  Las,

                  You are right to say “even children are capable of seeing the difference.” But we are not talking about children here, rather we are talking aboutg mental deranged adults who see the world through a differeng set of eyes.

              • neko

                So let me see if I understand your logic, Kerynlovesya:

                When a Democrat publishes a map of the United States with tagets on various states, they are targeting states, not the people who run those states.

                However, when a Republican publishes a map of the United States with tagets on various states, they are actually targeting individual people.

                • Frank37

                  Hey idiot…What country are you living in?

                • Frank37

                  Hey idiot…What country are you living in?

            • Glennkitty

              I hope everyone will pull up the link from the Democratic leadership in 2004 and compare it with the Rep. target list in 2010. There is no comparison.

          • James

            HE WASN’T A LEFTIST JUST BECAUSE THEY FOUND THE COMMUNIST MANIFESTO AMONG HIS MANY READINGS…. It has come out today that one he was a registered Republican..that two the Tea party put out a memo within its ranks to urge members to call him a leftist and that three he was actually more associated with the white-supremacist movements than anything else…and lastly a proclaimed fan of Sarah Palin…so ya..you miss TeaBagger…Guess it’s time to reload….here’s a cite by the souther poverty law center about some of his possible ties…
            http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2011/01/09/who-is-jared-lee-loughner/

            • Anonymous

              It has come out today that one he was a registered Republican.

              Try again. The voter registration was faked.

              The forgers did not even spell Tuscon correctly.

              Dead giveaway, wouldn’t you say?

              (Plus the county clerk states the shooter was a registered independent)

              • Qen23

                “Tucson” is spelled “TuCSon”, btw.

            • Anonymous

              It also just came out that the supposed “registered republican” information was faked, no one can get into government databases to check registration in Arizona without a Drivers License or voter ID number… so go shove it out your blow hole. Wait was that too much “violent rhetoric” for you? Too bad.

              Here’s the link to the Jawa Report on the faked information: http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/205783.php

            • Anonymous

              It also just came out that the supposed “registered republican” information was faked, no one can get into government databases to check registration in Arizona without a Drivers License or voter ID number… so go shove it out your blow hole. Wait was that too much “violent rhetoric” for you? Too bad.

              Here’s the link to the Jawa Report on the faked information: http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/205783.php

            • las

              Southern Poverty Law Center… you mean “that” SPLC funded by George Soros. Keep drinkin’ that progressive fruity flavored colored water. SPLC is absolutely the last place to get facts. In that case you had better go back getting your facts from the MSM… they have less sugar in their fruity water.

              Loughner is a leftist because he was identified so by his friends. An extreme leftist at that.

              Loughner’s leftwing high school friend, Caitie Parker, remembers him as a “political radical”: “He was left wing,” she wrote; “As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal.” http://www.myspace.com/caitieparker

          • Anonymous

            THis “leftist” sites Ayn Rand’s as some of his favorite books. Maybe the only “…ist” he is at all is a homicidal conspiricist?

            • las

              Unstable young college kids gravitate to left-wing causes like flies to… and like most leftist wannabee bohemians, they have “the book” on their shelves, at least, and they will make a point of telling you they have “the book” on their shelves. Have they read “the book”… meh… not so.

              Mind you… I had Obama’s Dreams from My Father on my shelf for a long time too. I finally held my nose and read that horrid (however well written, probably by Ayers) screed. All I could conclude is that had a white person said about Blacks what Obama said about Whites in his book, the “R” word would be flying.

              • timmer

                let’s just sit back and consider how ridiculous this comment is…

                • las

                  Make your argument then James. Shall I get you some quotes from Obama’s book and replace Black people for White? Then we will see what sounds racist.

          • Anonymous

            THis “leftist” sites Ayn Rand’s as some of his favorite books. Maybe the only “…ist” he is at all is a homicidal conspiricist?

          • SJ

            Hey Greywolfe, the shooter was not a leftist, even FoxNews changed their reporting to clarify that fact. America is losing it’s greatness, because too many would rather fight for Parties instead of fighting for Americans. How many Conservatives lost jobs and houses under the GOP? Looks like these political parties have you in their crosshairs. Blindly following any political party like a sports team is dumb at best.

            • http://www.okiepatriot.blogspot.com/ Greywolfe

              First, is he crazy? Yeah, he was. But even his class mates described him as a pot smoking leftist. And for the record, Hitler was mad as a hatter, but he was still a nationalist socialist. The two things aren’t mutually exclusive. He put on his facebook page that his favorite reads included Mein Kampf and the writings of Marx. Hmmm. Sounds leftist to me.

              Also, don’t confuse ideology with party. I’m not a member of the Republican Party. Or any party. I am a social and economic conservative. I fight whoever on whichever side of the isle happens to be wrong.

              As for Foxnews’ alleged backtracking, I wouldn’t know. Haven’t watched anything from them on it. I have read some of the tweets from his school mates both college and high school. They paint a picture of a politically radical, mentally disturbed man.

              • SJ

                In your reading Greywolfe you must have also found that the shooter also indulged in anti-government groups. So I really don’t understand your point of trying to label this guy as a leftist. What is so wrong with you, so say that you don’t back a Party yet you spout GOP rhetoric. You sound quite confused. Your ideology comes across week. Tell me, who in office do you admire?

                • http://www.okiepatriot.blogspot.com/ Greywolfe

                  anti-government rants are not the purview of the right. For example I’ll refer you to the anarchist movement (which is pure nihilistic left) and for a historical perspective, the French revolutionaries who turned their backs on their entire culture (sociatal progressives = leftist). The reason many of our Founders wouldn’t support the French Revolution was because it was antithetical to the purpose of our own. Which was to govern ourselves as we had done before. It was progressivism where our Founders wanted to Conserve our way of life and governance.

                  Your arguements are either poorly thought out, or woefully uneducated. Research your facts, then debate with me. Otherwise troll someone else.

                  The facts are thus: From his own writings on Facebook he was a fan of hitler and Marx. His school mates refered to him as a loner and a pot smoking political radical.

                  Spin it how you want, he is what he is. And I spew my own “rhetoric”. Self education is a grand thing. Try it rather than pushing your party line, comrade

                  The fact that many on the right don’t TRUST the government isn’t the same as being against government entirely.

                • http://www.okiepatriot.blogspot.com/ Greywolfe

                  Oh, and one last thing. If you are going to label my rhetoric as weak, at least learn how to put together a cogent sentence with some attention to your spelling. It makes you come across rather “week”. Good grief.

        • http://www.okiepatriot.blogspot.com/ Greywolfe

          The tone be damned. A crazy leftist was upset with her for his own reasons. He killed a lot of innocent people and all you moonbats can do is point fingers. The finger should point to the leftwing deuche bag that pulled the trigger. Personally, I’m just upset that he didn’t get his own body bag.

          No one on either side of the political spectrum is to blame for this atrocity. The blame lies only with the perp.

      • LeaveToTheLeftToSpin

        Yes, only an idiot will associate the crazy to Sarah Palin. The left/democrat and the media think that the country is too stupid to see the difference.

        Also, does anyone remember: 1) “We have to fight our enemies” Mr. Obama, 2) “We will take to the streets there will be violance”….Sharpton, the Mexican representative that keeps pushing for Illegals and their children to get legal status in order to in crease their voting block.

        Once again the Left/democrats are using this even to to totally twist and spin against the American people.

        • Noneya

          The language used by the majority of the people associating themselves with the ‘right’ is completely inflammatory and has little to no regard or respect to the intended audience.
          It is meant to be an emotional plea to embrace insanity and ignore reason to further an agenda that would otherwise be against their better interests. The constant bombardment of this message further isolates the believer from reason and propagates the message. This is the message that Sarah Palin uses to effectively mobilize the base. Unfortunately it has divided the nation without much reliance on truth. And it is poison to the illiterate that buys into the notions of isolation and violence, guns and religion, us and them.

          • http://atheismexposed.tripod.com/ True Freethinker

            Everything you said can eaily describe the typical Leftist, brainwashed by Hollywood, MTV, NY Times, HuffPo, Daily Kos, MSNBC, etc. The constant bombardment of this message sucks the vulnerable into a feedback loop where truth is banished and those outside the spell, “the other” are demonized.

            guns and religion? Turns out the gunman is an atheist fundamentalist with a hatred of God and religion. This was in fact an anti-religious hate crime by an atheist who targeted Jews and both Catholic and Evangelical Christians.

            Atheists and guns are a dangerous mix!

          • http://atheismexposed.tripod.com/ True Freethinker

            Everything you said can eaily describe the typical Leftist, brainwashed by Hollywood, MTV, NY Times, HuffPo, Daily Kos, MSNBC, etc. The constant bombardment of this message sucks the vulnerable into a feedback loop where truth is banished and those outside the spell, “the other” are demonized.

            guns and religion? Turns out the gunman is an atheist fundamentalist with a hatred of God and religion. This was in fact an anti-religious hate crime by an atheist who targeted Jews and both Catholic and Evangelical Christians.

            Atheists and guns are a dangerous mix!

        • Noneya

          The language used by the majority of the people associating themselves with the ‘right’ is completely inflammatory and has little to no regard or respect to the intended audience.
          It is meant to be an emotional plea to embrace insanity and ignore reason to further an agenda that would otherwise be against their better interests. The constant bombardment of this message further isolates the believer from reason and propagates the message. This is the message that Sarah Palin uses to effectively mobilize the base. Unfortunately it has divided the nation without much reliance on truth. And it is poison to the illiterate that buys into the notions of isolation and violence, guns and religion, us and them.

        • Matt C Rose

          The left is pointing out that this shooter was doing nothing more than following the marching orders set out by Palin.

          You only delete me because you fear me.
          Note that is the biggest difference between blogs on the right and left – the left allows dissenting opinions to persist. The right needs to delete them before their pristine view is sullied. Cowards!

          • neko

            I am curious Matt, what evidence you have that this shooter was following orders from Palin? Please enlighten us.

            As for your second point, I’ve had posts removed from leftist blogs or never posted at all because they must first be approved by a moderator. Please remove the plank from your own eye before pointing out the specks in our eyes.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_75PGMTIR6C44VV2ZFASP7HRRXQ Tommy

            NO. WRONG. The left allows NO dissenting views, and if you do not believe me then go on Huffington post and get one right wing post argument going that they let you conclude.

      • chet

        Wrong again ignorant one. Most people with healthy minds not infected by the hate-mongering employees of Fox News Channel, (Beck-Palin) have associated the hate-mongering rhetoric of Fox News with the increasing level of hatred being displayed across America for a long time. Because someone may have been prompted to act as a result of being infected with that rhetoric may have finally been prompted to act on it is perfectly good reason to attack the messengers – not a time to defend the messengers.

        • Lee

          How can you get all the spelling right and still be so stupid.

          • Anonymous

            He got the message right too.

          • Anonymous

            He got the message right too.

        • las

          Chet, maybe Lee’s onto something there.

          But Chet, you said, regarding FOX “Because someone may have been prompted to act as a result of being infected with that rhetoric may have finally been prompted to act on”. Present your evidence.

          I’ll be waiting…

        • las

          Chet, maybe Lee’s onto something there.

          But Chet, you said, regarding FOX “Because someone may have been prompted to act as a result of being infected with that rhetoric may have finally been prompted to act on”. Present your evidence.

          I’ll be waiting…

          • Anonymous

            BTW, don’t liberals say that people are NOT affected by what they see on TV or in the movies?

      • chet

        Wrong again ignorant one. Most people with healthy minds not infected by the hate-mongering employees of Fox News Channel, (Beck-Palin) have associated the hate-mongering rhetoric of Fox News with the increasing level of hatred being displayed across America for a long time. Because someone may have been prompted to act as a result of being infected with that rhetoric may have finally been prompted to act on it is perfectly good reason to attack the messengers – not a time to defend the messengers.

      • James

        ONLY an idiot would think she didn’t…She literally created a map with crosshairs on Gifford’s office…She told her followers not to retreat to reload…she DID incite violence and we moderates and libs have been warning that this would happen for a long looong time.. and it finally did..and the shooter was a registered Republican..FYI..that propoganda was proven wrong from the Tea Baggers…

        • las

          “She literally created a map with crosshairs on Gifford’s office.”

          In the same way that the Democratic Leadership Council “literally created a map with” bulls eyes on Republican offices?
          http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=253055&kaid=127&subid=171

          Damn! Now why did I have to point that out when I could have let you wallow in your delusion. Man you people are good… you learn your lessons well from the fake narratives created by the MSM now don’t you.

        • Anonymous

          The shooter was not a registered Republican. The “official document” you are referring to was forged. The liberal who created it could not even spell Tuscon correctly.

          But if you go back and read, you will see that his friends describe him as a “dope smoking liberal” who supported John Kerry in 2004.

          • Qen23

            “Tucson” is spelled “TuCSon”, btw.

        • http://atheismexposed.tripod.com/ True Freethinker

          Referring to Ms Giffords, “She is DEAD to me”.

          Guess who said that? Go on, guess. It was a columnist on the Daily Kos!!!

          When Lefties turn on each other, you’d better run for cover.

        • http://atheismexposed.tripod.com/ True Freethinker

          Referring to Ms Giffords, “She is DEAD to me”.

          Guess who said that? Go on, guess. It was a columnist on the Daily Kos!!!

          When Lefties turn on each other, you’d better run for cover.

      • Anonymous

        no….it’s very easy to make such association.

        angry

        anti-government

        angry

        This is the reputation of Palin and most Tea Partyers.

      • Anonymous

        no….it’s very easy to make such association.

        angry

        anti-government

        angry

        This is the reputation of Palin and most Tea Partyers.

      • Anonymous

        Actually Gabrielle Gifford associated Sarah Palin to this months ago. I’m sure Gifford would say “I told you so” if she could… but she’s not available at the moment.

        • http://www.therightscoop.com/ therightscoop

          Look who’s here. The trash blogger himself. Goodbye troll.

        • moonbatkiller

          Gabby Giffords wont probably remember most of these events anyway. and how is it palin’s fault? it was a leftist moonbat that shot her… remember?

          • Gilbert

            …so says “moonbatkiller”

          • Gilbert

            …so says “moonbatkiller”

        • moonbatkiller

          Gabby Giffords wont probably remember most of these events anyway. and how is it palin’s fault? it was a leftist moonbat that shot her… remember?

      • Anonymous

        Then why is Glen associating Sarah Palin with this event?

      • Anonymous

        Then why is Glen associating Sarah Palin with this event?

      • Reality Check

        It should haunt her. As we watch the country crumble before our eyes, we need cooperation and progress in government more than ever. She’s done nothing but try to tear the country apart with, hate-filled rhetoric, lies and misinformation, and needlessly devisive political actions to extend her own 15 minutes of fame. Send her back to exile where she belongs–a frozen tundra thousands of miles from a television camera.

    • John

      Palin doesn’t have anything to do with this tradegy. She has be crafted into it by her political opponents. It’s truly breathtaking and disgusting to watch how she has become a scapegoat.

      I can get an idea of what it must have been like for the Jews in the early years of the socialist movements in Germany, being blamed for things they had nothing to do with.

      If the socialists in America get their way, they will censor their opponents through law and turn them into figures to hate, just as the Jews were.

      Oh, and I suspect Palin isn’t running anyway. And heck, why would she want to – these bastards in the media will only continue scapegoating and tormenting her.

      • Zach

        How you can compare the persecution and killing of the Jews to the political criticism over Palin’s ill use of cross hairs and derisive rhetoric completely baffles me. I’m Jewish and you have no idea what you’re talking about.

        • DisturbingBehavior

          I’m baffled how Democrats use slavery and holocaust analogies all the time, are you bothered by that or is your dislike of John’s post because it doesn’t fit your political narrative.

          • Zach

            I didn’t start the post. Again maybe you should actually read what I write. And perhaps the post I replied too. Duh.

            • DisturbingBehavior

              ?ecealp tsrif eht ni esnes ekam ti diD . etorw uoy tahw daer t’nac I ,yrros m’I

            • John

              Palin’s “ill use of cross hairs and derisive rhetoric” had absolutely nothing to do with anything that happened in Arizona. I find it saddening how the media establishment says Palin’s “rhetoric” is dangerous, yet give people like Obama a pass when he says that if his opponents have knives, he’ll fight them with guns.

              As for “cross hairs”, any thinking person knows that Palin means target for an election, not assassination! Good grief, you have no idea how immature you sound when you pretend that somehow the murderer (who given his character has probably never even seen such a diagram) was inspired to murder an innocent child because of an obscure electoral diagram. Heck, the murderer even had it in for his congresswoman back in 2007 before Palin was even known by anybody. He doesn’t even sound like he would like Palin. He’s an flag-burning, communism-reading atheist for crying out loud.

              It’s just so obvious Palin had nothing to do with anything in Arizona. I actually find it disheartening that the socialists in America are so driven by politics that they would use a mass murder event to attack political opponents. It’s sickening, quite frankly. What should have been about praying for the families of those at the shooting has become a fight between conservatives rightly defending themselves from idiotic socialists playing politics.

              Come on, Zach. Quit relying on the media for your news and use your head.

            • John

              Palin’s “ill use of cross hairs and derisive rhetoric” had absolutely nothing to do with anything that happened in Arizona. I find it saddening how the media establishment says Palin’s “rhetoric” is dangerous, yet give people like Obama a pass when he says that if his opponents have knives, he’ll fight them with guns.

              As for “cross hairs”, any thinking person knows that Palin means target for an election, not assassination! Good grief, you have no idea how immature you sound when you pretend that somehow the murderer (who given his character has probably never even seen such a diagram) was inspired to murder an innocent child because of an obscure electoral diagram. Heck, the murderer even had it in for his congresswoman back in 2007 before Palin was even known by anybody. He doesn’t even sound like he would like Palin. He’s an flag-burning, communism-reading atheist for crying out loud.

              It’s just so obvious Palin had nothing to do with anything in Arizona. I actually find it disheartening that the socialists in America are so driven by politics that they would use a mass murder event to attack political opponents. It’s sickening, quite frankly. What should have been about praying for the families of those at the shooting has become a fight between conservatives rightly defending themselves from idiotic socialists playing politics.

              Come on, Zach. Quit relying on the media for your news and use your head.

          • James

            WELL I’m baffled how the right defends a bunch of Tea Baggers who hold up racist signs depicting Obama as a Nazi or as an African Witch doctor..etc.. or are you just upset that a member of your so-called klan group was called out in the daylight for a ridiculous analogy? He called it out because it is ridiculous comparing the two as if the extremes of what Palin’s deserved criticisms are to uh having ten million fellow humans murdered around you!!..DUH…

            • DisturbingBehavior

              I’m offended vampires are unable to eat garlic, so it should be banned from restaurants. Silver is painful to werewolves and needs to be placed behind protection glass at all times and owners of it should be registered with the government. Open flames could be harmful to mummies and should not be allowed in the public. And last, zombies need to eat too, but I don’t have a clue how to solve that problem

          • James

            WELL I’m baffled how the right defends a bunch of Tea Baggers who hold up racist signs depicting Obama as a Nazi or as an African Witch doctor..etc.. or are you just upset that a member of your so-called klan group was called out in the daylight for a ridiculous analogy? He called it out because it is ridiculous comparing the two as if the extremes of what Palin’s deserved criticisms are to uh having ten million fellow humans murdered around you!!..DUH…

      • Noneya

        No Sarah wont run away from this, she will just reload

      • T Miller

        Palin have everything to do with it, she need to be careful how she use her words, don’t she suppose to be a educated woman. yea right.

    • Anonymous

      How misguided you are. You have judged and convicted Sarah Palin. Governor Palin’s “crosshair target” map was in fact SURVEY MARKINGS not RIFLE CROSSHAIRS. Do you care about that? No. Are you on the same road to destroy Sarah? The individual who murdered 6 people and wounded Griffords, had Gabby in his SIGHTS since 2007. Sarah was not even on the National scene at that time.
      People like you, who further this LIE are as guilty as the SHOOTER. Now how do you like that?

      • Anonymous

        First of all, I don’t believe the “survey marker” story. (btw, did Sarah Palin make that claim last year when Giffords first complained about it, or did she just now come up with that? If so, then might believe her)

        Secondly, there is only one person responsible for this tragedy. And that is the shooter. (His friends and family may share a bit of responsibility if they saw warning signs and did nothing to help)

        But politically, Sarah Palin is damaged by this. Gabrielle Giffords told Sarah Palin back in March that that she felt threatened by the rifle sights. This weekend she was shot in the head.

        If you thought the Willie Horton commercial was hard on Dukakis, wait for the Giffords commercial.

        • DAC

          Although I share little in common with Gabby’s political views, I have learned enough about her from friends, family and Politicos from both sides on TV that she has a lot more charactor than you. There is nothing there, and I don’t see her making anything up for some cheap political gain. The truth is out there about this creap, and it has zero to do with SP, trying to fabricate it would backfire on Giffords.

          • Anonymous

            Congresswoman Giffords does not have to make anything up. She has already responded to Sarah Palin and Sarah Palin’s “gun target” map.

            Here is the video. Fast Forward to 2:15: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7046bo92a4

      • Anonymous

        First of all, I don’t believe the “survey marker” story. (btw, did Sarah Palin make that claim last year when Giffords first complained about it, or did she just now come up with that? If so, then might believe her)

        Secondly, there is only one person responsible for this tragedy. And that is the shooter. (His friends and family may share a bit of responsibility if they saw warning signs and did nothing to help)

        But politically, Sarah Palin is damaged by this. Gabrielle Giffords told Sarah Palin back in March that that she felt threatened by the rifle sights. This weekend she was shot in the head.

        If you thought the Willie Horton commercial was hard on Dukakis, wait for the Giffords commercial.

      • Miriam

        Goldpanner, you are so right. Congresswoman Grifford was his target since 2007. We really have to get united and not allow that the left loonies destroy us. They are using this unfortunately and criminal act, done by a lunatic, as a vendetta against Palin and Conservatives in general. Remember their own words: no crisis should go to waste.

      • Fritze09

        Goldpanner

        I was wondering how come more people arn’t saying the same about the crosshairs/survey symbols. I’ve never seen cross hairs like that but it would not surprise me at all if media types would not know the difference. Remember when Palin was on the cover of a mag ( maybe Newsweek? ) and they were complaining about how she was holding the gun over her shoulder by the front of the barrel never reasoning that she was holding a over/under and some of them thought it was a rifle

      • Fritze09

        Goldpanner

        I was wondering how come more people arn’t saying the same about the crosshairs/survey symbols. I’ve never seen cross hairs like that but it would not surprise me at all if media types would not know the difference. Remember when Palin was on the cover of a mag ( maybe Newsweek? ) and they were complaining about how she was holding the gun over her shoulder by the front of the barrel never reasoning that she was holding a over/under and some of them thought it was a rifle

      • Noneya

        Sarah Palin should have known her intended audience and refrained from that out of respect. Show a bunch of gun loving crazies a target and they will dream about shooting at it.
        You dont seem to realize that is part of politics and most importantly why it is part of politics.

      • Markedwards

        Palin destroyed herself when she went on TV

      • Markedwards

        Palin destroyed herself when she went on TV

    • Anonymous

      How misguided you are. You have judged and convicted Sarah Palin. Governor Palin’s “crosshair target” map was in fact SURVEY MARKINGS not RIFLE CROSSHAIRS. Do you care about that? No. Are you on the same road to destroy Sarah? The individual who murdered 6 people and wounded Griffords, had Gabby in his SIGHTS since 2007. Sarah was not even on the National scene at that time.
      People like you, who further this LIE are as guilty as the SHOOTER. Now how do you like that?

    • fredCPA

      your comment might have made sense…if sarah palin had anything at all to do with this. but she doesnt. are you ok dude? are you lucid dreaming maybe? do you won a gun? you say you are a 2nd amendment lover. would you please surrender your guns? if people had identified the crazy that did this, as we may now be able to do with you, maybe this could have been stopped. please surrender yourself for psycjiatric evaluatyion and you guns. thanks. i have faith you’ll do the right thing. the sarah palin thing we call it.

      • Anonymous

        Here is what the victim says about Sarah Palin’s map:

        Gabriell Giffords, March 2009: “We are on Sarah Palin’s targeted list. The way that she has it depicted has the crosshairs of the gunsight over our district. When people do that, they have got to realise there are consequences to that action.”

        Nine months later, Giffords is shot in the head.

        I don’t see how Palin will recover politically. The fact that the victim called out Palin by name, mentioned the gunsight and inferred that there may be violent consequences will haunt Sarah Palin.

        (I do not agree that Sarah Palin was responsible- not a bit. But perceptions are everything in politics)

      • Anonymous

        Here is what the victim says about Sarah Palin’s map:

        Gabriell Giffords, March 2009: “We are on Sarah Palin’s targeted list. The way that she has it depicted has the crosshairs of the gunsight over our district. When people do that, they have got to realise there are consequences to that action.”

        Nine months later, Giffords is shot in the head.

        I don’t see how Palin will recover politically. The fact that the victim called out Palin by name, mentioned the gunsight and inferred that there may be violent consequences will haunt Sarah Palin.

        (I do not agree that Sarah Palin was responsible- not a bit. But perceptions are everything in politics)

        • Miriam

          My perception is very clear and blaming a person or a political group for an act of hate committed by a senseless lunatic is not going to change my view or respect for Sarah Palin. She must feel NO guilt……..

        • las

          You seem to be banging this drum quite a bit.

          Since when does perception trump common sense, facts and truth. That’s why we have intellect and skeptical inquiry so that we can parse truth from perceptions. The perception you are on about is false. What to do… What to do? Oh yeah, we debunk it and set the record straight. Some truths are worth fighting for (if I’m allowed to use that word now) and this is definitely one of them.

          You can’t have it both ways RU… on the one hand you are giving credence to the false narrative being spun and then on the other hand you are saying Palin had nothing to do with this shooting. Which is it, because only one is true. In a court of law equivocation is folly for a lawyer, and you know what they say about that man who has himself as a lawyer… You can’t have it both ways.

    • bayhill

      Sarah Palin is not haunted….what is haunted are the political hacks and MSM journalsim who are engaging in “agitprop”. Before the bodies were even cold, the vultures were out spewing blame and HATE. Meanwhile, the truth just gets pushed asside.

      1. Daily KOS targeting Gabrielle with provacative messages.

      2. Palin Hanged in effigy (2008).

      3. The “call for calm” over the Maj. Hassan shottings, yet immediate condemnation.
      after the recent congresswoman shooting.

      4. Obama’s comments about bringing a gun
      and calling his oppoents enemies

      5. The shooter is just a plain nutjob

      • Anonymous

        I agree the Daily KOS is just as guilty. I agree the media has been unfair to Sarah Palin. And that the media and authorities let people get away with hanging an effigy of her at Halloween. It is unfair that Obama has not been held responsible for his “bring a gun” remark and the shooter is a leftist nut.

        But this event will still haunt Sarah Palin.

        Go to this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7046bo92a4

        Fast forward to 2:15. The victim responds to the gun targets on Sarah Palin’s map. This will be VERY hard for Palin to overcome.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_SVJ3DDOLXZNWP26H4CBJUHUEV4 John

      You can’t be serious.
      A left-wing anarchist schizophrenic goes on a rampage and you people blame PALIN?
      You must live in Pima County where they obviously still haven’t figured out how to involuntarily commit a dangerous lunatic. Of course leftists had all of the States’ psychiatric hospitals emptied out decades ago, yet they remain clueless and unremorseful.

      ~(Ä)~

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_SVJ3DDOLXZNWP26H4CBJUHUEV4 John

      You can’t be serious.
      A left-wing anarchist schizophrenic goes on a rampage and you people blame PALIN?
      You must live in Pima County where they obviously still haven’t figured out how to involuntarily commit a dangerous lunatic. Of course leftists had all of the States’ psychiatric hospitals emptied out decades ago, yet they remain clueless and unremorseful.

      ~(Ä)~

    • JimmyT

      I think this will in fact make her a stronger, more formidable force in American Politics. There comes a point when something, someone, or some group take that one step too far…I believe the left has finally stepped too far in their assualt on Gov. Palin. Americans en masse will see this (eventually) and she will rise up and with the rest of decent society, crush the vile and putrid hate ministers of the far-left fringe in this country.

      • Anonymous

        I disagree. This will make Sarah Palin’s Republican opponents stronger.

        And I believe you will see them begin to criticize her for her tone.

    • http://twitter.com/astroterf Cheryl Bowman

      You might want to do a little research before you spout out about the CONGRESSIONAL SEAT target map on Palin’s website. The DEMOCRAT target map (with the words “TARGET” at the top) was shown this morning on Fox&Friends from the last election. Obviously, political opponents “target” seats they think are winnable prior to investing time and money a a political effort. We know the Left enjoys restricting free speech with their political correctness, but the word target does not infer murder.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tyrone-Washington/1578750351 Tyrone Washington

      I believe you are a fake. Anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that Palin’s take back to 20 PAC campaign had nothing to do wiht Gifford being shot. This isn’t an example of a right wing nut job who never met gifford but decide to act, because he saw Sarah Pac’s website during the summer. This isn’t the case at all. You can try and make 1+1=6 all you like, people with a brain know better.

    • Stephen

      Reality check please. Target, bullseye, in your sights, etc, are all common metaphors. EVERY campaign identifies “target districts.” Are they advocating mass murder? Every news/communication operation has a “target audience.” So they are inciting the killing or their audience? In urban slang a bar, workplace, classroom etc with many members of the opposite sex is a “target rich environment.” So I guess single people want to shoot the opposite sex? BTW, Stay out of your local “Target” store for obvious reasons! Puh-leeeease.

      Read Loughner’s rants and what others say about him – then look at the symptoms of Paranoid Schizophrenia. http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/paranoid-schizophrenia/DS00862/DSECTION=symptoms

      Loughner is a textbook Paranoid Schzophrenic, quite possibly manic depressive (bipolar), and/or a drug abuser. The voices in his head came from lala land, not Palin.

    • Proudamericans

      This will haunt Osama for the rest of his Teleprompter years.

      Obama: “They Bring a Knife…We Bring a Gun”
      Obama to His Followers: “Get in Their Faces!”
      Obama on ACORN Mobs: “I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I’m angry!”
      Obama to His Mercenary Army: “Hit Back Twice As Hard”
      Obama on the private sector: “We talk to these folks… so I know whose ass to kick.“
      Obama to voters: Republican victory would mean “hand to hand combat”
      Obama to lib supporters: “It’s time to Fight for it.”
      Obama to Latino supporters: “Punish your enemies.”
      Obama to democrats: “I’m itching for a fight.”.

      • Anonymous

        I hope it does.

        But one thing is for sure, those things don’t stick to him like dumb statements stick to Sarah Palin.

        She needs to stop letting everything stick to her if she is going to turn herself around.

      • Anonymous

        Heh of course Mr. Obama is the first president ever to use a teleprompter, right?

      • Anonymous

        Heh of course Mr. Obama is the first president ever to use a teleprompter, right?

      • Anonymous

        Ms Palin, one presumes is better, she uses her hand rather than a teleprompter.

      • Anonymous

        Ms Palin, one presumes is better, she uses her hand rather than a teleprompter.

    • Proudamericans

      This will haunt Osama for the rest of his Teleprompter years.

      Obama: “They Bring a Knife…We Bring a Gun”
      Obama to His Followers: “Get in Their Faces!”
      Obama on ACORN Mobs: “I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I’m angry!”
      Obama to His Mercenary Army: “Hit Back Twice As Hard”
      Obama on the private sector: “We talk to these folks… so I know whose ass to kick.“
      Obama to voters: Republican victory would mean “hand to hand combat”
      Obama to lib supporters: “It’s time to Fight for it.”
      Obama to Latino supporters: “Punish your enemies.”
      Obama to democrats: “I’m itching for a fight.”.

    • GSMITH4124

      YOU ARE AN IDIOT. She will survive as she has done nothing wrong. I hope she is
      our next President.

      • Anonymous

        Tell me.

        How is she going to survive this? How is she going to get ahead of it?

  • Anonymous

    This event will haunt Sarah Palin for the rest of her political career.

    Gabrielle Giffords called out Sarah Palin by name when the target map was released last March. If the Congresswoman survives, all it will take is one TV commercial showing the map and her own comments from March and Sarah Palin’s bid for the White House will be stopped.

    Sarah Palin has had two years to show us another side of herself. All she has done is to reinforce herself as a Second Amendment lover (which I am as well).

    And I don’t expect Sarah Palin’s public relation skills to save her. I do expect her to get snarky with the lame stream media, the sheriff or Democrat members of congress.

  • Anonymous

    I like Palin- It is my view that she dragged Sen Mc Cain as far over the line as he could make it in 2008- she burst on to the scene and gave the campaign lot of energy. Mc Cain was running his bid for President horribly. That being said. I don’t think that she should run for President in 2012. She honestly doesn’t have enough experience, and we have seen what happens when someone with little experience is in the White House.
    I also agree that the “bulls-eye” target will haunt Sarah Palin. Lets face it, we all know she didn’t mean for any violence to occur, but it did, and all the back pedaling in the world won’t “fix” things. Next time, put cute little elephants over the districts or names. Not gun imagery.

    • Anonymous

      Exactly. And I don’t think Palin has the political savvy to overcome this.

      As far as we have seen she can only defend herself by getting snarky with those who criticize her.

      What is she going to say in the next interview when asked about this?

      Juvenile pokes at the Lame Stream Media won’t work.

      • DisturbingBehavior

        You just don’t get it. This is what kills political careers:

        Watch and learn.

    • Tyler

      Arrows would’ve worked sufficiently to make the point she was making at the time…but as Beck said earlier…only sheep would give in to the politicizing of a madman’s actions.

  • Anonymous

    I like Palin- It is my view that she dragged Sen Mc Cain as far over the line as he could make it in 2008- she burst on to the scene and gave the campaign lot of energy. Mc Cain was running his bid for President horribly. That being said. I don’t think that she should run for President in 2012. She honestly doesn’t have enough experience, and we have seen what happens when someone with little experience is in the White House.
    I also agree that the “bulls-eye” target will haunt Sarah Palin. Lets face it, we all know she didn’t mean for any violence to occur, but it did, and all the back pedaling in the world won’t “fix” things. Next time, put cute little elephants over the districts or names. Not gun imagery.

  • Bjmanzo1

    She was speaking metaphorically. Instead of trying to understand the shooter, how about something new.Blame him, convict, him and hang him.

    • Tyler

      In today’s society…I could see him being sent to a psych ward and probably released back into society after a few months. That’s what happened in France (our current path apparently) to a man who assaulted, raped, stabbed and left a girl for dead in a park. He was considered “insane,” sent to an institute and now walks back freely amongst the people.

    • Anonymous

      Why are “understand,” and “blame,” mutually exclusive? He’s clearly guilty of this, but it benefits everyone to understand what went on in his head leading up to this.

    • Anonymous

      Why are “understand,” and “blame,” mutually exclusive? He’s clearly guilty of this, but it benefits everyone to understand what went on in his head leading up to this.

  • Bjmanzo1

    She was speaking metaphorically. Instead of trying to understand the shooter, how about something new.Blame him, convict, him and hang him.

  • Alwaysbeanon

    The commentary of Palin and the right-wing led to hundreds of death threats against Giffords and the judge who was murdered. Are all those people strictly sane? What inspired them to send death threats if it wasn’t the incendiary rhetoric of the political team they subscribed to? Sending death threats to a congresswoman because of her vote on a health care bill isn’t sane, but hundreds of people felt compelled to, possibly because the deadly importance was hyped beyond all reasonable measure by Palin and Co. The right wing has made egging on unstable people with falsehoods and incendiary rhetoric and by mainstreaming conspiracy theories for two years. Maybe its time they considered that supporting “Second Amendment remedies” to an unfavorable election outcome is dog whistling to the least stable among us for political points, and that’s reprehensible.

    • http://www.therightscoop.com/ therightscoop

      GoodBye Lefty troll.

  • Alwaysbeanon

    The commentary of Palin and the right-wing led to hundreds of death threats against Giffords and the judge who was murdered. Are all those people strictly sane? What inspired them to send death threats if it wasn’t the incendiary rhetoric of the political team they subscribed to? Sending death threats to a congresswoman because of her vote on a health care bill isn’t sane, but hundreds of people felt compelled to, possibly because the deadly importance was hyped beyond all reasonable measure by Palin and Co. The right wing has made egging on unstable people with falsehoods and incendiary rhetoric and by mainstreaming conspiracy theories for two years. Maybe its time they considered that supporting “Second Amendment remedies” to an unfavorable election outcome is dog whistling to the least stable among us for political points, and that’s reprehensible.

  • al

    It’s no wonder the democrats are so cozy with the MSM: both enhance their career advancement by exploiting and capitalizing on the tragedies of others. I’d prefer more focus on “prevention” than reaction and image-making. The package bombs and guns don’t get assembled and fire by themselves. There is a person behind these heinous acts so stop tip-toeing around terrorism threats or attacking gun rights. But then democrats would lose the edge in that case…just saying…

  • al

    It’s no wonder the democrats are so cozy with the MSM: both enhance their career advancement by exploiting and capitalizing on the tragedies of others. I’d prefer more focus on “prevention” than reaction and image-making. The package bombs and guns don’t get assembled and fire by themselves. There is a person behind these heinous acts so stop tip-toeing around terrorism threats or attacking gun rights. But then democrats would lose the edge in that case…just saying…

  • al

    It’s no wonder the democrats are so cozy with the MSM: both enhance their career advancement by exploiting and capitalizing on the tragedies of others. I’d prefer more focus on “prevention” than reaction and image-making. The package bombs and guns don’t get assembled and fire by themselves. There is a person behind these heinous acts so stop tip-toeing around terrorism threats or attacking gun rights. But then democrats would lose the edge in that case…just saying…

  • al

    It’s no wonder the democrats are so cozy with the MSM: both enhance their career advancement by exploiting and capitalizing on the tragedies of others. I’d prefer more focus on “prevention” than reaction and image-making. The package bombs and guns don’t get assembled and fire by themselves. There is a person behind these heinous acts so stop tip-toeing around terrorism threats or attacking gun rights. But then democrats would lose the edge in that case…just saying…

  • wake up america

    I pity Sarah Palin because it has been the left’s objective to bring her down…and they may try but I think this will only make her stronger in our eyes! Plus it only proves that the media is in Obama’s pocket and that we can’t compete with them but we can stop watching them or those that wish to promote them.

  • Aquaviva

    Here’s an example of how NBC’s Today Show handled this tragedy this morning.

    Absolutely despicable.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/40998602#40998375

    • Bubba

      What do you mean “despicable”?!? The words came right out of Palin’s piehole you dip-stick! Just goes to show how blind the repukelicans are to any actual ‘fair and balanced’ reporting! Go back to Faux news and your good buddies Beck, Hannity and Limbo! I swear, the IQ of anyone who believes Faux news is WELL BELOW average (same crowd as Jerry Springer)

  • Gladmueth

    “This weekend made me very sad for our country that so many would willingly try and destroy a political foe by tying her to the railroad tracks of terror and violence.”

    Perhaps you should just simply be sad that there is such violence occurring and start to work on that rather than making a fuss about the political hoo haa. The violence is the root of the problem and that’s what should be addressed.

    If people do not actively ACT in a loving and peaceful manner, how will God’s power transform anything? The violent rhetoric in our societal and political discourse is disrespectful. Plain and simple. Golden rule– stick to it and you have a better chance of NOT inciting violence. Use that God-given mind and THINK before speaking. There’s plenty of ways to use language and debate that is not inciting. To act as if judging violent speech is some “slippery slope” like judging what’s pornographic is simply not taking a good close look at ourselves.

    Peace begins with you and me darling. Take responsibility for reckless words and start reaching out towards “others” and making peace.

    • Anonymous

      David Frum said as much in an article today.

      He said that Sarah Palin should, among other things, step forward and call for an end to all violent language in the political arena. Make the gesture to include herself and Democrats who have also used violent language.

    • Anonymous

      David Frum said as much in an article today.

      He said that Sarah Palin should, among other things, step forward and call for an end to all violent language in the political arena. Make the gesture to include herself and Democrats who have also used violent language.

    • http://www.therightscoop.com/ therightscoop

      Hey ‘darling’, your ignorance is paramount. If you believe that this violence is at the root of the problem, then you need to take another look at it. What is at the root of this lefty smear job is an attempt to silence the Right. And if you want to know why, then perhaps you should listen to Rush Limbaugh, Mark Levin, Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, etc. and you’ll figure it out.

    • las

      Yeah, I know, peace and love and all that stuff….

      Meanwhile, back in the real world good people are trying to contend with the lies and smears slathered all over them, trying to clear their good names from the accusations of Hell and trying to lift their heads above water in order to breathe above the false narratives constructed around their names… that’s Palin, Beck, Limbaugh and all conservatives.

      Oh, yes, peace and love whatever.

    • T Miller

      You people need to stop using God for every thing, God is getting tired of u fools,

  • Linkmeister2

    Notice how the lefty trolls come out in droves for these drive-by “cut and paste” postings all over the internet????

  • http://www.okiepatriot.blogspot.com/ Greywolfe

    The important thing to know is that the attacks on Sarah, Glenn, Rush, or any other conservative talking head has only one purpose. To control the dialogue. If you control what is acceptable then you can control the conversation. The left has been doing this for years in many other ways.

    We’re not allowed to call an illegal alien an illegal. No, they are “undocumented”. We can’t call a socialist a socialist. They are progressives. Can’t call people names of any kind, even if, or rather especially if, those names are accurate in portraying the hideous character flaws that the target is trying to hide.

    To point out their short comings is to be labeled a hate monger or evil right wing nut.

    Violence is here to stay in the political arena, folks. Interesting that it’s the leftists that are perpetrating it though.

    • Anonymous

      Everyone wants to “control” the dialog. In the USA these days it is not what is true that matters, is the narrative that counts.
      Umm I sure as hell hear lots of people and causes being called “socialist” by those on the right. Call me a socialist, please, I drive on public roads, use all sorts public facilities.

  • Anonymous

    I don’t understand why you would think this is the closet thing we’ll hear from Palin. Of course she will address this. She’s simply doing what any intelligent person who has been placed in her position is doing. She’s waiting for more information. There are so few real facts being reported that nobody really knows what this kid was all about.

    She’s smart to wait until the story is known. But she has to speak publicly and she’s smart enough to know that.

    • http://www.therightscoop.com/ therightscoop

      Sorry I clarified. I mean this is probably the most we’ll hear form her this soon. I could be wrong, but seems pretty quiet for now.

      • Anonymous

        Check out the article at Mother Jones:

        http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/01/jared-lee-loughner-friend-voicemail-phone-message?page=1

        Rush just mentioned it but Hot Air has had a Headlines link up.

        Palin really should wait until more is known.

        • Warhorse_03826

          if you’re going to read that..at least read one of the people they are talking about.
          http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2011/01/libeler-ridgeways-dishonest-nixonian.html

          • Anonymous

            Did you bother to read what you linked to? Or did you assume I wouldn’t read it?

            I love reading links by liberals. Why? Because they never read them themselves.

            This idiot claims he was libeled because the reporter reported that he told his followers to throw bricks through the windows of Giffords office and that wasn’t true. He told his followers to throw bricks through the windows of LOCAL Democrats offices. Giffords office is FEDERAL. So the reporter LIED!

            GAWD, you liberals are stupid.

          • Anonymous

            Did you bother to read what you linked to? Or did you assume I wouldn’t read it?

            I love reading links by liberals. Why? Because they never read them themselves.

            This idiot claims he was libeled because the reporter reported that he told his followers to throw bricks through the windows of Giffords office and that wasn’t true. He told his followers to throw bricks through the windows of LOCAL Democrats offices. Giffords office is FEDERAL. So the reporter LIED!

            GAWD, you liberals are stupid.

          • Anonymous

            Did you bother to read what you linked to? Or did you assume I wouldn’t read it?

            I love reading links by liberals. Why? Because they never read them themselves.

            This idiot claims he was libeled because the reporter reported that he told his followers to throw bricks through the windows of Giffords office and that wasn’t true. He told his followers to throw bricks through the windows of LOCAL Democrats offices. Giffords office is FEDERAL. So the reporter LIED!

            GAWD, you liberals are stupid.

          • Anonymous

            Did you bother to read what you linked to? Or did you assume I wouldn’t read it?

            I love reading links by liberals. Why? Because they never read them themselves.

            This idiot claims he was libeled because the reporter reported that he told his followers to throw bricks through the windows of Giffords office and that wasn’t true. He told his followers to throw bricks through the windows of LOCAL Democrats offices. Giffords office is FEDERAL. So the reporter LIED!

            GAWD, you liberals are stupid.

        • Warhorse_03826

          if you’re going to read that..at least read one of the people they are talking about.
          http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2011/01/libeler-ridgeways-dishonest-nixonian.html

      • Anonymous

        Check out the article at Mother Jones:

        http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/01/jared-lee-loughner-friend-voicemail-phone-message?page=1

        Rush just mentioned it but Hot Air has had a Headlines link up.

        Palin really should wait until more is known.

      • Anonymous

        Check out the article at Mother Jones:

        http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/01/jared-lee-loughner-friend-voicemail-phone-message?page=1

        Rush just mentioned it but Hot Air has had a Headlines link up.

        Palin really should wait until more is known.

      • Anonymous

        Check out the article at Mother Jones:

        http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/01/jared-lee-loughner-friend-voicemail-phone-message?page=1

        Rush just mentioned it but Hot Air has had a Headlines link up.

        Palin really should wait until more is known.

  • http://twitter.com/queenoftheclick Queen of the Click

    I don’t understand why Sarah Palin has left that map up on her Facebook page all this time. I am not a Palin fan, but when I heard the news, I thought the media made it up. I don’t care if the shooter likes her or doesn’t like her. The map is inappropriate.

    How could she post a map with crosshairs? Palin didn’t make it, but she allowed it to be posted under her name and it stills remains on her facebook page (March 2010)

    If a teenager posted a map like that with names, they would be brought in by the police for questioning.

    If a terrorist posted a map like that, the police surely would have brought him in for questioning.

    If you need to have a map, use triangles or squares. When it’s crosshairs and comes with a strong slogan, it’s inappropriate.

    When you are in the media or a politician, you have a responsibility. Palin used poor judgement and should apologize for her actions. I don’t know how she consider running for office when she is promoting hate and violence.

    • Anonymous

      Did you check the Democrats site to see if their chart with the bulleyes is still there?

      Or is your hatred for Palin the real issue?

      • Zach

        The issue itself is not one’s preference for Palin or not.

        I would agree that Palin’s campaign rhetoric is not directly responsible for the horrific Arizona shooting.

        However she is not without responsibility as a politician and public speaker.

        • Anonymous

          So what should be done with people like Alan Grayson? What about Keith Olbermann? Chris Matthews? Ed Shultz? What do you want done about people like that? If you think Palin has some responsibility, then they what would you suggest be done with people who say far worse things than she’s ever said?

          • Zach

            I would agree that these individuals are also responsible for there actions as are all these individuals in posting on this website. We all have a responsibility as Americans to set the right discourse and frame the political debate in a non-violent context.

            Gifford called Palin out.

            I could point to the horrible and nonsensical things that Hannity, Limbaugh and Beck say weekly to you. But what good would that do? You would probably take it the wrong way.

            The fact is the partisan rancor is out of control on both sides of aisle in media.

            However it’s Palin that’s on the spotlight. Unfavorable spotlight that Palin herself could have avoided by toning down her rhetoric.

            I consider myself a Blue Dog Democrat like Gifford. I am a moderate and left of center. But as an American citizen it’s disheartening to see how contentious and cutthroat our political pundits have come.

            So instead of blaming the Left or the Right maybe it’s about time individuals find the proper way to honor the real victims of the Arizona tragedy.

            I’m fairly certain that my political view is different than yours. Personally I disagree with Palin’s politics and perhaps yours. But that doesn’t mean that I am any less American. And it certainly does not make me a socialist.

            http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/01/10/david-frum-what-sarah-palin-should-have-said-about-tucson-shooting/

            • Anonymous

              Please do quote from Rush, Hannity, and Beck. Go ahead. Find one quote from any of them that is even in the same realm as the hatred spewed by Alan Grayson on the floor of the US Congress. Find one statement by any conservative of your choice that is even close to the vile venom spewed by Keith Olbermann.

              Chris Matthews has done far worse to Michelle Bachmann than anything any conservative has ever said about a liberal. He has asked her if she’s in a trance. She has called her a zombie. He has called her stupid.

              What liberals say about conservatives is far worse in this current context than anything Sean Hannity has ever said about anyone. Liberals like Olbermann and Matthews don’t just insult republicans and conservatives, they don’t just demonize republicans and conservatives, they dehumanize them. A zombie?

              But please do quote anything from Rush, Sean and any other conservative you hate so much.

              • Pseudoenergy

                Here ya go:

                “I tell people don’t kill all the liberals, leave enough around so we can have two on every campus; living fossils, so we will never forget what these people stood for.”

                -Rush Limbaugh

                ‎”I want people in Minnesota armed and dangerous on this issue of the energy tax because we need to fight back. Thomas Jefferson told us ‘having a revolution every now and then is a good thing,’ and the people—we the people—are going to have to fight back hard if we’re not going to lose our country.”
                —Michele Bachmann

                ‎”I hope that’s not where we’re going, but you know if this Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies and saying my goodness what can we do to turn this country around? I’ll tell you the first thing we need to do is take Harry Reid out.”
                —Sharron Angle

                ‎”Our nation was founded on violence. The option is on the table. I don’t think that we should ever remove anything from the table as it relates to our liberties and our freedoms.”
                —Texas GOP congressional candidate Stephen Broden

                ‎”I’m thinking about killing Michael Moore, and I’m wondering if I could kill him myself, or if I would need to hire somebody to do it. … No, I think I could. I think he could be looking me in the eye, you know, and I could just be choking the life out.”
                —Glenn Beck

                ”We’re talking about a militant terrorist situation, which I believe it isn’t a widespread thing, but it is enough that we need to address, and we have been addressing it. My thoughts are these, first of all, Dearborn, Michigan, and Frankford, Texas are on American soil, and under constitutional law. Not Sharia law. And I don’t know how that happened in the United States. It seems to me there is something fundamentally wrong with allowing a foreign system of law to even take hold in any municipality or government situation in our United States.”
                —Sharron Angle

                ‎”Ground Zero Mosque supporters: doesn’t it stab you in the heart, as it does ours throughout the heartland? Peaceful Muslims, pls refudiate.”
                —Sarah Palin

                ‘The feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians.”
                —Pat Robertson

                ‎”My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times Building.”
                —Ann Coulter

                ”The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama’s ‘death panel.”’
                —Sarah Palin

                ‎”We need to execute people like (John Walker Lindh) in order to physically intimidate liberals.”
                —Ann Coulter

                “Baby Killer!”
                —Rep. Randy Neugebauer (R-Texas), shouting at Rep. Bart Stupak (D-MI)

                ‎”She’s a f**king raghead. We got a raghead in Washington; we don’t need one in South Carolina. She’s a raghead that’s ashamed of her religion trying to hide it behind being Methodist for political reasons.”
                —South Carolina State Sen. Jake Knotts (R)

                ‘He has no place in any station of government and we need to realize that he is an enemy of humanity.”
                —Rep. Trent Franks (R-AZ)

                ‘I wish the American media would take a great look at the views of the people in Congress and find out: Are they pro-America or anti-America?”
                —Rep. Michelle Bachmann

                • Anonymous

                  Thank you. Now when people say that both sides do it, we can see that nothing you’ve quoted from any conservative is close to the vile venom spewed by the typical liberal on a constant daily basis. There has never been any equivalence.

            • Chief

              How about blaming the shooter .

              The fact that some of you are on here attempting to dance on Palin’s political grave before the 9 year old girl or the other victims are even buried is very telling.

              It is sick and twisted.

            • las

              “I’m a Blue Dog Democrat like Gifford. I am a moderate and left of center.”

              huh?

          • Zach

            I would agree that these individuals are also responsible for there actions as are all these individuals in posting on this website. We all have a responsibility as Americans to set the right discourse and frame the political debate in a non-violent context.

            Gifford called Palin out.

            I could point to the horrible and nonsensical things that Hannity, Limbaugh and Beck say weekly to you. But what good would that do? You would probably take it the wrong way.

            The fact is the partisan rancor is out of control on both sides of aisle in media.

            However it’s Palin that’s on the spotlight. Unfavorable spotlight that Palin herself could have avoided by toning down her rhetoric.

            I consider myself a Blue Dog Democrat like Gifford. I am a moderate and left of center. But as an American citizen it’s disheartening to see how contentious and cutthroat our political pundits have come.

            So instead of blaming the Left or the Right maybe it’s about time individuals find the proper way to honor the real victims of the Arizona tragedy.

            I’m fairly certain that my political view is different than yours. Personally I disagree with Palin’s politics and perhaps yours. But that doesn’t mean that I am any less American. And it certainly does not make me a socialist.

            http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/01/10/david-frum-what-sarah-palin-should-have-said-about-tucson-shooting/

        • Anonymous

          That’s just silly.

          Why don’t you go ahead then and name who else is responsible.

          That’s what has everyone around here ticked, the only names I’ve been hearing are the usual Conservative scapegoats, it’s disgusting and despicable. The one nice thing about this is the left loses what ever was left of their credibility in the public eye.

          Here let’s continue the far reaching blame game:

          This kid watched one to many movies about reality not being reality, Matrix, Inception. To a Nihilist this is a green light to anything he wants or sees fit. Take it up with Hollywood under your misguided blame game.

          It’s Jared’s fault PERIOD.

          • Zach

            Yes, I agree it’s Jared. And no if you actually read my post I was not blaming Palin. Again please read.

            • Anonymous

              Palin’s in the spot light for no other reason than the left is insanely obsessed with her. The left is falling to pieces and they think this is their ticket to turn things around. Talk about some dishonest and despicable opportunism.

              We’re outraged that we were blamed again incorrectly.
              We’re outraged that they’re still perpetuating false claims.
              We’re outraged that their using political rhetoric to condemn political rhetoric.
              We’re outraged at these allegations at this moment of tragedy.

              BTW rhetoric had nothing to do with this tragedy. A mentally screwed up kid was pissed that Rep Giffords didn’t answer his unanswerable question correctly. For that 6 people are dead and many more hospitalized.

              Perhaps you could link to some of yours comments at Daily Kos or Huffpo so we can see you’re actually serious about what you’re talking about here.

        • DisturbingBehavior

          Are you responsible because your write on a message board for a blog site?

          Just because you’re in the game(however you wanna view the political arena) doesn’t mean you’re responsible for it. By your analogy, all drivers are partially responsible for all accidents because they choose to drive. Just ban driving, all auto accidents are solved.

          • Zach

            All individual’s are responsible for the actions and words. That is why Palin took her map down and off the internet.

            Drivers are most certainly not responsible for other accidents but for the own actions. Actions which may or may not lead to accidents.

            • DisturbingBehavior

              No, by saying she is responsible for the actions of someone who she has no control over, whether by any degree of measure, is ridiculous. But this is the argument you propose by saying, “However she is not without responsibility as a politician and public speaker.”
              Because you drive on the road, you affect other drivers. This inherently means you could and would affect the accidents on the road. Under your the suggestion of your comment(changed to a variation of this, “However [the driver] is not without responsibility [for the accident] as a [driver on the road]”) you have established a responsibility for all accidents on the road.

              • Zach

                Again I never have said and will say that Sarah Palin is directly responsible.

                Does she have have a responsibility as a politician and a public speaker— YES.

                Your analogy was false to begin with and like you I AGREE that Sarah Palin is not responsible for all the stupid things that people do.

                But like yourself,

                “Because you drive on the road, you affect other drivers. This inherently means you could and would affect the accidents on the road.”

                Not ALL accidents. Duh.

                • DisturbingBehavior

                  “Your analogy was false to begin with” and yet you say “Not ALL accidents. Duh.”
                  Define the parameters? is it all accidents in a 50 mile radius, is it all accidents on the highways you’ve been driving on, is it just between your origin and destination, is it just during certain times of the day, what accidents would drivers be responsible for?

                • Anonymous

                  Responsibility for her statements and map does not translate into responsibility for the actions of others.

                  If I’m reading you right, you seem to understand this, and are saying it, but the point is not getting across or being made clearly enough for others.

            • DisturbingBehavior

              No, by saying she is responsible for the actions of someone who she has no control over, whether by any degree of measure, is ridiculous. But this is the argument you propose by saying, “However she is not without responsibility as a politician and public speaker.”
              Because you drive on the road, you affect other drivers. This inherently means you could and would affect the accidents on the road. Under your the suggestion of your comment(changed to a variation of this, “However [the driver] is not without responsibility [for the accident] as a [driver on the road]”) you have established a responsibility for all accidents on the road.

      • las

        Maybe Scoop should do a separate posting for this alone.

        One thing’s quite plain now… Progressives have put Palin in their crosshairs and this Arizona shooting is having them shout Bullseye!

        So for all you floor p!$$ers out there… once again… check out the Democrat Party’s map with Bullseyes against Republicans…. sheesh

        http://www.verumserum.com/?p=13647

  • http://twitter.com/queenoftheclick Queen of the Click

    I don’t understand why Sarah Palin has left that map up on her Facebook page all this time. I am not a Palin fan, but when I heard the news, I thought the media made it up. I don’t care if the shooter likes her or doesn’t like her. The map is inappropriate.

    How could she post a map with crosshairs? Palin didn’t make it, but she allowed it to be posted under her name and it stills remains on her facebook page (March 2010)

    If a teenager posted a map like that with names, they would be brought in by the police for questioning.

    If a terrorist posted a map like that, the police surely would have brought him in for questioning.

    If you need to have a map, use triangles or squares. When it’s crosshairs and comes with a strong slogan, it’s inappropriate.

    When you are in the media or a politician, you have a responsibility. Palin used poor judgement and should apologize for her actions. I don’t know how she consider running for office when she is promoting hate and violence.

  • Anonymous

    I agree that only the adherence to the commandments of God will save us. This whole circus is incredible. Why is it that we blame our political foes if any bad thing happens? How is it that politicians and political police as well as news “journalists and pundits” know the motivation of a deranged individual and can “blame” another person or group of people for it?

  • Happyteach2

    Where have many of those who are leaving comments here today been for the past two days? STILL calling names? STILL “left” this and “right” that? Where are the peace makers? You know, the ones God calls “blessed”. Many were killed and injured Saturday, but the one that stands out in my mind is the little girl who “wanted to make a difference” in the world. The next time any of you want to call names and spew anger and impatience, think of her and put a lid on it. Be a peacemaker. When you raise your hand to point your finger. open it instead with your arm extended

  • http://twitter.com/astroterf Cheryl Bowman

    The thoughts expressed by Beck and Palin are 180 degrees apart from the hate that filled the blogosphere over the weekend. I am more committed than ever in my PEACEFUL perseverance against the attempted Socialist take-over of our government by the Left. All the spin by the media is an insult to our intelligence and they will not get away with their distortion of this tragedy.

  • http://twitter.com/astroterf Cheryl Bowman

    The thoughts expressed by Beck and Palin are 180 degrees apart from the hate that filled the blogosphere over the weekend. I am more committed than ever in my PEACEFUL perseverance against the attempted Socialist take-over of our government by the Left. All the spin by the media is an insult to our intelligence and they will not get away with their distortion of this tragedy.

  • AmericaBlessGod

    I have never agreed more with you: “This nation, more now than perhaps ever, needs to intimately know the tranformative power of God”. With that said, let FOX start a new campaign (2 Chronicles 7:14 ). I’ll do what I can – buy the t-shirt, donate, make phone calls… And how about some new bumper magnets….”America Bless God”. We’re always asking Him to bless us.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tyrone-Washington/1578750351 Tyrone Washington

    Why would this event hunt Sarah Palin? There isn’t even any evidence that the gunmen was a supporter of hers. This is insanity to assume this. THE GUNMAN KNEW GULLIFORD FROM 4 YEARS AGO!!!

    • Anonymous

      It will haunt Sarah Palin because the victim, Congresswoman Giffords, has already responded to the “gun target” map.

      If and when Palin comes out for a (non-Hannity/non-O’Reilly) interview, this shooting is going to be the first question. It is likely they will play this clip ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7046bo92a4 ) from last march and ask Sarah Palin to respond.

  • Us_goj490

    Laughner knew Rep. Giffords for four years. Only when the liberals protest the reading of the constitiution and Rep. Giffords took place of the reading, that Loughner felt betrade and took action. I blane the liberals congress people for protesting the reading of the constitution.

  • Techgrad80

    It’s more likely that this guy read BoyBlue’s comment on Daily Kos about he being dead to him after voting against Pelosi:

    http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=249273

  • Takestwo

    I completely agree… the main stream media is portraying this as somehow palins fault! You can’t even find the map with the crosshairs on palins website anymore. Shame on you democrats and gun toting fear mongering hippie liberals!

  • http://www.facebook.com/mikeymckoy Mike McKoy

    Sarah Palin: “WAR IN IRAQ IS GOD’S PLAN!” http://bit.ly/3hIVOb
    I’m not against her but it sounds a lot different then todays quote from Glenn Beck.

    LOL… who can tell which side is telling the truth. They all need to renounce it. Period.

    • K Bailey

      There is a big difference in ‘praying that the war in Iraq is part of God’s plan’ and making a declaration that it is God’s plan. Either you are incapable of telling the difference, or you are purposely misrepresenting what she was saying. Which is it?

  • http://www.facebook.com/mikeymckoy Mike McKoy

    Sarah Palin: “WAR IN IRAQ IS GOD’S PLAN!” http://bit.ly/3hIVOb
    I’m not against her but it sounds a lot different then todays quote from Glenn Beck.

    LOL… who can tell which side is telling the truth. They all need to renounce it. Period.

  • Anonymous

    “TARGET” is a marketing term, you idiots! It has been used for decades by advertising agencies, to define a market for a product. Politicians have used it for decades to determine a district where they intend to influence voters. Anyone who thinks the term promotes violence is being intentionally dishonest, for political gain. How about Obama saying, “If they bring a knife to the fight, we’ll bring a gun.” Was he inciting violence?????????

    • Anonymous

      If Target was a marketing term, Sarah Palin should have said so last March when the Congresswoman complained about Sarah Palin’s map with “gun targets” on it. Palin’s map was discussed by Gabrielle Giffords in context of the Congresswoman receiving threats and having her office vandalized.

    • Anonymous

      If Target was a marketing term, Sarah Palin should have said so last March when the Congresswoman complained about Sarah Palin’s map with “gun targets” on it. Palin’s map was discussed by Gabrielle Giffords in context of the Congresswoman receiving threats and having her office vandalized.

  • Drw232p

    The left never cease to amaze me. I have never in my life seen political figures as hated as Bush and Palin have been, but it’s the RIGHT’s fault for this leftwing lunatic to shoot people?

    • http://openid-provider.appspot.com/collection60@googlemail.com Collection60

      Stop lying you insane rethuglican liar.

      People said Bush should be imprisoned for lies. I said the same thing myself. Being tried and imprisoned, is not incitement to violence. I never heard anyone say Bush should be killed. Well, maybe some crazy Arabs living in Arab countries… But certainly not Americans.

      And Sarah Palin says “Don’t retreat, reload”, with gun targets over Democrat politician towns, with their names. This is clear incitement to violence.

      Republicans do this all the time. Quite a few sayd the US govt should assassinate Julian Assange of wikileaks.

      Democrats only spoke of imprisoning Assange. So right there you have a difference. Republicans want to kill truthspeakers. Democrats want to imprison truthspeakers.

      They are both bad. But rethuglicans are worse.

      • Anonymous

        They made an entire movie about Bush’s assassination troll.

        Yes a clear incitement to violence that never happened.

        This kid was crazy, it was Rep. Giffords answer to his delusional question that set him down this road. Which was back in 2007.

        Now if we do a little time line here when did you first hear about Palin 2008? This mad man began his angry obsession of Rep. Giffords before Palin came on to the national stage.

        What’s more important though is I think it’s about to come out that the Sheriff of that town is about to be up to his eyeballs in culpability. He’s in CYA mode right now blaming anyone and everyone because it might turn out that his department knew about this kid.

      • Anonymous

        They made an entire movie about Bush’s assassination troll.

        Yes a clear incitement to violence that never happened.

        This kid was crazy, it was Rep. Giffords answer to his delusional question that set him down this road. Which was back in 2007.

        Now if we do a little time line here when did you first hear about Palin 2008? This mad man began his angry obsession of Rep. Giffords before Palin came on to the national stage.

        What’s more important though is I think it’s about to come out that the Sheriff of that town is about to be up to his eyeballs in culpability. He’s in CYA mode right now blaming anyone and everyone because it might turn out that his department knew about this kid.

  • Fulx606

    Sarah Palin writing Glenn Beck to say she “hates violence”? Is this suppose to be a joke??? These are two of the most divisive, irreverent and caustic individuals in America! They thrive on inciting violence! In fact, as far as I’m concerned, Sarah Palin is THE predominant reason Gabrielle Gifford was targeted on Saturday! She places Gifford’s district in the hairs of a gun site and now tries to dance her way out of it? Give me a break! This is why our country is so violent right now! You and those of
    your ilk seem barely human anymore. You are the epitome of encouragers of violence! You carry this guilt as much as the hitman….what have you been preaching for the past few years?? He just did you bidding…..

  • Fulx606

    Sarah Palin writing Glenn Beck to say she “hates violence”? Is this suppose to be a joke??? These are two of the most divisive, irreverent and caustic individuals in America! They thrive on inciting violence! In fact, as far as I’m concerned, Sarah Palin is THE predominant reason Gabrielle Gifford was targeted on Saturday! She places Gifford’s district in the hairs of a gun site and now tries to dance her way out of it? Give me a break! This is why our country is so violent right now! You and those of
    your ilk seem barely human anymore. You are the epitome of encouragers of violence! You carry this guilt as much as the hitman….what have you been preaching for the past few years?? He just did you bidding…..

    • http://www.therightscoop.com/ therightscoop

      The trolls are out in force today. Goodbye moron.

      • Theoverscoop

        Wow – you know, it’s funny, for a group who is so interested in dialogue and allowing others to speak their minds, there are sure a lot of comments removed from “lefty trolls”.

        • DisturbingBehavior

          Open debate requires analysis and understanding with the discourse. There is no doubt some people just won’t agree, but there should still be amicable civility between those who are involved in the discussion. When someone ends up arguing with insults and wears blinders(not willing to look at something from another perspective) it brings an end to the debate. In addition, bringing in false information does not help the credibility over those who wish to discuss the discourse. These were not individuals interested in dialogue, they were antagonistic at best.

        • DisturbingBehavior

          Open debate requires analysis and understanding with the discourse. There is no doubt some people just won’t agree, but there should still be amicable civility between those who are involved in the discussion. When someone ends up arguing with insults and wears blinders(not willing to look at something from another perspective) it brings an end to the debate. In addition, bringing in false information does not help the credibility over those who wish to discuss the discourse. These were not individuals interested in dialogue, they were antagonistic at best.

        • Anonymous

          This site (the moderators) is eminently respectful and open to differing points of view in the comments, so long as they are respectful themselves and occasionally coherently presented.

          Anyone on this site can tell you that people agree with me maybe 1% of the time, but I have only had one of my hundreds of posts edited/removed. That one time was due to my slipping into childish insults with ExtremelyRight.

          Considering your name, though, I doubt you’ll hang around long enough to see that.

          • las

            “people agree with me maybe 1% of the time”

            Dan… don’t put yourself down… maybe 2%… tops.

            Good to see you in this bruhaha over this subject. I notice today it’s getting worse in the media, just when you thought it couldn’t get any worse. This will be a good thing if the issue from all sides gets an airing… let all the dirty laundry be exposed, I say. Some embarrassing things are coming out for Conservatives and its going to be a rough road, but the Libs… naw… they control the narrative… no navel gazing or soul searching from their side no admissions of any sort.

          • las

            “people agree with me maybe 1% of the time”

            Dan… don’t put yourself down… maybe 2%… tops.

            Good to see you in this bruhaha over this subject. I notice today it’s getting worse in the media, just when you thought it couldn’t get any worse. This will be a good thing if the issue from all sides gets an airing… let all the dirty laundry be exposed, I say. Some embarrassing things are coming out for Conservatives and its going to be a rough road, but the Libs… naw… they control the narrative… no navel gazing or soul searching from their side no admissions of any sort.

            • Anonymous

              2% you say!? This calls for a celebration!

  • diana

    A mentally disturbed and ill man killed and wounded many people. Family and friends of these people are in unbearable pain and mourning. Could we please stop blaming the left or right. Both parties use the same language, at times, about their opponents. My president, not to long ago said this “We will punish our enemies and reward our friends”. Everyone should chill out and stop using this horrific event to smear other individuals and groups.

    • Anonymous

      Yes. I agree.

  • diana

    A mentally disturbed and ill man killed and wounded many people. Family and friends of these people are in unbearable pain and mourning. Could we please stop blaming the left or right. Both parties use the same language, at times, about their opponents. My president, not to long ago said this “We will punish our enemies and reward our friends”. Everyone should chill out and stop using this horrific event to smear other individuals and groups.

  • Enough Already

    Oh Please….Shut UP!!!

  • Enough Already

    Oh Please….Shut UP!!!

  • http://twitter.com/derised1 lyf

    Loughner’s friends have said he was not political but obsessed with philosophy. He was not a nihilist and anarchist. He had disturbing mental disorders as we are finding out from his classmates and teachers.

    Loughner has been stalking Giffords since 2007 according to the Criminal Complaint (Gretawire.com has a copy). He was like a John Hinckley type stalker and killer. We will learn more details in time.

  • http://twitter.com/derised1 lyf

    Loughner’s friends have said he was not political but obsessed with philosophy. He was not a nihilist and anarchist. He had disturbing mental disorders as we are finding out from his classmates and teachers.

    Loughner has been stalking Giffords since 2007 according to the Criminal Complaint (Gretawire.com has a copy). He was like a John Hinckley type stalker and killer. We will learn more details in time.

  • Proudamericans

    Obama: “They Bring a Knife…We Bring a Gun”
    Obama to His Followers: “Get in Their Faces!”
    Obama on ACORN Mobs: “I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I’m angry!”
    Obama to His Mercenary Army: “Hit Back Twice As Hard”
    Obama on the private sector: “We talk to these folks… so I know whose ass to kick.“
    Obama to voters: Republican victory would mean “hand to hand combat”
    Obama to lib supporters: “It’s time to Fight for it.”
    Obama to Latino supporters: “Punish your enemies.”
    Obama to democrats: “I’m itching for a fight.”.

    • Anonymous

      Don’t you see fight analogies and language and just saying “I am angry” as being very different from targeting specific people or explicitly talking about violence (ie – “second amendment remedies”) rather than violent metaphors?

    • T Miller

      You have nothing else to post but something stupid, it just show how smart u are.

  • Just an American
  • Anonymous

    re: “This weekend made me very sad for our country that so many would willingly try and destroy a political foe by tying her to the railroad tracks of terror and violence.”

    Let me get this straight… let me try to understand what you’re saying… this weekend made you sad because of what happened to Sarah Palin????

    • Chief

      The events this weekend must not have made you sad since you are on here blaming Palin for this tragedy instead of the lunatic gunman.

      What kind of sick person starts trying to link a political foe to a tragic shooting with the intent to destroy this politician.

      • Anonymous

        You must be mistaking me for someone else – I never once blamed Palin for this tragedy. I simply don’t see her as the victim, nor do I see her as especially helpful in preventing these sorts of things.

        I never blamed her for the tragedy.

        I’m guessing I’m not the first person you’ve accused of this in the last three days.

        Stop it.

  • Cambermeister

    Is there evidence of the ‘Right”?, no evidence at all,
    We’ll find something, they must take the fall.

    The Sheriff attacted Palin and the anger she brought,
    never a mention of truth, the shooter enjoyed pot.

    Sheriff railed against Sharon Angle who ran against Reid,
    but never complained that the shooter smoked weed.

    “Let’s calm Talk Radio, legislation we will pass”,
    The boy never heard Rush, he was smoking the grass.

    They’ve all gone nuts, placing blame where it’s not,
    maybe, just maybe we should consider the pot.

    But that’s not how it works, the Left loves MaryJane,
    one way or another, it’s Glenn Beck they’ll blame.

    • Bob Moobs

      Evil weed. They should follow Rush’s example and take oxycontin. There’s two benefits. It infuses an individual with love and logic and enhances their hearing. Pot just makes people violent and insane.

  • LeeVon

    “Another Leftie Lie Shot Down: Confirmed, Arizona Shooter Fixated On Giffords Long Before the Tea Party Was Created , or Anyone Knew Who Sarah Palin Was “

  • Anonymous

    Why does Glen think America is so weak that it could be brought down by an attack on one, private citizen? We survived the attempt on Ronald Regan, I think would could survive the (God forbid) attempt on Sarah Palin. Such a drama queen.

  • Anonymous

    Why does Glen think America is so weak that it could be brought down by an attack on one, private citizen? We survived the attempt on Ronald Regan, I think would could survive the (God forbid) attempt on Sarah Palin. Such a drama queen.

  • who?

    sarah who? she’s still around?

  • http://twitter.com/Super_Sachiko Jasmine Clark

    please spread this video around, everyone. liberals need to see this!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFgeyVGRA8Y

  • Matt

    What’s incredible is how many leftists on this thread are lamenting the “lack of civility” – where we they for the 8 years Bush was president. The left called him Hitler and made movies in which the plot involved assassinating Bush. Sarah Palin’s “rhetoric”, whatever you think it is, has never risen to the level of bile spewed by the left at Bush, Cheney, Rove and some of the right wing talkers. Apparently I’m fairly certain Sarah Palin never wished cancer on any of her opponents- can’t say the same for democrats.

  • Brokenboat

    Why is it that the right wing brings religion and/or God into this discussion. What happened in Tuscon has nothing to do with religion. It has to do with an apparently unstable individual and whether or not the hate and vitriole spewed out by the likes of Beck and Limbaugh over the years has a causal effect on unstable or potentially violent individuals. I am not saying Beck or Limbaugh are right or wrong, however we are all responsible for how we use words to effect others. I am a moderate, registered independant and have had it with all you bozo’s left and right. If we do not find compromise again and address our most serious national problems with more appropriate political discourse, then this will probably happen again.

  • Dnlchisholm

    hmm… First Mitt goes to Afghanistan to meet with Petreus and Karzai and the VP Biden makes a “surprise” trip hours later. Coincidence? http://mittromneycentral.com/2011/01/10/governor-mitt-romney-meets-with-afghanistan-president-hamid-karzai/ What’s going on with this?

    • Marcus5

      Wow guys. Hope all this petty party bickering makes you proud. 10 years from now, when our ignorance is revealed to us, everyone will realize how becoming obsessed with one party is not solving any problem.

    • Marcus5

      Wow guys. Hope all this petty party bickering makes you proud. 10 years from now, when our ignorance is revealed to us, everyone will realize how becoming obsessed with one party is not solving any problem.

  • Duglarri

    “The left will make inciting violence a crime”- how dare they challenge our god-given right to suggest to the mentally ill that somebody should shoot them.

    For this they should be shot!

    To quote Sarah, “lock and load”! Take them out for suggesting that calling for taking them out might lead someone to actually, you know, take them out!

  • Rich

    Sarah Palin is complicit.

  • tim

    I’m following this “discussion” from over here in Europe.

    I was in the states for 4 weeks in October and followed your nasty election campaign. I’m not surprised some crazy nutjob went out and killed someone.

    The name calling which goes on in this thread is ridiculous and a mirror of the campaigning.

    You have some truly crazy people appearing on TV. Your lefty/righty/bible/blablabla talk is not funny anymore, just very, very sad.

    Good luck.

    • Goldni007

      You are kidding right? Have you seen the fist to fist in the British House of Commons? or the riots in France? Greece? Spain?

      • Anonymous

        Well said!

        I find it interesting that people who make these comments rarely state which country in Europe they’re from. It’s just Europe in general.

        Truth be told I’m not sure if there is a country in Europe that doesn’t have riots going on. I’m willing to bet you’d trade one crazy lone gun man for all your Islam and anarchist problems.

    • Goldni007

      You are kidding right? Have you seen the fist to fist in the British House of Commons? or the riots in France? Greece? Spain?

  • tim

    I’m following this “discussion” from over here in Europe.

    I was in the states for 4 weeks in October and followed your nasty election campaign. I’m not surprised some crazy nutjob went out and killed someone.

    The name calling which goes on in this thread is ridiculous and a mirror of the campaigning.

    You have some truly crazy people appearing on TV. Your lefty/righty/bible/blablabla talk is not funny anymore, just very, very sad.

    Good luck.

  • Damon341

    I Glen Beck insane. What a flip flopper, He’s the original spin city. Sarah Palin really needs to distance herself as far away as she can from this nutcase before she loses her credibility.

    • Goldni007

      You think Glenn is insane? How so sir?

      • Damon341

        Are you for real? The guy rants and raves then when told by his bosses to tone it down yesterday he spins into…..Oh..I want all of you to go to my website and sign your name to show we appose violence!

        Try going to some if the youtube.com videos on this nutcase and you’ll change your view on him. i used to watch him and even agreed with him but once he got to his new gig at FOX he went off the deep end when he realized he was getting big bucks for ranting and raving.

      • Damon341

        Are you for real? The guy rants and raves then when told by his bosses to tone it down yesterday he spins into…..Oh..I want all of you to go to my website and sign your name to show we appose violence!

        Try going to some if the youtube.com videos on this nutcase and you’ll change your view on him. i used to watch him and even agreed with him but once he got to his new gig at FOX he went off the deep end when he realized he was getting big bucks for ranting and raving.

        • DisturbingBehavior

          You watched CNN? Did you listen to his radio show?

        • Anonymous

          Beck message hasn’t changed that I’m aware of. He was going after Bush as well. Even Chris Matthew and Maddow have admitted he was one of the smartest people they’d come across. Right up until the President changed then suddenly they disagreed.

          lol what’s this youtube your linking to? I think you’ve got your copy and paste screwed up again.

          You’ve gotta work on your troll skills.

      • Damon341

        Are you for real? The guy rants and raves then when told by his bosses to tone it down yesterday he spins into…..Oh..I want all of you to go to my website and sign your name to show we appose violence!

        Try going to some if the youtube.com videos on this nutcase and you’ll change your view on him. i used to watch him and even agreed with him but once he got to his new gig at FOX he went off the deep end when he realized he was getting big bucks for ranting and raving.

      • damon341

        Heres a sample on how Beck reacts when put on the spot….Pretty entertaining!Just cut and paste it then make sure the popcorns got plenty of butter on it and make sure you got a lid on your soda and drink it through a straw cause your gonna be laughing at Ol’ Glen throught your nose!

        • DisturbingBehavior

          wow, media matters guy. gotch’ya

        • Anonymous

          That was a great Beck clip! See you’re improving your linking skills already nice work.

          Glenn was yelling at that lady because she accused him of being in favor of something he was opposed to. He’d come out in opposition to it many, many times, the fact that this lady was accusing him of it just meant she had no idea what Becks positions really were.

          Let me give you an example, it would be like me after everything that you’ve stated here about Beck saying, “I can’t believe you like Glenn Beck, what’s wrong with you, how dare you like him?” Kind of preposterous right?

          LOL The Young Turks Cenk Uygur ROFL really? That’s hilarious all by it’s self. You’ve really gotta step up your trolling skills. Not linking to TYT would help you greatly. You’ve gotta find someone people actually take seriously.

          GOProud spokesman spanked him pretty hard when he filled in for Ed. That could possibly be the last time we see him fill in, it was pretty disastrous. Oh and another little hint….nobody takes media matters seriously either.

          Well I hope that helps with your trolling carry on.

    • Anonymous

      Who left the asylum unlocked?

      “I Glen Beck insane.” – Glenn Beck trolls as ‘crazy’ Damon341….huh interesting.

      “What a flip flopper,” – Glenn Beck trolls as a Burger King employee?

      “He’s the original spin city” – Glenn Beck the firstest first ever!

      I do agree with you that Palin is credible though, see we can find common ground.

      Your cut and past needs some work though. Unless you actually wrote that mash up of silliness. If that’s the case pay more attention in your English class.

  • zeus

    yes, the only thing that can save us is our collective imaginary friend. grow up! santa claus is not real.

  • zeus

    yes, the only thing that can save us is our collective imaginary friend. grow up! santa claus is not real.

  • damon341

    Sorry I meant to say..Is Glen beck insane? What a fruitcake!

  • damon341

    Sorry I meant to say..Is Glen beck insane? What a fruitcake!

  • Matt C Rose

    Wow. . .
    I mean wow. . .
    Terror indeed.

    Palin and her friends have bragged for a few years now about putting fear into Democrats.

    Now Palin and her people are afraid that someone point out the words that she has used. How terrible. Really people should not be made to hear their own words repeated back to them.

    Meanwhile, those wimpy liberals. Just because people are throwing rocks through their windows, showing up at debates with guns displayed, and shooting them and their children – now they’re going to start whining. Damn whiney liberals why can’t they stop whining about having their friends and their children shot to death.

  • Matt C Rose

    The “truth” is that Democrats, their supporters and their children are being shot.

    Since the right wing blogs fear the truth more than anything, my post will be deleted shortly. But remember cowards, you’re afraid of my words more than we are afraid of your guns.

  • Jamie

    One problem, no evidence of the God you believe in existing.

    One day people are going to wake up to the tragedy that is claiming peace in the name of one God. That people in politics have now and always have wielded popular “faiths” as a means of painting the bleakest of pictures, we go to war in the name of these fairy tales, suppress knowledge and sacrifice our future.

    This nation more then ever needs to wake the f*#k up.

  • Jamie

    One problem, no evidence of the God you believe in existing.

    One day people are going to wake up to the tragedy that is claiming peace in the name of one God. That people in politics have now and always have wielded popular “faiths” as a means of painting the bleakest of pictures, we go to war in the name of these fairy tales, suppress knowledge and sacrifice our future.

    This nation more then ever needs to wake the f*#k up.

  • Doggerel

    When I got to the end I suddenly I thought I was reading The Onion.

  • Alborn

    I am sick of all this generzation about the American people and what they think and feel. I for one believe in individual responsibility. I am not influenced by someone else’s comments. I do my own research and wait for facts before coming to a conclusion. That may take a long time. What I do know is that must of you friends and neighbors and family are not angry we are disgusted with the way the politicians treat our country citizens and the constitution as meaningless. And we are determined to make BO a one term president at the ballot box. There is nothing he can do to get our votes back. Period. No matter what the media wants to think.

    • T Miller

      You can be sick and tired all you want, The only reason you are sick and tired is because we have a Black President, No I know the first thing one would love to cry is racism, No what I am saying that the truth is that you guys just can’t stand the fact that he is a black is in the white house so be truthful to yourself, set yourself free, and you will feel much better, b/c it sound like you have a lot of anger..

  • Doggerel

    Oh my god. Now I’m reading the comments! It must be The Onion!

  • Bob Moobs

    I’m ashamed that right-leaning peace lovers are being demonized as inciting hate and terror. No one has worked more tirelessly to unite this country than conservatives. Our message of love, tolerance and compassion have been received with deaf ears by the democrats who are constantly waging war and making scapegoats out of muslims and even ordinary americans who oppose their pro-corporate agenda. We must work tirelessly to get our message of love and tolerance out to the masses via Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, Sarah Palin, Sean Hannity, and Glenn Beck. Let truth be a guiding light in these oppressive times.

    • damon341

      Nice try but no cigar!

      • Bob Moobs

        I’m being dead serious here Damon. We’re trying to bring the left into the age of love and reason but they’re being stubborn and refuse to join us. If the left would listen to more FOX news, it would be very clear that our message of compassion is a beacon of light and hope.

  • Caligulove

    Ha ha, incredibly funny. A “patriot” kills a democrat, and of course the Left is to blame.

  • Caligulove

    Ha ha, incredibly funny. A “patriot” kills a democrat, and of course the Left is to blame.

  • AdjectiveAnimal

    I can’t help but notice that this site’s moderators seem to have no interest in dissenting opinion.. dismissing anyone who disagrees with them as trolls, asses, monkeys, etc. Why not just discuss why you think they’re wrong, instead of deleting their comments and then insulting them? Wouldn’t that be the right thing to do?

    • DisturbingBehavior

      Because the internet is like a high school, but worse as everybody can speak anonymously without regard for their comments.
      There have been many others who have come here in the past and we’ve discussed things in a civil manner. Many here disagree on specific issues, but most seek less government interference in their lives.
      If it wasn’t for others trying to come here and antagonize those they view as enemies, the majority of the last few topics would have less than 20 comments, a few pointing out fallacies in the political blame game, but many expressing their sympathy for those who suffered for this tragedy. It’s unusual that many of these posts get over 20 comments, but in the last 2 days there are several over 50, if not 100 comments due to antagonists who only come for some sick twisted game.
      Basically, I’m not posting on leftwing blog sites to stir up controversy, don’t bring it here.

  • AdjectiveAnimal

    I can’t help but notice that this site’s moderators seem to have no interest in dissenting opinion.. dismissing anyone who disagrees with them as trolls, asses, monkeys, etc. Why not just discuss why you think they’re wrong, instead of deleting their comments and then insulting them? Wouldn’t that be the right thing to do?

  • Nad

    if ur sticking up for SP; u must be being paid by her or a staunch repugnant-republican! she has a LOT to do with this mess. She’s just trying to cop out of it.

  • KeninMontana

    I was wondering how long it would take for something along this line to come out. http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2011/01/jared_loughner_alleged_shooter.php

  • KeninMontana

    I was wondering how long it would take for something along this line to come out. http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2011/01/jared_loughner_alleged_shooter.php

  • KeninMontana

    I was wondering how long it would take for something along this line to come out. http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2011/01/jared_loughner_alleged_shooter.php

  • KeninMontana

    I was wondering how long it would take for something along this line to come out. http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2011/01/jared_loughner_alleged_shooter.php

  • Anonymous

    Oh wow, OK that makes a lot of sense dude.

    http://www.anon-tools.it.tc

  • Anonymous

    Oh wow, OK that makes a lot of sense dude.

    http://www.anon-tools.it.tc

  • Anonymous

    Oh wow, OK that makes a lot of sense dude.

    http://www.anon-tools.it.tc

  • Anonymous

    Oh wow, OK that makes a lot of sense dude.

    http://www.anon-tools.it.tc

  • MM

    Y’all are crazy.

  • Misheffield

    Palin and Beck don’t have the combine IQ of my coffee cup. Shaddup already.

    • Bob Moobs

      I think your grammar is a little off. It’s “combined”.If you’re going to insult the intelligence of Palin and Beck, attention to details will go a long way. For the record, Palin was educated in at least five different colleges in various states. So obviously, she is well educated and well traveled. Beck has read a lot of books so it’s more than obvious that he is really smart. Hope this educates you on these outstanding patriots you think are stupid.

    • Bob Moobs

      I think your grammar is a little off. It’s “combined”.If you’re going to insult the intelligence of Palin and Beck, attention to details will go a long way. For the record, Palin was educated in at least five different colleges in various states. So obviously, she is well educated and well traveled. Beck has read a lot of books so it’s more than obvious that he is really smart. Hope this educates you on these outstanding patriots you think are stupid.

    • Rshill7

      And you do???

      Aaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahaha!

  • Anonymous

    Is doing the right thing lost on the conservatives? You can be hyperbolic about the issue as conservatives tend to do and claim this means liberals are going to take your rights away which is silly. Or you can remember that your parents raised you better then this and all the talk of shooting, reloading and “targeting” Democrats as if they are some sort of enemy is foolish. Yes it’s within your rights to say these things but the talk has gotten out of hand and it’s no shock to anyone that deranged people could interpret this kind of toxic talk as a call to arms.

    This is not a Liberal or Conservative issue, it’s a decency issue.

    • Bob Moobs

      Of course conservatives are doing the right thing. We’re not the right-wing for being wrong. If you can detach yourself from your partisanship, you will clearly see we are within reason on every issue that affects americans on a daily basis. If democrats had any sense of patriotism, you wouldn’t be questioning us. You would agree, without argument and adopt our point of views. It’s all about being independent and having diverse ideas. Conservatism is decency defined.

    • Bob Moobs

      Of course conservatives are doing the right thing. We’re not the right-wing for being wrong. If you can detach yourself from your partisanship, you will clearly see we are within reason on every issue that affects americans on a daily basis. If democrats had any sense of patriotism, you wouldn’t be questioning us. You would agree, without argument and adopt our point of views. It’s all about being independent and having diverse ideas. Conservatism is decency defined.

  • nanibold

    She says that she hates violence and hates war. She speaks of truth and love and God.

    At the same time, she uses war metaphors to describe common political scenarios. She is a staunch advocate of military action against other countries, or fuzzy groups of people. She opposes weapons restrictions at every turn. She tells her political followers to “reload”, and then publishes a map with crosshairs identifying her enemies.

    And then, one of them ends up being killed by a nutcase with a hand-held automatic weapon.

    She cannot seriously claim to be offended when people give her a hard time about all this.

    • Bob Moobs

      Look, I’m getting really tired of people attacking Sarah. This is a woman who is trying to bring reason to an unreasonable society. It’s well known that she has fought tirelessly for our rights. She is a free speech advocate, championing transparency in government. She wants to free us from over-regulation which led to the financial problems we have faced in the last two years. She gave alaska many years of diligent service with no regard to her well-being. And she’s helping to educate americans how to be self sufficient with our god given resources. Most americans don’t know how to hunt so she takes time out of her busy day to show us how to feed ourselves. Lay off.

  • disenchanted

    Left/Right – What a waste of energy. Who’s right, who’s wrong. Instead of pointing fingers at each other, we should be looking at who’s pulling the strings. Both parties have been usurped and represent very little of what made this country great in the past. As long as we don’t move past that, it’s over. I think everyone could agree that the political climate has moved past civil, by both sides. You know why? Because as long as one candidate is “better” than the other, they’ll get a vote. So the politicians point fingers and their supporters do the exact same thing, while the office holders laugh all the way to the bank.

    We are all suckers.

    • Anonymous

      Exactly that’s why you should get on board with the Tea Party, hear hear!

  • disenchanted

    Left/Right – What a waste of energy. Who’s right, who’s wrong. Instead of pointing fingers at each other, we should be looking at who’s pulling the strings. Both parties have been usurped and represent very little of what made this country great in the past. As long as we don’t move past that, it’s over. I think everyone could agree that the political climate has moved past civil, by both sides. You know why? Because as long as one candidate is “better” than the other, they’ll get a vote. So the politicians point fingers and their supporters do the exact same thing, while the office holders laugh all the way to the bank.

    We are all suckers.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QSIMIELSN7JAIWGVNKHCJ7L5OU Ryan G

    In this message I leave my political views aside and just speak my heart, this is a situation where I care not who I offend because what I say if you are offended you could be part of the problem.
    Murder has become a problem not just in the past couple of years but since the earliest days of man. Never should a murder take place where anyone of us should ever become numb to the fact that we all share one world at one time together.
    When it comes down to it, there are people, and I am guilty of wishing they were never born and the things they say make me sick, but God has seen these people and he loves them, so am I commissioned to do by my Lord and savior Jesus Christ. “Love your God with all your heart soul body and mind, and love your neighbor as yourself, i tell you this is the greatest commandment.”
    See we can’t love each other if we don’t love ourselves, and we can’t truly love God if we don’t try to love his people. I am not here to push my theology on anyone but there is power in this teaching. Conservative or liberal, left or right, does not matter, we are all human beings ” that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”Declaration of Independence.
    Where is the happiness people? I pray each day and I pray for those who suffer from cancer, those who are suffering through terrible things, and now I have to pray greatly for our country. America today is not what is represented to my grandfather when he gave up everything he had, his family his job, to get on a boat to come over her to work for the thought of having a family and giving them a better life and education than he received.
    Now we face a time of great uncertainty and I fear not for myself because I have my faith in Jesus Christ that no matter what comes I know, I don’t just believe, but I know that through him I fear nothing except my loved ones who yet to know God.
    We have men and women defending our country over seas and yet we sit her and watch as our country is being attacked from within.
    Where is the nationalism we had after 9/11/2001 where not matter what we all stood together? Where is the love for each other. I agree with Glenn Beck to a certain degree we need to Change ourselves and begin to pray. For we are in a time and place where our faith in God, and the righteousness of our hearts need to stand up and say SOMETHING about whats going and stop sitting by silently as the corruption and political crap continues.
    We need to stop worrying about political correctness, we need to stop worrying about offending people of different races for the pure fact that it doesn’t matter anymore we are all Americans, we are all Children of God and we have a obligation to stand up and say we will takes this no more, even it costs us our lives. For I would much rather die for righteousness, than to live and on my conscience and on my heart that when faced with chaos I didn’t say anything. For saying nothing is just as bad as do the evil yourself.
    God bless you all, and God bless America for in these up coming years we need to seek God out and ask him for guidance. For this is still One Nation under God, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all.
    Ryan

  • MeatyBeatyBigBouncy

    keep usin’ that illusion, beck! The echo chamber your head is in, is clearly your own
    #ss.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QSIMIELSN7JAIWGVNKHCJ7L5OU Ryan G

    In this message I leave my political views aside and just speak my heart, this is a situation where I care not who I offend because what I say if you are offended you could be part of the problem.
    Murder has become a problem not just in the past couple of years but since the earliest days of man. Never should a murder take place where anyone of us should ever become numb to the fact that we all share one world at one time together.
    When it comes down to it, there are people, and I am guilty of wishing they were never born and the things they say make me sick, but God has seen these people and he loves them, so am I commissioned to do by my Lord and savior Jesus Christ. “Love your God with all your heart soul body and mind, and love your neighbor as yourself, i tell you this is the greatest commandment.”
    See we can’t love each other if we don’t love ourselves, and we can’t truly love God if we don’t try to love his people. I am not here to push my theology on anyone but there is power in this teaching. Conservative or liberal, left or right, does not matter, we are all human beings ” that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”Declaration of Independence.
    Where is the happiness people? I pray each day and I pray for those who suffer from cancer, those who are suffering through terrible things, and now I have to pray greatly for our country. America today is not what is represented to my grandfather when he gave up everything he had, his family his job, to get on a boat to come over her to work for the thought of having a family and giving them a better life and education than he received.
    Now we face a time of great uncertainty and I fear not for myself because I have my faith in Jesus Christ that no matter what comes I know, I don’t just believe, but I know that through him I fear nothing except my loved ones who yet to know God.
    We have men and women defending our country over seas and yet we sit her and watch as our country is being attacked from within.
    Where is the nationalism we had after 9/11/2001 where not matter what we all stood together? Where is the love for each other. I agree with Glenn Beck to a certain degree we need to Change ourselves and begin to pray. For we are in a time and place where our faith in God, and the righteousness of our hearts need to stand up and say SOMETHING about whats going and stop sitting by silently as the corruption and political crap continues.
    We need to stop worrying about political correctness, we need to stop worrying about offending people of different races for the pure fact that it doesn’t matter anymore we are all Americans, we are all Children of God and we have a obligation to stand up and say we will takes this no more, even it costs us our lives. For I would much rather die for righteousness, than to live and on my conscience and on my heart that when faced with chaos I didn’t say anything. For saying nothing is just as bad as do the evil yourself.
    God bless you all, and God bless America for in these up coming years we need to seek God out and ask him for guidance. For this is still One Nation under God, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all.
    Ryan

  • Sarah Lover

    He must be getting some on the side. It will bring the re-pubic down..

  • K2rampKathy

    Palin for president 2012! The more they go after her, the more we’ll stand up for her.

  • Atheist

    Stupid conservatives and your fairy tale god

    • Anonymous

      Speaking as a person who is also a non-believer and is a regular on this site, you betray yourself to be just as shallow-thinking, reactionary, and cherry-picking with your facts as you would label conservatives. The term “religious right,” is not in any way proof that fundamentalism or religious activism has a home only in the U.S. “right-wing. It is a common discussion amongst the “left,” and “Democrats,” whether or not to disavow Atheists, the non-religious, and religious minorities and to make a play for the Christian voters.

      Let’s not forget that the champion of the Fundamentalist movement in the 1920s, the one that played a major role up to and in the Scopes trial, was William Jennings Bryan. Bryan was a Secretary of State for President Wilson, ran for president three times and an unabashed member of the “left.” There is also a large portion of the Democratic party identifying as Catholic from urban population centers.

      You are anything but a Freethinker, and you make me ashamed to be associated with you in the minds of anyone, including the religious.

      Peace,
      Dan, the resident religion critic, Anti-Statist, and Austrian Economist.

      • Rshill7

        “The Fool has said in his heart there is no God.”

        (God)

        I’ll say a prayer to God for both of you atheists, and you can pray to your navel. Ask it for some belly lint mkay?

        • Anonymous

          If I had a penny for every time I’ve had that contemptible little piece of……quoted at me I could put Bill scriptureGates’ wealth to shame.

          Here’s one for you,
          “Hands that work are better than lips that pray.”
          (Robert Green Ingersoll)

          You go pray to your god while looking down your nose at those who you are commanded to love by your messiah. I’ll be busy actually taking productive steps to better my own life.

          • Rshill7

            Ok comrade. But you are wrong.

            Everything from nothing? Random processes? Hilarious.

            • Anonymous

              Comrade? Nice snarky way to try and portray me as a Marxist/Leninist/Trotskyist/Stalinist, but you couldn’t be more wrong.

              I’m wrong, am I? Have faith healers started working in hospitals, training doctors, and restoring amputee limbs? Sorry, chief, but reliance on empirical evidence for deities was abandoned by respectable thinkers long ago, and rational “proofs,” were done away with by Kant, who was himself a believer. Whether you admit it or not, your belief is an example of Fideism, and you have 0 room to claim either of us has final knowledge on the matter. Just because you believe something does not make it through, nor does that make it knowledge.

              Where did I say “everything from nothing?” Where did I say “random processes?” You are straw-manning science and trying to put words in my mouth, but my arguments on this issue are well documented on this website and in my Discus history, neither of those “claims” are ones which I have asserted or made a case for.

              Even if you understood the scientific positions well enough to make a coherent attempt at refutation, falsifying present scientific understandings is not a positive proof of YOUR claim.

              You express your own pitiable ignorance, mock others for what you falsely perceive through that haze of misinformation and laugh. You are the worst kind of believer in these kinds of discussions, you behave as a belligerent reactionary when one doesn’t share in your inherited belief systems and arrogantly proclaim yourself a greater mind than the world’s best scientists implicitly with your mockery.

              Neither of Atheist, nor I were addressing you initially, you inserted yourself in this with your self-righteous remark which contributed nothing but a shallow self-serving reaffirmation of your, likely, shaky beliefs.. You, for whatever reason, couldn’t let well enough alone that others didn’t believe the same thing as you (the horror).

              Now run along to a William Lane Craig site or some other apologist to quote at me like it’s your own material without ever asking “why, if god is not the author of confusion, is there a need for apologists at all?”

              • Rshill7

                I don’t apologize for apologetics. I came to it the hard way. You are part of the politification of science. Evolution and global-warming.

                Can a cell make protein without a ribosome? No? How do you explain that the ribosome is made of protein? Which came first the cell or the ribosome? What you have in a cell is irreducibly complex.

                Furthermore, I’ll bet you believe that a single strand of DNA encodes more information than the Library of Congress. I do too. You believe there are such things as invisible microbes that can wipe out millions unseen. I do too. You believe that the unimaginable complexity and staggering precision of the entire universe and all of it’s contents came from nothing, AND, that all of that/this occurred as a random process. I do not.

                Touche’. Who’s the fruitcake? Next Christmas just give yourself away.

                • http://doorwaybuck.com CM Sackett

                  –reflecting to self– “Ah, the beauty-n-terror of being HUMAN… knowing so much, while even yet, knowing so little.”

                  Rshill, I just posted a whole-hearted “OUTSTANDING POST!!” on one of your honest declarations (about Palin having a target plastered on everything she has and is…). And to me, it was just that, OUTSTANDING!

                  Your honesty (as I’ve seen it, anyway) is one of the treasures of your postings.

                  However, I must, and WILL SAY… you are DEAD-WRONG about Daniel (his core, heart… and potential for great things WITHIN THE KINGDOM you and I call ‘Home’).

                  Disagree with his view of God?

                  DAMN STRAIGHT!

                  Disagree with some of his (still developing) ‘conclusions’ about governments, governance, and mankind in general?

                  HAVE MANY TIMES (and shall again, I’m sure).

                  …BUT, Daniel is one of the MOST HONEST, REASON-SEEKING, and POTENTIALLY POWERFUL “sons of God” this old battle-scarred warrior of the King has ever come across, so help me, God.

                  Will he become another C.S. Lewis (read ‘Surprised by JOY’ sometime)?

                  I have no clue.

                  But who he is, and as he is TODAY… I will stand WITH HIM as a witness to his unflinching honesty (even with himself), overall character and integrity, and potential for GOOD.

                  …as I would with YOU (from what I’ve seen and read thus far of your mind and character).

                  CM Sackett

                • Rshill7

                  Yes, I love C.S. Lewis, who came to Christ kicking and screaming after coming to the realization. He could no longer argue against the truth. I’ve read everything I could get my hands on by him…even the screwtape letters. I think he’s brilliant. Mere Christianity is superbly deep but nonetheless, and even more so because of it, still superb.

                  Many people think that Christianity is akin to intellectual suicide. It is most definitely not. I have seen zero evidence for evolution and mountains of evidence against it.

                  Many people spend more time planning for a picnic than in contmplating the most pround question there is: Is this it, or is this not it? regardless of which it is, there is one decision that works either way.

                • Anonymous

                  I’m truly touched, and sincerely appreciate that, Mr. Sackett.

                  Your writing is on my “To-Read list,” by the way.

                  Peace.

                • Rshill7

                  “…BUT, Daniel is one of the MOST HONEST, REASON-SEEKING, and POTENTIALLY POWERFUL “sons of God” this old battle-scarred warrior of the King has ever come across, so help me, God.” (CM)

                  “I will stand WITH HIM as a witness to his unflinching honesty…” (CM)

                  Yeah right. With respect sir. I cannot disagree any stronger than I now do.

                • Anonymous

                  “You believe that the unimaginable complexity and staggering precision of the entire universe and all of its contents came from nothing, AND, that all of that /this occurred as a random process.”

                  Could you possibly me more arrogant? Again, you’re making assumptions and telling ME what I believe. It’s a small wonder there is a common fear of your ilk wanting to legislate religion so you can tell us what we believe through law.

                  I’ll clear it up right now for you.

                  I don’t accept the Anthropogenic part of AGW. Does the climate change? Sure.
                  Is it humanities fault? I sincerely doubt it.
                  Can humanity do anything about it? I sincerely doubt it.
                  Should we destroy every economy on the planet in vain attempts? Hell no.

                  Do I claim to know what was before the Big Bang? No, given how we understand time, the notion of “before” is meaningless anyway.

                  Do I claim to know what caused the Big Bang, or what it came from/if it came from anything? No, I do not.

                  Do I claim to know which, if any, of the theories of Abiogenesis are correct? No, I do not. I do know that experiments have demonstrated self-replicating RNA in natural conditions.

                  What do I claim knowledge on? Very little that has not been evidenced through, experimentation, observation, or demonstrable reliability. The age of the universe has been calculated through Mathematics and physical observation, as well as the expansion of the universe. The Big Bang theory predicted the cosmic background radiation and is consistent with the rest of our present understanding of physics in a way that is not falsified.

                  Is Abiogenesis correct or accurate? I don’t know. What I do know, though, is that Evolution has even more evidence than the Big Bang theory. I also know the scientific method and that if science ever understands the origin of life that it was necessarily NOT by magic incantation like the Bible says. I also know that throughout all of human history we have witnessed a constant progression in explaining the universe through NATURAL processes and means, no supernaturalism required thus far.

                  I also know that if there was any, and I mean ANY, objective POSITIVE evidence for the god claims made in your Bible, it would be all over every form of media within a day. The fact that apologists and their acolytes like you are still forced to nothing more than trying (and failing) to tear down science instead is just another way of saying “we still don’t have any evidence.”

                  I also know, that essentially every rational “proof,” of a creator entity (nevermind the Biblical one) are from pre-Enlightenment years. All of the best god arguments through Reason were done away with by Hume and Kant after Non-Physicalism became the religious norm.

                  Also, irreducible complexity has been obliterated both in court and in the academic arena every single time creationists have tried to present examples.

                  Would you happen to be Right4life from Hotair.com? Your manner is strikingly similar.

                  Continue with the accusations and assumptions about my political beliefs and straw-manning my position on metaphysics, you schmuck.

                • Rshill7

                  “Schmuck”. I like it. I think that evolved from the dreaded duck if darwin is not mistaken.

                  “survival of the fittest” Which ones survive? “The fittest”. Which ones are the fittest? “Those that survive”. oooh, what a pretty circle. Weeeeeee!

                  I wonder if being killed by a flash-flood, an earthquake, a tsunami, a tornado, a hurricane, a mudslide, a bolt of lightening, an avalanche, or a volcano is adaptive or maladaptive :-)

                  Naaa, I usually stick to my hometown newspaper surrounded by the great lakes.

                  And CM, I have no history with the atheist guy. If I was needlessly harsh, gauche, or overly disrespectful, I apologize. The lies of evolution raise many flags and much of my ire sir. Apreciative of the kudos you have bestowed. SALUTE!

                • Anonymous

                  “A triangle has three sides.” What has three sides? “A triangle.” What does a triangle have? “three sides.” Oh, what a pretty circle.

                  Taking a simplified and overly used concept and restating it does not constitute circular logic any more than my restating the analytic, “a triangle has three sides.”

                  Regarding natural disasters: It’s crap luck and/or poor adaptation. Surviving those on the other hand may be indicative of an advantageous adaptation OR just good luck.

                  ex. Species A goes extinct in an environment where food is scarce year round and a natural disaster (disease or what you listed) wiped out the remaining food supply = crap luck & extinction event.

                  ex. Species B & C survive the event by different prey or being omnivorous. Ice Age hits. Species B dies from cold or it’s eggs die; extinction. Species C is the feathered daughter species of B, feathers are a MUCH better insulator than scales and hair allowing it’s own survival and insulation of it’s eggs; Species C survives Extinction Event B.

                  ex. Species D and Species E live in an environment and share the same species of prey. Species C is the digitigrade daughter species of Species B (which is plantigrade). Species C has a clear advantage in hunting, leaving a shortage for competing Species B. Species C thrives while Species B suffers. Species B migrates, changes feeding, or reduces in population/goes extinct.

                  There are fossil transitions of feathers amongst dinosaurs which aided in survival in exactly that situation. There is also fossil transition evidence of the evolution of digitigrade limbs of Caniforms and Feliforms, making their running faster and more efficient than their plantigrade relatives.

                • Rshill7

                  Wow, where did you get such an enviable collection of 1970’s National Geographic?

                  I hear evolutionists claim all kinds of evidence and all kinds of ridicule for the creationists. All I see is the ridicule. Parrots mimicking older parrots. They assert all kinds of things and repeat the lie loud and often. It doesn’t help show anything.

                  You have shown nothing, least of all an original thought regarding this topic at least. Evolution texts are vacuous. Michael Denton’s book “Evolution, A Theory in Crisis” is pretty good. It is not vacuous and not the 70’s geographic you appear to cite. Singularly unimpressive, but quite wordy.

                  Nothingness and ridicule. That’s what evolutionary texts contain. They start with a conclusion that creation is impossible and work backwards to try and prove how it happened. At least intelligent design texts utilize the scientific method based on that which can actually be observed. What is observed fits the intelligent design model perfectly. Thanks for the discourse sir.

                • Anonymous

                  Judging from how you opened this conversation, your ability to grasp simplified concepts, how quickly you dragged the conversation into insults, your demonstrable lack of trying to understand any position other than your own, and all around ignorance this does not qualify in any meaningful sense as discourse. This was an over-patient person talking to a wall.

                  Go ahead and claim a century-long global scientist conspiracy! That one never gets old.

                  Peace.

                • Rshill7

                  Right. You present nothin, I notice the nothing and so you must resort to the next tactic. Youa djust you ass-cot, refill your ivory pipe and pronounce incapapble of grasping nothing as if it were something. You are just like every evolutionist I’ve ever read or encountered. You ARE one of the best at filling a box completely full of nothing. But you have many mentors to choose from in that arena of nothing. Peace.

                • Rshill7

                  “…All of the best god arguments through Reason were done away with by Hume and Kant after Non-Physicalism became the religious norm.

                  Also, irreducible complexity has been obliterated both in court and in the academic arena every single time creationists have tried to present examples.”

                  Nice opinion piece Dan. If these “professors”, like yourself, have “done away” with anything, it is this: Common Sense and the Scientific Method.

                • Anonymous

                  I’m not a professor lol, I’m a layman with a curiosity for the scientific responses to metaphysical questions.

                  Common Sense is a fallacy, though, it’s an appeal to common belief. What is common sense to you is clearly not common sense to me. When a speaker appeals to common sense, he is banking on the audience/judges sharing his beliefs or that those groups will ASSUME he means the same things they would.

                  If people can do away with it, it would help the political dialogues greatly because it would be 1 more buzz [phrase] eliminated. Politicians would have to articulate specifically what they mean, rather than get off with “common sense solutions.”

                  The Scientific Method is alive and well, and very often decried by the likes of Conservapedia by it’s other name, Methodological Naturalism. Naturalism is disallowed in religious thinking because gods and miracles necessarily SUPERnatural.

                  David Hume was a Scottish Empiricist philosopher. He’s one of the “3 British Empiricists,” along with John Locke, and eviscerated the Teleological Argument (argument from design).
                  http://stairs.umd.edu/236/hume.html

                  Immanuel Kant was a Prussian Constructivist philosopher. He critiqued Rationalism and crippled or destroyed the Cosmological & Ontological Arguments.
                  http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/kant-metaphysics/#GodRatThe
                  The key phrases are “existence is not a predicate,” and “Highest architect.” He found the Ontological Argument to be begging the question. He found that the Cosmological Argument, at the VERY best could only ever imply the DEIST notion of god. Neither supports any theist conception of a deity.

                • Rshill7

                  To equate the description of a triangle with the circular reasoning of evolutionary theory is pedestrian and silly. Get a car.

                • Anonymous

                  It wasn’t equating a triangle with the scientific theory you belligerent dunce. I was comparing your inane assessment of the childishly simplified and overused synopsis of Evolution to the inanity of arranging an analytic statement in a circular fashion.

                  If you are too slow to understand even that, I’m going to stop bothering with you. I won’t cast pearls before swine, to reference your holy book (see: magic tome).

                • Rshill7

                  belligerant dunce. good evo tactic. nothing. empty suit, parroted vacuousness.

                • Rshill7

                  belligerant dunce. good evo tactic. nothing. empty suit, parroted vacuousness.

                • Rshill7

                  belligerant dunce. good evo tactic. nothing. empty suit, parroted vacuousness.

                • Rshill7

                  Why whatshisname has so much confidence in you is a mystery. You have little class. I don’t see anything praiseworthy in your recent posts sir. Pontidicating blowhard of nuthin’.

                • Rshill7

                  pontificating (correction) typos

                • Rshill7

                  To equate the description of a triangle with the circular reasoning of evolutionary theory is pedestrian and silly. Get a car.

              • Rshill7

                Punctuated Equilibrium. “We cannot see evolution with our eyes because it happens too slowly. We cannot see it in the fossil record because it happens too fast”. That’s kinda’ scientific huh? It’s the comedic side of “science”

                Even Crick, of Watson and Crick said that “life could not and did not evolve on this earth”.

                • Anonymous

                  “Nothing in Biology Makes Sense Except in the Light of Evolution” -Theodosius Dobzhansky, father of modern Genetics

                  I can whip out a bin of quotes too, you silly little man.

                  People like you habitually overplay, mischaracterize, and generally poorly grasp/present concepts in science and their acceptance.

                  Punctuated Equilibrium has been criticized by scientists and Evolution accepting laymen alike for ages and severely hurt Gould’s credibility.

                  If you want to keep overplaying it though, just like Piltdown Man and Nebraska Man, you go right ahead. Those who know better, do.

                • Rshill7

                  So what in your opinion is the driving force of evolution? If it isn’t punctuated equilib…is it mutations, or is it the old darwinian way? Which theory is is your hat-hook today sir?

                • Anonymous

                  Evolution as a Theory, incorporates data from Paleontology, Archeology, Genetics, Taxonomy, Microbiology, etc etc. many different disciplines. It’s not just, “Aha! This one piece is it,” But to put it very simply…

                  To put it very simply,
                  Reproduction with genetic variation + environmental attrition = Evolution.

                  Genetic variation leading to speciation is at the heart of “the old darwinian way,” and Punctuated Equilibrium. PE was just an attempted explanation of why the data points of the fossil records are distributed as they are.

                  Parts of PE were very accurate and enlightening and are expressed elsewhere, others are disregarded as not holding up with the testimony of genetic evidence and observations. Such an example of PE getting it right would be how genetic changes/adaptations spread throughout a population MUCH quicker in populations isolated or on the fringes.

                  As far as disciplines and data go, looking at just the fossil records, to get the full accounting of evidence you have to look at age, location, strata, and morphology/taxonomy if there is an absence of genetic data to sequence. If the data is there, you do all of that + sequencing.

                  In just the genetic data you have evidences in the form of atavistic traits (ex. we have genes for tails, wales have genes for legs, and chickens have genes for teeth), WHICH genes we have in common with which animals, how many genes we have in common with which animals, and the best of them all, Endogenous Retrovirus DNA in a genome shared in both DNA fragment AND location.

                  Then there are the pieces of data which have been observed with our own eyes, namely speciation events (numerous, and different types of speciation) where one species becomes 2 (mother and daughter species) or or more, and significant advantageous and disadvantageous mutations in species within a generation (including us).

                  Speciation: One of the more common types happens in something called “ring species”
                  Mutations: There is a family in Italy found to have a disposition to be incredibly resistant to heart disease and experiments are looking to help treat others. There is a family in germany all with abnormally high muscle density and as a % of their weight, they are helping find ways to treat people with muscular dystrophy.

                  It’s all part of and evidence for Evolution.

                • Rshill7

                  “Reproduction with genetic variation + environmental attrition = Evolution.” (DAN)

                  Sthay, that’sth math isthn’t it? It’s pretty. Pretty unproven that is. You’d be a great advertising guy for stuff that doesn’t work very well. You know, there’s a sucker born every minute?

                  “PE was just an attempted explanation of why the data points of the fossil records are distributed as they are.” (DAN)

                  Oh, the DATA points of the fossil record…you mean as in: Data point 1. Nuthin’ Data point 2. Nuthin’ Data point 3. Nuthin’ etc. forever ad nauseum? Got it. Great stuff.

                  “If the data is there, you do all of that + sequencing”

                  Right…if the data is there. It ain’t though.

                  “how many genes we have in common with which animals, and the best of them all, Endogenous Retrovirus DNA in a genome shared in both DNA fragment AND location.” (DAN)

                  Common design features by a common designer sir. One can also tell a Picasso from a Rinosso and Ford from a Chevy. So far you’ve said Nuthin’, just like the evo books do. Oh you sound real intelligent, just like the evo profs do, but they never say anything. That takes incredible skill. Are you copying and pasting some rambling evo?

                  “It’s all part and evidence for evolution.” (DAN)

                  It is? What is? That’s the longest diatribe on nuthin’ I’ve heard today sir. I am trying to respect you, but you are a spent light bulb, ie., but still, a vacuum of nothing’.

                  You may have described micro-evolution a little. But macro(?) Molecules to man, fish to philosopher? Hell no! You’ve got Nuthin’. Here’s what I came away with your eloquent wordsmanship: Nuthin’.

                • Anonymous

                  You’ve displayed 0 respect throughout this entire exchange, disregard out of hand anything put to you, completely ignore other points, and fall back on derision.

                  I’m waiting for the completely predictable response by you to my other posts which respond with likewise derisive language with some kind of word-shaped bile amounting to nothing more then, “AHA! SEE!?”

                  If you’re still stuck in the nonsense apologetics and dated propaganda of “macro vs micro,” then congratulations, you’re beyond help.

                  Good day, try not to choke to death on your own tongue.

                • Rshill7

                  Yes, you’re a prince. The complimentor/moderator earlier has also lost my repect because of your perfromance. You have neither proven nor shown anything at all, notr have you gained my respect other than that of a BS-er extraordinaire.

                  You are wearing no clothes and I am the only one to notice it today. That get’s your goat doesn’t it? Does it also get your chaff? Do you often “win” arguments like you claim others do that you quote? I don’t think they’ve won anything. They spout pure nothingness and so do you. I am unimpressed. You might impress some who don’t know what you’re NOT talking about and they might say, hmmm, and stroke their beards and nod. That’s what you did when you read your mentor’s BS isn’t it? Polly want a cracker? Good day Sir.

                • Anonymous

                  You’ve displayed 0 respect throughout this entire exchange, disregard out of hand anything put to you, completely ignore other points, and fall back on derision.

                  I’m waiting for the completely predictable response by you to my other posts which respond with likewise derisive language with some kind of word-shaped bile amounting to nothing more then, “AHA! SEE!?”

                  If you’re still stuck in the nonsense apologetics and dated propaganda of “macro vs micro,” then congratulations, you’re beyond help.

                  Good day, try not to choke to death on your own tongue.

                • Rshill7

                  And if transitional species were the order of the day, where are they? Even darwin himself said that if the evidence were not in the fossil record then his theory would be in serious question…to put it mildly. Why do you think they came up with punctuated equilibrium? That’s why, because the fossil record says No, loudly and firmly. There would be many more transitional fossils than not, yet, where are they? Fossils are always of fully formed, fully functional animals. Never have there been a half-wing half fishscale fin has there?

                  Also, when the atmosphere was supposedly anaerobic, how did bacteria or single celled organisms survive that? With out atmosphere they would be destroyed in the sun’s ultra-violet rays in about 20 seconds. I observed this in the lab and timed it. I think 27 seconds was the record. They must have been hiding under a rock for a few eons huh?

                • Anonymous

                  Ok, no offense, but this Darwin line got old the 80th time I heard it.

                  Darwin personally made the prediction of finding a transitional form between dinosaurs and birds.

                  It was found in his lifetime, called Archeopteryx Lithographica. Among too many other factors to list, the unfused wing-fingers was a key feature predicted by Darwin.

                  Again, PE wasn’t excusing the fossil record, it was an attempt to explain the chronological concentration of morphologies.

                  I WOULD get into why EVERY living animal is technically a “transitional form,” but every time I’ve done that in the past it turned into a quagmire that made me want to shoot myself to escape.

                  And yes, one part of the several best supported theories of Abiogenesis is being deep deep under water. Often times in proximity with volcanic underwater vents. There are still numerous theories for Abiogenesis, though, so there is no clear undeniable consensus so the proper answer to “what is the origin of life?” from a science stand point is “there are theories, but we don’t know.”

                  The absence of a natural explanation is not positive evidence for the supernatural. There is just as much evidence that the invisible monkey faeries living in my shoes created life as any religion’s god.

                • Rshill7

                  “It was found in his lifetime, called Archeopteryx Lithographica. Among too many other factors to list, the unfused wing-fingers was a key feature predicted by Darwin.”

                  I can’t believe you actually wrote this sir. Are you kidding? Really? This is a fully formed, fully functiuonal bird. What the hell is your problem? Your posts about evolution are paragraghs of nuthin’. You, like the evo books pontificate for a few hundred pages, and sound as intelligent as you can, but it does NOT hide the fact that your box of evolution (macro that is) is completely empty.

                  OMG have you been brainwashed with a whole lot of nuthin’. Reread some of your stuff here on this subject. Evolution proponents try to outintelligent the vocabulary, the this the that…they ramble…they ridicule…but what they continue to present, is a big box of nothing whatsoever. And you not only fall for it, you envision a living thing in the empty box and like the people who admired the emporers new clothes, you, in like fashion admire this empty box of nuthin’.

                  Thanks…for nuthin’.

                • Rshill7

                  Here it is the 81st time. I would guess that you’ve never been able to deal with it at any time. I think you need a bigger clip. One that holds more BS. MAybe after you heard it 82 times you’ll realize you are being a missionary for lies and nuthin’.

                • Rshill7

                  We have the empty tomb of Christ. We have the transformed lives of the Apostles from chickens to fearless (people don’t willingly die for a lie they know is a lie) and we have hundreds of eyewitness accounts of the miracles and the resurrection of Jesus. How many eyewitnesses can your shoe fairy boast?

      • http://doorwaybuck.com CM Sackett

        Mornin’ Daniel.

        And truly (as you know, my friend) God’s Best to you, this day,
        Sackett, the resident crusty old soldier of the Cross… who’ll call a man an S.O.B. if he is one… but is proud to be surrendered to the King.

        • Anonymous

          I’ll need that today, if he exists, I begin one of my math courses today. :P

          The reaction is interesting to say the least, I call out and criticize a stereotypical leftist atheist and in turn am called a navel-gazer by some smug example of holier than thou named Rshill7

          Good morning back to you, and bravo with all the troll bans.

      • las

        “It is a common discussion amongst the “left,” and “Democrats,” whether or not to disavow Atheists, the non-religious, and religious minorities and to make a play for the Christian voters.

        I’d agree that they make a play for Christian voters. The trouble is that they can only get the Liberal and Leftist Christians… you know the Dorothy Day lovers like Jim Wallace, who I remember from years ago when “social justice” was the meme du jour. That’s the “christian” crowd they’re after… compliant and statist. They have next to zero traction among conservative evangelicals. Catholics and Jews are voting Democrats in overwhelming numbers like 80% if I remember correctly. Catholics have yet to wake up, if ever, while Jews are still struggling with self-hatred, obsessing about the last holocaust while denying the present holocaust at their doorstep in the form of Islamic Jihad and stealth Jihad being welcomed in with open arms by this very Obama administration. Even too many Republicans and conservatives are clueless on this issue.

        Dan, I’d like to see your evidence that there is a move to disavow Atheists, the non-religious. The non-religious, and to a lesser degree, the atheist (Atheist.. oops)are the backbone of the Democrat Party. It’s why with Liberals and the Left, there are no absolutes… it’s a “living” movement, always morphing so absolutes are to a liberal what a cross is to Dracula.

        • Anonymous

          Lol, they aren’t complete relativists. Remember, they threat their own personal beliefs as the objective absolutes. Relativism only seems to come up when other people’s beliefs are the status quo.

          Action isn’t often taken to drive away the atheists and non-religious for many reasons. Sometimes it’s because they feel they would lose more than they would gain in such a ploy.

          My evidence is largely word-of-mouth, because such action is rarely taken. If the word-of-mouth from [very] “leftist” atheists who attend local Democrat party meetings can be trusted, though, it comes up fairly regularly. I can only imagine because they remember the electoral maps from the days when the evangelical south went happily to Democrats, like Carter.

          I wouldn’t consider the non-devout or the religious who aren’t regular church goers to be “non-religious,” as some might. As for % of ideologies made of atheists, the “left” might be a higher % than Conservatives, but higher than both is probably Libertarianism. That’s a guess based on personal experience in dealing with people, not statistics, so it might be skewed since I prefer Libertarian Forums.

          I can’t list every place I’m drawing this admitted hear-say and guesswork from, but one of them is The Non-Prophets, a podcast by the people who do The Atheist Experience, a Texas public broadcasting show. Some of them are hard “leftists” and active members of their local Democrat Party. I think it came up when they were talking about Ann Coulter’s “Godless.”

          • las

            Heh heh heh… your first line made me laugh. You took the words from my mouth.

            Carter, peanut farmer evangelical, and Christians flocked en-mass and abandoned their conservatism. Ah… simpler times I guess, but I could never figure it out.

            “I wouldn’t consider the non-devout or the religious who aren’t regular church goers to be “non-religious,” as some might.” You’re absolutely correct on that. I was not implying that. Ah Language, an imperfect tool that.

            On stats… the true left is really low in percentages. Twice as many Americans self identify as conservative than liberal. 20% liberal, 40% conservative. There’s the mushy 40% remainder… and if I could be so presumptuous as to assume that if push were to come to shove, that of the remaining 40%, most would identify as conservative. I don’t say this out of prejudice or bias… I say this out of an awareness that people have a default philosophy… and that default is conservative. But the conservative default is beaten out of them by cultural forces of liberalism. It’s like the Joe Publick guy who listens to MSM media, is told what to believe because it’s the “correct” view to have, yet in the back of his mind says to himself, “I don’t really agree with these people, what they say does not sit well with me, but I can’t put my finger on it”. So he goes through the social motions of being a liberal, because he shuns public humiliation, yet in his heart remains conservative. I believe I can dig up information on this, but don’t have it on hand. Oh yeah… that reminds me of a study by the Barna group on differences between liberals and conservatives… very telling… I’ll dig it up. But like you… that’s my personal experience leading to my opinion.

            Your comment about Godless Americans… quite right, in the Dem party it’s a liability to expose in a flamboyant way one’s atheism, especially from such groups. But the back door is wide wide open. It’s a matter of time before they will be received open-arms in the front door… like the SDS, SPLC, Democratic Socialists of America, ACORN and all the other far left “community groups” are now. Partly in thanks to Soros.

            • Anonymous

              I can’t speak for all atheists, or even a portion since it’s not an affirmative position so there’s nothing to rally around politically, but personally I can empathize with atheists fleeing to the Dems, though I’m not one myself. If they buy into the notion of the two-party system, it’s very clear which “side,” views non-believers as destructive, evil, all around dangerous, and/or wholly immoral it’s the “right.” There are also more than a few politicians or groups with influence infatuated with language that rings of legislating religion.

              The other party, though not necessarily embracing the godless (publicly), does not repudiate us with every chance it gets.

              Libertarians don’t take a political position on it, but aren’t viewed by many as a group with any chance.

              So freedom-minded godless tend to gravitate generally away from the GOP and Conservatism to Unaffiliated or Libertarianism.

              Statist Atheists (Statheists) flee to the Democrats without fail.

              That’s my personal subjective take on it, only, but it makes a decent amount of sense to me, never mind the anomalies like Allahpundit from Hotair.com :P

              • las

                Stathiests! ha! love it. Just what we need … more nomenclature.

                While I agree that atheism is not really an affirmative position, it is, however, a cultural norm with growing political clout. Look at various court challenges, the Freedom From Religion Foundation, the Orwelian sounding Military Religious Freedom Foundation, ACLU challenges etc.

                “views non-believers as destructive, evil, all around dangerous, and/or wholly immoral it’s the “right.” There is some, and I will admit that it is used for political ends, but your are engaging a in a bit of hyperbole there doncha think? Ravi Zacharias, a Christian philosopher says something that really puts this in perspective. He says that liberalism (and he means post-modern) is the most intolerant philosophy today. In comparison to the so called religious “haters” out there on the right, they are no match for the intolerance, bigotry and hatred of liberals. Does it make it right? No! But I think your perception of how serious or malevolent the Christian view is, is coloured.

                But what the “other party” does do is repudiate in absolutely vicious terms views that don’t match up to their own. Christians still apply the golden rule, however imperfectly. That just cannot be said for the other side.

                Allahpundit. Yeah he doesn’t always hide his animus toward believers. It kinda makes me wonder how he manages to hold onto his gig since Michelle Malkin is his boss and a Christian. Oh… Maybe his position proves my point. Michelle holds not animus toward him as an Atheist. Funny how that works.

              • las

                P.S. I always have uneasy feelings about HotAir. Never have that when reading MichelleMalkin, but with HotAir I know I am supposed to be on a conservative blog, but get that sinking feeling that it is something else also, mostly from Allahpundit, not so much from Morrissey. At least when I visit lefty sites, I can take a gravol before hand and it gets me through… but Hot Air leaves me uneasy. Their guest contributors are much more reliable with their conservatism.

                • Anonymous

                  Well, all of that about the parties and which is more intolerant is why I’m a Libertarian in philosophy. Be as intolerant as you want so long as you don’t use a gun or nightclub to enforce it.

                  I can’t remember the author, but I remember a book, called something like “The Intolerance of Tolerance.” I think it was written by a philosophy professor of Soros’. It was about the contradiction of people who adopt “Tolerance,” as their only ideology.

                  I live on the border of the Bible-belt, so my view is very probably tainted by personal experience, turning it to hyperbole to one degree or another.

                  As for the growing cultural movement, that’s very true, and so long as the balkanized view of the population is the norm for pandering in politics, it will remain true. Non-believers (spiritual, non-denominational, atheists, etc etc) are approaching 20% of the population, more than most any other minority. I don’t like the balkanized voter-block pandering, but IF that is to be the norm, it’s proper to acknowledge 1/5 of society. The Jewish lobby is in the single digits but are 2nd only to Evangelicals in political clout.

                  The venomous nature of the Democrats’ repudiation of ideas is probably appealing to many atheists as well. There is a lot of frustration or anger out there. I myself was told by my father that he believes a lack of religion-based self-regulation of behavior in a society would result in either chaos or a police state, and because of that atheists should have their 1st Amendment rights revoked with regards to the “god(s)” question. Losing friends, being likened to Mao and Stalin, seeing things like Romney’s religion speech, being told your the cause of societal ills, etc. often even on Fox News can be an embittering experience. Some also feel they’ve been lied to by their families about some of the most important questions, or subjected to childhood indoctrination.

                  My position has been relatively consistent, don’t use the state or private aggression to coerce me into playing along and all is well. That includes the issue of government employees (Teachers) instructing/leading other people’s children in religious activities (prayers).

                  I get the feeling Malkin’s position about Allahpundit’s atheism is the same as Rabbi Lapin’s is about his atheist friends. ie. The distasteful aspect you have to grit and overlook. She’s made several statements on Fox News about the godless.

                  Allahpundit is a more Libertarian Republican, he has no stomach for social conservatism and tries to be erudite about his fiscal conservatism. He’s a Utilitarian Minarchist, the kind of “libertarian” I trust least, because he’s entirely arbitrary.

                  Malkin actually doesn’t own Hotair anymore, she sold it to a VERY Christian company lol, many of the commenters were chagrined over Allah’s continued participation and all the Pro-GOProud posts after the switch.

                  Sorry that got so lengthy.

                • las

                  Didn’t know that HA was sold!

                  Your father was actually onto something there except that 1st Amendment rights revoking of course. What happened to you? Listen, I won’t go too far into this, but this Libertarian chique which is becoming more in fashion imho is simply the refuge of many non-believing conservatives. I don’t say this about you, but it is an observation.

                  Now… as far the societal ills stuff, when conservatives bring it up, the howls and screeching from the non-believers and, yes, the libertarians too can shut down the debate pretty quickly. The cherished prejudices of militant secularists and non-believers are a force to contend with when exposed. It’s perfectly legit for a Christian to inform his culture that bad behaviours and certain social norms have consequences and that there is a better way. And yes, your father was correct about self governance, a point I have stressed previously. The methods by which they do this may leave much to be desired, but I find that even with regard to those I disagree with, their methods matter less than their message. This is a huge stumbling block for many. I can stomach Chris Matthew’s methods, even if much of his message is wrong, I have a grudging respect. But none of it makes me bitter.

                  I’m always curious when someone confesses to an “embittering experience”. Even you really must admit that in this culture it is the Christians who are demonized and marginalized… not the other way around. The embitterment usually has its genesis in something from their upbringing. I hope I’m not stretching here on that point. Losing friends? You don’t have to answer, just curious. Anyway, gotta run… late with my workout. Catcha

                • las

                  Didn’t know that HA was sold!

                  Your father was actually onto something there except that 1st Amendment rights revoking of course. What happened to you? Listen, I won’t go too far into this, but this Libertarian chique which is becoming more in fashion imho is simply the refuge of many non-believing conservatives. I don’t say this about you, but it is an observation.

                  Now… as far the societal ills stuff, when conservatives bring it up, the howls and screeching from the non-believers and, yes, the libertarians too can shut down the debate pretty quickly. The cherished prejudices of militant secularists and non-believers are a force to contend with when exposed. It’s perfectly legit for a Christian to inform his culture that bad behaviours and certain social norms have consequences and that there is a better way. And yes, your father was correct about self governance, a point I have stressed previously. The methods by which they do this may leave much to be desired, but I find that even with regard to those I disagree with, their methods matter less than their message. This is a huge stumbling block for many. I can stomach Chris Matthew’s methods, even if much of his message is wrong, I have a grudging respect. But none of it makes me bitter.

                  I’m always curious when someone confesses to an “embittering experience”. Even you really must admit that in this culture it is the Christians who are demonized and marginalized… not the other way around. The embitterment usually has its genesis in something from their upbringing. I hope I’m not stretching here on that point. Losing friends? You don’t have to answer, just curious. Anyway, gotta run… late with my workout. Catcha

                • las

                  P.s. brain ((( dead)))) can’t go on, must get exercise!!!!

                • las

                  double p.s… that Chris Matthews analogy was a stretch, now i know I’m really losing it.

                • Anonymous

                  Yeah, the “fashionability” of the term “Libertarian,” is more than a little frustrating (thanks Beck). But Napolitano and Tucker Carlson are both ardent believers and I doubt anyone would call their Libertprosthelatizingarianism under suspicion.

                  As for Atheists flocking to it, that may be a clique thing, or it may just simply be a better fit. I was more a Libertarian than I was a Conservative back when I was still calling myself a Deist. Libertarianism logically, to me, would be in conflict with Religions that have the call to convert the world, so maybe the more liberal Christians would fit, but the “one nation under GOD, dammit,” crowd definitely would be “round hole; square peg,” territory.

                  I can’t speak for others, but as for me, I take something like Penn’s (of Penn & Teller) position regarding evangelizing/prosthelytizing. . .
                  Someone can SAY it all they want, try to persuade, make arguments, and get studies done, all that. But don’t you dare use violence or the threat of it to try and compel me to chime along. Personally, it also grates on my nerves incredibly when someone will get in my face with fire & brimstone preaching, some of the most condescending, smug, self-righteous, ignorant, condemning and subjectively opinionated/venomous diatribes and then act offended/shocked/insulted when I push back.

                  I can’t find it but there’s a political cartoon out there of a man in a $5,000 suit using a cross to club someone over the head. The second frame is the 2nd guy about to break said cross over his knee while the 1st man screams “Respect my beliefs!” That’s how it very often feels if you live in a heavily religious community or can only stomach the news of Fox news.

                  As far as demonizing and marginalizing, I would agree with you in the media. Christians are a plentiful, easy, and safe target for pop culture to target to seem “edgy” or “avant garde.” In my personal life, though I can’t say that is the case, I live in an area that is putting up a “Creation Museum” soon, one of my professors went to the Restoring Honor Rally, and I’ve had many door-to-door evangelists come by my house and work.

                  What happened to me is a long story, but the short of it is I read the Bible and became a Deist. I then read science and philosophy and accepted the null hypothesis on the god(s) question (agnostic atheism).

                  My personal experience doesn’t go beyond what I just mentioned and the shock that my father would use VIOLENCE to suppress the SPEECH of people who simply are absent a belief in deities and which to be honest when the subject comes up. His case of “chaos/tyranny” is a fallacy as well, atheists are a smaller % of the prison population than the general population, beaten or tied by only Mormons. We have less divorces, less children out of wedlock, less teenage marriages, and less abortions than the rest of the population.

                  I’m not a fan of Dawkins’ manner, though I did like a couple of his books. One thing from the more famous book was the notion of “consciousness raising,” similar to one of the goals in Feminism. Meaning, that as Feminists tried to raise awareness in people of the male slant of history and even language, “New Atheism,” should raise awareness in people of the ubiquitous Christian assumptions and how people treat issues. Gretchen Carlson has become one of my most hated TV persons since then. I hate the atheist billboards going on the offense but enjoy the non-confrontational ones, even though the immense venom and vandalism hurled at them never ceases to surprise.

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUDhbgb2ZO8 (atheist billboard “controversy,” good audio montage at 5:15)
                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T41TcUyx9Dc (Laura Ingraham & Brian Sapient of the “Blasphamy Challenge)
                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHBDaaZelqU (part 2)
                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ww1AilSJ3U (Man loses custody of children because of Agnosticism)
                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twoXZE9U0Io (Mere mention of non-believers in inauguration speech is offensive? Ignore the video maker’s commentary and name.)

                • las

                  You stuffed too much into that last post… control yourself… sheesh.

                  Listen, the first video with Michael Shermer. I would say the weakest part of his argument was when he called himself an evolutionary libertarian with the claim that he gets to natural law, bypassing a diety, using evolved natural law, an evolved nature. I would argue that the Bible contradicts this quite easily and takes 3500 years to do so. Biblically man’s nature is quite static. Shermer’s first recourse is to relate man to primates as a group. This is weak, it’s definitely darwinian, shades of Hegel. It’s the explanation in lieu of diety.

                  I’m unsure if it is just dishonesty or ignorance, but too many atheists are drumming the claim that religionists are into big government to enforce social mores. I believe natural law includes the moral and that self-governance (we’ve discussed this before) is contained within. As a natural system it is self sustaining… the very system the founders relied upon in order for America’s founding to work. Theology was a separate sphere, unrelated to laws of government therefore no big government necessary to enforce “religious theological norms”. This is what makes the American system very pluralistic… for people of many faiths or creeds to be good citizens… except Muslims under shariah. I believe what many present day libertarians object to are Christians pointing to natural law as an expression of the moral and saying… “there conduct yourselves accordingly!” In essence pointing out that the libertarian is not following the natural law they hold so dear. The Christian would say its sin, the libertarian would say it’s his freedom in natural law. The Bible has an explanation for the libertarian’s excesses. A wall has been hit.

                  I’ll get to the other stuff soon… thanks for the vids.

                • Anonymous

                  Started new string below, scroll down for response to your Part A.

          • las

            Heh heh heh… your first line made me laugh. You took the words from my mouth.

            Carter, peanut farmer evangelical, and Christians flocked en-mass and abandoned their conservatism. Ah… simpler times I guess, but I could never figure it out.

            “I wouldn’t consider the non-devout or the religious who aren’t regular church goers to be “non-religious,” as some might.” You’re absolutely correct on that. I was not implying that. Ah Language, an imperfect tool that.

            On stats… the true left is really low in percentages. Twice as many Americans self identify as conservative than liberal. 20% liberal, 40% conservative. There’s the mushy 40% remainder… and if I could be so presumptuous as to assume that if push were to come to shove, that of the remaining 40%, most would identify as conservative. I don’t say this out of prejudice or bias… I say this out of an awareness that people have a default philosophy… and that default is conservative. But the conservative default is beaten out of them by cultural forces of liberalism. It’s like the Joe Publick guy who listens to MSM media, is told what to believe because it’s the “correct” view to have, yet in the back of his mind says to himself, “I don’t really agree with these people, what they say does not sit well with me, but I can’t put my finger on it”. So he goes through the social motions of being a liberal, because he shuns public humiliation, yet in his heart remains conservative. I believe I can dig up information on this, but don’t have it on hand. Oh yeah… that reminds me of a study by the Barna group on differences between liberals and conservatives… very telling… I’ll dig it up. But like you… that’s my personal experience leading to my opinion.

            Your comment about Godless Americans… quite right, in the Dem party it’s a liability to expose in a flamboyant way one’s atheism, especially from such groups. But the back door is wide wide open. It’s a matter of time before they will be received open-arms in the front door… like the SDS, SPLC, Democratic Socialists of America, ACORN and all the other far left “community groups” are now. Partly in thanks to Soros.

  • Rshill7

    Who did, and is still doing much much more to target Palin than Palin did to target anybody? The media.

    Since day one it has been non-stop Palin bashing. Since the very day that Mcain chose her as a VP candidate. The left targets her, early, often and late. Did anyone kill her yet? No, too bad left, that is what you’re going for right? You’ll take her death in any number of ways will you not?

    First you killed her election chances with lies, then you proceeded to kill her family by bearing false witness. You sought to kill any part of her you could. You looked under every rock. When you ran out of rocks you started manufacturing more rocks to look under. Who has been the recipient of as much seething rage, false witness, and slander as Palin?

    Is the left waiting for Palin to get killed? Are they wishing for it? Every GD one of these media slugs that have not let up on Palin EVER, want to blame her? What is she NOT guilty of for crying out loud. What these hypos are doing is lying to a crowd! Do they realize they are inflaming others regarding her? She is a pristine example of innocence here, The media is as guilty as hell regarding what they are trying and have been trying 24/7 to do to her AND her family. The media isn’t even Holier than lucifer himself, much less thou.

    • las

      You stuffed too much into that last post… control yourself… sheesh.

      Listen, the first video with Michael Shermer. I would say the weakest part of his argument was when he called himself an evolutionary libertarian with the claim that he gets to natural law, bypassing a diety, using evolved natural law, an evolved nature. I would argue that the Bible contradicts this quite easily and takes 3500 years to do so. Biblically man’s nature is quite static. Shermer’s first recourse is to relate man to primates as a group. This is weak, it’s definitely darwinian, shades of Hegel. It’s the explanation in lieu of diety.

      I’m unsure if it is just dishonesty or ignorance, but too many atheists are drumming the claim that religionists are into big government to enforce social mores. I believe natural law includes the moral and that self-governance (we’ve discussed this before) is contained within. As a natural system it is self sustaining… the very system the founders relied upon in order for America’s founding to work. Theology was a separate sphere, unrelated to laws of government therefore no big government necessary to enforce “religious theological norms”. This is what makes the American system very pluralistic… for people of many faiths or creeds to be good citizens… except Muslims under shariah. I believe what many present day libertarians object to are Christians pointing to natural law as an expression of the moral and saying… “there conduct yourselves accordingly!” In essence pointing out that the libertarian is not following the natural law they hold so dear. The Christian would say its sin, the libertarian would say it’s his freedom in natural law. The Bible has an explanation for the libertarian’s excesses. A wall has been hit.

      I’ll get to the other stuff soon… thanks for the vids.

    • las

      Sorry Rshill7… that post was for someone else

  • Rshill7

    The media has painted a target on Palin’s forehead, her temple, her family and her reputation…and for 3 years running…non-stop. There are so many targets on her, I can’t even see her any more. Mostly though, the target is daily painted…on her back.

    Pitiful and putrid. RALPH!

    • http://doorwaybuck.com CM Sackett

      OUTSTANDING POST (to me)!!

      CM Sackett

      • Rshill7

        Thumbs up and thanks sir. I found this site at weasel zippers…FYI.

  • LYNNY47

    Why is it when someone does something so terrible and tragic we right away have to find someone to blame. Did anyone ever think that maybe this is a sick young man who needed help a long time ago. Why do we have to right away blame Sarah Palin for everything. I don’t ever see her blamed for the good things that happen but boy everyone is quick to blame her for the tragic things that happen. Lets face facts this young man is a young man who needed some type of help and we ignore that fact. What perfectly sane and good person would do something like this

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_75PGMTIR6C44VV2ZFASP7HRRXQ Tommy

    Glen, It is my firm belief that I seriously doubt we have anything to worry about from the left coming at us full gallop on a pale white steed with a AK in one hand and a magic wand in the other hand, a silver dollar rubber dildo butt plug, with tie died hair, nipple and ear rings and LGBA tattooed on his ass (what does that last A stand for anyway anal). I think we are safe.

  • Anonymous

    Las response A:
    There are many different takes on Natural Law, given that it is a concept discovered through reason as Aquinas described. One notion of Natural Law does not necessarily men all notions of Natural law.

    Libertarian Natural Law is no more and no less than Zero-Aggression Principle and Neo-Lockean property. One follows from the other, so it’s simply Neo-Lockean property. Anything added to that is non-requisite and additional preference.

    Atheists can drum that claim very easily when social Conservatives proudly and loudly sing it from the rooftops that part of the government’s responsibility is to encourage morality. This is a common sight on just about any conservative blog. The most common form of this is the long wall o’ text posts of scripture quotations meant to apply to the latest public policy decision of the state and about how it has to get right with god or bad things are a-comin’. Occasionally there is even a call for the reinstatement of sodomy laws.

    There’s one thing I’ve never heard a satisfactory answer for from anyone regarding law. If it is an emergent system of law and rights found to be enforced/respected even in the state of nature, why is it necessary to establish a State to enforce/respect Natural Law and Rights as Locke said?

    As for Shermer. I can pretty much tell you exactly where he would go, and that is to point not just to OTHER primates, but to other mammals in general. Reciprocal altruism, charity, and cooperation are abundant throughout the animal kingdoms and it’s extremely unlikely Homo Sapiens would have survived the early days if we weren’t pre-disposed to such behavior as well. There is a strong case to be made that what you call morality and I call ethics evolved, then built upon in the human capacity to reason.

  • Rshill7

    Dan, with all due respect and even though I have lost count of the low-class name-calling from you, it seems to me that you have made the mistake of infinite extrapolation sir. You have, at best, described sideways movement, micro-evolution, or what is known as variation with a species. You can raise generations of dogs or cows and breed some different traits into them, but that dog will never become anything other than a differentiated dog.

    What you and others have utterly failed to do is illustrate how the first living single celled organism evolved from non-living matter. If you cannot do that, you most definitely cannot show how the eye of a mollusk is much more complex than a human eye or more importantly how the human brain evolved from that single cell or the mollusk. Your infinite extrapolations based on variation within a species are simply bridges too far. You can’t get here from primordial slime. The first cell couldn’t survive the ultra-violet rays from the sun even it could evolve from non-living matter, and whereas you consider the case closed, it is anything but.

    In addition, you have not explained how that first living cell or any other macro-evolutionary presupposed act occurred. There are definite limits to how far you can extrapolate what you have attempted to show. It is an over simplification and over-extrapolation and I think, a downright impossibility, in a world where the law of increasing entropy or (2nd law of thermodynamics) is supreme. Even here you can show how a baby becomes a human but that is not able to be extrapolated beyond the death of that one person. That short term upward mobility and increasing complexity is due to the intelligence with the DNA. It is not a straight up graph, but a parabola. I think the 2nd law (entropy) makes macro-evolution, impossible. Whether or not the earth is an open or a closed system. The 2nd law is stubborn indeed. If it is an open system, that increases entropy even more and exacerbates the problem because the Sun is not intelligent energy, it is nonsense energy and hastens entropy. Thanks for listening and please stop the name-calling. It doesn’t help your cause, it simply exhibits your frustration.

    • Anonymous

      More holier than thou hypocrisy, I might have guessed…oh, wait, I did, up above in another reply to you. Anyone can scroll on up and see your respectful nice guy act is a sham. You opened all of this with patronizing condemnation of 2 people for nothing more than not buying your bronze age fairy tale and seasoned the **** sandwich with a double dose of smug “I’ll pray for you,” garbage.

      You kicked all this off and now try posting this way at the bottom where you thought I might not see, lucky me that Las has another reply forthcoming. Shameful.

      The Second Law of Thermodynamics does not falsify Evolution.

      http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/thermo/probability.html Read this to understand why your assertions regarding Physics would, if true, make your refrigerator either impossible or a miracle from god.

      To qualify as “life,” “living,” an organism, there are several conditions necessary, one of which is METABOLISM, the ability to take in Entropy and put it to work.

      People learn the first three laws of Thermodynamics in high school, it’s total kid’s stuff. If that were the case there would have been a Nobel Prize given long ago to the physicist who could show this in maths any Physicist could write out between spoonfuls of cereal at breakfast.

      Don’t try to put the words in my mouth that I suggested primordial slime, either. Did you get that from Expelled? I said that the theories of Abiogenesis with the best support (as compared to other theories of Abiogenesis) all deal with, to my knowledge, the event occurring deep underwater.

      Your human eye canard has been dealt with as well if you would even bother to take the time to read anything other than what would reaffirm your predetermined beliefs. If we’re supposedly at the apex of creation, why did God give us such crappy eyes compared to even the octopus?
      http://www.nature.com/nrn/journal/v8/n12/execsumm/nrn2283.html
      http://jhered.oxfordjournals.org/content/96/3/171.full
      Dawkins himself has also written on and dedicated parts of documentaries to the development of the eye.

      Is there anything at all about any single post you’ve put on here (side from the self-righteous jesus-inspired snark) that wasn’t lifted wholesale from apologetics books/sites written by people with degrees in completely separate disciplines? If Evolution was such a joke and so easy to refute out of hand by something so simple as HIGH SCHOOL PHYSICS, don’t you think someone would have and completely overturned every aspect of modern medicine? That would be the modern medicine which has cured countless diseases and increased the human average lifespan by 50%.

      Oh, wait, is it a conspiracy among scientists spanning the globe and over a century or scientific development? Is it lead by a big scary mustachioed villain who twirls his facial hair with a guffaw as he burns bibles, eats kittens, and tortures people for mispronouncing Lucifer? (C WAT I DID THAR!?)

      Oh, while you’re about the mundane work of overturning all of Biology, would you be so kind as to explain why 16S Ribosomal testing works? Every single time a medical doctor does exactly that, it’s one more check in the column of evidences for Evolution.

      That’s the final thing I’m sending your way, truthfully this time. If you have the overriding need to vomit more disinformation and non-science on this page just so you can get the last word and feel good, go right ahead.

      • Rshill7

        I posted here so you would be sure to see Oh captain my private. You’re an empty suit. Albeit, a pompous empty suit. You and your theories are bankrupted and good for what they are…nuthin’.

        I was going to ask you to list some of the virtues of your atheistic missionary ways but since you quit, like they all do, I’ll save it for someone who doesn’t take a day and a half to say nuthin’.

        • Rshill7

          correction: bankrupt or bancrupt w/o the -ed. Must’ve been thinkin’ about a horse or horses ass or something.

      • Rshill7

        You continue to worship yourself sir…or nuthin’. I have too many reasons to believe otherwise.

      • Rshill7

        “Dawkins himself…” blah, blah, blah (DAN)

        Was I supposed to bow at the name of an irrefutable person here? Dawkins? Dawkins? He’s as religious about atheism as you claim to be unreligious about everything. I think you are overhyped Dan…and overconfident in something you don’t realize is, wait for it…..wait for it….nuthin’.

        Does it usually take you this much effort to accomplish nuthin’?

      • Rshill7

        Scientists and professors who don’t tow the evolutionary line are black-listed, outright fired, lose funding, or otherwise are killed by the established elites. The politification of science.

        There are scores of advanced degree scientists and Profs in many, many fields who disagree with both you and the artificial elites, you know, the ones, quashing dissent whom you revere.

      • Rshill7

        It’s a religion in itself and you, a proud, assistant, substitute, deacon in it.

      • Rshill7

        “…your bronze age fairy tale and seasoned the **** sandwich with a double dose of smug “I’ll pray for you,” garbage.” (DAN)

        A double-dose huh? I didn’t even offer a single dose of “I’ll pray for you” sir. I haven’t even alluded to prayer a single time on this entire page or this entire site for that matter. I guess that makes you a shameless misrepresenter. Some people simply call that a liar.

        I would surmise that CM’s glowing praise of you yesterday is something he might wish he had avoided. You made him look like a bad judge of character didn’t you? You took his glowing words of praise and slapped him right in the face with them.

        I for one am not baffled by your fibs, your foibles or your fantasmagorical, flatulence.

        RS

        • Rshill7

          correction: I think I did say, I’ll pray to God and you can pray to your navel…something to that effect.

    • Rshill7

      Here is what happens. The elitist (evolution is my religion freedom quasher) scientists in charge, follow this line of reasoning. “First, eliminate the impossible, then what remains, however improbable must be the truth” is…” They eliminate creation and intelligent design right off the bat without due cause, and it’s that bat, that sucks’em dry.

      They also say things like “There are no absolutes”, when that statement itself is an absolute. All they have is wordplay and a relatively small number of people are swayed by their efforts to proselytize.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_YYJU3FJAR7BCSX6XI5VA3FSV64 Robert M

    this is a good reading by beck

  • Zackbluebeach

    They asked Sarah Palin if she could use the words Blood Libel constructively in a sentence and she replied, I shoot a moose, blood libel pour out. Our Sary is sure smart. My Uncle used to say never aim your cross hairs at something, you don’t want to shoot. Sarah drew her cross hairs on Gifford. What did she expect would happen?

  • Guest

    They asked Sarah Palin if she could correctly use the two words Blood Libel in a sentence and she replied, When I shoot moose, blood libel pour out. Our Sary is sure smart. My Great Uncle used to tell me never to aim my cross hairs at something I did not want to kill. Palin painted crosshairs on Gifford, what did she think would happen.

  • Lejr529

    The first thing I deed when I hear the shooting in Arizona was pray to God for the safty of the victoms. The far left first thing of their future.

  • guest

    Sarah Palin is not a true respected conservative who practices the values of being openminded, constructive, intelligent, responsible, sincerety, & truthfulness to be truly one of them. Her efforts in being an activist indicates scattered brains. Being a distant cousin of hers via PILGRIM Richard Warren, anyone who feels she should run for President in 2012 I would describe as a wacko-ist. Staats52runner

  • guest

    Fox News should fire Rush Limbaugh & Glenn Beck for now practicing the true values of respected conservatism, which are being open minded, constructive, intelligent, responsible, sincere, & truthful.
    Limbaugh’s complaints about Obama’s attempts to discard the warts of the health care system are utterly lacking in constructive and intelligent ways that are needed. Considering how prone so many millions of Americans are in having Rush Limbaugh’s kind of disease ( obese & bloated ), I do not trust Limbaugh’s comments.
    Staats52runner

  • SHIRLEY HINTONANESTAR08

    First of all your religions MORMON doctrine begs the question what God ? IS Jesus the son of God and is Jesus GOD in the flesh ” or the God man …Glenn you say you are a believer …Was Jesus created or IS HE GOD the trinity ? Also Sarah Palin????? Are you kidding me ?????? Please Please Please Get realer then real !!!!!
    Sadly so many are following this pied piper…. Its all about me… . its all about me …its all about me ….Wake up America, wake up all you stupid old men that cant think above your zippers.Parrots ..Palin followers that dont have a clue.
    Shilrey Hinton
    Dallas Ga

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