Krauthammer says that while many will blame the gun or cultural influences, he leans toward the psychology of the shooter:
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Forget the left’s noise and all the gun control propaganda. The failure is within the Medical Community Industry not providing complete care.
Now that we have Obamacare jammed down our throat it’s time the famous program stepped up to all glory it promised and include comprehensive treatment providing care for the mentally troubled walking the streets.
The solution is now Obamacare’s responsibility not through the D.O.J. creating more restrictive laws on American Citizen’s
You mean all who call themselves liberal, the most serious mental disease on our planet.
I’d like to double, triple or quadruple Like your comment, warpmine! 😉
Personally, I think the shooter was an evil POS. For some reason a lot of people aren’t willing to believe, or at least they’re not willing to say, that some people are just plain evil. Those people have always been with us, and they probably always will be.
Unfortunately we have the evil party hell bent on overthrowing our constitution in control of the white house and the senate.
The stupid party controls the House of Representatives and is hell bent on appeasement.
I wish I had something positive to say, but this is no longer a center right nation. A center right nation doesn’t accidently elect Obama twice.
hammer, meet nailhead…
No, but a one-sided fraud machine does. I don’t think Obama really won. I don’t think several democrats who won actually won either. Having said that, a lot of Republicans “lost” because nobody challenged the cheater, cheater pumpkin eaters :-I
Our Michigan Republican statehouse dudes and dudettes, who this last week passed “Freedom To Work” also passed a bill in a marathon session that ended yesterday morning at about 4:30 AM which included a bill:
“…allowing people who undergo extra training to carry concealed weapons in places such as schools and churches.”
It’s amazing what conservatives can do when they have the majority.
Also only about 15 states have decided to implement the Obamacare exchanges. This will be interesting.
Anyway, have a nice weekend folks. Me lovely bride and I are going to see our equally lovely daughter and grandbaby today. So there 😀
3 mln conservatives did not sit home – their votes were tossed out or changed into BHO’s votes. Yes, dems controlled the voting machines.
Enjoy your weekend with the family Rshill! My wife and I are are heavily involved in our Church’s christmas program which is this weekend, I’m very excited! See you Monday 😉
If more than 35% of registered Republicans voted this election Democrat voter fraud would be of little importance. Liberals can justify cheating as just another campaign strategy. The bottom line is (and what the center right of this nation has to wake up to) is they actually have to lift their butts up off the couch and vote to avoid what we are seeing today. The Libs are shocked they won this election, they know they deserved to lose the election and now like a child locked in a candy store by mistake they are going to take full advantage of the situation they find themselves in. Because of the apathy of the Republicans in this country our children are being handed a Socialist/soon to be Communist country. You can spit, fume, cuss and bark at the moon about Democrat voter fraud until your face turns blue and it won’t change the fact that this can be laid at the feet of your fellow Republicans.
We can’t change the last election. But the fraud was real, both physical and electronic. What needs to be changed and what is possible is to change the electronic election process so that no amount of attempted fraud can influence an election again.
Everyone should want an honest election and a viable, clean election process should be just as conceivable as millions of people using an ATM machine every single day without fear of fraud occuring.
In regards to the mechanics of an election I believe the people of Iraq have it right. A low tech solution as simple as dipping your thumb into a bottle of ink after casting their vote is better than what we have in the USA today. You can even go high tech with an equivalent to the ink in a digital format either way these are nothing more than exercises in futility if Center Right believing people in this country are so pathetically lame as to not vote at all.
You’re assuming the fraud was individual in the first place. It’s presumed that the electronic fraud in the swing states was a major factor, so any solution that solves the problem at the voting booth hasn’t even touched the counting problem of hacking the machines that sworn testimony in Congress has proven to exist.
Any electronic voting should be backed up by paper. All voting stations should be strictly supervised. Don’t trust anyone having to do with the voting process. Putin is supposed to have ‘won’ by fraud. It’s coming here, too, if it hasn’t already.
The New World Order is being accepted by all political parties, and Christianity interferes too much with the immorality they will throw at us. Don’t give up your guns, or candles and matches. Keep a good water supply and lots of seeds. We’re going to need them sooner than we think. The enemy within is our elected and non elected fraudulent government ‘representatives’.
Every bumber sticker I (still) see is for Romney/Ryan. So how in the heck did Obama win. I am sick of this fraud. I am sick of people like Boehner trying to appease the left in the name of…who knows what? Certainly not patriotism.
You can say he won or you can say apathetic Republicans who decided not to vote handed the election to Obama on a golden platter.
Romney would have been a great President. He was cheated. We’re all really in for it now. He will do his best to disarm all Americans. This will open us up for invasion by well armed communists who have been funded by your tax dollars. The ‘rich’ should tell Obama that when he can show he can handle their money in a professional, pro American way, they’ll consider paying more taxes, temporarily.
It’s interesting that in many states, Conservative approaches are winning, but they claim we had no pull in the overall election (and we should all shut up about it – bah).
It screams fraud from every corner of the swing states right down to West’s highly visable attempt to disclose it. Time will tell if we can expose this fraud (they are very good at it), but we must work to change the electronic election process.
Without that, we can kiss any future elections goodbye.
Have a great weekend, Rs. Nothing is better than spending time with those that are most dear.
This could be our last Christmas in freedom.
Your point is well taken. When you have an obvious pathological liar who lies with every speech he makes, then a vote for Obama is a vote against our country. His attack to bring us to our knees is proceeding with the help of those who cannot determine the truth. Romney’s refusal to embrace the conservatives while taking actions that indicate he might (choosing Ryan) lean more conservative than Obama was a poor gamble. Millions of conservatives refused to vote for the lesser of two evils again. Throw in the evangelicals who stayed at home because of religious beliefs and the deck was stacked from the beginning.
Was the killer taking any mind-altering drugs? Why weren’t these guns locked up? Let’s pray for the victims and their families. Obama and the socialist will be out there today trying to to make political hay out of this tragedy. How shameful! That’s like me going out and blaming this on the violence of the unions recently in MI.
You make a good point about the gun not being locked up. Mine are locked and the key is hidden in a place that is only known to me. Also the ammo is also hidden.
Killer shot his mother in the face and killed her. Took her car keys, I assume he was able to find keys to a gun cabinet as well. You see, these are things we really don’t know for sure – nothing says that they weren’t locked up. Only, at least for now, we understand the guns belonged to her.
It’s going to read or ‘sound’ stupid, but:
#2 Is where it probably began
If your over 35+ it’s not going to make much sense.
Where’s Al Gore when you actually NEED him?
Note, products of grown up environments ALWAYS become reactions of grown up environments.
…Every 11 + kid alive enjoys a first person shooter.
oh, ok…but, I think your tin foil hat is a bit crooked.
Beckel, is that you?
The problem is letting mental patients roam freely and monitor their own meds…kicked to the curb by the grace of some social worker (closely related to the “community organizer”).
Bleeding heart liberals of the 60’s and 70’s have actually endangered the mentally ill by pushing them out to live in society, where, because of their mental illness, they often become non-complaint and unable to function in society. Thus ending up on the homeless and living on the street. I know, I volunteer working with them.
That’s a sad commentary.
Sorry, I have to part way with Krauthammer here.
The psychology of the murderer may be of interest, but only for academic purposes.
It may help us, and perhaps the families, to come to ultimately find it in ourselves to forgive the murderer.
But the way Krauthammer detailed it, this falls into the same old trap of blaming the victim, the mother, as she is always somehow and ultimately blamed – and as if there had been no other adults in that murderer’s life, like father or teachers, friends even.
Sadly, in a world where only one’s own little ego counts, where only the immediate gratification of one’s own pleasures count, nobody has time or compassion to listen to the pain and need of others, which pain and need are not significant anyway next to the needs of the modern ego.
That is another of the reasons why we are where we are: a place where it looks to be ok for one person to kill small children because he’s in pain, and because this might hurt his mother whom he’s already killed …
We need to give this tragedy time, and the true facts will eventually be known.
I feel so sad for the families of those 26 victims, Their broken hearts are in dire need of prayers, so that they, also, won’t become more victims. It’s enough sorrow to produce a heart attack.
It would be interesting to find out what the murderer did in general prior to this murder spree. I bet he played a lot of video games where you can blow people to bloody bits. A whole generation is brought up in front of the computer with blood and gore thanks to the gaming industry to where this is their reality. Don’t like someone? Blow ‘m up. Of course I could be wrong but on the other hand I have a feeling I’m not.
It would not surprise me at all if he did play violent video games, however to place the blame for a shooting on video games makes the same fallacy that the people who blame it on guns make. Even if every single gun murder was committed by a legal gun owner and and there were no repeat offenders, then about 99.98% of legal gun owners are law abiding (~10,000 murders, ~70,000,000 gun owners). If guns cause crime then that percentage should be far lower. Like wise, with the popularity of first person shooters and other violet video games, (Call of Duty 4 alone has sold over 13 million copies) if violet video games led to violent crime there would be far more crime committed. Using the same metric as with guns above(what if every murder played call of duty) over 99.9% of call of duty owners are innocent.
I don’t disagree with you. The only point I was trying to make is that the video game issue COULD be contributory, but I guess I failed to make that point. When I saw jleinf’s reaction, placed one minute after mine, I thought he/she had it pinpointed much better.
Young boys used to play ‘cowboys and Indians” and ‘good guys vs bad guys.’ BB guns was a big deal on a Christmas present wish list, with parents saying “you’ll shoot your eye out’. Are parents watching today’s video games to see if they approve of the language and intent of the message? Movies, TV, and videos of violence can have a cumulative effect on desensitizing young minds, I suppose, but who is investigating this? Most loving homes will have a neutralizing effect, I’m sure. I would like to see more ‘loving’ types of movies that bring out the heartwarming joy in people’s hearts, and influence their minds for what is good in life.
Role models play a huge role in development of youth. If you look at the way TV and movies have become more violent, acceptably so, it explains a lot. And just this last week Jamie Foxx was bragging about how great it is that he plays a part killing white people! Young people model Holliweirdos, all you have to do is look at the way young girls dress, the significant rise in out-of-wedlock births. I cannot name the last Holliweirdo couple that was married before conception. Look at Brad and Anjolie! How many kids do they have? And the only reason they are marrying is because their children want them to. Disgusting.
Hollywood used to produce some great ‘loving’ movies that warmed the heart, and influenced people to do what is right for each other.
Unfortunately, it has become Follywood.
Psycho cocktail: Take 2 parts mental disorder+ 1 part violence glorification+ 1 part stress+ 2 parts godlessness +add a weapon of choice and shake vigorously
Actually I think you nailed it.
What Marridge said.
If the media wasn’t trying to indoctrinate America into a liberal mindset, then we could have an honest dialogue about this tragedy and how to prevent it from ever happening again.
Obama must be beside himself with opportunity here… yeah, so he wept or said something gracious on national T.V. – part of the radical pose. But in his heart, this is a golden opportunity to him and his Communist friends who want to disarm and control the American people… this horrible event plays right into his twisted plans.
And the corrupt media will be more than happy to villainize guns and say that weapons are the real evil in this country… totally discounting the monsters that pull the triggers.
Pray for these families and the kids who will be forever scarred because of this… innocence is always changed after evil pays a visit.
By that you mean that phoney tear. I saw no tearing up and this sociopath couldn’t tear up unless you took away his jet. What a fake!
Spot on… since he has no soul, how can he have real emotions?
The only way to stop evil is to defeat evil. Unfortunately, America has strolled down the wrong path.
This event will make gun owners (and yes plenty are liberals) dig their feet in even harder. In fact, I would be willing to wager that many liberals will see the Marxist for what he is, an enemy to our freedoms.
You know something? I don’t give a tinkers damn ‘why’ he did it. There isn’t a place low enough in Hell for this SOB to rot for eternity. I’m equally glad he killed himself. The last thing on the planet I would have wanted to see is some slick lawyer and psychologist say this Punk ‘wasn’t in his right mind’ (well duh!) and that he can be rehabilitated, and put him in a mental institution (on the money of those shattered parents) for 5 or 10 years. As far as I’m concerned, there are just some things that you give up your right to be called a human if you do and I think this just about tops the list.
Well said. I agree totally.
My dil is a teacher, taught kindergarten last year, she’s teaching 4th grade this year and stands in for the principle. She’s a very accomplished Godly woman, who gave us the apple of our eye (four year old grandson).
I can’t stop worrying.
I want to tell her, that she is never ever to be a hero, never ever put herself in harms way…I feel bad for thinking that, but if some monster enters her school I don’t want her to lay down her life….dear Jesus.
Not enough people and professionals out there that can identify and treat mental illness. It also starts with the family. Did the mother of this killer notice any real or significant mental illness problems and did she ever do anything about it? It was said that the two boys who committed the killings at Columbine showed lots of signs of dangerous mental illness and their parents simply ignored it. The same with that shooter in Arizona that shot Gabby Giffords and all those other people. He was clearly insane and his parents didn’t do much about it. As a national community, we’re going to have to do a lot more to locate and treat these people BEFORE they explode in violence. The guns are only the tools they use to commit their acts of insanity. Look at the Oklahoma City bombing, which killed almost 200 people. No guns were obviously used there, yet a madman was more than capable of figuring out a way to blow up that building. We also don’t know how many mentally ill people in this country commit violent crimes (or even murder) each year. They may kill one or two people, you just don’t hear about it in the national news media. People seem to just accept that some “crazy person” committed a violent crime. Identifying and treating mental health issues in this country should become a major priority, uneless we want to see more of this happen on a regular basis.
Even if the mother had observed that her son was destabilizing and become dysfunctional, she wouldn’t have been able to do anything. Yes, maybe notify someone, but they do nothing until after the fact. Two things drive this current stupidity in our society today. The philosophy that these ill people are really victims and should be coddled, and have “rights.” And 2) HIPAA – the Federal privacy act which essentially cuts off family members from knowing anything about other family members once they turn 18. So she could have even called his doctor (if he had one), and he would have discussed Nothing with her. Period. Yes, the STATE/GOVERNMENT now knows more about you than your own family.
HIPAA breaks the bonds of the family support network in our society.
Great points! The son was 20-years old so the parents really were limited in what they could do. Perhaps CT has a 72 hour hold for mental illness but I don’t know, haven’t researched it. The other missing link is what triggered him to do this. Something set him off. Something caused him to go to that school after he murdered his mom.
Environment, modeling, learning and conditioning by parents, peers, media and culture are also powerful factors in an outbreak of violent murderous rage.
The media have contributed – violent movies, shows, games, the devaluation of human life, depersonalization of others, etc. are certainly factors that can be blamed. The Columbine shooters were consumers of violent games and media.
A diet of violence and death acts on the mental defects/vulnerabilities and values, the spiritual/moral mindset of individuals with varying degrees of negative results.
We can see this kind of conditioning in the Islamic world where an unbalanced person or mob will go haywire and start killing.
It is also possible that the killer was mistreated and perhaps that is why he became angry, violent and unmanageable.
We do not know yet if the father lived in the home or whose guns this young man used.
But, it is likely he had been conditioned to kill by what he had experienced and learned.
Please let’s not forget Barky Boy was in MI on Monday inciting violence. The unions demonstrated that violence on Tuesday. The media was still covering the thugs on Wed and Thurs. Connected, I can’t confirm but the timing is frightening.
Or they are born evil and can’t be changed.
If a sixteen year old boy drove his Prius through a crowded farmer’s market and killed 25 people, would the left and the media be trying to shut down the car industry?
Course not, Liberals would ban the farmers market as they shouldn’t have been there exercising a free market.
This is a rhetorical question, no doubt. You already know the answer, me thinks.
This is what happens when we are no longer allowed to call people “crazy” anymore and most of the mental hospitals have closed because the governments do not want to make them “fell ashamed” instead of allowing them to get the help they need (or remove them from society if they refuse to take their medication or their condition is too far gone to help). There is a such thing as crazy.
I”m with Krauthammer on this, but feel that it is a combination of the psychology of the killer and the cultural influences. There is a desensitization to violence and killing in this society, it’s been brought on by Hollywood, but really is seeded and grown in the violent video game industry. Of course, 99.9% of gamers can handle the make believe of the video games, but for those who have mental illness, it feeds into their pathology and does give them ideas and reinforcement of sociopathic thoughts…
That said, the psychology of the killer is the pre-determinant here. There is evil in the world, and yes, there is mental illness to the extreme that we know sociopaths exist and are not redeemable. Nature, nurture, either way or both, but it is real and cannot be fixed despite the bleeding heart liberals who’ve made perpetrators into victims and innocent victims made to seem like they’re perpetrators.
The Left doesn’t want us to believe in evil, because then that would allow us to not only have to acknowledge the concept of evil, but also understand the evil vs good. Which requires a moral compass. A moral compass that is gleaned from other than the State…
All the letters describe what is wrong with our society today. The slippery slope of liberalism has become evident to all.
I want to come together and mourn, but I also have to defend myself. And Krauthammer is correct–the issue is how to we prevent the mentally deranged from doing these things.
There is one thing we can do to try to prevent these killings in the future. Once the murderer is dead, never ever mention his name in the MSM or history books ever again.
Deny the murder infamy or in the murderer’s mind, fame. If this is done future would be murderers might not act on their mental illnesses if they know they will not be remembered.
Even if making dead murderers like this nameless doesn’t work, it is the way it should be. The victims names will unfortunately not remembered. The murder’s name should not be remembered either.
Charles Krauthammer did not mention the murder’s name and nor have I. We all know who he and I are talking/writing about.
Every time this happens, the first thing addressed is the gun, never the issue of mental illness. It’s not about the gun, it’s about the lack of serious mental health availability and the laws that hinder those with it from getting help before things like this occur. There is a rampant epidemic of unidentified and untreated individuals with mental disorders…our prisons are filled with them. They aren’t cured, it’s a lifetime disease. Yet the first thing liberal fools look for is the gun. A sane person with a gun could have stopped this out of control individual before it escalated to where it did! We hear about fighting cancer, heart disease, and all sorts of physical ailments, but the issue of mental health is never addressed. From what I’m hearing about the murderer, it sounds as though he had issues that no one felt were serious enough to address. It’s too late to prevent this horror, but one way to make a difference with this tragedy is to talk about the real cause, not the stupid gun. A mentally ill person doesn’t need a gun to make a tragedy, they are clever enough to use anything available. When are we going to stop wasting our time on a stupid debate about weapons and get to the real heart of the issue, so that no more nightmares of this proportion have to occur?
Is it too late to acknowledge Evil exists? That’s a fact so the mob will disagree. Morals are so yesterday. The mob will demand the righteous pay. I hope I did not offend…not.
Cannot imagine the pain of so much innocence lost. Prayers…
IT’S THE CULTURE STUPID!
When as a culture you teach children to SIMULATE murder and de-emphasize morality, don’t be surprised when they become monsters and ACT IT OUT!
Exhibit A: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSUe0Uzo7nA
Exhibit B: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lULODqhqsJ0
We see this brainwashing in the Middle East and we shake our heads in sadness, but then we give our own kids MILITARY SIMULATIONS and call them “games” and then we’re SHOCKED when they act it out!
Garbage in. Garbage out.
As much as I admire and respect Dr. Krauthammer, he and other “experts” – whether they be medical, law enforcement, media, what or whomever-they should all save their predictions, opinions, etc. until the facts start to emerge. All over Facebook, blogs, pages and pages and pages of unconfirmed stories, of zealots on both sides, all wanting to get their two cents worth in about gun control, Obama, who was or was not responsible and why, to me, it was a disgusting display, one that has all but turned me off the news both on and off line.
I was so sickened by this tragedy, but what sickened me even more was (once again), the slobbering media, jumping to conclusions, opining before the facts are in (there’s a press conference on now), trying to fill in time, to pull every so-called expert and non-expert in, when the wise and smart thing to do would be to either put on alternate programming or continue on with normal programming, updating only when necessary.
I’ve all but stopped watching thew 24 hour news channels for this very reason; same goes for the blogs and websites. Too much speculation, too many armchair quarterbacks and not enough information. Until that balance changes, I am more than content to fill my time with books and music.
So true. TV news has just become in general hours and hours of speculation with few facts.
“… I invite each of you to sit down in front of your own television set when your station goes on the air and stay there, for a day, without a book, without a magazine, without a newspaper, without a profit and loss sheet or a rating book to distract you. Keep your eyes glued to that set until the station signs off. I can assure you that what you will observe is a vast wasteland.” Newton H. Minow May 9, 1961.
24 hour TV NEWS and most news has become…a vast wasteland.
Unfortunately, so much of the media has been duped, and are blind to the fact they are enablers of the manipulators. No matter how tragic the situation, nothing will interfere with the flow of expensive commercials.
The liberal/progressive/left will only be happy when they think all of America is a Gun Free Zone. Then also the criminals of America will be happy,happy as well!
As warpmine said: You mean all who call themselves liberal, the most serious mental disease on our planet!
It’s time to start a trend of reversing the word ‘progressive’ as being liberal. Most of the time the so-called ‘progress’ is regressive. It is all against the traditional common good. It started with eliminating the censorship board of movies. Then the university professors indoctrinated young minds to atheism and socialism, and ‘freedom’ of sexual relationships. From then on, the slippery slope went crazy.
We should start using guard dogs at the schools, they work better, always on time,no sexual contact with children, do not kidnap, they can get rid the drugs, guns..etc, they do not strike for higher wages ,no walking off the job.
Good idea. Mankind’s best friend would have a ball with all those children to get to know.
The only way to stop a Bad Guy with a gun is a GOOD GUY WITH A GUN!
Or Good Woman!
Absolutely, and maybe even ‘especially’.
It’s so obviously TRUE. Imagine sending peacekeepers to face armed soldiers in a war zone?
stop printing their names . In this hollywood and reality based , youtube culture everyone seems to want to be famous. Take some disturbed idiot who wants to be known and remembered at whatever cost and this is what you end up with.
Yes! I think murderers like this are in a sense shouting, “Look at me! Look at me!” and “Remember me, remember me!”
Make this murderer’s name, “dead” in the MSM. Cut out the fame/infamy aspect of these kinds of murders. Say to future would be mass murderers, “You do this we will not remember YOU, but your victims we will.”
Yep, I saw on the news where they were plastering an old picture of him from 7 years ago all over the news. What good does it do to show a thirteen year old when the guy was 20. It’s because that’s all they have right now and everybody wants a picture. No picture is needed. Just call him, like you said, ‘dead’ and it won’t glorify him.
Much like they glorified Trayvon Martin with a picture of a thirteen year old and tried to portray him as some ‘little kid’. What is it with the media and pictures of thirteen year olds?
There has never yet been a picture of what Travon Martin actually looked like, published by a major media outlet, including Fox News.
Somebody published the gold tooth pictures, but that might have been on the internet.
It was on the internet. I’m talking major media outlets. ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, CNN, etc. They refuse to portray him as a grown man, 17 or no 17.
Hi tinlizzieowner. Sorry to cut in with a non topic, but I am waiting for my husband to get home from work. I’d like to come up to the museum tomorrow. Not our whole group this time, just me, husband and son. I’m not sure yet though. Just wanted to let you know. I really am wanting to come up there.
Just so happens My Mrs. and I will be running the place from 4 to 8 pm tomorrow. For some reason, the museum has to stay open late. Fisherman’s Village sets our hours, we don’t. If you do come up, please be sure to stick around till after 4. The museum opens at noon.
Well now I really wish we could come! but I can’t. Sorry tinlizzie. I was really looking forward to it, but my husband wants to come too- but has other stuff he’s got to finish up for work tomorrow. He just started back and Sunday being his only day off, has stuff he’s got to do. I hope we come soon though. I’m dying to get up there. I will try too to give you more notice when we do come. Sorry!!! Hope you and the Mrs. Have a Blessed day tomorrow though. Thank you tinlizziedriver.
We will see you when we can. I’m at work trying to post on a blackberry.t
I can’t imagine how a child can kill the mother that gave life.
If only one gun exists in a community and that gun is in the hands of a seriously deranged individual, there is a much higher potential for tragedy than if there are a number of guns throughout that entire community. That sicko went into a building where he knew there would be *no guns* in order to cause the highest number of casualties. He had no desire to get into a gun battle. He was a coward who wanted to end his own life *only* after killing as many people as he could. If you have a situation where stable, law abiding citizen are banned from owning guns, it makes it easier for criminals to prey upon them. I am thankful that my IL supreme court has compelled our lawmakers to make conceal and carry legal in IL. I will be carrying on DAY ONE that it becomes legal here. Yesterday, when I arrived at my children’s middle school to pick them up, a local policeman was standing guard in front of the school doors. It was a show of force; a non verbal statement. His presence only brings peace and security to those who mean no harm.
I am a solid conservative from Toronto and I support virtually all GOP postions. But for the life of me I cannot comprehend their postion on gun control. For all the conversation about not being a gun issue and amazingly if there were more guns this could have been averted simply ignores the obvious facts. The U.S. has without a doubt the most violent gun culture in the world and the easiest accessability to weopons that can cause the most damage in the shortest period of time. Finally examine school mass shootings since 1996. There have been 29 in the U.S. and 14 in the entire rest of the world. Does this statistic not give anyone pause to reconsider their postion.
“The U.S. has without a doubt the most violent gun culture in the world and the easiest accessability to weopons that can cause the most damage in the shortest period of time.”
I take it, you’ve never heard of the Middle East.
The History of Gun Control
All the worst dictators in history banned gun ownership. That’s why the Ukrainians could only defend their food from the Soviets with pitchforks after Stalin forced mass starvation upon them.
Hitler banned Jews from owning gun and other instruments that could be used as weapons
Mao banned gun ownership
Pol Pot banned gun ownership
A disarmed population is a defenseless population
You have got to be kidding me. As a Canadian with restrictions on guns and assault weopons I live in zero fear of the government. As I am sure say France, Germany Japan and oh maybe the grand daddy of democracies Great Britian citizens do. How can you believe every other democratically elected country has some form of gun laws, with far less gun related violent crime can keep their governments in check. Yet Americans can’t
You are mistaken in regards to gun related crime
It’s up 35% in the UK where guns are banned
History is History
I am not suggesting there is not crime in those other countries, and I would not foolishly suggest there is not gun related crime. The point is the comparisons pale. The U.S. has a significantly greater number of deaths by guns then any other democracy in the world. You may want to argue your point with certain reasons but please not this one, the evidence is overwhelming.
You are attempting to make a simplistic emotional argument. It doesn’t hold up even under the most basic scrutiny. The United States has a population of 300+ million people. So let’s compare actual % of populations to that of gun crime and gun ownership.
Brazil as a % of population for example has a small amount of guns in the hands of a very few for example. There is a problem however, the murder rate by firearm is drastically higher than in other countries. Brazil, Venezuela, Columbia, and Ecuador combined have more homicides by firearm than the United States, Mexico, South Africa, The Philippines, Honduras, Guatemala, India, El Salvador, Dominican Republic, Bangladesh, Argentina and Jamaica combined.
Private firearms stop 2.5 million potential crimes a year in the United States.
The facts are the facts. History is History. Start thinking with your head. Not your emotions.
You are reduced to comparing the great nation of the United States to lawless third world countries some with dictators like Venezuela, Mexico, South Africa etc…..rather than stable democracies such as Canada, Great Britian and Japan. In order to buttress your point you have been reduced to searching out sad under financed poor countries You have to have a greater belief in Americans and their capacity to better a nation that year after year tragically loses tens of thousands of citizens to senseless gun crime. You must believe that these comparisons cannot be your high water mark, you must be striving to attain crime statistics based on the best countries of the world not the worst.
Again you are mistaken
Venezuela has banned private gun ownership: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-18288430
Brazil = VERY strict gun laws. Guns are only in the hands of a few, yet the homicide rate as a comparative % of population to other developed nations is MUCH HIGHER.
UK = gun crime up despite handgun ban
I’ve compared %’s of populations in relation to gun laws and gun crime. Brazil is not a third world country. It’s a Democracy which has even received Government subsidies from the Obama Administration. The UK is not a third world country. As I stated before and which you repeatedly ignore. Gun Crime skyrocketed in the UK after they passed very strict gun control laws. It increased 400% the first year alone.
Canada ranks 3rd in the developed countries of the world in firearm ownership. Most Canadians who have been polled do not want stricter gun laws. On the contrary, they want less gun control. Violent Crime in Canada has actually increased faster in Canada than the US since strict control laws were passed back in the late 70s.
You keep trying to make the simplistic emotional argument that less guns = less crime. You are mistaken.
Firearms in the possession of morally responsible people does not = more crime. On the contrary it deters crime. Now quit trolling with your Collectivist Authoritarian emotional arguments. It’s embarrassing.
First of all I am not a troll I am a conservative. I have little interest in comparing Canada or the United States to places like Venezuela and Brazil. If these two countries are your comparitives then you will never lose an argument on almost any subject.
Secondly, stop talking about internal crime rates in other democratic countries ie: Canada and U.K. that is a silly comparison if your numbers are correct and I am not sure they are Canada could double their gun crime rate and still be light years behind the U.S. You have not a shred of evidence that shows gun crime and gun deaths are anything but far far greater in U.S. and the one major difference between the U.S. and all other first world democratically elected governments is gun control.
Give me one example where this is not the case, just one please.
You’re a Canadian troll who is ignorant
1) I used other countries including the UK as comparative examples and the examples were percentages of population/legal gun ownership. You keep selectively ignoring previous points I made to create canards, red herrings, and dishonest premises.
Population of Canada = 35 million
Population of US = More than 300 million
You keep trying to fall back onto a simplistic emotional argument which is rooted in a false premise. Your simplistic 4th grade argument that more guns legally owned = more crime is incorrect.
2) The numbers don’t lie. Violent crime in Canada increased after stricter gun control laws were put in place. The majority of Canadians do not want stricter gun control laws. On the contrary, they want less gun control.
Violent crime shot up in the UK after they passed strict gun control laws.
Washington DC for example, as well CT have some of the strictest gun laws on the books within the US. The violent crime rate in DC has surged this year since those strict measures have been put into place. The “Gun Free School Zone” didn’t stop this psychopath from murdering those defenseless and innocent children. An armed, trained, and responsible individual on campus may very well have however.
3) Since 1998 the homicide rate in the US has actually decreased 33% while it has risen 3% in Canada, who has stricter gun laws. I also only need to point to the more than 2 million crimes within the US a year that are prevented because of private gun ownership.
Between 1977 and 1999 deaths in the US due to multiple victim shootings actually decreased 78% when state Governments decriminalized conceal and carry laws. The 800 pound gorilla in the room you keep ignoring are the statistics by state and their individual gun laws. Each state within the US is essentially a sovereign nation with it’s own gun laws. The data is beyond refute. I suggest you set aside your irrational emotions and start educating yourself. Stop ambiguously making absurd and childish arguments in an effort to try and convince us all that we need stricter gun control laws in the US.
In all honesty I don’t really care what some irrelevant Canadian’s opinion is on US Gun Law is anyways. If you want stricter gun control laws. Fight for them within your own country. I don’t feel it is necessary to stop law abiding, moral, and responsible citizenry from owning guns to protect their families to coddle the emotions of Collectivist Authoritarians.
HAHAHAHA Homicides per 100,000 people OK this is a percentage Canada 0.51 Great Britian 0.07 U.S. 2.97 500% higher in the U.S. then Canada.
Why are you debating this point, it is futile! Your mindless logic just means more people die. Being a conservative means you are capable of critical thinking. Try it!
Obvious Canadian Troll continues to obviously troll
Your strawman was already been debunked 3 posts ago. Your own link works against you. The data you are citing assumes that each citizen within the US owns just 1 gun. It’s a false premise. Americans usually own multiple guns which is why comparatively as a % of population is a much better measure. Gun ownership rank compared to gun homicide rank respectively is a far more useful measuring stick. The first 20 or so countries listed in the “data” you provided prove my point irrefutably. There isn’t a higher gun ownership rank than homicide rank. It’s the exact opposite. There is no correlation.
Since Australia’s Gun Ban and Government expenditures to buy up all privately owned guns to the tune of 500 million the statistics are as follows:
1) Assaults involving guns rose 29%
2) Murders with guns rose 20%
3) Armed Robberies increased 69%
4) Home Invasions increased 20%
Criminals do not obey gun laws. You know for someone who claims to be a Conservative and a “critical thinker” you sure are lacking in both areas and looking more and more the fraud with each post. Consider this my last response to your pathetic trolling.
Oh yes you are right the whole world is wrong black is white the sky is green and the grass is blue. Facts don’t matter, lives don’t matter, children don’t matter. What matters is your need to own a common assult gun, rifle you name it.
This mother has these hanging around the house because good lord she needs them and a mentally disturbed child. Just in case the governments agents show up to rape and steal her property. You have the lowest homicide gun rate in the world but you don’t.
Who needs facts when I can surf the web and offer insane statistics that tell people Venezuela is way worse. You can tell them some states have tougher gun laws but they still have problems and some cities too. Everyone knows it is virtually impossible to move these guns across city and state borders due to the border police.
No just keep killing everyone with a murder rate with guns at a far higher rate then anywhere in the first world. Facts, logic common sense who needs them. I gotta gun.
It is a fact, that Chicago, a GUN FREE CITY, has more gun related crime than a city or even a STATE, (like AZ) that has concealed carry, without a permit. Chicago is proof that when you criminalize guns then only criminals will have guns.
This whole notion that everybody and their brother will “arm-up” and start packing and shooting every person that pisses them off is just ignorant. Virtually every gun related crime in AZ is committed with a gun that was stolen or somehow obtained illegally. I’ve been here 9 years and I’ve met exactly 2 people who regularly carry; about the same number I’ve met the rest of my life in states where a permit is required.
Look up auto-related deaths sometime then come back here and tell me we need to outlaw cars and highways.
Furthermore, the low gun crime rate in other countries is anecdotal; when you have a lazy, complacent society that probably wouldn’t defend themselves if they needed to anyway. They’d call on the government to do it for them.
So how do you explain every other democracy in the first world have instituted gun controls, and their shootings with firearms are a fraction of America. Their violent crime rate as well. You may believe what you wrote but don’t be confused into believing it is accurate.
Further states nor cities can pass comprehensive gun control, due to the simple fact guns can be transported across city and state lines because there are no border controls. They are fruitless.
And Great Britian is no longer GREAT Britian, but a part of a failing-in more ways than financial- EURO Nation soon to be global fisaco and with increasing violence on top of it.
You don’t fear your government, my hat’s off to you……….with our freedoms intact We do not fear ours either.
Not sure as an American I would be lecturing anyone on financial responsibility.
In reading your posts, and now with this answer, all you have proven is you have selective reading problems which is a part of the liberal mind set. Financial “lecturing” was such a minor part of my post, a mere passing thought, but, you feel you have to project – that’s right, another liberal tactic, projection- on to me what is your shortcoming, Britian is not Great and violence is increasing there.
The gist of my reply was I’m glad you do not fear your government and you enjoy your symbiotic relationship. I, on the other hand believe in individual freedoms, one of which here in the USA is to bear arms. And the USA is a Great Nation under God…….. no matter what obama says.
PS this may border on lecturing, sorry.
Look I am sorry but I am not a liberal I believe in gun control and have never voted liberal in my life. As far as Great Britian is concearned soaring crime rates only matter when comparing base numbers between countries. They could have a 500% increase in gun crime and the U.S. could have a 1% increase and you violent gun related crime would still be 1000% higher as a percentage of the population than theirs
Now, Frank, let me show you my selective reading…….when you write gun control, all I see is control. That’s my way of reading it.
I wasn’t trying to be selective, I do believe in gun control and also believe it has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to be much more effective at controlling gun related deaths. Further I also believe in individual liberties, and laws for the common good. I just can’t get my mind around with all the available statistics why anyone needs an assault weopon.
Frank8881, when will you and all the others who believe in gun control realize that no amount of laws will stop criminals from obtaining guns? By their very nature criminals are law breakers and don’t obey the law. So the only people you are disarming are the law-abiding citizens who could have saved those children in the school by firing back. Connecticut has some of the strongest gun control laws and it didn’t stop the evil murdering coward from getting hold of guns. He deliberately went where he knew there would be no-one to fight back, a gun-free school zone. I want my kids protected by an armed guard or properly trained teacher who can carry a concealed weapon. I don’t know about Canada, but it takes way too long for police to respond to a shooting here. Innocent law-abiding citizens need to be able to protect themselves, the criminals never obey the gun control laws.
I understand your point and the same one is being made by a number of other people. The problem I am having is no where in the first world democracies does your argument prove to be true.
All of them have some form of gun control or another which is significantly more restrictive then the States. Everyone of these countries violent crime gun rates and related gun deaths are tiny percentage of the United States.
So if you want make this argument you make explain my rebutal, not a person has done that yet and I have asked them all.
Charles really knows what he’s talking about…this so awful…at the end of the day, you have to look at the killer and the circumstances that led him to do such a heinous crime. This guy was messed up in the head, why could someone not catch this before it happened? The lesson we must all learn is that if we ever know someone that is losing grip with right and wrong, it’s our duty to step up and find a solution for the person suffering.
There were no gun control laws at all until the 1960’s and school massacres were unthinkable and unheard of. Where do these psychos get the idea to carry out a massacre? Just walk down the “Action” aisle at the local video store. For decades American TV, Hollywood and video games have made money off selling glorified slaughter as cheap “entertainment”. Now we reap the rewards. Everyone should read, “Stop teaching our kids to kill”, by Dave Grossman. This West Point psychologist proves that violence in the media guarantee bigger and more awful massacres in the future. America is a spiritually sick society, thanks to marxist infiltration and ideological subversion. Only if we turn back to higher spiritual law of love and humility and self control will the national nightmare end. Have we hit bottom yet?
Krauthammer is 100% on point. The same nut that committed these heinous acts could have done more damage driving a car at 40 mph right into the crowd of kids leaving school at the end of the day. Do we then outlaw cars? How about the nut locks all the doors, pours gasoline around the perimeter and sets the building on fire? Do we outlaw gasoline?
The mother was a gun advocate, took both sons to the shooting range. She left her job to stay home with the 20 year old shooter because he had Aspergers Syndrome, problem was she did not lock away the guns……………….
i read where he tried to purchase a rifle during the week and was denied. how do you know that the guns he used were hers and weren’t locked up?
I hate to play devils advocate, but if they were locked up he wouldn’t have had access to them. That is what locked up means, yes?
Mental Health Care in this country has been the red-headed step-child for many, many years. Until we’re willing to address the issues of those with mental health problems and their families, we will continue to see things like this happen.
Mental health in this country is only for the mentally healthy. There is little concern for the truly deranged. Drug them and send them back out into the street hoping they take their meds. Psychiatry was shunned (right fully so) until they started receiving public funding. With that funding they’ve found where the real money is. Depression, Doctors dispensing Psychotropic drugs for flu. Psychotropic drugs to sleep. Ritilin and other dangerous drugs for boys in particular (can’t have those kids acting like kids). Psychiatric involvement in our courts to the detriment of real justice. Psychotropic drugs for post partum depression willing mothers to murder their children. We’ve already woken up to liberalism it’s time to wake up to the harm Psychiatry and Psychotropic drugs are doing to our society. Their own peer publication admits they vote on what will be considered a new mental illness. This is not science. Psychiatry and drug companies need to be brought back under the law.
I don’t expect Krauthhammer to take this viewpoint as he is a Psychiatrist.
Face it – we live in a country in which the readers voted Kim Jong Un the ‘Time Man of the Year’ – in which Hillary and Barack were voted ‘most admired man and woman.’
This is a very sick country.
The posts here seemed to have gotten off the path, however, I couldn’t agree more. In relation to the CT shoooting it seems every talking head, every single solitary elected official, every psychologist, every socialist and every opinionator has put stock into their personal opinions and ideals. Our most outspoken marxists say “let’s ban assault weapons”. But, I want to be somebody, too, with a voice. Had the Mother of Lanza been a responsible gun owner it would be assumed she would have stowed them away from her son or anyone else with a desire to remove them from her home. It is the most responsible thing to do. Guns don’t belong under pillows or leaning in a corner, that’s for cowboys. Go with the grain and not against it and be responsible. It is the first step in retaining our Second Ammendment.
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