By The Right Scoop


Levin on his radio show tonight said that it’s absolutely ridiculous to say that we must declare war to attack Libya. He isn’t defending Obama per se as he feels that if you want the Congress and the people behind you, that you should make your case to them and involve them. But he feels that Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich are completely off base.

Enjoy!

***

UPDATE: I changed the title to better reflect what Levin said. Also please listen to the audio so that you can answer Levin substantively. My summaries are never exhaustive.

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  • http://www.facebook.com/aaron.r.jones Aaron R. Jones

    Well rather than looking to Levin, how ’bout we check out what the document says? Only Congress has the power “To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations; To declare War…To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions…

    I’m not sure I care any more what Levin “feels.”

    We, as conservatives, claim that we recognize that we’ve drifted from following the constitution. It’s no argument to say, “Well, we haven’t declared war in a long time, so who cares?” The worst and most unjust of this war, yes, war in Libya is that we are there under the authority of an unelected world government body known as the U.N. Personally, I believe that that alone violates just war theory – but it sure ain’t conservative. Sigh.

    • http://www.therightscoop.com/ therightscoop

      Did you even listen to the audio? Or did you dismiss him without listening?

      • Earlymusicaj

        sorry, fb posting isn’t working. This is Aaron again:
        Yes, but I’m responding to the written text at the top, “Levin on his radio show tonight said that it’s absolutely ridiculous to say that we must declare war to attack Libya.” and “he feels that if you want the Congress and the people behind you, that you should make your case to them and involve them.”

        I think the case can be made that you could attack a country if they posed an immanent threat, (to our country) but that isn’t Libya. And it really gets my goat when I hear a conservative using the word, “feels…” This really should be cut and dry for a conservative, it makes me so sad to see us playing footsie with the U.N.

        • http://www.therightscoop.com/ therightscoop

          Why don’t you listen to the audio before you dismiss him. My summary is not exhaustive and in fact he makes his case quite well. In other words before you diss him, listen to him.

          • Anonymous

            maybe your summary of what levin said was not adequate. Your summary provoke a WTF, levin said this?!?!

            • http://www.therightscoop.com/ therightscoop

              adequate? That depends on the person. But it is accurate. So if you had a WTF moment, that’s because of what he said, not because of deception on my part.

              • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C63SDNFI55BI6OELTBOZABN7KA Dave

                No one thinks you’re being deceptive. You’re a neo-con that believes that a large centralized government can be used to enforce/force good upon the unwashed masses. @ least you are honest about it.

                • http://www.therightscoop.com/ therightscoop

                  How do you get ‘neo-con’?

                • KeninMontana

                  He was probably dropped on his head as a small child.

                • http://www.therightscoop.com/ therightscoop

                  ha! Yeah I couldn’t wait to hear the logic that got him to neo-con.

                • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C63SDNFI55BI6OELTBOZABN7KA Dave

                  Neo-cons encourage the growth of the military industrial complex as a means of imposition. There’s a huge gulf between the concept of national Defense as envisioned by Reagan and militarism as described by Eisenhower.
                  The concept of war – especially from a biblical perspective – doesn’t have shades of mercy interlaced. It’s something you do all the way or you don’t do at all – otherwise – you create life long enemies that you’ll have to perpetually have to deal with.
                  Levin is as naive and childlike as Obama and he has all the confidence in the world to back it up.

                • http://www.therightscoop.com/ therightscoop

                  It’s like you don’t know me at all.

                • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C63SDNFI55BI6OELTBOZABN7KA Dave

                  Actually – I’ve followed you since shortly after you founded the site, I just haven’t posted. I appreciate your Christian ideals and your enthusiasm – you’re just not well read. However – I recognize from your writing that you have the capacity for it.

                • KeninMontana

                  You’re so far off the mark on Scoop,that you may as well be on the dark side of the moon.

          • GUT_CHECK

            we dont listen to the audio because its so difficult to stomach a whiny, conservative, shameless, self-promoter like levin. his point of view may be of interest on a balanced scale, but the “great one” is a blowhard.

            • http://www.therightscoop.com/ therightscoop

              The Great One is a passionate man. Not everyone may like that, but I love it as do most of my readers.

              The point wasn’t though, that everyone should listen to the audio regardless of whether you like him or not. The point was in fact that if you are going to refute him it helps to listen to him before you do it.

              That is all.

              • GUT_CHECK

                alan west is a passionate, disciplined man
                chris christie is a passionate, prosecutorial expert
                ron paul is a wise, passionate, righteous, moral man who deserves to be president (in my opinion the only truly constitutional candidate of 2008)
                mark “great one” levin is pasionate too – about being whiny, and shameless about his own self-promotion, with a deep root in the blowhard department.

                levin is as difficult to listen to as obama
                they are equal on the “skin-crawl-o-meter”

    • KeninMontana

      Perhaps you should look up the UN charter that congress approved some time ago and no congress has ever made a move to reject. I would also suggest reading The War powers Act of 1973 paying particular attention to Section 8. I don’t agree with it but it is the law.

  • Anonymous

    He makes a good point that Congress CAN do something about it, and no one has had the courage to step up and try (or at least not to my knowledge).

    What bothers me the most about this, is “why?” Why are we there? We were told that with Afghanistan, we were after the Taliban and Al Qaeda and what not. With Iraq it was a matter of national security and the weapons of mass destruction that Saddam was thought to had (I know, I know, that can be debated as well). With Libya, it’s about protecting the people, then its going after Quaddafi, then it’s not about Quaddafi, then it’s to back Europe, etc… Why don’t we have a CLEAR mission? Bush at least made the case and gathered a coalition before doing anything; but with Obama, it’s like we flipped a switch and he jumped out and said, “SURPRISE! MISSILE ATTACKS TODAY!”

    Someone just needs to make a clear case as to why we are there, if they cannot, then Congress needs to step up and get us out. We sure as hell can’t afford it now, and that’s what troubles me the most; Obama always does insane things with a much more sinister reason behind it, I just hope we can expose it before it hits us.

  • Anonymous

    He makes a good point that Congress CAN do something about it, and no one has had the courage to step up and try (or at least not to my knowledge).

    What bothers me the most about this, is “why?” Why are we there? We were told that with Afghanistan, we were after the Taliban and Al Qaeda and what not. With Iraq it was a matter of national security and the weapons of mass destruction that Saddam was thought to had (I know, I know, that can be debated as well). With Libya, it’s about protecting the people, then its going after Quaddafi, then it’s not about Quaddafi, then it’s to back Europe, etc… Why don’t we have a CLEAR mission? Bush at least made the case and gathered a coalition before doing anything; but with Obama, it’s like we flipped a switch and he jumped out and said, “SURPRISE! MISSILE ATTACKS TODAY!”

    Someone just needs to make a clear case as to why we are there, if they cannot, then Congress needs to step up and get us out. We sure as hell can’t afford it now, and that’s what troubles me the most; Obama always does insane things with a much more sinister reason behind it, I just hope we can expose it before it hits us.

  • Mary – MI

    I highly respect Mark Levin, but in this issue I am in total disagreement. Yes, Obama is the Commander & Chief – but it is up to congress “to declare War, grant Letter of Marque, and Reprisal —–” We cannot help it if congress is chosing to be dormant – if John Boehner is acting passive or not stopping any military appropriations. But, Pres. Obama should have and did not due his duty in going before congress and asking their permission to take action.
    We have had too many president’s over the last 100 years overstep their authority and violate their oath to uphold every nuance of their oath to uphold the U.S. Constitution.
    I listened to the audio and I do not agree with Mark Levin on this issue.

  • Browns44

    You know, I think I’m gonna sit this argument out. I plan to the let the left eat the left and not do give them any reason to focus on what the Conservatives in the House should be doing. This is Obama’s war and anything we say will be used against us in the next election.

  • http://www.facebook.com/RonPaulDisciple Robert Timsah

    Yes I watched it and was mortified, but not surprised.

    People like Levin are the worst.. They claim to believe in and support the constitution, but shred it when it’s convenient for them. They care about power, and winning elections – They love centralized power and a large, powerful federal government, and in this case a powerful executive who can declare war when and where he wants to without the approval from congress for 60 days.

    #1. THIS IS A WAR.

    This is another thing these these dishonest, unconstitutional weasels try to do – change the very fact that we all know this is an act of war. Any military activity in which you violate a country’s border with (violent) military force is an act of war by each nation involved. Levin is trying to change the definition of war in order to give the President total control over when HE commits our troops to war. We must let our representatives have control over when we go or do not go to war, least we have a King?

    The War Powers Act itself gives the President the leeway in the event of an imminent attack, and President Obama can’t even meet the imminent threat escape clause.

    Under Levin’s broad war powers interpretation a President can declare war on ANYONE, ANYWHERE, FOR 60 DAYS AND ALL OUR REPRESENTATIVES CAN DO IS ACT AFTER THE FACT? What about the damage done before those 60 days and where’s the voice of the people? Where’s the debate?

    RON PAUL AND DENNIS KUCINICH (BOTH HOUSE MEMBERS) ARE RIGHT!

    The power is supposed to reside with the people through their representatives in our constitutional Republic so we all have a say in any question of war because it’s our military which is fighting on OUR BEHALF. We do not give our President a King-like power to declare war, rather that power is vested in the Congress as it should be and Levin should know this.

    This weasel Levin is trying to squirm around the definition of war, similar to Bill Clinton with the word sex. In both cases you’re witnessing tyrants in a desperate attempt at getting around the clear letter of the law.

    WHY IT’S IMPORTANT

    If there was ever a situation where the United States was under imminent attack then the President has every right to respond. But that in no way applies here and as such is completely unconstitutional on its face. If this intervention is so important than why not bring it before the Congress?

    • Elmerfud71

      I would submit that there is no legitimate reason for being in any other country. Our presence in other countries has nothing to do with self preservation, but rather corporate domination. Corporations run the wars, literally telling our representatives what needs to be done. The amount of private mercenaries in these “wars” is staggering. These wars are about global domination by the corporate elite. It isn’t even as much about money as it is control. These guys print the money, and run the markets. Money is just a necessary vehicle to achieve control.

      If it were about protecting Americans, we wouldn’t have open borders. We fight a “war” against drugs so that drugs are higher in value. Our government grows and ships the drugs while they clamp down on Americans. This has all been in the news. Meanwhile they let the drug cartel pass into the country killing Americans.

      We have infighting about budgets, union control, social programs, and many more and don’t pay attention to the fact the the anti war candidate Obama is sending the corporate controlled military industrial complex into yet another country because they don’t like the dictator anymore.

      This is just after Google brags about starting the who Egypt ordeal. Google has admitted cohesive interaction with government to spy on the public and report to the government.

      People keep talking about “constitution this, and constitution that”, and they don’t realize that the constitution was abandoned by American political powers about eighty years ago, and is only used by national political powers to keep endless debates going.

      We keep buying into these diversions while they shut down our industries, invade sovereign nations, and clamp down with a growing police state here in America.

      As long as we buy into the whole boogy man story, we are doomed to supporting terrorist acts by our government. Which is not actually a legitimate government according to our supreme law.

      Don’t worry though. These loving crony corporate leaders will tell you to drink down some more fluoride, swallow some more aspartame, eat your GMO pesticide ridden food, and get lots of vaccines while also saying that the recession was over in June of 09, the foundations of the economy are strong, and higher levels of radiation are actually good for you. So go get you chest ex-rays at the airport, and look for them in the shopping malls to get an extra little something for your health.

      I almost forgot, go fill out your march madness pics, because as Obama said “its a nice distraction from all that is going on”.

      “hush little baby don’t say a word, governments going to buy you a mocking bird”

      • Anonymous

        You question the wisdom of Archon!? That is seditious! Get ready for your USA PATRIOT Act (a bill authored in 1995 by the current Vice President) and FISA searches and wiretaps. If you’re lucky you’ll maybe get to go through the motions of a trial while the corporate media convicts you before any facts are aired, if any ever are, while fearmongering about the foreign and domestic bugaboos.

        And don’t you dare complain! Afterall, when you were conceived and born you signed the “social contract” by simple virtue of accident the location of your birth, which means you grant consent and lend moral sanction to any and all oppressive actions committed against you and in your name.

        On a lighter note, get rid of all legal tender laws and this entire farce would collapse in months. As it is, if you try and compete with a currency more reliable and worth more, you care labeled and convicted as a “domestic terrorist.”

        http://www.citizen-times.com/article/20110319/NEWS01/110319006/Liberty-Dollar-creator-convicted-federal-court?odyssey=mod%7Cmostview

        • Elmerfud71

          To live in a free nation would be bliss. Actually, just get rid of the “nation” part, and insert society. I don’t think that nations are ever a good thing. As Europeans desired land ownership, I only desire the ability to use it and be left alone. I don’t even care about owning it, except for the purpose of claiming it to keep governments out.

          I guess I just care too much about silly things like life and liberty. I don’t like being poisoned and irradiated by corporations and government. I have this incessant objection to the fruits of my labor being extracted by force by a corrupt governing body to be used for murder and mayhem around the world. Not to mention the tyranny at home.

          I don’t know what is wrong with me. I know that I should love being viewed as a possible terrorist as a citizen in the US. I should get warm fuzzies about millions of men, women, and children being killed with depleted uranium ammunition that will kill millions more over the years. I get to help fund it, and I have a problem with that for some unknown reason.

          I obviously have some brain chemical imbalance. Maybe a psychotropic drug would help make me normal. There are people that want to put lithium in drinking water along with the fluoride. I know that it would help me, but I have this stupid little thing about forced medication.

          What are they gonna do about me. Wait…. Someone is at the door, and there are flashlights and laser beams coming in my window. Why would there be a swat team in my yard?

          Well, gotta go.

          • Anonymous

            OH NOES YOU SOUND LIEK A ANARCHIST!!!!111!!!1!!one

            Your 12 years of compulsory government indoctrination obviously didn’t take, and we just can’t have that. Now stop your whining and be a good little compliant piece of tax-cattle.

            And here I was thinking I was the only anti-statist commenter on this website…

            • KeninMontana

              I used to think syndicalists were nuts,then I encountered the “Paulians”, AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH………………… ;)

              • Anonymous

                Lol, Yeah, those Ronulans can get a little crazy. I agree with him most of the time but I’ll never be a groupie of his, as I’d rather go to the source of his philosophy than simply try to pick it up by osmoses through him.

                • KeninMontana

                  It does tend to lose something in the “translation”. (like so many other things)

                • Anonymous

                  He’s just bad at TV appearances, and public speaking of the kind where you are at a podium with a crowd. When he grills Bernanke and shows up on tv shows where its 1v1 with a talking head he’s great.

                  I’m terrible at public speaking too, and in arguments I tend to assume first, second, and third principles and skip to the conclusion so I’m no better. But you don’t have to be a good public speaker to recognize another bad one.

    • Anonymous

      You wrote this about Mark Levin:

      “People like Levin are the worst.. They claim to believe in and support the constitution, but shred it when it’s convenient for them. They care about power, and winning elections – They love centralized power and a large, powerful federal government, and in this case a powerful executive who can declare war when and where he wants to without the approval from congress for 60 days.”

      I don’t know what you’ve been smoking but you should really give up.

  • Gboya

    If you don’t know where Levin is coming from then you need to read his book Liberty and Tyranny. Makes his show so much more applicable.

  • Anonymous

    Morrison R. Waite has weighed in on Natural Born Citizen confirming and validating Vattel and John Jay. This presents a very serious problem for the U.S. Supreme Court because I believe that they are very much aware of it! The SCOTUS knows that the Founding Fathers meant Natural Born Citizen to mean being born to a mother and father who are both U.S. citizens!

    The SCOTUS and Chief Justice John Roberts have painted themselves into a corner. They have to either agree with Morrison R. Waite or find away to discredit Morrison R. Waite! But to do so also means that they will start and open up the much needed national discourse on NATURAL BORN CITIZEN and how it has pertinence and relevance to the usurper Obama! It also means that they will also have to acknowledge all the preponderance of Historical Facts addressing Natural Born Citizen.This is why I say people need and must start using the names of Morrison R. Waite and John Jay in this discussion more and more! If we are to win we must make John Jay and Morrison R. Waite household names!

    I don’t know why the U.S. Supreme Court is helping the government carryout this act of treason to the United States of America and the U.S. Constitution. But it does appear that their best line of defense is ignorance. To not even allow a discussion to begin. In other words, to betray the American People to them is more important than admitting that America has an Illegal Usurper living in our White House!

    • Elmerfud71

      The supreme court is corrupt as well. They are appointed by the highest level of corruption. They recently ruled that Chicago cannot take away a person’s right to own a gun, but they can regulate it to the point of non use. Seems to me that the court doesn’t understand the few simple lines in the second amendment, or the basis for them being there. A junior high school student wouldn’t have a problem understanding it, but the Supreme Court can’t figure it out.

      Anyone who takes comfort in believing that the constitution will protect them from government, need only look at the Patriot Act, or the health care bill. Or hundreds of other pieces of legislation that take the simplest of rights away from Americans.

      As they finish destroying any semblance of prosperity and freedom that we have, more people will hopefully wake up to these things and realize that we do not have a representative government any longer. Spreading democracy around the world is a joke. Democratic dictators is more like it. We spread what our government wishes they could do.

  • Tyler

    Yes. If you absolutely trust the government without question, then Levin is absolutely right.

    Seeing as how they’re not calling it a war…then it could technically be perfectly constitutional to declare a “police action.” My question though is why didn’t we call the Afghanistan and Iraq invasions just “police actions,” since that’s what those were and still are to this day? We called those wasteful debt-incurring abominations “wars,” which were never actually declared yet this is somehow different because…? (crickets chirp)

    • Anonymous

      That’s easy, Afghanistan was right after 9/11 when everyone was terrified that the next time they took a dump that Bin Laden would crawl out of their butts and suicide bomb their bathrooms.

      Iraq was less than two years afterwards when America was still in a fevered pitch of flag waving jingoism and deified faith in Bush & his government. If you didn’t support world-wide perpetual war then that meant you were anti-military, anti-America, a traitor, a terrorist sympathizer, and should be sent to egypt to be tortured with the rest of them. It didn’t matter that ever word of Powell’s speech was BS. It didn’t matter that every single word of it was refuted shortly after. It didn’t matter that the 20,000 page document detailing Sadam’s programs sent by himself was the single most accurate piece of information in the whole sordid mess and that it was stolen in the night.

      And today, if you don’t support this nonsense in Libya then you’re a weak little Mary who is actively supportive of civilian genocide, or so they say.

      The “law” only matters when the government says it matters and when it can get away with saying it doesn’t matter. Total bullsh*t color coded fearmongering threat levels is a good way to scare people into not caring.

      • Tyler

        What actually makes this worse is the fact that Obama did the exact opposite of what Bush did. Bush got approval from Congress, but not the UN while Obama gets approval from the UN, but not from Congress. As much as I’m against all 3 of these…it’s absolutely atrocious to me that our president would consort with foreign governments yet not his own people…and people still think globalization is a conspiracy theory. Haha.

        • Anonymous

          The key deal is that neither president had to go to Congress. The most either had to do was notify them about bombing Libya within 48 hours. And Obama didn’t even have to do that since this is the US abiding by it’s “obligations” to the UN charters, meaning it’s just living up to a treaty long ago approved by Congress already.

          • Elmerfud71

            Isn’t it ironic that the patriot tribal leaders of this country are the very ones selling us out to world government? Kinda makes those who think our government is protecting us look a little silly.

            • Anonymous

              They would look silly regardless of global governance utopianism in their beloved archons. Patriotism is nothing more than glorified Stockholm Syndrome and thanking the government for protecting you is like the cow thanking the farmer for feeding it before getting shipped off to the slaughterhouse.

        • Elmerfud71

          I tend to believe that when the markets crash and the dollar is devalued to the level of the peso, that we will enter into a global financial constitution such as Gordon Brown talked about. There has been a plan in the works for some time to switch to a global fiat SDR reserve currency controlled by the IMF. This is why I believe that they are spending whatever it takes to set up this massive control grid around the world and in America. They don’t care about the dollar anymore, and they are trying to get the most out of it before it fails.

          In the midst of this crisis, we will likely hand over our troops to UN control. They will use foreign troops in the US to control the masses, while using US troops in other countries as they are now. Posse Commotatus was negated by the Patriot Act, so military has an open door to police civilians as they did in Catrina.

          World government will consist of the IMF, the UN, and the Trilateral Commission. We will be subject to them all through treaty and financial dependence. We will be a part of the North American Union that has been fought for for a couple of decades now.This is why we have NAFTA and GATT and open borders. Canadians, Americans, and Mexicans will all be one people. We will still remain Americans, just North Americans.

          This is your world government in a nut shell.

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  • Anonymous

    So, if it is Obama’s intention to rid the world of another evil dictator, why does the US not have troops in Yemen,Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, Somalia or for that matter, Egypt….and on and on and on?

    Seems to me that his quest for democracy is rather hypocritical and selective as it was his government that let the Lockerbie bomber go back home to Libya.

    Now, he is backpedaling on this saying that IF the rebels win power, he will demand the bomber be sent to the US for trial. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2011/03/06/barack-obama-orders-lockerbie-bomber-al-megrahi-be-seized-115875-22969487/

    The way this was handled reminds me of one of their earmarks buried in another bill to be slipped past the Congress for approval. If it is truly a war, it has to be debated in Congress and a vote taken.

    It’s Obama’s war, one he can’t blame on Bush and he has to step up to the plate and take the blame/credit for what happens.

    • Tyler

      You should see how The Daily Show addressed it by having a fake commercial about “freedom packages.”

    • Elmerfud71

      Bombing military compounds, government buildings, and civilians is not war. It is called a “no fly zone”. That is all that we are doing.

  • Wraith67

    I usually agree with Levin’s points, but on this one I don’t like the lawyerly weasling with “ambiguities” in the constitution. Having said that, we’ve been violating the constitution for decades by having a standing army.

    There is no question whether this is a war or not: This is a war, we were the ones that conducted an act of war by attacking a sovereign country. Were anybody to fly across our border and blow up our tanks and fighter aircraft, there would be no doubt.

    • Elmerfud71

      By that logic, we shouldn’t be anywhere doing anything that we are. Are you one of those Ron Paul supporters?

    • KeninMontana

      You don’t read the Constitution much do you? Art.1 Sec.8
      “To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
      To provide and maintain a Navy;
      To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;” there’s the authorization for a “standing Army”.

  • sDee

    The US Senate is calling hearings on Muslim rights.