Mark Levin: Zimmerman affidavit doesn’t support probable cause for 2nd degree murder

Mark Levin walks through the State of Florida’s affidavit for probable cause to charge George Zimmerman with 2nd degree murder, and he just doesn’t see probable cause given how 2nd degree murder is defined.

Listen below:

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  • Race riots anyone?

    • guilty or riot

    • NonElite

      Unfortunately that is not a joke. There are just too many of them out there itching for some blood in the streets and the Sharptons, Panthers and Farrakhans are too eager to fuel those fires.
      The really terrible thing is the folks in the MSM who aren’t speaking out against them.

    • StrangernFiction

      Let ’em riot. I hope they do. It would be the best thing that could happen to this country. Apathy is the Left’s greatest asset. Waking people up is not in their best interest.

    • ProbableCause

      There won’t be any riots about this case. There will be vociferous debate about fair trials and fair prosecution, profiling, the role of neighborhood watch, gun control and stand your ground laws.

      • JoetheFilmmaker

        Says who? You? Rofl. That means I am laughing at you. Blacks are itching for riots.

        What do you think will happen when Obama is kicked all the way to hell in November? Do you actually think Chris Rock and the rest of the racists black population will allow Obama to be replaced without a fight or a riot?

        It sounds like you just moved here from London or something. I hope the blacks do riot after Obama is booted back to Marxville. We then will have legal right o fight back and kill em all.

        • ProbableCause

          Oy gevalt.

        • jerryg1018

          The undereducated ghetto Blacks might be itching for an excuse to riot but the majority mainstream Blacks are not looking to riot. Do you see middle class Blacks on the TV new talking trash? No, what you see are street punks running of at the mouth for the camera and the chance to say, “Look Ma, I’m on TV.”

  • RocklinConservative

    Is it against the law to follow someone? Does a person deserve to have their brains bashed in just because they follow someone?

    • CPAguy

      It certainly doesn’t give them reason to kill somebody.

      • RocklinConservative

        No … (but before that happened) Zimmerman didn’t deserve to have his brains bashed in either.

        • bbjaylive

          His brains weren’t bashed in. Don’t be so ridiculous. Did he look paralysed yesterday?

          • StNikao

            If he had not shot Trayvon, Zimmerman would be dead.

            • thats an unfair and biased assumption. unless you were there and witnessed what happend without presumption of course, then it could be fact.

          • RocklinConservative

            He was assaulted for following a guy… some say he shouldn’t have shot the kid, but I come from the personal responsibility meme … the kid shouldn’t have attacked him.

            Treyvon could have also just walked away. He could have called 911 and said someone “suspitious” was following HIM. Why did HE have to take it into his own hands by attacking someone when there was no threat?

            • if I was being followed and had reason to fear for my life, I might not wait for 911 to interview me and determine that dispatching someone is needed. Trayvon may have feared for his life. we dont know.


        If you were 5’8 and a some dude 6’2 or 6’3 punched you in the face and broke your nose and got on top of you and kept bashing your head into the concrete…… I bet you would feel differently. Remember…. the Martin family only put’s up pictures of the guy at about 12 years old or so.

        • JoetheFilmmaker

          Keep in mind he had a gun, which could have been taken away and used to kill him. It multiplies the danger tenfold, which makes killing this thug virtuous and 100% legal.

          • or it could have been used to threaten the kid whcih then led to the kid trying to save his life which would have resutled in gettin shot himself. no one knows what happend and yet, I hear all the possibilities implying who must be guilty of what.

        • how come we have not seen any reports stating “broken” nose? heard on the court today that they have a medical report but never acknowledged that it stated “broken” nose.

    • StNikao

      The only crime according to Black Panther Street Law is being white and defending yourself.

      The Black Panthers consider the US Constitution and law enforcement to be ‘white man’s law’ and they have declared it is invalid, they have stated they are not US citizens.

      Evidently they are Muslims (and adhere to Sharia?) connected to Islam through Ferrakhan’s Nation of Islam (and have been tied to Hezbollah)

      Black Panther who issued the $10,000. reward was arrested for possession by a felon: “A high-ranking member of the New Black Panther Party was arrested for possession of a firearm by a convicted felon, the DeKalb County Sheriff’s Office said Monday.”
      “The group appears to have borrowed its name from the black power movement of the 1960s and ’70s, co-founded by Huey P. Newton and Bobby Seale. But, which is maintained by the Huey P. Newton Foundation and dedicated to fostering Newton’s memory, posted an alert on its website distancing itself from the group. “There is no New Black Panther Party,” the site says, denouncing the group as exploiting the Black Panther name and heritage and saying they are “trying to incite hatred rather than resolve it.”,0,7849382.story

      Therefore, like Michelle Williams (of Tampa) they can call for vengeance and violence with impunity and imunity under AG Holder:

      If Obama and Holder support them in unlawful actions – Obama and Holder must be impeached…or this nation is dead.

      • i would be interested in knowing if anyone who claims that Obama marched with the NEW black panthers, will ever show a picture or video of that actually happening. also can someone clue me in on how this ties to the zimmerman case?

    • JoetheFilmmaker

      It’s funny. This case comes down to was Zimmerman in fear for his life. These charges have Obama’s fingerprints all over it.

      Does anyone know if Obama secretly contacted anyone involved in this case? I can guaranty anyone that this charge was brought down by none other than Barack Obama himself.

      I can’t wait to open up his records next year and find out who he really is.

    • following someone, especially someone not doing anything wrong, creates cause for someone to fear for their life. you scare me, my adrenaline will result on you ending up hospitalized. not threatening you or anyone, just making the example of what could happen if I fear for my life.

  • Just finishing this segment as I listen to the show. I posted my opinion in a headline post on this site, but it’s not meant to fly. DOJ is going to play a race game once this gets thrown out.

    • StrangernFiction

      Good. This is not a winning issue for them.

  • justrighton

    IMHO The second degree murder charge was filed but with the knowledge all along that it couldn’t be supported sufficiently to keep him locked up. This was done to prevent rioting by the blacks. I think the rioting will happen when he is acquitted as he should be…just one mans opinion.

    • Asian_chic

      I would have to disagree. Zimmerman will have to stand trial among his peers. I just don’t think he will be able to get a fair trial. We will not know if he will be acquitted or not, nor does the prosecutor. Sadly, you are right about the riots.

      • justrighton

        I think you’re right about not getting a fair trial.

    • sDee

      I agree that they must have known this would be dismissed or return not-guilty. From what I hear the Seminole/Brevard Attorney who reviewed the police and DA decisions was one of their best. So it is a good bet that, not only did the case not support 2nd degree murder, it probably does not justify any charges.

      Governor Scott screwed the pooch early on. The very second that he caved to the NAACP strong arming and reopened the case, they knew they had won. Scott should have stood by his attorneys, told the NAACP he had a rock solid case and they could take a hike. He could have taken them on in a Federal court, or more than likely this all would have drifted away.

      I agree that it sounds like the charges were designed to not stick. So the race baiters get their riots. Maybe they have a black judge who is willing to toss it. Are we living in a third world country or what?

      Obama’s America: Why Black Grievance Will Never End

    • bbjaylive

      You’re ridiculous and so’s your opinion. You haven’t got more facts than the court, so stop trying to act like it. You’re letting your bigotry seep through your “just one mans opinion”.

      • E. Lee Zimmerman

        Awwww. Mommy’s asleep, so you get computer time?

        • bbjaylive

          Really? E. Lee Zimmerman? You’re taking this way too personally.

          • KenInMontana

            You are the one that made it “personal” with your juvenile trolling. Good bye.

  • A different take…

    Every day, 5 days each week, I listen to, in this order, Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Mark Levin.

    It is commentary that is informative… EXCEPT for one vital bit of Constitutional news about Article 2, Section 1, Clause 5.

    So, this is an informed comment about the “media blackout,” as Sheriff Joe Arpaio called the silence about his March 1, 2012 “Cold Case Posse” news conference, where he revealed that fraud and forgery has been committed by somebody in the BHObama administration concerning the fraudulent birth certificate that was posted on the Federal Government White House website.

    It is appropriate for Mark Levin to take 10 minutes of his radio program to comment about a murder in America, and whether George Zimmerman is being framed.

    My different take has to do with Mark’s silence…
    … about the March, 1, 2012 Sheriff Joe Arpaio “Cold Case Posse” news conference where fraud and forgery was reported about BHObama’s birth certificate and Selective Service Number card.

    This is from –

    – – – – – – – – –

    What do you think Mark?

    Hi Mark, I have been listening to your topical commentary since the local radio station started carrying your daily 2 hour program, which has been 3 hours for a long time now.

    Mark, when you speak, I listen.
    Mark, when you write, I read.

    Mark, when your listeners and readers speak, do YOU listen?

    Mark, that is stated simply for context about my daily radio listener informed opinion and my “Liberty and Tyranny” and “Ameritopia” reader informed opinion that follows.

    Mark, why have you NOT spoken about the Sheriff Joe Arpaio “Cold Case Posse” news conference on March 1, 2012?

    Is there no legal there there?
    Is that a legal “utopia” so there is merit?

    Does the law of the Republic, the U.S Constitution, specifically Article 2, Section 1, Clause 5 NOT warrant comments as relative to the “insurrection” and concomitant flaunting of law that you talk about daily?

    Mark, does it NOT matter to you that it appears that the “insurrection” seems to have been premeditated and then perpetrated by BHObama and whoever is pulling his puppet strings, and that it is related to his heritage, and now there is probable cause to pursue a criminal investigation that Sheriff Joe Arpaio has said is the conclusion of his “Cold Case Posse” when they investigated for six months and found that fraud and forgery has absolutely… ABSOLUTELY… been committed concerning BHObama’s birth certificate and Selective Service Card?

    Mark, are you NOT even curious about this legal aspect of this eligibility issue and it’s relationship to the “insurgency” that appears to have been perpetrated by the Marxist Saul Alinsky acolyte when he managed to successfully OCCUPY the Oval Office as a major player in what appears to be a premeditated putsch?

    And for our friends who might not know what the German word “putsch” means, here is the American Heritage Dictionary quick and easy definition.

    putsch, also Putsch (pooch) n. A sudden attempt by a group to overthrow a government.
    putschist n.

    Mark, is the OCCUPIER-in-Chief a “putschist” or not?
    Mark, is the OCCUPIER-in-Chief attempting to overthrow the government or not?

    Mark, did the OCCUPATION begin when BHObama took the oath of office or when he decided to skirt the ORIGINAL intent of the ORIGINAL words of the ORIGINAL “birther” document of the Republic, the U.S. Constitution, specifically Article 2, Section 1, Clause 5?

    Mark, I am not even a lawyer, and it appears that I am, and there are so many more, I’m sure, who seem to be more informed about Article 2, Section 1, Clause 5 than you, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck, David Barton and, that wonderful Lady with the “servant’s heart,” our friend Sarah Palin, are informed.

    Why do I say that?

    Because you guys and gals NEVER talk about Article 2, Section 1, Clause 5, that’s why,.

    You do NOT relate currents events, such Sheriff Joe Arpaio and his “Cold Case Posse” investigation, either tangentially or specifically, to the ORIGINAL intent of the ORIGINAL words of the ORIGINAL “birther” document, the U.S. Constitution, specifically Article 2, Section 1, Clause 5.

    Why is that?

    Are you guys not informed about Article 2, Section 1, Clause 5, the ONLY place in the founding documents where the words, “natural born Citizen” are mentioned?

    Mark, until you speak UP… your silence is curious.

    Mark, could something else other than a lack of intellectual curiosity be prohibiting your entering THIS arena of ideas?

    Mark, continue talking and informing the people about the legal events as they arise in the news.

    Mark, please study Article 2, Section 1, Clause 5, and become informed. Your lawyer’s heart may find an affinity with Mario Apuzzo ( ) … .

    After you study and become informed, please, Mark, get UP and speak UP and talk about Article 5 and the “natural born Citizen” eligibility requirement to be POTUS with informed authority… for the benefit of your future listeners and future voters.

    The “birther” appellation and the concomitant “I am a birther” appellation is a reference to the honorable, yes, HONORABLE response to the uninformed “anti-birther” to PROTECT and DEFEND the ORIGINAL intent of the ORIGINAL words of the ORIGINAL “birther” document of our Republic, the U.S. Constitution, specifically Article 2, Section 1, Clause 5, the ONLY place in ALL of the founding documents where the contrast is made between a “natural born Citizen” and a “Citizen” in the SAME clause and in the SAME sentence.

    – – – – – – – – –

    From March 1, 2012 to April 12, 2012… NO comment… yet from Mark, Rush, Sean, Glenn, Sarah and 99% of common sense Conservative news blogs.



    • TANGO40

      Great post!

      • Thanks…

        The truth, about ANY President, black OR white, has NO agenda.

        Truth has no agenda other than to protect the innocent “we the people” of the American Republic from the insurrection by the insurgent who has managed to OCCUPY the Oval Office in what seems to be a putsch to “transform” America from an individualist constitutional republic to an collectivist democratic commune.


        • TANGO40

          Democracies never last, because, they are highly corrupt… and that is why our “Founding Fathers” made the United Sates a Constitutional Republic… “We the People” are eventually going to have to fight to save our “Republic”…or sit back and watch it Die…

          • sDee

            It is up to us.

            No one is coming to save us.

    • Excellent EXCELLENT Art. Thank you! PS- I’ve missed you, hope all is well with you my friend!

      • Thanks to you too AmericanBornInCanada…

        I’ve been spending hours of creative thinking time and creative writing time on writing the “conversation” that I’ve titled

        “The U.S. Constitution: The ORIGINAL “Birther” Document Of The United States.”

        The above post about Mark Levin is part of it.


        • sDee

          Great news Art.

          btw I see Leo Donofrio closed up shop at Natural Born Citizen. He did a very thorough analysis of Minor v. Happersett that I was really hoping Mark Levin would analyze and review.

    • sDee

      The silence is telling Art.

      I believe Barack Hussein Obama should be declared ineligible based on his claim that Obama Sr. was not a US citizen (jus sanguini). That alone should be clear cut according to the Article 2 Section 1 and Minor v. Happersett. You’d think just on the surface, Mark would want to talk about that. It is a core Constitutional issue and very intriguing.

      People cannot seem to quickly grasp the parentage (jus sanguini) part of eligibility, but can grasp eligibility based on being borne on US soil (jus soli). So, I believe the badly Photoshopped birth certificate was released intentionally as a distraction. A conspiracy theory about a forged BC, would draw the crowds away from the real conspiracy that Obama admitted his own ineligibility based on his father’s Kenyan citizenship.

      Another thing Mark and others are silent on is McCain’s ineligibility. He was not born on US soil and everyone knew he was ineligible according to the Article 2 Section 1. So here is a very interesting Constitutional issue: Nancy Pelosi snuck through a House resolution “deeming” McCain eligible anyway but the House has no power to void the Constitution. Silence all around there too.

      Just because its a conspiracy, does not mean it is theory.

      • Dittos sDee – “Just because…”

        The wolf is present in sheep’s clothing and the 99%, the major media, including “thought leader” BIG talkers and writers on Radio – TV – Print – Online (Facebook and Twitter) are silent… chirp, chirp, chirp.


        As Sheriff Arpaio said about the 99% media “blackout,” his word, at the 2nd gathering March 31, 2012 –

        -“What, have I got the plague, or something?
        -“I get on national TV with pink underwear.
        -“I can’t even get on with this … (not clear – audience applause).
        -“Never seen anything like it.

        – – – – – – – –

        This is from the “conversation” –

        “These are the two law terms that refer to “parent (by blood- sanguinis)” and “place (soil-soli)”

        “(1) jus sanguinis for birth parents – the child is a born citizen with the reference to blood, aka parent.
        “(2) jus soli for birth place – the child is born with citizenship acquired from the soil on which one is born, aka place.

        “These are the two major SCOTUS decisions.

        “(1) Minor v. Happersett, 88 U.S. 162 (1875).
        “(2) U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898).


        • MSpector

          Minor v Happersett is not authority on the question of what constitutes a “natural born citizen”. That case had nothing to do with what that phrase means, since the only issue in the case was whether the right to vote was one of the “privileges or immunities of citizenship” under the 14th Amendment. Nobody argued that Ms Minor was not a US citizen, and nobody contended that you had to be a “natural born citizen” in order to qualify to vote. The discussion in Minor is dictum only, especially since the court only states that there are differences over what the phrase means while also saying they are not going to address that issue in the case.

          I wish Minor said what you want it to say, but it doesn’t. Wishing doesn’t make it so.

      • bbjaylive

        Silence is you and your birtherism’s best friend.

    • bbjaylive


      Spare us from your birther nuttery

      • StNikao


      • StNikao

        Obama’s friend, Wm. Ayers, fancies himself an expert forger. He has falsified identities for his Weather Underground friends. Those who know, have traced Obama living under several false names/identities, besides those we have been told (Obama, Soetero)

        The truth will eventually come to light and be told.

      • Nukeman60

        Spare us from your ignorance of the Constitution.

    • StNikao
      • “… released by the White House”…

        Thanks for the 2 AmericanThinker links, StNikao.

        The last paragraph comment by Giuseppe Gori in the first article is a bullseye.

        “Of course, none of the above has anything to do with where Mr. Obama was born,


        it all has everything to do with
        a forged document
        released by
        the White House.”

        Read more:

        Crime #1 –
        Committed by the higher authority who suborned silence by the birth certificate compiler on Federal Government computer.

        Crime #2 –
        Committed by the compiler of the fraudulent birth certificate on a Federal Government computer.

        Crime #3 –
        Committed by whoever hit “enter” on the Federal Government keyboard and thus posting a fraud and forgery on the Federal Government White House web site.

        Crime #4 –
        Well, the history books will fill in whether or not putative President BHObama committed an impeachable “high crime and misdemeanor” by affirming in public that the document visible on the Federal Government White House web site was his birth certificate.

        If the HIGHEST authority to give the OK to post the fraudulent birth certificate on the Federal Government White House web site was NOT BHObama, well, then, WHO authorized the compilation of a fraudulent birth certificate and WHO authorized posting it online?

        PS. StNikao.

        The “anti-birther” nuttery of bbjaylive is obvious.


        He, she, whoever, does not articulate coherently beyond “anti-birther” shallow thinker knee-jerkery.

        At least he, she, whoever, does NOT write anything of substance and was the time of thoughtful people on this forum.


    • RocklinConservative
  • Doesn’t Zimmerman just need 1 juror against any guilty conviction and he would be acquitted of the charges?

    • I have to wonder…. when they get the jury, will the black panthers publish their addresses? Spike may have apologized for tweeting the wrong one for Zimmerman, but it wouldn’t surprise me that some of these would do the same of whoever sits on that jury. Lord, this is gonna be a mess!

      • E. Lee Zimmerman

        Spike Lee will probably tweet the entire Sanford address book, at that point.

    • no… one juror holding out would create a hung jury, at which point the call a mistrial. The prosecutor can then try the case again in front of a new jury. This can continue until one jury unanimously finds the defendant “guilt” or “not guilty.” It doesnt run afoul the “double jeopardy” clause because that clause ensures that a person cannot be tried for the same crime after already prior being convicted or acquitted of that crime.

    • ProbableCause

      No, acquittal also requires a unanimous verdict. If there is one holdout, it’s a mistrial — a do-over.

  • CPAguy

    He’ll probably plead down to reckless endangerment or something along those lines.

    • MaxineCA

      He shouldn’t plead to squat if he is not guilty. It is absolutely unethical to overcharge to intimidate to pressure someone into a plea deal. DA’s do it as a scare tactic. So pile that onto threats to GZ’s life. Great…….. I wouldn’t want to be him. Sure hope this new attorney is good and won’t take the easy way out.

      • StNikao

        EVERY DAY THAT HOLDER AND OBAMA DO NOT speak out and/or call for the arrest of the Black Panthers (from Malik Z Shabazz to Michelle Williams, Tampa) calling for violation of US law and violence, they are both impeachable.

        Holder and Obama have already violated many laws and ethics with impunity.
        They have been allowed to do so by our cowardly justices, judges and legislators.

      • palintologist

        Even though she’s the D.A., could the charge against Zimmerman be seen as SO meritless and egregious that he could sue for malicious prosecution AND defamation?

        • MaxineCA

          I was thinking the same, if he is exonerated. Not only the DA’s office, but defamation suites against all the “congress critters”, NBPP, and everyone that took to the airwaves and defamed him.

          If he is found not guilty, we can easily expect riots in the streets of Sanford. If I were a citizen of Sanford, I would put the city on notice that if any harm is done to my family or personal property, they will be held accountable and appropriate legal actions would be taken. NBPP has already called for blood in the streets.

  • MaxineCA

    This whole situation makes me sick and very, very angry. They will do anything to push their agenda including destroying a man’s life (Zimmerman’s) but do nothing about the NBPP posting the bounty. I’ve been following this since they story first broke and knew it was odd from the beginning. There a few details I remember that aren’t really being reported.

    Here’s how I see it as a possibility based on what I’ve read and heard:

    George was following Trayvon while on the 911 call. He was calm and followed him to the back of the townhouse building. When Trayvon saw him he ran. George told the dispatcher he (Trayvon) was running and lost sight of him. George was told not to follow him, and he said OK. They told him they would have a patrol car meet him and asked for the address. Since George was BEHIND the townhouse building he didn’t know the exact address and ran to the front to get an address. Thus, the running sound on the phone. Who knows what happened after that, but I don’t believe that George was in pursuit, other than to get an address to give the dispatcher.

    I may not have the timeline exact, but you get what I’m saying. I also found it odd that the regular DA didn’t find evidence to arrest or prosecute George from the beginning but once the race card was played that SP Corey seemed to take great pleasure in filing 2nd degree murder. That is huge leap! Disgusting.

    • E. Lee Zimmerman

      Normally (normally), I wouldn’t agree with you, b/c I try to resist anything that resembles ‘conspiratorial’ thinking when it comes to politics. When it comes to people? Yeah, I’ll give in way more. BUT given how much this prosecutor’s pre-speech speech sounded like a campaign speech to me, I’m far more inclined to believe that, perhaps, the word came down from on high to find some way — any way, no matter how thin — to charge Zimmerman.

      Also, I’m in complete agreement with you that something stinks when it comes to the fact that the original DA didn’t seek any charge against Zimmerman but, lo and behold, the prosecutor comes forward with a 2nd degree murder charge AFTER reviewing evidence so quickly. Clearly, something MAY have been obtained SINCE the DA examined the evidence, but, if that’s the case, then there was some pretty sloppy police work done prior to anything new coming to the front.

      Now, I will say this: while I don’t think George was “in pursuit” (I guess I just don’t see the facts to support that conclusion, despite him saying he was following for the expressed purposes of obtaining an address), BUT, knowing human nature, I can’t help but wonder if he wasn’t “hanging back” waiting to see IF the police responded. If that were the case, then this appears — as I can’t help but think it is — a huge, horrible, classic case of misunderstanding on Trayvon AND Zimmerman’s part, which is what I think it is.

  • ProbableCause

    The 911 statement “these assholes always get away” is sufficient to take to a jury as evidence of a depraved mind. That’s the law. The bottom line is that both Mr. Zimmerman and the citizens of Florida will have their day in court. At that time, the state will have the burden of proving its case beyond a reasonable doubt. This affidavit requires only probable cause. Please note that Mr. Zimmerman’s lawyer have decided not to dispute probable cause.

    • MaxineCA

      So how many citizens are frustrated with unsolved crimes and could say they same thing? It doesn’t make them criminals. So does that mean those that are fed up with crime in their neighborhoods have depraved minds?

      • ProbableCause

        If I were on the jury I would agree with you unless the state presents more evidence to convince me otherwise. However, I do believe the circumstances here require a jury to make the final decision, particularly because of race issues. I don’t think Mr. Zimmerman is a racist. In fact, the Affidavit makes it clear that the State has decided NOT to charge Zimmerman with a racist hate crime. But it cannot be denied that there is a widespread belief that young black men often seem more suspicious than young white men. It is because of that widespread belief that the People need to have their day in court.

        • Mike Lee

          “But it cannot be denied that there is a widespread belief that young black men often seem more suspicious than young white men.”

          It’s not a belief. It’s the truth. Young black men commit far more crime than other groups, thus they are looked upon with greater suspicion. Makes perfect sense to me, but then, I’m not a liberal. Blacks don’t like the reality so they scapegoat and cry victimhood. Their reputation has been earned. It’s not racism. It’s reality. Racism would be to trust whites more than blacks despite there being no evidence that blacks commit more crime. I wish that were the case.

          • ProbableCause

            You hit on the crux of the matter. Yes, statistics provide a foundation for the belief that any particular young black man is more likely to be up to no good than any particular young white man. The jury must decide how these statistics might apply to the Stand Your Ground defense. By statute, that defense is generally not available to someone like Zimmerman who is not standing his ground but is actually pursuing the ultimate victim…. unless Zimmerman reasonably believed that Martin was committing or about to commit a crime.

            You seem to be saying that the belief that Martin was up to no good was statistically more reasonable because Martin was black. Are you saying that Stand Your Ground is a stronger defense when the victim is black?

            • MaxineCA

              You don’t know that GZ was pursuing Trayvon at the time of the incident. I think he may have been trying to get an address to give to the dispatcher. You seem to be biased in this debate and not considering all of the possibilities. So much for an open mind…… What would you do as an attorney (retired), to stand up for justice, including Zimmerman’s?

              • ProbableCause

                I based my statement on the transcript of the 911 call. At 2 minutes 24 seconds the dispatcher says, “Are you following him?” At 2 minutes 25 seconds Zimmerman says, “Yes.”

                I’m not saying that Zimmerman is guilty. I’m not saying the 911 transcripts prove anything. In fact, Zimmerman is innocent until proven guilty. I just can’t find any fault or conspiracy behind the State wanting a trial in this matter.

                As far what I would do if I were defense counsel. I hate to speculate based on the bits and pieces of information that is public. But I will anyway. I’d go after a plea deal for manslaughter and a max of 10 years.

                I have a hunch, though, that the prosecution won’t offer a plea bargain because of the widespread publicity.

                • Nukeman60

                  I based my statement on the transcript of the 911 call. At 2 minutes 24 seconds the dispatcher says, “Are you following him?” At 2 minutes 25 seconds Zimmerman says, “Yes.” ‘ – pc

                  The followup conversation was, ‘We don’t need you to do that’, to which Zimmerman said, ‘Ok’, with more conversation following, which we don’t have available. The altercation happened after all that, so we don’t know (although the police might) whether he was still following or returning to his car.

                • GraceKnows

                  And there is the crux of the matter: publicity. Incidents like this occur throughout the country every day. The incident took place the evening of February 26th. It was only reported in the state of Florida, until a CBS Atlanta affiliate heard about it, and then CBS This Morning had Martin’s parents and their lawyer on their national program. Meanwhile, NBC, the Huffington Post, Young Turks, and other media, including bloggers, picked up the story and ran with it.

                  This is how it became a national story, with Obama wading into it, while a picture of an eleven-year-old Trayvon was all that we saw for days.

                  So who made this about race? Does it matter anymore that they’re not going to charge him with a hate crime?

                  “Zimmerman was released without being charged because police said they did not find evidence to contradict his assertion of self-defense.The lead homicide investigator reportedly said he did not believe it was self-defense and he wanted to charge Zimmerman with manslaughter, but the state attorney’s office said there was insufficient evidence for a conviction.”

                  The state attorney’s office. How did we get here from there?

                • ProbableCause

                  If you drive across the Williamsburg Bridge into Manhattan, you end up on Delancey Street. Years ago, it was common practice on Delancey Street for black men to approach your car and offer to wipe your windshield — really, they just wanted a handout.

                  My brother’s route to work included that stretch of Delancey Street. He kept a wad of one dollar bills in the center console just so he could quickly give an approaching black man the dollar without holding up traffic.

                  One day, like every other day, he noticed a black man approaching his car holding a cup. When the black man was at the passenger window he said to my brother, “Excuse me.” Without looking my brother took a dollar from the console, as he always did, reached across the passenger seat and put the dollar in the black man’s cup.

                  It turned out that there was coffee in the cup. Startled, my brother looked up and saw a businessman dressed in an expensive suit who had come up to my brother’s car asking for directions. Of course, my brother was embarrassed. The black man told him it was no big deal and took the wet dollar and handed it someone who could actually use it.

                  Because of the context of Delancey Street, what my brother did was perfectly reasonable.

                  Because of the context of crime in this country, many believe that when George Zimmerman first called 911 to report a suspicious looking person, that also was perfectly reasonable.

                  But reasonable does not equal fair.

                  It may be reasonable to think an unfamiliar young black man in a hoodie walking through a gated and neighborly community is suspicious. But think about the burden that is on a new generation of black men who want nothing more than to be successful, upstanding citizens.

                  I think the outrage is not really about the killing. It’s about calling 911 simply because a human being is walking down the street. A human being who is not carrying crow bar or peering into windows. When George Zimmerman called 911 it was a reasonable thing to do — but it was not a fair thing.

                  Why did this killing, among many other killings, strike a nerve? Why has this case become more important than the facts themselves?

                  The easy answer is to blame the other side’s improper agenda.

                  But it would be wrong not to acknowledge that there is a generation of black men and women who became adults in an era of profiling — banks worrying about creditworthiness, employers worrying about dishonesty, police worried about crime.

                  When this generation of black adults are told that it was reasonable for George Zimmerman to call 911 when he saw Trayvon Martin walking down the street, all they can think is, “Please God, don’t make my children go through what I went through.”

                  That is my long answer to your short question.

                • GraceKnows

                  I’m surprised that, as an attorney, you are inferring that George Zimmerman was “profiling.” Did you know about the large number of burglaries that had taken place in his neighborhood (hence, the Neighborhood Watch)? At no time did George identify Martin as “black,” until asked by the dispatcher if he could tell what race Trayvon Martin was.

                  You are making a very, excuse me, arrogant assumption. Once again, as you referred to earlier, you are making an inference based on… nothing. I recommend you get the complete facts as they are known.

                  There was no need to go into the long story, which, by the way, I believe I’ve heard before.

                  The race-baiting has been brought INTO the account. It wasn’t a factor in the beginning.

                • ProbableCause

                  You asked why this small incident has become such a big deal. I think it became a big deal because many people see it as an example of prejudice being passed on to the next generation.

                  We can argue the facts until the cows come home — but that won’t solve the issue that this incident stirred up.

                  You have a choice. You can tell 1/2 the country that they’re just plain ignorant. Or you can try to understand why this incident is so painful to them.

                  The story I told about my brother is true.

                • ProbableCause

                  It occurred to me that we are not communicating. So, let me ask you a question. Forget about this particular case. In general, what do you think about prejudice in this country?

                • What do I think about prejudice in this country? I think that prejudice by blacks against anyone who isn’t black is RAMPANT.

                • ProbableCause

                  While I’ve always considered myself on the opposite side of this debate, I must admit that even I, a white man, was prejudiced against the white policemen of Sanford. Based on other, unrelated experiences I’ve had with racist cops, I jumped to the conclusion that the Sanford police let Zimmerman slide simply because he was white and Martin was black. I see now that was wrong of me; that I was being prejudiced against the police.

                  The fact is that the great majority of police officers try their best to protect and serve all races and I should be giving the Sanford police the benefit of the doubt. However, I still don’t believe in conspiracy theories. It’s really just a knee-jerk reaction that liberals think cops in the south are not to be trusted.

                  But apart from unfair prejudice against the Sanford police, I still worry about neighborhood watch folk patrolling with guns, if that turns out to be the case here.

              • E. Lee Zimmerman

                I believe either Zimmerman or Zimmerman’s father has said as such — that George was trying to obtain a specific address to provide, and that’s when the confrontation took place.

            • E. Lee Zimmerman

              OK … now you’re talking like a lawyer or a politician, trying to have it both ways. Based on what you’ve said, all Zimmerman has to do is ‘assert’ that he believed Martin was about to commit a crime. Is that right? Or does the jury THEN get to ‘decide’ what Zimmerman was thinking, too?

              • ProbableCause

                The jury is required to determine what the defendant is thinking in EVERY criminal trial because of the “guilty mind” element of every felony and most misdemeanors. Juries are instructed to infer what the defendant was thinking from circumstantial evidence, such as statements made to others.

                In the end, the jury hears all the evidence and looks into the eyes of all the witnesses. This process takes days and sometimes weeks. We can’t be sitting at our keyboards and consider ourselves as knowledgable as the jury will ultimately be in this case.

                • E. Lee Zimmerman

                  Ok, wait wait wait wait wait — and I appreciate your taking the time and energy to explain this to me b/c it’s a legal question and I respect your expertise in the matter — doesn’t that violate the whole “innocent until PROVEN guilty” aspect of the trial process? How can a jury legitimately ‘infer’ the ‘innermost thoughts’ of a defendant? Having testified in a few cases (human resource matters), I can certainly understand the whole “a reasonable person may conclude” philosophy, but I guess I can’t reconcile how a jury can reasonably determine what a man was thinking? I was once a jury foreman, too, and I struggled a bit with it at that time, as well.

                • ProbableCause

                  My biggest problem with the system is holding a theoretically innocent person in jail until their day in court if they can’t make bail. I’d rather see some sort of electronic surveillance than locking a person up who has not yet been proven to be guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Maybe the geniuses at Apple can come up with an App for that.

                  Second, I’m sure juries get it wrong all the time. The jury system is based on a notion that people have a 6th sense about these things. I’ve been on juries and in front of juries and I worry about the other 5 senses let alone a 6th one.

                • E. Lee Zimmerman

                  LOL. Ok, yeah, we probably agree then more than we disagree. I see it as a flawed system, but it would appear to be the best that we have at present.

        • E. Lee Zimmerman

          “But it cannot be denied that there is a widespread belief that young black men often seem more suspicious than young white men. ”

          Well, again, I’m not trying to split hairs, but isn’t THAT statement interpretative of a depraved mind IF it’s not backed up with facts? Isn’t that really the issue here … that the statistics support that conclusion?

    • sDee

      We often lose sight of those legal basics or never both to try and understand them in the first place.

      But we cannot lose sight of the fact that this case was hand picked and manipulated by the DOJ and the Whitehouse, fueling racial hatred, fear mongering and obfuscation. Gulity or innocent Zimmerman has been turned into a walking dead man by the highest office and most powerful men in the Nation to serve a subversive “under the radar” attack on the Second Amendment, State Sovereignty and Stand Your Ground laws.

      The law means nothing to these people. Zimmerman’s life means nothing. Dead and bleeding people in the street mean nothing to them. Probably cause is irrelevant. Zimmerman has served their purpose. They win whether he is convicted or not.

      • ProbableCause

        I don’t subscribe to this conspiracy theory. I’m a retired lawyer and my experience is that judges, prosecutors and juries frequently make big mistakes — but most of them are independent thinkers. There are so many checks and balances and so many people involved that its amazing that ANY decisions get made — let alone coordinated manipulations of the system.

        • E. Lee Zimmerman

          I have two friends — one who has practiced law and one who really serves more behind-the-scenes in a rather large law firm — and they’d both agree with that statement.

        • Levin is being kind in his assessment when you have liberal Alan Dershowitz characterizing the arrest affidavit as “irresponsible and unethical” and said she overcharged and doesn’t even meet the lowest standard for probable cause!!

        • ryanomaniac

          Isn’t it curious that the prosecutors decided to further this mess right after holders comments on this issue. I think I’m right on the timeline. Smells like doodoo too me. These are the most powerful men in the country so I think you should not put it past them. This is way higher than what a regular citizen lawyer or us could touch. Don’t underestimate this regime. We didn’t think it possible for them to do what they have done so far. Rules and regulations and laws mean nothing too them.

          • StrangernFiction

            This regime is pure evil. I put NOTHING past them.

        • ryanomaniac

          You underestimate the power of the dark side of the Force.

          • StNikao

            Their power is temporal and temporary.

            The Power of the Kingdom of Light, Truth, Love and Life is eternal and far superior and greater.

        • GraceKnows

          Have you read all the pertinent documents that are available? You may want to go beyond simply the affidavit and read the police documents, etc., from earlier in the case. There is a lot of background that is factual rather than slanted by the prosecutor. That would include how George was not to have been charged at all originally. Weeks passed before this hit the national scene and turned into the travesty it’s become.

        • GraceKnows

          Have you read all the pertinent documents that are available? You may want to go beyond simply the affidavit and read the police documents, etc., from earlier in the case. There is a lot of background that is factual rather than slanted by the prosecutor. That would include how George was not to have been charged at all originally. Weeks passed before this hit the national scene and turned into the travesty it’s become.

        • GraceKnows

          I see. So you’ve been out of the country for the last three weeks or so.

    • K-Bob

      You stretch the definition of “depraved” to cover that? The word loses all meaning in that case.

      • StNikao

        they should call it the ‘in the heat of or under the influence of strong emotion: ie, anger, fear, need/desire for survival’ or due to pain being inflicted.

        • K-Bob

          Well, yeah, but then it wouldn’t be murder. It would be somewhere in the realm of self-defense through manslaughter.

          And not to speak ill of the dead, but the prosecutor needs to decide what laws, if any, were broken by Martin, and be clear about it.

    • E. Lee Zimmerman

      Erm … seriously? Following that logic, couldn’t I reasonably determine your statement — “the 911 statement ‘these assholes always get away'” — is equal evidence of a depraved mind IF a reasonable person disagrees with you? I’m not trying to split hairs; I’m just saying that I don’t see how that phrase necessarily indicates a depraved mind.

      • ProbableCause

        Nobody is saying the phrase “necessarily” indicates a depraved mind. The jury is allowed to consider that along with a hundred other bits of evidence. They will base their verdict on the totality of facts presented to them. Nobody is going to send Zimmerman to jail for just that one sentence.

    • GraceKnows

      I’ve heard the 911 tapes over and over, since they were released. This is the FIRST I’ve ever heard this “statement” by George Zimmerman. They also spent a great deal of time enhancing the tapes. George said “They always get away.” Somebody reported that George used the slur “coons.” Nope. He apparently said that it was “f***ing COLD.” We already know about the slice-and-dice methods used by NBC that helped fuel this ugly fire. Again, the tape: “They ALWAYS get away.”

      • ProbableCause

        Apparently the prosecution agrees with you because they didn’t charge Zimmerman with racism.

        • GraceKnows

          You missed my point.

    • Nukeman60

      …”these assholes always get away”… – pc

      There had been 8 previous burglaries in the gated community and Zimmerman was a neighborhood watchman. His assumption that it was another possible burglary does not presuppose a ‘depraved mind’. It seems like a natural comment, given these assumptions.

  • K-Bob

    Some of you have predicted a Rodney King type of riot, encouraged by “reverend” Al and the NBP. I expect you are right.

    We need the equivalent of an anti-riot.

    What if decent folks from the community lined the streets, and stood, shoulder to shoulder in solidarity with the law and keeping the peace. To stand up, like those in Gandhi’s “Salt March” and the peaceful marchers led by The Reverend Doctor King. Line up in front of the shops. Leave the street open. Stand shoulder to shoulder. Offer no retaliation, but do not move out of the way for the rioters.

    Would that make it on the 6 O’Clock news?

    • Riots will only happen in areas where police are at their weakest. Unfortunately, our tv screens will be full of looped video snippets, and it will look like the entire country is on fire.

      The best offense is to turn tv off and network with people. Let the media and those that ‘created’ this situation know that they can not overturn our society through images.

      • StrangernFiction

        If they riot, the more coverage the better.

      • K-Bob

        That ignores the Breitbart style response: we all take our cameras, and video goes on Breitbart’s site.

        We need to learn to ignore the leftist media. As far as I’m concerned reading the NYT is like reading Protocols of the Elders of Zion. A decent, normal human wouldn’t allow themselves to be caught with it in their possession.

    • StandingGround

      Good plan but do you think there are enough Gutsy “decent folks from the community” to stand shoulder to shoulder?

      Maybe if the folks on RS all lived there…

      • K-Bob

        Yeah, I think so. We are the majority, after all. We could just put on camera what we always do anyway: stand in silence and observe these leftist fools.

    • StNikao

      AMEN – K-Bob!!! Excellent idea.

      People of good will, who love peace, law, order, justice, truth, know the power of forgiveness and the evil of vengeance and violence – People of all colors, creeds, ethnic backgrounds, socio-economic groups, vocations – lining the streets, protecting stores, buildings, police cars from poop and fire. Standing with law enforcement and first responders.

      I would be willing to participate in that.

      • K-Bob

        Yeah, I think we would too. I wouldn’t even cheat and wear a hard hat.

    • Nukeman60

      The riots would ensue, anyway, due to the pro-rioters wanting the resultant publicity and chaos. All it takes is someone to fling a molotov into the ‘peaceful’ crowd and all chaos breaks out, which is what they want. They desire and demand a confrontation. Now, that would then make the 6 o’clock news.

      • K-Bob

        I don’t know. Gandhi’s Salt March was very successful.

        Gandhi was a bit of a leftist, and prescribed some awful practices in his day, but he had the right idea there. A lot of people did get hurt, but it caused such a shift in the British viewpoint that it was the first slide in the avalanche that ended the British Raj.

        These idiot leftists think they are provoking a strike by conservatives. It would serve them well to choke on their own medicine.


    this website actually has probably the most accurate assessment of the case that I’ve seen (including the lawyers) there are several interesting posts and don’t forget to check out the aerial view maps where they have mapped out the entire incident, paths taken by both zimmerman and martin and matched it with the accounts of the 911 calls in their entirety and picks up at the end with the eyewitness testimony

    the judge CAN technically throw this out at the next hearing

  • This affidavit was one of the most subjective and one-sided that I have ever read. It should disturb any law abiding citizen that two public servants took it upon themselves to make a case against Zimmerman, not report all the facts, as well as state opinion. Terms like profile, falsely, disregarded, struggle, should never be used unless they are quotes. Also, if evidence exist to contradict other evidence then both should be stated equally, such as the voice screaming for help. Where is the statement from the key witness; the first to call 911, witness the confrontation, and give credible descriptions of the parties? Based on that witness alone a reasonable person could believe that the person on the bottom would have been the person screaming for help. Where is the mention of Zimmerman’s statement which would be a declaration at time of “crime” to which he is being charged? after all the hype wains this case will be an embarrassment for the prosecutors in Florida.
    If this would have been an assault case and Martin lived then there would have been sufficient evidence to arrest Martin. The problem is or should I say doubt is whether Zimmerman ever physically assaulted Martin and Martin defended himself because we will never have Martin’s statement. Without his statement to confirm or contradict Zimmerman then we must go on a reasonable standard. Is is reasonable that Martin was confronted by Zimmerman, according to Martin’s girlfriend Martin stated why are you following me, and Zimmerman responded what are you doing around here, Martin told Zimmerman he was staying with his dad or even I live around here, and as a result a physical altercation took place? No! Then what is reasonable? Martin did not like being confronted as well as has a problem with authority (suspended 3 times, struck a bus driver, etc) and initiated a physical confrontation with Zimmerman. A broken nose as result of a punch is usually acquired due to an offensive strike.

    • StNikao

      The ARREST of George Zimmerman was about MONEY and a civil wrongful death lawsuit – the lawyers, Crump and Parks, do not care so much about conviction as money.

      They are big deal victim advocates in FL – having tried several notable cases. They have reaped so much money, they donated a MILLION dollars to the state Legal Defense Fund.

      Their goal is ostensibly justice, but money, fame, possible political futures in the DOJ, etc. possibly calls them as well.

      HOWEVER – in this case, they have behaved and acted irresponsibly, unethically and possibly criminally – having gone to the media, altered evidence, etc….they should be sanctioned, reprimanded or indicted for their conduct and actions.

  • Sober_Thinking

    It sounds like Zimerman will be the sacrificial lamb to appease black outrage. I thought this was America. Guilty until found guilty? And blacks and the MSM stoke this fire.

    I don’t know if he’s guilty or innocent – no one does at this point. But this all smells like a show trial and a sham. Again, the prosecutor was WAY too happy when she made her little announcement of the charges. This whole thing smells to high Heaven.

    • StrangernFiction

      And it is being done by Republicans.

      It isn’t about R vs. D.

  • StNikao

    Harvard Law Professor Alan Dershowitz agrees with Mark Levin – that is two top-notch experts who agree.
    Wonder what US Attorney General Holder will say?

    • Rshill7

      That is correct. Dershowitz anihilated this “ladies” affidavit yesterday.

  • WordsFailMe

    Mark keeps pointing out that Romney will not come on his show for an interview. Romney should do it. There is no more certain a conservative the Mark Levine.

    • Karl Rogue

      And yet, Mark dutifully supports the Rombot. go figure

      • W.

        Mark is avoiding the Truth, Whole Truth, Nothing but the Truth.

      • Constance

        No, Mark Levin definitely does not support Mitt Romney. What he supports is doing everything possible to get Obama out of the White House, then moving forward from there. We are left with precious alternatives. Either vote for the candidate you don’t like on the GOP side, or have your wasted vote count for Obama’s reelection. Levin is choosing the first. So am I. I may not like the situation I find myself in, but I refuse to stand by and deliberately support Obama by my inaction.

        • GraceKnows

          Give it time to play out, Constance. This has been premature with Romney, with Rick dropping out. There are still a lot more states that want their votes and voices heard. It’s very frustrating for people to crown someone nominee before the primaries have ended.

          Romney is not inevitable, as many think.

          GO NEWT!!!

    • W.

      Psalm 118:8-9

  • jfcarr

    My prediction is that Zimmerman is going to spend 2 years in jail waiting for this case to come to trial. It’s in the interest of the state to allow the passions to cool down, especially until after the Presidential election. I also think that he’ll not be convicted of 2nd degree murder but of a lesser charge of some type.

    • Gtrjag

      I don’t think he’ll be convicted all.

      • His life is ruined neverthless. Ahhh, the (in)justice system works in mysterious ways sometimes!

  • Constance

    Yeah, I thought so. This is all a public sacrifice for the reelection of a president. Think about how terrible that really is. The next time you see Obama, think of how terrible it is that he wants this kind of hatred and twisting of justice for his own benefit, as to destroy an American’s life. When you tell yourself that you aren’t voting for Romney no matter what, think about this case. Imagine how terrible this country will be after a second Obama term. Think this is the only one that will occur? Think again.

    • StrangernFiction

      Think what terrible shape this country is already in that we needed a statist (or so they say) to defeat this cretin.

  • Holder sends another ivory tower, unicorn chaser to enforce the administration’s racist agenda and behold, another clueless recipient of power based upon entitlement over education and skills.

  • Holder sends another ivory tower, unicorn chaser to enforce the administration’s racist agenda and behold, another clueless recipient of power based upon entitlement over education and skills.

  • wodiej

    I read this morning that 2nd degree murder would be very difficult to convict in this case. I think the prosecutor did this to appease the parents and black community knowing that. Also, a judge does not have to let it go to trial if he doesn’t see just cause for this charge but likely would. That being said, how will he ever get a fair trial?

    • Constance

      He won’t get a fair trial. Anything short of life in prison will result in further street violence. It’s ridiculous, and it should not be a fact of life in 2012, but it is. Whether guilty or innocent, I feel incredibly sorry for Mr. Zimmerman. He deserves justice and the benefit of the doubt, regardless of the color of skin of him or the victim. He has already been denied that.

  • PoliticosRBums

    Here’s the scoop, folks:

    Cory was ELECTED in Jacksonville, a district almost fully represented by COLOREDS.

    Her phony indictment was “politically necessary” because she is up for reelection.


    This case will never see the light of day. It is bogus, through and through.

    • StrangernFiction


  • Jaynie59

    I either read something or saw something on TV that said George Zimmerman made a huge mistake by cooperating with police from the beginning. He did not ask for a lawyer right away and so talked to the cops repeatedly and even went so far as to reenact the incident on video. I don’t remember where I saw it, but it was related to his lawyers dropping him.

    This video is 48 minutes long but everyone should watch it, and if you have teenagers you should make them watch it. The idea that you have nothing to worry about if you’re innocent, and talking to the cops will help you prove your innocence, is wrong. In fact, it’s when you are innocent and have done nothing wrong that you should NEVER talk to the cops.

    • W.

      BUT – Zimmerman freely took a lie detector test – and PASSED IT.

      • Jaynie59

        I can’t tell if that was sarcasm or not.

      • Constance

        Unfortunately, lie detector tests are not admissible in court. At least not as far as I am aware.

    • Constance

      You are correct. I respect the police, and I know they have a heck of a hard job to do. However, it is imperative that every American who is suspected of a crime do two things immediately: 1. Shut your mouth and say nothing. 2. Get an attorney.

      Never cooperate in a situation where you are a suspect in a crime, particularly something as serious as this one. People love to say that if you have nothing to hide, then why are you getting an attorney? Sounds good, but isn’t reality. There is truth in the words that anything you say to the police can be used against you.

    • GraceKnows

      Thanks, Jaynie. I watched all of it, and came away savvier! Really, that was an excellent video.

  • MiketheMarine

    Let the burning of the cities commence. Folks, hang on , it will be a bumpy ride.

  • StrangernFiction

    Judging from his tweets the depraved mind belonged to Martin.

  • Blacks are setting back their cause 50 years by such antics. American people may not always pay attention but they are not dumb either.
    After working two decades in government and seeing what the educated minority of blacks are “capable” of (let alone the vast majority who drop out of school), why would I hire anyone who constantly complains and almost never delivers the necessary performance?
    It is too bad that blacks are creating and reinforcing the negative stereotypes of being unmotivated and violent on a daily basis.

  • ProbableCause

    The Neighborhood Watch that George Zimmerman joined has certain rules and regulations including (1) not carrying a weapon while on patrol and (2) not following a suspect. It is indisputable that he violated the rules he had agreed to observe.

    Doesn’t that cast a certain light on the kind of person Zimmerman is?

    • Constance

      No. It does not. First, nobody knows at this point what is or is not indisputable in this case. We have been fed so many lies by the media that everything you hear should be suspect. Was Mr. Zimmerman actually “on patrol” or did he just happen to be there when he noticed this man? Did he follow Trayvon? We don’t know that. Everybody has a right to defend their own lives regardless of HOA regulations or Neighborhood Watch program rules. I’m just not willing to jump on the spin of black-hating white-Hispanic with a John Wayne complex, murders an innocent Skittle-eating choir boy for the fun of it. I’ll wait to hear the truth first.

      • ProbableCause

        “Everybody has a right to defend their own lives”
        Legally, everyone has to RETREAT before using deadly force, with exceptions that include (1) they are in their own home, (2) they are in hot pursuit of a fleeing and dangerous felon (3) retreat is not feasible and (4) stand your ground laws. Note that under the Florida law, a defendant can’t assert stand your ground if he “provoked” the initial confrontation.

        I’m guessing this case will turn on how the jury applies the Florida stand your ground law.

        • GraceKnows

          Oh, right. George must have tripped and fell, broken his own nose, got up, then slipped and caused a bloody gash in his head. You’re not able to do a good job of devil’s advocate if you don’t even do the research.

        • Brian_R_Allen

          …. I’m guessing this case will turn on how the jury applies the Florida Stand Your Ground law ….

          I’ll bet New York City to a single brick this sham charge will not get even to jury selection, let alone to trial and/or to deliberation.

        • TJ

          From what I heard, #3 would have applied in Zimmerman’s case.

        • The whole point of the Stand Your Ground law in Florida was to remove the requirement to retreat.

    • GraceKnows

      Ah ha! Now you finally come out and show your hand! You didn’t really need to, though.

      I’m not so sure that (1) George was ‘on duty’ at the time, and (2) again, you’ve been misinformed or not informed whatsoever in regards to the fact that, upon being directed by the 911 operator to cease following Martin, George’s voice is heard on the tape to say “Okay.” Another thing: IF George had continued to follow, getting down to the nitty-gritty here, the police department confirmed that George was NOT breaking the law had he disobeyed – which he apparently did not.

      Maybe you’d enjoy a little more to exert your vaunted credentials.

    • He may not have been on a watch patrol at the time, but on his way to the store, at the time. What are the concealed carry laws in Florida?

      • ProbableCause

        Whether he was on patrol or not he didn’t break any gun laws and was not charged with anything other than murder 2.

  • Did anyone else note the seemly bias of the Special Prosecutor announcing the charges?

    Those “sweet parents” (0:15 seconds) and in speaking about Trayvon and others…..”precious victims” (3:22).

    WHY did this special prosecutor forego the Grand Jury? To appease the Sharpton/New Black Panther party?

    • MaxineCA

      I noticed that as well. It was “especially touching” that she prayed with Trayvon’s parents. I wonder how many other “victim’s” family she has prayed with? I was particularly disturbed by how she was smiling. I’m sure GZ and his family don’t find one darn thing amusing about the situation.

  • ProbableCause
  • Zimmerman is just about to get “Nifonged”.
    Final analysis?
    Answer = Molon Labe.

    Semper Fi!

  • ProbableCause

    I think this debate has become so heated because each side is focusing on a different issue and not hearing one another.

    On one side is the grave concern that blacks and liberals are prejudice against white police and that Obama and others are exploiting this prejudice for political gain.

    On the other side is the very real despair that unfair stereotyping of blacks (by even non-racist well-intentioned people) goes on for yet another generation, with both small and disastrous consequences.

    I think both side are sincere and I believe both sides are right.

    • JamesMcC

      Umm, no. Racial identity politics is racism. It is always wrong. It is an irrational way for stupid, paranoid people to feel good about themselves and excuse pathetic hatred of others. And it has absolutely nothing to do with the facts of the case.

      So, both sides can’t be right. One side is just very sincerely wrong.

  • Sally Winters

    How about we keep the conjectures out of this and focus on one thing. The affidavit and how poorly written it is and what that might mean.

    The affidavit lacks proper attribution. What I mean by that is it fails to explain how the each piece of information in the affidavit is actually known. A proper affidavit must explain how each link in the chain gained the information — how everyone knew what they knew — so that the judge can make an intelligent assessment that the evidence is sufficient to warrant an indictment or trial. The Zimmerman affidavit does not even come close to doing this. It basically reads “we investigated a bunch of stuff, and here’s what we learned,” followed by a narrative of what someone believes happened.

    The real question all of you should be asking, is why was it so poorly written. Could it be that political pressure has created a poorly written affidavit so that someone play pass the political hot potatoe? Come one everyone THINKG and DIG DEEP.

  • Anyway you look at it two young men lost their life. Sadly, parents had to bury their child. Zimmerman will never get a fair trial if blacks are on the jury. I can not see any black going by facts if one has grown up listening to the type of black leaders of today – sharpton, jackson, wright, waters, etc. But the truth is the local courts will deal with this. Now, where is holder ? Why is holder giving radical, hate groups the okay to post bounties on humans. Since holder didn’t stop the panthers putting out a death bounty on a human, he just gave the okay for all radical, hate groups to do the same. I’m sure holder wouldn’t want to look like a racist and deny other hate groups from this – right.

  • All of the blame in this case should go to obamao and the fast and furious holder! They are the ones that have created racial division in the country! And we have absolute cowards in the congress that will bend,against their beliefs, to any thing that obamao wants to destroy the country! This govt needs to be over thrown by the citizens to preserve our constitution!

  • GunFarce

    Zimmerman gave him self up to the police.. The charge was laid to ‘quell the mob’.. The police report, the witness report and all the evidence shows Zimmerman acted in Self defense and will never be convicted. He is basically in police protective custody to “quell the mob” and prevent him from being murdered.. Unless some startling ‘new’ evidence comes forward, this whole “show arrest” is to settle things down and prevent Zimmermans execution by radical ‘justice seeking’ left wing black ‘leaders(?)’..

  • GraceKnows

    It’s good to see that folks are keeping the George Zimmerman case alive here at Right Scoop. As usual, the “news cycle” has wound down a bit lately, but I don’t think the accused and his family are able to rest. I’m keeping them in my prayers.

  • ProbableCause

    All we can do now is pray that Judge Kenneth Lester Jr. does his job, and his job includes making us all feel good about the process, whatever the outcome.

  • shockzilla

    The key section of theSTAND YOUR GROUND law states:
    A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity(Trayvon was not engaged in any unlawful activity) and who is attacked(Zimmerman’s actions were predatory as it was he who stalked and confronted the victim) in any other place where he or she has a right to be(Trayvon had a right to be where he was) has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force(Zimmerman met peace with force), including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another(what death or bodily harm was Zimmerman preventing??? Cavities due to Skittles??? Diabetes from beverage??? What, What!!!?) or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony(Again..what!?).” This STAND YOUR GROUND law doesn’t have a leg to stand on in an honest world. Is Florida terrified that this might taint their reputation??? It should be a crime in itself to insult public intelligence trying to use this law. It simply DOES NOT APPLY to Zimmerman. TRAYVON would have been in his rights to use it, but DEAD MEN TELL NO TALES.
    Zimmerman’s actions were totally predatory. Florida has a “stand your ground law”. If I see a bear of a man coming at me without a badge, I’d say that law would be more applicable to Trayvon. Trayvon was standing his ground against someone who MOVE INTO HIS GROUND and personal space. Zimmerman was not “Standing” his gorund because he MOVED INTO Trayvon’s ground. His approach was probably rude and intimidating as he was in his “THESE PEOPLE ALWAYS GET AWAY” mode and mindset.
    He assaulted Trayvon’s ground.
    He got his butt whipped on Trayvon’s ground.
    He murdered Trayvon on Trayvon’s ground. PERIOD.
    “Accidental discharge” is lame as well when you consider a gun shouldn’t have been drawn to begin with, and this excuse came very late in the game. So did the “lost track of Trayvon” lie. Is it reasonable to believe that the Police don’t want to arrest this man because they may be implicated by having to explain why this gentleman was allowed to carry a gun even after repeated calls to 911 exhibited a pattern of unstable behavior? It’s a little scary to think that it takes the Feds and the Grand-Jury this much time to consider this. Perhaps they’re trying to create evidence to make Trayvon look guilty. They need this much time to come up with a good story because this is so clear cut, they will need a major spin-doctor.
    Young man STOOD HIS GROUND against an assailant with gun and no badge because he was trying to find his father’s house while raining. Yep, he was up to something. This STAND YOUR GROUND law seems to translate into kill them and stick to your lie. I do not see SELF-DEFENSE on Zimmerman’s part. I see SELF-DEFENSE needed against Zimmerman. If the police stand behind this STAND YOUR GROUND crap, then these police should be incarcerated.
    I’m not sure how the Police roll in Florida, but in Chicago, citizens are not encouraged to approach anyone they consider to be in the commission of a suspicious act. Thats not to say I consider walking down the street with Skittles and a beverage suspicious.
    SELF-DEFENSE as a defense here is gossimer thin. Self-Defense doesn’t pan out if you follow some one then get out of your vehicle to approach them. What seems typical of someone who would utter the phrase: “they always get away with this sh**!”, if in fact thats what he said, is that Zimmerman saw someone he resented. Moved by his GOD-COMPLEX he confronted the victim, despite being advised NOT to by a 911 representative, and Zimmerman proceeded anyway and in doing so, questioned him/Treyvon. The victim refused, just as you would if a stranger suddenly popped out of nowhere with no badge. Zimmerman, moved by his GOD-COMPLEX, felt enraged that someone he considered to be beneath him, would defy him and not recognize his authority as an officer of the law, as any of us would have, and probably took it to a physical level. A struggle may have ensued as Zimmerman ,may have acted on impulse in his rage, tried to subdue the victim. The smaller gentleman proved a little more to handle. Treyvon recognized this guy as a clear and present danger and shouted out trying to alert someone and Zimmerman proceeded to murder him.
    I should note: Zimmerman resented not being recognized as an officer of the law. I and you know he is/was not. IN HIS MIND…he has imparted that delusion upon himself.
    Zimmerman was one of those nobody of a loser who was looking for glory and a type of street cred.
    Zimmerman was a bad mix of…
    a.)low-esteem ,
    b.) a dork looking at the prospect of the support of others who he believes share his racist views and the prospect of their praise and acceptance if he “slays a dragon” or “slays the big bad monster”(so-to-speak)
    c.) and ironically a GOD-COMPLEX(that comes with the a gun and a title that would gain him the attention he couldn’t get otherwise).
    This is what Trayvon was up against.
    I can’t imagine this young man responding to Zimmerman with anything more than expletives. I mean really: SELF-DEFENSE??? You’re walking home with candy and a drink, a stranger pops out of nowhere without a badge??? It would be perfectly natural for Treyvon to fear for his life at this point and go on the defensive. Fight or Flight is the natural response. Florida has a “stand your ground law”. If I see a bear of a man coming at me with a gun and no badge, I’d say that law would be more applicable to Treyvon. Zimmerman could have in fact been screaming to further incriminate the youngster. I’ve seen that before. I’m not proud to say that Chicago has Zimmermans with badges. If Zimmerman had been a police officer, I believe young Treyvon would have conveniently been found with a gun and maybe even drugs. If you find that hard to believe, then I envy you for having such a pretty sunshine filled life. Now if there is any modicum of justice in Florida and the world, this investigation will expand to the community policing group of which he was apart and evaluate the extent of their training, or lack of. If found lacking, then they should face criminal charges as well. Was this community so dangerous that it warranted carrying a gun? If so, the alternative would’ve been to not patrol alone and carry walkie-talkies ,tasers, pepper spray, etc… But I understand he was a lonewolf who imparted this responsibility upon himself. Gated communities tend to have an element of Xenophobia/paranoia living in their midst anyway. The part that sickens me more than Zimmerman is that there will be a lawyer somewhere and citizens who will zealously defend this dork.

    How is it that you can follow and shoot an unarmed man and claim self defense,
    Yet, you beat down a complete stranger for following you, questioning you, and probably trying to grab you to make you listen, and thats an assault!!?? The whole story pretty much played itself out with Zimmerman’s own exchange with the 911 operator, his anxiety, anxious breathing, and frustration as to “THESE ??? ALWAYS GET AWAY WITH THIS STUFF!” Zimmerman was in total predatory, make-a-name-for-himself mode. He and many blogger commenters insist Trayvon was up to something. He had nothing on him that he could use to rob anyone or break into anything.
    Five other thoughts:
    1.) Why would he be up to something in his own father’s neighborhood.
    2.) When teens in that age group decide to “BE UP TO SOMETHING”, they usually do it in numbers and not alone because they prefer to play into and feed into each others egos –aka- showing off.
    3.) Reading all the comments from a myriad of Blogs, the consensus seems to be that Trayvon is guilty because that’s what Black teens do, or he deserved it because the consensus is Trayvon HAD TO BE a typical no-good menace to society and that he’s better off dead. I’m thinking Zimmerman and the writers of these comments(I see you) embrace the same frame of mind that believes Trayvon just MUST be up to something because he’s a Black guy and Zimmerman, who shared your sentiments, was in that zone when he saw a lone young black figure walking alone. If you feel like that, it stands to reason Zimmerman did also. After all, judging by the hatred espoused in the comments in numerous blogs supporting Zimmerman, one would say that Zimmerman likely held the same views as he vocally illustrated in his comment about “these ???oons always get away with this S#!%”.
    4.) Also…has anybody paid attention to how quick white people separate themselves from Hispanics? Just a note.
    5.) How is it that he felt fear for his life to the point of using deadly force when earlier he had no qualms about disregarding a 911 representative’s advice to disengage? Zimmerman felt he had total control over this kid because he could probably take him one-on-one and if by some chance he can’t, he knew he had a gun. His whole agenda was to intimidate and terrorize. But the situation went South when the citizen whom he tried to terrorize resisted his intimidation. This pissed Zimmerman off as much as my correct reasoning pissses off Zimmerman supporters who would love to shoot me. Zimmerman did not fear for his life. Whats the worst HE could’ve imagined would’ve happened to him in a hand-to-hand struggle with a 17 year old? If he’s that much of a poor fighter, then he shouldn’t be patrolling anywhere, much less, alone and with a gun. Zimmerman didn’t fear for his life…he feared for the composure of his wounded ego. Would Zimmerman have trailed and confronted someone he suspected was armed, or someone who was visibly 200plus pounds of muscle? Did Zimmerman follow this guy from the store and knew he was just a kid with nothing, and said to himself, “Ef- it, I’m getting some glory tonight”?

    For those of us with extensive experience in matters of street violence the only reason this would take any time to convict this Zimmerman wench is to try and spin a lie together for him. I’ve been in the exact same situation numerous times, only my assailants weren’t retarded enough to approach me alone, even though numbers didn’t help them AT ALL. But nobody died. The Spin they keep adding sounds so ridiculous that they’ve resorted to saying Zimmerman lost track of Trayvon, creating a new slate from which to rewrite and edit everything so to make the self-defense thing make sense. Trayvon came out of nowhere and attacked??? Are you kidding me!!? How is it this “lost track of Trayvon” and “accidental discharge” defense can come so late in the game( as oppose to up front where an innocent man would’ve immediately used it to declare his innocence)and NOT look like anything more than obvious spin and lies??? Then there’s the recording. When originally presented, Zimmerman’s breath was labored and anxious as he stated while stalking Trayvon:” these ???oons always get away with this shit!!!” as Zimmerman’s own brother testified that his brother was breathing hard. Yet, a later version of the recording aired on a talk show with Rev. Al Sharpton was cool calm collected. Obviously overdubbed to give us the impression that he was in a rational state of mind. Then an even later and “enhanced” version of the recording supposedly singled out what sounded and rhymed with “…oon” to actually be “Punks”. There are White people that even believe this spin and this obvious edit is sloppy and takes stupid to another level. There are so many unseen powers that be that’re trying to cover this up and lying on behalf of Zimmerman, that Zimmerman himself would have trouble keeping the lies straight when he gets on the stand. His disappearance, which seemed to be even a mystery to his lawyers, suggest to me that those “powers-that-be” pulled him to the side to give him a final script. Now he pops up and is arrested. Will he do time? We’ll see what the Spin doctors have to add to the trial. But somebody, or somebodies, is working feverishly to make this killing look justified. Will the Judge and Jury be paid for? Zimmerman sets up a website asking for monetary aid to pay legal expenses, then drops out of sight on his lawyers , then pops up with another one? What kind of theatre will we see? If Zimmerman is found guilty, would this be a set back for Florida’s conceal-and-carry laws?
    Whats goings on???
    I challenge the African American Community to respond to this ordeal in a civil fashion. Actions by Spike Lee and the Black Panthers was uncalled for and unjust.

    • I doubt anyone with any common sense even read past the first couple of sentences. All that work for nothing. LOL!

      “Zimmerman’s actions were predatory as it was he who stalked and confronted the victim”

      Even the prosecution said that they have no proof of this.

      O’MARA: Since. Today. Do you have any evidence that conflicts with his suggestion that he had turned around and went back to his car?

      GILBREATH: Other than his statement, no.
      O’MARA: Any evidence that conflicts any eyewitnesses, anything that conflicts with the contention that Mr. Martin assaulted first?

      GILBREATH: That contention that was given to us by him, other than filling in the figures being one following or chasing the other one, as to who threw the first blow, no.
      O’MARA: The injuries seem to be consistent with his story, though, don’t they?

      GILBREATH: The injuries are consistent with a harder object striking the back of his head than his head was.

      O’MARA: Could that be cement?

      GILBREATH: Could be.

      O’MARA: Did you just say it was consistent or did you say it wasn’t consistent?

      GILBREATH: I said it was.
      O’MARA: Have you ever had your nose fractured or broken.

      GILBREATH: No.

      O’MARA: You know that that was an injury that Mr. Zimmerman sustained, correct?

      GILBREATH: I know that that is an injury that is reported to have sustained. I haven’t seen any medical records to indicate that.

      O’MARA: Have you asked him for them?

      GILBREATH: Have I asked him for them? No.

      O’MARA: Do you want a copy of them?

      GILBREATH: Sure.

      O’MARA: I’ll give them to the state. It’s a more appropriate way to do it. If you haven’t had them yet, I don’t want to cross you on them.

      Nothing further, thank you, your honor.

      Gilbreath didn’t even ask for the medical records!!! You’ve got to love it…except for the idea that IF Zimmerman is guilty…he sure got lucky with this prosecution. I don’t know who’s worse Gilbreath or Obama’s Solicitor General Verrilli.

  • Let’s all remember that profiling is NOT a crime. Insofar as race riots, here we go:

    There is among many white men an undercurrent of “Bring it on.” This is not confined merely to cops, soldiers, conservatives, Southerners, westerners, the rural and the blue-collar. You can find it, carefully hidden, in federal offices and even among men in newsrooms. The extent of this sentiment is easy to underestimate. Those who share it don’t dare express it, and most journalists live in ideological bubbles.