NY Daily News: “Giffords blood is on Sarah Palin’s hands”

Posted by The Right Scoop on Jan 9, 2011 at 10:43 AM in Politics | 128 Comments

By The Right Scoop

Talk about inflammatory headlines. As bad as it is, this is nothing more than a very graphic overstatement of the MSM/Progressive narrative that is being wielded on many Sunday morning shows today. They are all talking about this notion that political rhetoric may have contributed to this even though there is no evidence of that whatsoever.

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RockidTW

Mein Kampf and The Communist Manifesto.
Can they *get* more left wing?
- Anonymous
  
  Since when was Mein Kampf left wing? I believe fascist authoritarianism and ultranationalism are generally considered to be on the extreme right end of the spectrum.
  - John
    
    Incorrect, DMK2113.
    
    Fascism, socialism, communism, corporatism and so on are all ideologies about increasing the size of government and wielding power over the people.
    
    The Left/Right spectrum is such that the further left you go, the more government you have, whereas the further right you go, the less government you have.
    
    Thus, in their absolute forms, the far-left is totalitarianism and the far-right is anarchy.
    
    Today, the US federal government is quite left-wing (central banks, big federal programs, welfarism and warfarism all increase the power at the center), despite the fact that the American people are quite right-wing (ie they support states rights, independence from central control, free markets and so on).
    - Bsm138
      
      Correct
      
      read Jonah Goldberg’s Liberal Fascism its excellent.
      - Outside Looking In
        
        EXCELLENT recommendation Bsm138.
        
        The Right can expect the Left/Lib MSM to attempt to paint Mein Kampf as Right Wing.
        
        NOW comes the ‘teaching’ moment when we can paint these goons as the death-hungry communist/socialist/fascist/dictators they really are.
    - Anonymous
      
      So then are social conservatives leftists?
      - John
        
        Depends on what a social conservative wants to do. I’m personally against drug use and prostitution, but I would have them legalized because people should be free to fail and make mistakes. Other people who are socially conservative would have them band. I would say that prohibition, censorship and banning things are left wing because they require government to get involved, whereas if we simply CHOOSE not to take drugs, watch a network or visit prostitutions then they will go out of business naturally.
        
        John
        
        Shame I can’t edit my posts… I mean “banned”, not “band” :p
        
        Anonymous
        
        Fair, but unfortunately your definition of left and right is fairly non-standard, and in a completely free unregulated market (anarcho-capitalism), you’re much more likely to wind up with corporate oligarchy than anarchy – and oligarchy will inevitably consolidate into monarchy, which takes us back to the same place.
        
        It’s not really about small government vs big government so much as what the role of the government ought to be and where it ought to be exerting its power. “Small government, strong national defense, social values” – which is not necessarily what you preach, but it’s what the heritage foundation, which is considered a right wing think tank means “unregulated markets with no safety net, huge military (which is part of the government, after all) with a degree of multi-national reach (since you need to be able to anticipate and prevent against attacks), and imposed morality as is dictated by the prevailing majority.”
        
        After all, the government is small, unless you try to commit an offense against it (i.e. terrorism) or marry your boyfriend/girlfriend (if you happen to be a boy/girl), at which point you find out that it’s actually quite big.
    - Jonaspell
      
      No, the right originally meant the monarchy and the church. The faux libertarians have tried to morph themselves into some agents of freedom, like the freedom to cheat, enslave and oppress without some gubiment telling them otherwise.
      - Anonymous
        
        It’s always fun to watch someone talk out of their ass about things they don’t have the first clue of.
        
        “. . .enslave and oppress. . .” ignoring that those are redundant, they both in order to take place require the threat or initiation of coercive force. That is called aggression and aggression is entirely opposed by Libertarianism.
        
        That’s alright though, keep spouting off with no understanding, it just makes everything else you say look completely void of credibility.
      - Rshill7
        
        Jonas:
        
        Dan speaks from experience from what I’ve witnessed. He’s a Grade A ass-talker in my opinion. Makes Ace Ventura look like an amateur. You’ve seen the scene I reference right? Gargling with Prep H might help him.
        
        “Buttt”, he does “bare” a strong resemblance to that proverbial pot who called the kettle black don’t you think?
    - Onema
      
      There are a lot of anarchist groups from the left ( anarcho-communists, anarcho-syndicalists anarcho-socialists). Anarcho-Capitalism, and voluntaryism are considered to be right wing anarchism, however in my opinion they are simply anarchism.
      
      Anyhow, whether it is Fascism, Socialism, Communism, Corporatism. All of them are Statist, which means they have the monopoly of violence. Thus, they can violently ENFORCE their morality, thoughts, laws, taxes on the individual. It doesn’t matter if the government is right wing, or left wing. It is a coercive government. Yes, maybe Republicans are more likely to be for some of kind of free market. But they still like to crack down on the morality of people. Yes, maybe Democrats want to enforce Keynesian policies on the market. But they are for social freedom.
      
      Each of them are advocates of freedom in something, but that is not enough. That’s hypocritical. Specially when they all say they live on “The land of the Free”. The U.S is not free, and it will never be, until the government ceases to exist.
      - http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=647186311 Thomas Parker
        
        Social Freedom? Really? Like telling us what to eat and drink? Like tracking our internet posts through some Personal Internet ID? Like using taxes on food, drink, gas, etc. as a method of social engineering? Democrats are just as interested in controlling people’s “morality” as Republicans are. In fact, all laws do that to some degree.
        
        Onema
        
        I apologize, I meant Civil rights. As in allowing gay marriage. However you just made my point clear, there is pretty much no difference, between both parties. As long as they want to achieve the partial or total power. They will continue to violently attempt against our freedoms, and individuality.
      - Marti17
        
        “A rose by any other name, would smell as sweet”
        
        Every single word’s (of any importance) history needs to be studied. I have been doing this for decades – as time allows. You’d be very surprised how the meaning of words has been manipulated over the centuries. Especially since Edward Bernays came into the picture (around the 1900’s).
        
        The way most political words/terms are used/defined today have nothing to do with their original meaning/use.
        
        This is where the state of confusion occurs. Two people can be talking using the same words/terms – while meaning the polar opposite and walk away thinking they agree.
    - Marti17
      
      “Thus, in their absolute forms, the far-left is totalitarianism and the far-right is anarchy.”
      
      A word picture for this is: the far-left is total government and the far-right is no government at all. (Hope you agree.)
      
      Thank you for the concise layout of these ideologies. I was taught in college history (1970’s) the same standard spectrum that is held today. It bothered me then, I knew in my heart that something was very wrong. I didn’t have the internet and it would have taken long hours to research all these systems to find the answer. Thankfully, I just recently learned what was wrong. Now thanks to you (and Scoop) I have it in a concise form.
  - Anonymous
    
    Right vs left are ignorant and irrelevant in this matter. The Right Scoop had a fantastic post recently on the Soviet/Stalin involvement and conspiracy with the Nazi atrocities in World War ll. As long as the American populace remains in the dark re: misinformed labeling of genocide and crimes against humanity perpetuated by authoritarian dictators, from all political persuasions, We are doomed to allow despots to manipulate US. Mussolini was an avowed, radical socialist PRIOR to coming to power in Italy. Only after World War l did Mussolini “pivot” to facist beliefs and their dictatorial, repressive policies. Brown shirts/black shirts/red shirts are SYMBOLS; read, in depth, the voluminous body of work available online re: sick psychopaths that have enslaved and killed MILLIONS in the past century alone. Left vs. right explanations are misinformed, and dangerous, at best….
  - Anonymous
    
    Sackett,
    
    I wasn’t playing semantics at all; she stated that Mein Kampf was a left wing document, and it wasn’t. At all. It’s “workers of the world unite” not “aryans of the world unite against the lesser races” – communists – in theory – are against the bourgeois capitalists who they view as oppressors. Ultranationalist white supremacists are against the “lesser races” who they view as parasites. So they’re not even close to being the same thing.
    
    Have both Communism/Socialism and Nazism/Fascism (which is how these things should be paired) both led humanity down a hellish abyss? Of course, and nobody who’s worth having a political conversation with would deny that point. Do you think I would rather live in 1930s Germany (as a Jew) or China (as a free thinking individual) than in the US? Granted I’m not living there now, but that’s besides the point.
    
    But those two ideologies led people down to that abyss in very different ways and for very different reasons. At both the extreme left end and extreme right end of the spectrum, you wind up with a hellish situation; and its important for us to recognize that both ideological trains, when taken to the extreme, lead to nothing but misery.
    
    I think your edit was quite unfair, and hopefully I’ve made my point a little more clearly.
    
    Danny
    - http://doorwaybuck.com CM Sackett
      
      You are correct (and I remembered, after hitting submit… but had several other things to see to) about the “pairing” of terms and titles. Well done.
      
      And you have every right to think my edit “unfair”. Indeed, I spent the next few minutes coming back to an “addendum” reply addressing how doing so (it is a matter of easily verified record that I have NEVER edited any of your posts in the past. Gone head-to-head with you over ideas and ‘facts’ presented, yes… as is common and right among men in the discourse of weighty matters), how doing so gave me pause.
      
      Not the edit itself. I’d do it again in a heartbeat.
      
      But the “whom” I edited.
      
      Danny, you are (and I have noted thus in the past, publicly) one of the most intelligent posters (of either side of thought) I’ve read… anywhere.
      
      …and THAT is the reason for the edit.
      
      You KNEW/KNOW that the way you worded that was not ‘clarifying’, but rather purposely crafted to further “bounce the bobber” (old Southern fishing term) of this already emotion-foaming issue.
      
      You do indeed bring considerable knowledge and intellect to the table, and many could grow plump and prosperous feasting on it, rightly used.
      
      But the crafting of that statement wasn’t even a Happy Meal.
      
      Sackett
    - http://doorwaybuck.com CM Sackett
      
      You are correct (and I remembered, after hitting submit… but had several other things to see to) about the “pairing” of terms and titles. Well done.
      
      And you have every right to think my edit “unfair”. Indeed, I spent the next few minutes coming back to an “addendum” reply addressing how doing so (it is a matter of easily verified record that I have NEVER edited any of your posts in the past. Gone head-to-head with you over ideas and ‘facts’ presented, yes… as is common and right among men in the discourse of weighty matters), how doing so gave me pause.
      
      Not the edit itself. I’d do it again in a heartbeat.
      
      But the “whom” I edited.
      
      Danny, you are (and I have noted thus in the past, publicly) one of the most intelligent posters (of either side of thought) I’ve read… anywhere.
      
      …and THAT is the reason for the edit.
      
      You KNEW/KNOW that the way you worded that was not ‘clarifying’, but rather purposely crafted to further “bounce the bobber” (old Southern fishing term) of this already emotion-foaming issue.
      
      You do indeed bring considerable knowledge and intellect to the table, and many could grow plump and prosperous feasting on it, rightly used.
      
      But the crafting of that statement wasn’t even a Happy Meal.
      
      Sackett
- Jonaspell
  
  Sorry, but Nazis aren’t left wing, nor did this man even spout one leftist meme. Like you, he is a brutal, stupid right wing moron who can’t accept responsiblity for anything.
  - http://www.facebook.com/people/Dave-Kawasaki/1798183858 Dave Kawasaki
    
    Please excuse yourself from the adult table, take some time to educate yourself, and come back when you can keep up with the conversation.
  - Rshill7
    
    Sir, that crosshairs thing has been used since the advent of politics almost. The left put crosshairs and Hitler moustaches on Bush as a matter of routine. They also made a movie about his assassination for crying out loud. The guy probably saw TENS OF THOUSANDS of murders on TV and at the movies in his life, yet one word or picture from Palin’s site and that’s the cause of this murder spree?
    
    Did he get his Communist Manifesto from Palin’s site too. Did he pick-up Mein Kampf from there as well, or One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest? You and your lovely left strain credulity past the breaking point. Is that a surprise? Of course not.
    
    This guy must’ve also thought that the ends justify the means huh? Van Jones advocates a violent revolution every day with backing from Soros. So, please. Spare me your left-wing parrot, puppet moves. You dance like Pee Wee Herman and speak like a ventriloquist dummy. Wow. I think I know who’s to blame. The actual shooter. Try that.
  - Rshill7
    
    The exact same mentally-politically-challenged persons who blame Palin also say things like, “oh, don’t worry about all of the sex and violence on TV 24-7. That makes no difference whatsoever and does not cause bad behavior, just turn the channel” HOWEVER, one picture or word on Palin’s site indicating she would like a republican to win that district is entirely to blame…along with Beck of course.
    
    LUDICROUS, romper room, nonsense. Congratulations. Can the shooter take at least 2% of the blame at least in your “mind”?
    
    You’ll be wanting some my famous camel sauce as you engulf one of our humped friends tail-first like an oversized snake.
Gene

All the Left is doing is to make Palin a Target. These Leftist are hoping now that some crazy will use this as an excuse to eliminate Sarah Palin in a revenge act. They truly are sick. Just look at the past history, there are ditches full of people whom the Left got rid of.
- Anonymous
  
  So the Left made the map for Palin with the gun sights on that congresswoman’s district? You righties are always waving your guns around talking about how you want to blast certain people and nations
  - http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=647186311 Thomas Parker
    
    “Targeting” one’s opponent in any competition is a common metaphor. You act like Palin was using it as some secret code to activate her violent, right-wing operatives in AZ.
Gene

All the Left is doing is to make Palin a Target. These Leftist are hoping now that some crazy will use this as an excuse to eliminate Sarah Palin in a revenge act. They truly are sick. Just look at the past history, there are ditches full of people whom the Left got rid of.
Anonymous

C’mon Scoop, this is an op-ed. You shouldn’t implicate the entire paper – especially because the NY Daily News is by no stretch of the imagination a leftie paper.
- http://www.therightscoop.com/ therightscoop
  
  If you had a paper would you allow this trash to be printed? I don’t care if it is an op-ed or not. They should have limits on what they allow and this is far beyond that limit.
  - Anonymous
    
    As news? No. On the op-ed page? Sure.
    
    It’s how this guy feels, whether or not it’s fair and whether or not you agree with him.
    - http://www.therightscoop.com/ therightscoop
      
      Then you would have a trashy paper too with little credibility. After all, while it might be his opinion, there is NO EVIDENCE to even subtly point in that direction.
      
      That they paper would allow him to post that garbage is beyond the pale.
      - Anonymous
        
        Uh, I don’t know if you live in New York, but the Daily News is a trashy paper with no credibility.
        
        DisturbingBehavior
        
        So it’s the classic weekly world news? Be on the look out for bat boy.(I seriously hope I’m not the only person who understand this reference)
  - Anonymous
    
    Trash, like your blog and posts?
    - DisturbingBehavior
      
      what is one man’s trash is another man’s treasure.
      Of course, why a person would jump into what he considers trash with no reason is a beyond me. Would you perhaps also cut off your own nose to spite your face? Nobody asked you to come and you don’t want to be here, so why stay?
http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/MVKB24PATKM3BXCRTLD62FUKK4 Richard

Pelosi is missing a good opportunity,this crisis will be wasted
- Anonymous
  
  6 people are dead and that is the best some dittohead can come up with?
  - DisturbingBehavior
    
    What was your opinion on the Fort Hood shooting? Thoughts please, stop antagonizing.
    - http://doorwaybuck.com CM Sackett
      
      he/she is no longer yipping or relieving themselves here.
      - DisturbingBehavior
        
        Thanks CM. I do appreciate you cleaning out some of the interlopers.
        Though a bit of me just feels a little argumentative/silly today. I kinda hoped to get his responses and argue civilly or bring him down to stupid and beat him with experience. I’m never one to be offended for being the village idiot for a bit if it makes me laugh too.
        
        http://doorwaybuck.com CM Sackett
        
        L.O.Freakin’.L.!!!
        
        Been there… ENJOYED THAT myself! (once upon a time).
        
        On matters less weighty, and times less dangerous to our Republic… they’re ALL YOURS.
  - DisturbingBehavior
    
    What was your opinion on the Fort Hood shooting? Thoughts please, stop antagonizing.
Anonymous

Posted this on another thread but thing it is also relevant to this discussion as well:

Don’t forget, Glenn Beck has been saying for some time that there will be an event that is used by the government to crack down even further on civil liberties. We are already witnessing the “town-criers” casting blame on those ring-wing, hate-mongers. Can’t you just hear them, “yes, they’re the ones to blame for this lone, mentally disturbed, individuals heinous act against society. Let’s silence the voice of Palin, Fox News, the Tea Party. We’ll show them.”

Just listen to John Garamendi’s b/s statements equating what happened to the supposed (yet unproved) hate expressed at the capitol last spring’s health-care protest, to this derranged individual being encited by the heated-political rhetoric. What a crock of crap! Bottom line, the guy is a nut-job, who only needed a stimulus to carry out his acts. It could have been no sugar in his cheerios that morning that set him off, there’s no rhyme or reason to the actions of mentally disturbed individuals – thus the insanity.

It will be interesting to see what comes out of Washington with this event.
John

These people sicken me. They did the same thing in the early 20th century when they scapegoated the Jews and made them responsible for something they didn’t do.

Socialists never change because it’s always about political power.
- Anonymous
  
  You know that the Nazis weren’t socialists at all, right? I’m aware what Nazi stands for, but it doesn’t make them socialists or communists by any stretch of the imagination.
  - Anonymous
    
    They weren’t PURE socialists or communists but they definitely admired Stalin. Goebbels said the only thing they did wrong was not kill enough Jews. So not much difference really. They used many of the same tactics. Nazism was the first of it’s kind, but it had to develop from somewhere.
  - Anonymous
    
    They weren’t PURE socialists or communists but they definitely admired Stalin. Goebbels said the only thing they did wrong was not kill enough Jews. So not much difference really. They used many of the same tactics. Nazism was the first of it’s kind, but it had to develop from somewhere.
    - Anonymous
      
      So that is why almost all the monarchists, imperialists, and most of the churches in German supported Hitler? Hindenburgh was the epitome of conservative Prussian military and nobility and he made Hitler chancellor. Are you going to tell me the field marshal was a leftist?
      - DisturbingBehavior
        
        I don’t understand, are you defending nazi’s from being socialists, or socialists from being Nazi’s? Is this because Hitler was reprehensible for killing 6 million people, or because he just wasn’t able to outdo stalin’s 20 million? do you disagree with all mass murder, or just the mass murder by people you disagree with?
        
        http://doorwaybuck.com CM Sackett
        
        He/she is no longer barking here…
      - Anonymous
        
        You have to understand that as leftists go further and further left, and rightists go further and further right they eventually meet up. Control of the people is the common denominator. You can’t think in just left right paradigm.
        
        When it comes right down to it, all the “isms” in the world are one of two kind. Control or freedom.
        
        Rshill7
        
        With all due respect, BULLSHIRT! You and DMK might consider tripping the light fantastic…over one another’s feet. You have each other’s heads so far up one another’s colons, an enema might say, “What? Impossible!”
        
        Instead of libertarian, why not be really ambitious and become a librarian. That way you might learn how to discern your own heineken from that hole in the ground you can’t seem to extricate yourself from.
        
        Anonymous
        
        Well aren’t you a sweetie! An uneducated one…. I know it’s probably hard for you to study very intensely so we’ll start with something simple like wikipedia.
        
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_ideologies
        
        See there where it says POWER???? keep reading…
        
        Rshill7
        
        Excuse me ma’am, “uneducated one” here. Are you really suggesting that I educate myself from Wikipedia??? Should I educate myself by editing it, or should I believe the last person that edited it, or wait for the next person to edit it? Did you edit it before you put the link there for me?
        
        Ok, I’m trying to be as fair as possible to you since you are obviouly highly trained by wikipedia and are therfore handicapped to a great degree. (I should say encyclopaedia challenged) I’m not going to read whatever resides on link lane there but for boredom’s sake, does it say that the political realm from statism/communism to pure anarchy is a circle? Does anarchy live right next door to communism then? Are they kissin’ cousin’s like Darwin and his wife? (Mr. and Mrs. Eugenics)? Is there a fine line between those two, or is the reality of the matter that the political spectrum is more like a line segment running from far left to far right?
        
        If this will make you happier, you are still wrong, but I would simply like to head towards the right end of that spectrum/segment until we approximate the founder’s original intent. OK?
        
        By the way, does Wiki offer a doctorate program ?
        
        Rshill7
        
        Like my dear old Momma used to say…”Son, sometimes you can find a good biscuit in a garbage can, but that’s not the place to look.”
        
        (especially with the left having such enmity towards truth…and editing capabilities)
        
        Anonymous
        
        LOL @ “especially with the left having such enmity towards truth…and editing capabilities”
        
        I like that!
        
        Rshill7
        
        OK, let’s lie and say you’re right, that the political spectrum is a circle. How many degrees to the right must one travel to enter libertarianville? After you answer that, please endeavor to answer this…who’s your neighbor on that political wheel now? Is it socialism or communism or something else?
        
        If your theory is correct we could go round and round like a hula hoop on Hedda Hopper. We could travel around that circle in clockwise rotation until we turned into butter like Sambo. Who’s porch do we end up on after anarchy?
        
        Ma’am, it sounds really cute and really knowledgable if one is a simpleton, but both your and dmk’s assertions that the political spectrum is a circle, is a glimmering example of not-thinking-it-through. The carat count is priceless.
        
        Anonymous
        
        You jest but you actually ALMOST have it! Anarchy would be about 90+ to the right, libertarian would be about 60-70.
        
        Now, keep your sarcasm in check here, but don’t you think the worlds history HAS indeed been doing the “hula hoop on Hedda Hopper”?
        
        Oh BTW, as I said before, the reason I started you on wiki is I thought you could follow it. Yes RS, it was an insult. Too bad you failed to pick up on it.
        
        This is a bit more intellectual. Funny thing is, the writer mentions that among others, George Orwell and George Bernard Shaw agree with this premise.
        
        http://www.alaindebenoist.com/pdf/evil_twins.pdf
        
        Rshill7
        
        I wouldn’t wipe my heineken with G.B. Shaw.
        
        Rshill7
        
        Of course I picked up the insult. It was an insult to my inteliigence. You are arrogant without a reason. Naricisism based on nothing. (I like alliteration.) We are not far apart. Methinks you like illiteration.
        
        Night.
        
        Anonymous
        
        Yes I was arrogant but then you brought it on yourself:
        
        “With all due respect, BULLSHIRT! You and DMK might consider tripping the light fantastic…over one another’s feet. You have each other’s heads so far up one another’s colons, an enema might say, “What? Impossible!””
        
        Sooooo my fuzzy little friend, me thinks I had a reason.
        
        Anonymous
        
        oh and …. good night to you too
        
        Rshill7
        
        Ok, one last thing. No, It hasn’t been Hedda Hopper Hula Hooping since antiquity. The reason for that is highly technical… i.e., communism would never follow anarchy directly. It’s a bridge too far…like your and DMK’s (may you live happily ever after) theory.
        
        Weeeeeee!
        
        Anonymous
        
        Don’t make the mistake of setting ideologies in stone. Even conservatism has changed over the years. If you break it down, so-called conservatives are much further left than they were 100 years ago. The circle moves!!!
        
        Rshill7
        
        It isn’t a circle. Sometimes good, dancin’ folks circle up in a square dance but neither is an illustration worthy of a single promenade or a clod-hopping river dance.
        
        At the left end of the political line segment, there is total gov. control..at the right end there is anarchy…no gov. How is that a circle? It is a segment, not a ray, not an infinite line and not a circle. If it were a circle don’t you think we’d be playing ring around the rosies by now(?) or at least doing the Hokey Pokey
        
        Rshill7
        
        Oh, it’s a wheel. Next thing you’ll be dicovering is fire :-I
        
        Rshill7
        
        OK, let’s lie and say you’re right, that the political spectrum is a circle. How many degrees to the right must one travel to enter libertarianville? After you answer that, please endeavor to answer this…who’s your neighbor on that political wheel now? Is it socialism or communism or something else?
        
        If your theory is correct we could go round and round like a hula hoop on Hedda Hopper. We could travel around that circle in clockwise rotation until we turned into butter like Sambo. Who’s porch do we end up on after anarchy?
        
        Ma’am, it sounds really cute and really knowledgable if one is a simpleton, but both your and dmk’s assertions that the political spectrum is a circle, is a glimmering example of not-thinking-it-through. The carat count is priceless.
    - Dems-08
      
      You do understand that Marx himself was Jewish?
      - DisturbingBehavior
        
        what’s your point? Stalin and Lenin were not Jewish
        
        Although one could debate you on Marx’s religious views, I think the fault you have is the originator of the source material does not have to be the same as those who follow it. Throughout history, warring civilizations have learned the tactics and equipment of those of their enemy to use for themselves. Ideology is no different.
      - Anonymous
        
        Marx’s father was Jewish and then converted to Lutheran before Karl was born.
  - Rshill7
    
    The National Socialist German Workers’ Party, AKA Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei. That was Hitler’s party “sir”.
    
    You must be that historical black-hole I’ve heard about. You not only “take the cake”, you open up an entire bakery of culinary delights. What a doomus.
    - Anonymous
      
      What part of “I’M AWARE WHAT NAZI STANDS FOR, but it doesn’t make them socialists or communists by any stretch of the imagination” (emphasis added).
      
      Yes, I’m the historical black hole of logic and reason. It drags people down who fail to apply these skills when examining facts.
      - Rshill7
        
        “You know that the Nazis weren’t socialists at all, right?” This is what I was responding to DMK. Apparently you’re also the “Stretch Armstrong” of imagination and the main person your black hole is dragging down is yourself. You’re like a soufle/suck-atash of duh. The next thing you might say in keeping with your overstretched imagination is the nazis weren’t nazis, the socialists weren’t socialists, and Castro is a capitalist. Would you also say that Mao and Stalin were perfect gentlemen with the best interests of their people in mind? Have you ever read “The Road To Serfdom”? It’s probably waaaaaaaaay over your head, much like that imaginary halo you pretend to wear.
        
        Guess what. The imagination need not stretch a millimeter to see what the socialist nazis were. Their philosophers for generations, helped create a mindset that said ‘do you collective duty, that is the highest rung you can attain on the ladder of life’. Individuality was actually frowned upon. It was a country rife and ready for collectivism, your silly assertions notwithstanding.
        
        Anonymous
        
        Castro isn’t a capitalist and the Nazis were Nazis. Stalin and Mao were psychopaths and I’ve read the Road to Serfdom – and I find it to be immensely powerful and correct more often than not.
        
        You haven’t actually taken up a single reasonable argument against what I’ve said; you’ve mostly just insulted me and then listed some discursive facts (as well as some non-truths), so let’s try to suss this out logically, okay?
        
        1) Not all statism is Marxist in nature either. For that matter, not all collectivism is Marxist in nature either. The failure of communism, and the reason why it’s a nice theory that has never panned out, is that it’s impossible to execute without resorting to a centralized authoritarian system in which the government winds up ultimately controls the means of production and creating a nation of proles with no say. The entire underpinning of marxist theory is that the workers would control their own destiny, rather than being oppressed by the capitalist system, but in practice, all communism has ever managed to do is create a system that’s even more oppressive in which the workers are subject to the dictates of a consolidated central planning mechanism – who are indistinguishable from the old bourgeoisie. Ironically, what might be considered the most successful and faithful realization of Marx’s vision would be contemporary Germany, which is a regulated free market in which labor unions have a spot on corporate boards, empowering workers to make serious decisions about the direction in which their employers move, but that’s immaterial to the current argument. Although it’s worth noting that Germany has been extremely successful in doing this now.
        
        2) The Nazi party wasn’t primed by “generations of philosophers” – a laughable assertion considering that they emerged and rose to power in the space of one or two generations. The Nazi Party was able to rise to power due to the extremely dire economic situation in Germany following the end of WWI and the desperation and resentment that the population in those years. This picture http://www.dw-world.de/image/0,,2849062_4,00.jpg explains the situation better than anything I would say.
        
        3) The Nazi Party was philosophically collectivist and statist, yes, but it was ultranationalist, and extremely xenophobic. Again, socialism rests on the notion that people are ultimately separated by class more than by nationality, that’s why it’s “workers of the world unite” not “Germans of the world unite.” The Nazis believed that the German/Aryan race was innately superior and that it was its destiny to rule the world, but they didn’t seek to restratify German society so as to eliminate class struggle – they sought to reorganize the world so that the Germans could take their place on top, where they rightfully ought to be.
        
        Hayek doesn’t warn against communism, he warns against tyranny and central planning. What you seem to be either ignorant of or unwilling to recognize is that tyranny doesn’t have to come from the left end of the spectrum – it can come from the far right end of it too. As I said, either ideological paths, when taken to the extreme, lead to nothing but misery.
        
        Rshill7
        
        You either did not read “Road To Serfdom” or couldn’t comprehend it regarding the philosophers of Germany and how they primed and ready for socialism. Yes, they were. You assertion otherwise is as moot as an old boot, good for little other than stinkin’ up the place.
        
        You now say they were ultranationalist. That is true, but still means, if the individual comes up against tha national collective…the individual gets crushed every time. “Germany Over All”, that’s right. Duty to the collective, nothing to the individual. The antithesis of our constitution.
        
        What I am not ignorant of sir, is that the 20th century is one of genocide fomented and supported by marxism, evolutionary theory, eugenics, atheism and yes, socialism and communism. The left would like to revisit those things and live there. When you re-read “Road to Serf…” try chasing it with some Ayn Rand, “We The Living”.
        
        Rshill7
        
        You either did not read “Road To Serfdom” or couldn’t comprehend it regarding the philosophers of Germany and how they primed and ready for socialism. Yes, they were. You assertion otherwise is as moot as an old boot, good for little other than stinkin’ up the place.
        
        You now say they were ultranationalist. That is true, but still means, if the individual comes up against tha national collective…the individual gets crushed every time. “Germany Over All”, that’s right. Duty to the collective, nothing to the individual. The antithesis of our constitution.
        
        What I am not ignorant of sir, is that the 20th century is one of genocide fomented and supported by marxism, evolutionary theory, eugenics, atheism and yes, socialism and communism. The left would like to revisit those things and live there. When you re-read “Road to Serf…” try chasing it with some Ayn Rand, “We The Living”.
        
        Anonymous
        
        Ultranationalism generally means working for the collective. I’m not saying that the Nazis weren’t collectivist, nor am I saying that they didn’t quash individualism, what I am saying is that their brand of collectivism wasn’t marxist or socialist in bent. Karl Marx didn’t invent totalitarianism or collectivism.
        
        If you want to say that what the socialists promoted and what the Nazis promoted ultimately wound up in essentially the same place, that’s a conversation that I’m willing to have, but they got there by very very different roads and by using different ideologies. Again, if you swing too far to the right or to the left, you wind up in the same awful place.
        
        Rshill7
        
        Wrong, the political spectrum is more like a line segment. You seem to think it a circle. How very pies-are-square of you. It’s more like a pie in your own face however, but anything but a square description of facts
        
        If you want to “dance on the head of a pin” you might lose some weight first or at least wear some heavy duty ballet slippers. Your’s is a distinction without a difference.
        
        DisturbingBehavior
        
        RShill7, you might feel better by ignoring the argument because I think it’s arguing with someone who is 1. has a personal definition of socialism that does not match what others call socialism, 2. believes the left/right paradigm only fits between communism and fascism, with nothing to account for smaller government, and 3. will not change their mind at all costs.
        
        I might suggest watching this from Jonah Goldberg (it’s in 5 segments, this is the first) about his book liberal fascism. You’ll feel it fits well for this argument. BSM138 posted this above, but I think it fits well here for you.
        
        Rshill7
        
        Thank you sir. Will do.
        
        Rshill7
        
        When I speak of left to right I speak as if latitude left were all powerful government and ridiculous right is no government at all. If an egghead has a disagreement with this, I ‘shrug’ it off (like Ayn did with ‘Atlas’). DMK and Libertarianwoman should hasten to draw us an actual political spectrum. I suspect a compass would be needed. If they’re a little tipsy after a long day, perhaps a Spirograph drawing toy from the 70’s.
        
        Anonymous
        
        TotalitarianismTotalitarianism
        
        DisturbingBehavior
        
        I appreciate you taking a look at the video on Goldberg. I thought the similarities between fascism and socialism were interesting with only literary distinctions on how they are different.
        However, there’s a chart that Bill Whittle used that I liked that gives a little bit more distinction between on a quadrant system( not a circle). It shows government power on one axis and human nature on another. Although the chart shows small government on the left side(as we read from left to right, it’s more of a distinction of no government control towards the direction of complete control), you can flip the chart in any direction and the point remains the same (flip it 180 degrees, and you have your left-right axiom).
        http://pajamasmedia.com/zombie/2010/10/11/the-electric-tea-party-acid-test/
        
        DisturbingBehavior
        
        It’s been a while since I read it, but just realized that Whittle wasn’t the author. I do believe that I originally got it from something Bill had posted a few months ago on PJTV.
        
        Anonymous
        
        What do “others” call socialism, then?
        
        Here’s a definition to start from: a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
        
        And here’s another one
        
        Central to Marxist theory is an explanation of social change in terms of economic factors, according to which the means of production provide the economic base, which influences or determines the political and ideological superstructure. Marx and Engels predicted the revolutionary overthrow of capitalism by the proletariat and the eventual attainment of a classless communist society.
        
        Have you ever read Das Kapital?
        
        DisturbingBehavior
        
        Don’t care to read it. I’ll remain blissfully ignorant of it. It doesn’t matter to me.
        Either way, central power is in control of the production in either society, whether you call that control “the community” or “government” is semantics. Lenin, Trotsky, and Lenin disagreed on how to make it work, and none were “successful” according to the direct principles of Marx’s theory. This is why practice and theory don’t go hand-in-hand.
        
        DisturbingBehavior
        
        edit for: Lenin, Trotsky, and Stalin*
        
        Anonymous
        
        It’s actually a really important distinction to make.
        
        Totalitarianism = Leftism
        Totalitarianism = Rightism
        
        Totalitarianism = Totalitarianism
        
        You can get there using the theories of either side.
        
        Have you actually read the communist manifesto OR mein kampf?
        
        As for Das Kapital, I find it stunning that you can make pronouncements on economic theory without having read any part of it. It’s pretty much the book to read if you want to understand how capitalism works – and it’s not a revolutionary tract.
        
        DisturbingBehavior
        
        The middle = Totalitarianism. Bingo, I get it now. We always live under Totalitarianism.
        
        Anonymous
        
        What you have just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
        
        Rshill7
        
        Plageurism? Shouldn’t you put quotes on that and give credit to Adam Sandler?
        
        Real honest. Kinda’ like theft.
        
        Rshill7
        
        Plageurism? Shouldn’t you put quotes on that and give credit to Adam Sandler?
        
        Real honest. Kinda’ like theft.
        
        Anonymous
        
        It’s actually a really important distinction to make.
        
        Totalitarianism = Leftism
        Totalitarianism = Rightism
        
        Totalitarianism = Totalitarianism
        
        You can get there using the theories of either side.
        
        Have you actually read the communist manifesto OR mein kampf?
        
        As for Das Kapital, I find it stunning that you can make pronouncements on economic theory without having read any part of it. It’s pretty much the book to read if you want to understand how capitalism works – and it’s not a revolutionary tract.
        
        DisturbingBehavior
        
        RShill7, you might feel better by ignoring the argument because I think it’s arguing with someone who is 1. has a personal definition of socialism that does not match what others call socialism, 2. believes the left/right paradigm only fits between communism and fascism, with nothing to account for smaller government, and 3. will not change their mind at all costs.
        
        I might suggest watching this from Jonah Goldberg (it’s in 5 segments, this is the first) about his book liberal fascism. You’ll feel it fits well for this argument. BSM138 posted this above, but I think it fits well here for you.
- Outside Looking In
  
  That’s two excellent posts for John on a single thread.
  Props.
- Anonymous
  
  I am Jewish so please leave us out of your right wing paranoid fantasies. Back in those days your ilk hated the Jews and considered the Nazis to be a bulwark against Judeo-Bolshevism
- Dems-08
  
  Take a history class. The left (Communists and Social Democrats) versus the right (NSDAP and The Nationalists). They were most definitely NOT on the same team, dear.
Anonymous

This is not the first time the shooter has been known to threaten officials. That per the sheriff. I would say law enforcement, the family and friends of the shooter are all responsible as they had the chance to get this guy some help. He was a wacko.
- Rshill7
  
  But the shooter himself is NOT responsible? Try this: The shooter was the only who WAS responsible. Why can it not be his fault? That is the truth of the matter isn’t it? You are like a lefty who believes that individuals can’t do anything for themselves. This guy apparently did do something for himself. He bought a gun, and the extra large capacity clips, at least 62 rounds that we know of and planned it, and went to the store and carried out a multiple homicide. It was his fault.
  
  If I slashed the tires on your moped would it be DMK’s fault or mine? OR, might you have to find a moped basher to blame it on, who somehow hypnotized me into it. This blaming everyone but the performer is wacky. It’s tough to describe how twilight zonish it is, but you are right aboard the Good Ship Poppycock yourself with this blame-game. Right in the wheelhouse Give credit where credit is due mkay?
  - Anonymous
    
    Of course he is responsible for the act itself, that is not what is being discussed here. We are talking about what drove him to it or who could have prevented it. That is where his “support group” let him down. And the victims. Hang with me ok?
    - Rshill7
      
      He drove himself to it. Do you just love the smell of prep H or can you pull your head out for a second?
      - Anonymous
        
        Are you always such an ass? Look at what he wrote on his myspace page, look at his videos, the community college he was attending kicked him out with instructions not to come back till he got psych help. Do I have to draw you a picture??? He was a wacko! Not the fault of vitriolic language but a mental problem compounded by no one getting him committed. AND the local law enforcement not doing something the last time he threatened someone.
        
        Lots of blame to go around but not what you hear from the lame stream media.
    - Rshill7
      
      You are gonna have to hang alone ma’am. Sorry.
      - Anonymous
        
        No need for apology since you are wrong. Read the comments, I am not alone.
        
        Rshill7
        
        Well, you can take comfort in that. Being alone is scary, especially if you don’t like yourself. I don’t give a damn what anyone else says. I am as they say, my own man…with a great wife
        
        I just like playing King of The Mountain. You I see, reside at the foothills…at least that’s how it should be. I have greener valleys than this in which I caper, skip and eat liberals masquerading as conservatives. They are noonday and midnight snacks.
        
        Anonymous
        
        Not sure what you mean by I reside at the foothills and that’s how it should be… I like bashing RINO’s and progressives!!! Find a few libs pretending to be “moderates”. Smacked one of those today on fb. See, we are more alike!!!
        
        Rshill7
        
        Touche’ and En Garde then
        
        Pssssst…A libertarian might not want to be painting socialism in a flattering light. It’s ugly regardless of the lighting. A lovely shade of lipstick might help a little. One could do a pig at the same time and silly two pigs with one stick. Twins.
        
        Libertarian is the direction we should be moving towards. Freedom. Thanks for the interplay.
        
        What’s fb by the way?
        
        Anonymous
        
        oooo I have NO idea how you could think I would paint socialism in a flattering light!!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe you need to re-read my posts.
        
        The only ism I support is capitalism, completely free markets.
        
        Anonymous
        
        BTW, have enjoyed this little debate of ours. And wanted to share this with you.
        
        “We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions.” –Adolf Hitler (Speech of May 1, 1927. Quoted by Toland, 1976, p. 306)
        
        And fb is facebook.
        
        Rshill7
        
        Well then gentlewoman LW. Methinks we agree much more than not. I metaphorically uncouple you from DMK and have torn up the imaginary dance card. (Maybe he’ll read your hitler quote there and once again say hitler was not socialist)
        
        …and prounce you mentally and politically healthy. C-ya on some other topic soon.
        
        Dr. RS.
http://doorwaybuck.com CM Sackett

The following is (to me) an excellent, cogent, CLEAR STATEMENT on this whole sad day (and more pointedly, the sick, turd-throwing monkey syndrome that immediately followed it):

http://www.redstate.com/erick/2011/01/09/the-media-the-shooter/
- Anonymous
  
  Excellent and thorough article !!
Davidkiser21

So let me get this right, the left advocates violence and if they cannot get what theyt want through elections they go to the courts and if that doesn’t work then it is ok to resort to violence, at least that is what is coming out of the Democrats mouths and people like Van Jones, Trumka and Obama. HMMMMMM.
- Rshill7
  
  Indubitably sir!
  
  The left has cruised through the stratosphere of hypocrisy at sub-warp-speed and now reside in the exosphere from whence they recruit more airheads and freedom squashers. No parachute will be able to sustain their free-fall. It’s coming and the only thing that is transparent is their love of socialism and collectivism. Transparent indeed. Most of us can see right through ’em.
http://twitter.com/gothicreader JW

I only hope the that we conservatives stand back and let the left make an nuisance of them self.
http://community.livejournal.com/black_avenger_1/profile Virus-X

So, by that (il)logic, how many liberals should we persecute and prosecute, for all the blood on their hands? For providing intel to al-Qaeda about efforts to track Osama bin-Laden (http://www.slate.com/id/2132975/)? For getting American military personnel murdered by bloodthirsty, Satan worshipping muslims by disclosing secret operations (http://wincoast.com/forum/showthread.php?101558-NY-TImes-Leaks-Classified-Military-Secrets-on-its-Front-Page)? For working as counterintelligence agents for the enemy in time of war OR peace (http://www.federalistjournal.com/fedblog/?p=2637)? How about for something little, like the mass murder of unborn children (http://articles.cnn.com/2009-01-23/politics/obama.abortion_1_abortion-counseling-family-planning-family-planning?_s=PM:POLITICS)? How about when sitting politicians say they want borders to actually become MORE porous (http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=242993), exposing more innocent Americans to the specter of MURDER (http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2010/11/record-number-of-americans-killed-on-border.html)? (And, by the way, isn’t that the same Ellison that’s a muslim, and has nothing to say about his mass-murdering brethren, that are seeking to kill Americans, wherever they can find them? I THINK SO.)

I’m sick and tired of this non-pushback against liberal bullcrap. SOMEbody needs to speak up, speak out and NAME NAMES.
iwantmycountryback

Stay strong, Sarah! I admire all that you do and this IS NOT YOUR FAULT!!!! Some poeple just have to grow UP!!!!!!!!
iwantmycountyback

This totally irks me!!! The progressives and communists have been working for DECADES to take away our Constitutional freedoms and replace it with what they consider social justice. It is apparently OK for them to come in and change our country from the top down, but for us to get “angry” and speak up and get them to stop makes us, in their minds violent and extremist???? WRONG … there is a difference between being angry and being violent. (actually I think they know better but they can’t say it our they would lose the argument)

If they were to have the house robbed time and time again and the police did absolutely NOTHING to try and help prevent it or to catch the person trying to break in, they would be “ANGRY” too! From there, what they did would be of their own doing. PERIOD! Not someone else’s because they may have spoken up about it.

Social justice just takes away from personal responsibilty. That is what this country lacks any longer and those that do proudly want to support personal responsiblity are the ones that are demonized for not being “sensitive”… I am ANGRY! But don’t blame me or people like me and say that we are all responsible for things like this that happen. If there were still personal responsiblity ingrained into us, and from a very young age, instead of this “it’s o.k. it’s not your fault” mentality, I would bet there would be a whole lot less of this kind of activitiy.

Sarah … STAY STRONG!!!! You have a whole lot of people who admire and support you and want you to KEEP DOING EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE DOING … WE NEED YOU!!!
Rls

This is deplorable. Palin is not responsible for this idiot. But you are responsible for trying to turn a tragedy into political gain. Shame.
Mudsack8

What a stupid article. Markos, of The Daily Kos, wrote of ‘targeting’ certain blue-dog Dems back in 2008. And he used the word ‘Bullseye’. Looks like The Daily Kos inspired the killer.

Here is the link: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/25/1204/74882/511/541568
Doug

This is why the mainstream media has no credibility anymore. As Rahm Emanuel once said “Never let a crisis go to waste”. What a sad day for America. How anybody can use this evil event for political purposes is beyond me. What a shame and it just shows how morally corrupt the left and democrats are.
Poptoy1949

Michael, Michael, Michael, grow up my boy. If you call this Journalism you are so mistaken. Now go run to MOMMY.
Poptoy1949

Michael, Michael, Michael, grow up my boy. If you call this Journalism you are so mistaken. Now go run to MOMMY.
Rshill7

The Sheriffs news conferance was, uh,,,opinionated (to the nth degree). Nothing whatsoever wrong with being opinionated. I highly respect that, even in doomuses. There are a few times though where it is not an admirable trait. One of those times might be when you are Sheriff and commenting on a recent crime. Ya reckon he got a larger audience than he gets at the Huff?

He Huffed AND he Puffed and no one’s house was blown in, (except perhaps his own). I heard the distinct sound of a loud backfire though…whether it was the type of backfire heard ’round the world or not, I know not. BUT…the left is toast and her name is Melba.
Rshill7

The Sheriff should be investigating not pontificating.
Rshill7

Who did, and is still doing much much more to target Palin than Palin did to target anybody? The media.

Since day one it has been non-stop Palin bashing. Since the very day that Mcain chose her as a VP candidate. The left targets her, early, often and late. Did anyone kill her yet? No, too bad left, that is what you’re going for right? You’ll take her death in any number of ways will you not?

First you killed her election chances with lies, then you proceeded to kill her family by bearing false witness. You sought to kill any part of her you could. You looked under every rock. When you ran out of rocks you started manufacturing more rocks to look under. Who has been the recipient of as much seething rage, false witness, and slander as Palin?

Is the left waiting for Palin to get killed? Are they wishing for it? Every GD one of these media slugs that have not let up on Palin EVER, want to blame her? What is she NOT guilty of for crying out loud. What these hypos are doing is lying to a crowd! Do they realize they are inflaming others regarding her? She is a pristine example of innocence here, The media is as guilty as hell regarding what they are trying and have been trying 24/7 to do to her AND her family. The media isn’t even Holier than lucifer himself, much less thou.

NY Daily News: “Giffords blood is on Sarah Palin’s hands”

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