By The Right Scoop


An interesting moment from earlier today when Paul Ryan was asked why Ron Paul supporters should vote for Romney/Ryan instead of the libertarian ticket. Paul’s response quick short and quick: “Do you want Barack Obama to be elected? Then don’t vote for Ron Paul.”

Actually, he did elaborate a bit more:

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  • anyonebutbarry2012

    ryan is right, its the same thing for the palin supporters, I like Sarah but she did not run, its does no good to write her in and vote for her, why some think that is smart to do, i do not know, imo it just gives barry a vote. why would anyone want to give a vote to barry??

    • BHliberty

      I can’t agree with you more anyone! I think the more people open up and begin to listen to what Governor Romney has to say then they might be more inclined to support him.

      Don’t know if any of you listened to Romney’s speech this morning with President Clinton (yes, Pres.Clinton!) at the Clinton Global Initiative, 2012 but it was outstanding. He described his plan to assist poor countries through private sector pacs as opposed to government aid. It was an outstanding speech and very heartfelt. If you get a chance, you might want to cue it up! Thanks!

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_6OHPEHB4CY3X6GEGFS63DAC6MI TannerE

      RP supporter here… I will not vote for RP in November. But I will vote for the Libertarian candidate because he’s the only one that will be on the November ballot that’s actually in favor of small government. Romney is no different than Obama… only if he’s elected, it’s like giving Obama both a 2nd and 3rd term.

  • http://twitter.com/jaz2cox Jazcox

    Scoop – put up the whole townhall meeting, this was one of the best one Ryan did.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/6TFSBPXVSCDIMIGDESK63L4VKY Michael

    BINGO!!! God what a simple and profound answer….Ron Paul supporters live in this alternate reality….like I will pick up my ball and go home since Ron lost. Yet all those 4000 regulations sitting on Obama’s Desk will effect you Paul supporters and your families. Being a Ron Paul supporting does not protect you from unemployment, poverty, falling incomes, lower home values, higher energy prices, America in ruin, Gov’t run healthcare and on and on!! That ignorance is just utterly ridiculous!

    And another Rand Paul…Ron’s son….is campaigning for Romney and endorses him as well!!

    Just listened to Ralph Reed on Greta…now if there is one man that knows how to get people out to vote it is Ralph Reed. He is the one that engineered Bush’s Victory in 2004. He was behind the massive Evangelical Turnout that defeated John Kerry. He is being used by Romney to energize the Evangelicals this time….SMART MOVE MITT!!!!! He mentioned that they have mailed over 51 millions copies to Evangelicals on the positions both Romney and Obama have….he is getting in touch with people left and right to knock on doors, make calls and get people to vote. Reed is a Master of the GOTV. He mentioned in 2008 over 16 million Evanglicals did not register and over 8 million stayed home….WOW that is a game changer….McLame did not use Reed and he did not excite Evangelicals….Reed is focusing on Virginia, Ohio, Florida and North Carolina all states with large Evangelicals.

    Very smart Mitt to have Reed on the team….I am impressed!! And Reed addressed the idea that some Evangelicals have problem with Mormom….Reed made clear look at Obamacare, the HHS mandate and other issues and the Evangelicals know what Obama stands for and that many do not have problem with Mitt being Mormom, in fact, Reed said it is the Liberal Left that does not like Mitt being Mormom….not the Evangelicals…

    Reed made clear the Media on the 6th of Nov will be surprised how many Evangelicals will be voting this time and for Mitt!!!! Reed said all the ads cannot change the game…what changes it is the GROUND GAME and the GOTV and Reed is spearheading this vastly important outreach to Evangelicals!! I LOVE IT…Reed is better than anyone hands down!!!

    • p m
    • BS61

      I wonder if they call Rand a neocon and traitor too?!

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/EZJ7XR5XRHJP6Y23GXRMJOFVKM Caddywhumpus Poncho

        Some do, yes. I do not. I look at what he does much more than what he says. His record so far in the Senate is quite good.

  • http://www.facebook.com/rick.rsh Rick4Burke

    I wish he would use the same sort of rhetoric Ron uses, it’s quite potent.

  • stage9

    Who needs Ryan when you COULD WIN A DINNER WITH BARACK???

    That’s right, if you’re the lucky winner, you will be whisked away to dinner with none other than the Slack off in Chief himself! A $4800 value — free!

    Who’s hungry for some k-9?

    http://www.barackobama.com/om-dinner-with-barack-sept-signon?source=dinner-with-barack_URL

    Odds of winning depend on number of entries received. Promotion open only to U.S. citizens, or lawful permanent U.S. residents who are legal residents of 57 United States, District of Columbia and Puerto Rico and 18 or older (or age of majority under applicable law). Promotion subject to Official rules and additional restrictions on eligibility.

    Correction 50 states!

    • texasgirl46

      LMAO….

    • drphibes

      I can’t wait to dig in to a heaping plate of steamed arugula prepared by Michelle.

    • Landscaper

      Letterman or Leno may be calling. You can be on stage1

    • sDee

      cold cockroaches shared with a skid row bum on a urine soaked park bench would be more inviting

    • Nukeman60

      Promotion open only to U.S. citizens‘ – stage9

      So how does Barry get to go to this dinner????

    • LibLoather

      I’d rather eat a dirt sandwich alone…

  • texasgirl46

    Most definitely shared…Been saying it for a while now…

  • Goldni007

    Paulies.

    Can’t live with em. Can’t live without em.

    Whatta you do?

    • http://www.envisionliberty.weebly.com/ Mike Leavitt

      Live without ‘em.

      • puma_for_life

        Fine. That’s a good way to win an election. Guess I’ll vote for Gary Johnson.

        • joyfulgiver

          It’s comments like this I fear most. If you’re serious, your vote cancels my vote for Romney and we all get four more years of Obama. Is that really what you want for America? I’m sure Gary Johnson is a great man, but he is NOT going to win! We need a WIN in order to restore America.

          So, I urge you to really consider Paul Ryan’s words and think long and hard about your vote. Consider the things that Romney has in common with your candidate. And vote accordingly. I’m sure you have much more in common with Romney and Ryan than you do with Obama. That should be your focus.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/EZJ7XR5XRHJP6Y23GXRMJOFVKM Caddywhumpus Poncho

            Puma’s vote for Johnson does not necessarily cancel your vote for Romney. Do you two live in the same state? We don’t elect the president on straight national popular vote. What if puma didn’t vote at all otherwise? What if puma would have otherwise voted for Obama, thus denying Obama a vote?

        • http://www.envisionliberty.weebly.com/ Mike Leavitt

          Nice try! You clearly want the continued decline of America. Voting for Gary Johnson is a SURE way to get that.

  • drphibes

    Well stated by Ryan.

    I know a number of Paulites and it is frustrating to see them sit on the virtue. Some speak of Paul as their “leader”. One friend wasn’t sure if he would vote for Romney, he’d have to “wait to see what Ron Paul says.” This is a bit “cult of personality” for my tastes.

    The bottom line, folks, as the best kept secret in talk radio, Jim Quinn, is wont to say:

    “You have a choice. It’s the communist or the RINO. I’ll take the RINO.”

    BTW, catch Quinn’s podcasts for free at WPGB.com.
    http://www.wpgb.com/cc-common/podcast.html

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Steve-Angell/100001860262545 Steve Angell

      I will take the Communist.

      His laws can be undone by a stroke of the pen as they are just executive orders.

      Mitt would actually get his crappy laws through congress and destroy the GOP thus any chance of fixing things later.

      • drphibes

        Obamacare was an executive order?

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Steve-Angell/100001860262545 Steve Angell

          Give me a break. No way Romney undoes Romney Care. After all Obama Care is Romney care at the federal level. Romney is lying.

          • drphibes

            There you have it. Vote Communist.

          • steprock

            Romney is in favor of state choice. Massachusetts chose poorly, but they chose.

      • http://twitter.com/DrKC4 KJack

        Okay, think of it this way, then. If you vote for Romney now, you can try again with Ron Paul or anybody else in 4 years. Are you SURE there will be a country to run for president OF after four more years of Obama?

        Mitt Romney will protect your civil liberties. Barack Obama will not. Obama’s administration is in court now fighting for the right of the government to indefinitely detail American citizens. You want more of that?

      • BS61

        So you actually believe that under a Communist, you will have the chance to undo anything?

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Steve-Angell/100001860262545 Steve Angell

          Romney and Obama are communist.

          Yes I believe that the American people will wake up when Obama wins reelection. They will force Congress to get off their asses and do something about Obama.

          Romney is not even calling for Obama to be investigated. Romney will destroy the GOP if elected I guarantee it. Remember how close GW Bush came to destroying the Party. Obama had everything all three branches filibuster proof Senate. Romney would deliver Obama all of it back in 2016 were he to win.

          • Josh

            Please keep an open mind about this, because I just can’t take any more of your incorrect statements. It is literally giving me a headache.
            Note: I did not want Romney. He bullied his way into primaries, may have done some underhanded dealings to win the nomination against Santorum, and possibly propped up accusations from women against Cain. He was the most liberal of all the Republican candidates and I will not forget that. However:

            Incorrect: “Romney and Obama are communist.” No. Romney is not a communist. He is a capitalist and a politician. Obama is a communist. The difference is understanding that communism NEVER works. EVER. Obama does not know this.
            Incorrect: “the American people will wake up when Obama wins reelection” No. We are already awake. The Tea Party movement proves that they are aware of the problems in this country.
            Incorrect: “They will force Congress to get off their asses and do something about Obama” Impossible. Obama has already made Congress irrelevant. By moving laws into regulatory bodies outside of Congress, by overruling the Supreme Court’s rulings with “Executive Orders”, and by proving that he is above reproach, he is untouchable at this point. If he wins, he will have “even more flexibility” as he has told our strategic enemies.
            Idiotic: “Romney will destroy the GOP if elected” Who the freak cares? If you are so -gung ho- about Paul, why on God’s green earth do you care about the GOP?
            Idiotic: “how close GW Bush came to destroying the Party” Ditto about the party. Why do you care if you are a Libertarian.
            True: “Obama had everything all three branches filibuster proof Senate” The only truthful thing in your response.
            Incorrect: “Romney would deliver Obama all of it back in 2016″ Obama will NEVER be president again. He is the worst president ever, of all time.

            Here is what you fail to realize. In the time Obama has been president, his economic and foreign policy decisions have kept us in a depression. You can only last in that situation for a short time without the populace losing hope. If Obama wins another term, there will NOT BE A UNITED STATES OF AMERICA in 2016. We will only have King Obama. Stick that in your Ron Paul pipe and smoke it.

      • Nukeman60

        You actually have that backwards. It’s the executive orders of the Communist Obama that have destroyed laws with a stroke of his pen, albeit unconstitutionally.

        Romney can undo Obama’s executive orders with the stroke of a pen, but constitutionally, the laws are passed by Congress.

        Under a Communist regime, we don’t have to worry about laws. There are none. Just orders. And by voting him in, you are one of those responsible for that problem.

        Good luck with that.

      • Psyphurr Lock

        You clearly do not understand what Communist means. Might I suggest you go check it out before advocating for it. To extend your thought with a bit of reality, you assume there will be someone in the future who can “by a stroke of the pen” undo what Obummer has done. While that may be true technically, under a full Communist rule, the person who would do the undoing would also be a Communist.

        You assume what Mitt would do and the consequences, ALL of which are hypotheticals since he is NOT yet elected.

        Under Obummer you can see and feel the consequences NOW and watch as they stack up, getting worse every day.

        Should be an easy choice between them….

  • http://profiles.google.com/ajtelles Art Telles

    Bullseye…

    Q-
    “Do you want Barack Obama to be reelected?

    A-
    Then, don’t vote for Ron Paul.”
    [...or Gary Johnson, the former Governor of my state, New Mexico].

    Bingo and Dittos, Rep. Ryan…

    … and don’t NOT vote simply ’cause it’s Romney…

    … instead of Paul or Gingrich or Santorum or Bachmann or Perry or Johnson or Huntsman or Jesse Ventura.

    Art

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Steve-Angell/100001860262545 Steve Angell

    Seems to me that Romney is little different than Obama.

    He hides what he will do we have to make him President to know what he supposedly will replace Obama Care with. But he makes it sound like it will be Romney Care which is Obama Care by a different name and almost the same.

    He also wants to raise taxes on the top 1% most likely wants to remove charity deductions.

    But he wins the Republicans will get all the blame for the economy. Deservedly so as Mitt is proposing nothing that has any chance of fixing the economy.

    Sorry but Mitt has not come close to selling himself to me. I will not vote for him. I prefer Obama continue to get the blame for this economy. I remember well how much damage GW Bush did to the GOP in his second term as an Establishment Republican. I never in my life want to see an Establishment Republican President. If they want to become President change parties. Mitt become a Democrat. You already are one 90% anyway.

    • toongoon

      Dude, want to buy some kool aid? Oh forget it, you get all you need for free.

      • Patmajek

        Naaah, kool aid is for democrats. Ron Paul/Gary Johnson libertarians are more into buying heroin and hookers.

    • http://twitter.com/DrKC4 KJack

      You are not listening. Your information seems to come from the Obama campaign.

      Romney has been very clear as to what he is going to do. Look on his web site if you’ve missed it. And he does NOT want to raise taxes on anyone. He’s going to CUT taxes for everyone. And he’s not doing anything to the charitable deduction, except for higher incomes, where it is already limited to a point, anyway.

      If Obama is re-elected there won’t BE an economy worth taking blame OR credit for. And he won’t care, because that’s what he WANTS.

      Put it this way. We know what Obama has done while worried about getting re-elected. How much worse will he become with unfettered power?

      Mitt Romney has made everything he ever touched better than it was before. Obama has failed at everything, as we should have known in 2008. He can only get things done when the odds are overwhelmingly in his favor.

      Vote for whomever you want. That’s your right (for right now, anyway). But, personally, I couldn’t live with myself if I thought I didn’t do everything I could to elect someone who is not Barack Obama. I couldn’t look my grandchildren in the eye, admitting that I didn’t take the threat of Obama seriously.

      “A pox on both your houses” just ensures we all end up with the same disease.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Steve-Angell/100001860262545 Steve Angell

        Ryan stated here that Romneys taxes would raise. Because deductions would be eliminated. I assume one of they is for Charity. A huge step in the wrong direction.

        Romney is Obama lite.

    • AbdulBX

      If Obama wins, then you don’t have to worry about an Establishment Republican or any Republican Party at all. Some of you are clueless about demographics or what looks like an electoral college disaster in the coming years for the Republican Party.

    • BS61

      You RP supporters seem to NOT be well informed on Obama. He is a communist. His mom, dad and mentor communist. I didn’t want Mitt as the nominee, but I want a Communist less. At least Romney is a Capitalist!

      When will you RP supporters realize that he will NOT ride in to the rescue? He’ll be in the re-education camps with the rest of us.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Steve-Angell/100001860262545 Steve Angell

        You Romney voters are not very well informed Romney is also a Communist. He praised the China system for how well they did the Olympics because they could just steal the land and force the people to work. He actually learned it from Saul Alinsky a good friend of his dad when he was his dad’s spokesman.

        You should not jump to conclusions. I am a conservative. Romney is way to liberal for me to consider voting for especially after he told Akin to leave the race for a statement I support but he took back anyway. Romney wanted Akin out because he was so conservative. Romney is a Democrat in my opinion.

        • T4Ut

          After reading some of your posts here I have come to the conclusion that with this kind of logic (“Romney is also a Communist”), I may have heard you earlier today on Howard Stearn’s show talking about Romney is a Muslim and Paul Ryan is black.

          Your chief complaint seems to be that “Romney is Obama lite” and so you say you will vote for Obama??? Do you have dain brammage? Seriously, are you wearing your tin-foil hat while listening to coast-to-coast?

          Your Logic, if I can call it that, is so faulty it’s ridiculous. Example:

          if I’m walking down the street and I come across two men brawling and the first one says he’d like to hit me and the second says he’s going to kill me, cut out my spleen and eat it right now, and he shows me the knife, I should choose to help the spleen eater win the fight, because the first guy said the spleen eater’s knife was sharp?

          Another example of your logic:

          I’m riding on a bus and the driver says he wants to kill us all, accelerates and heads for a cliff. Seeing this, another rider jumps up to stop him, but you realize that if he is successful in stopping the driver the bus MAY crash and people MAY be harmed. So you say I should help the driver, so that when the bus goes over the cliff the driver can be rightly blamed?

          IDIOCY

  • http://www.facebook.com/paul.loudney Paul Loudney

    He says “Do you want Barack Obama to be elected? Then go and vote for Ron Paul”.

  • Landscaper

    Did anyone remember the Iowa delegates giving Ron Paul 55 votes at the RNC? Am I right on that?

    • BS61

      Not sure, but I do remember IA screwing us over with a Santorum selection! And I like Santorum.

  • http://twitter.com/DrKC4 KJack

    Your headline is misleading, making it sound like he was saying NOT voting for Ron Paul will get Obama re-elected. Between “Do you want Obama to be re-elected?” and “Then don’t vote for Ron Paul” there are a number of “NO”‘s.

    Please change it. The last thing we need is for the MSM to run around claiming that Paul Ryan thinks not voting for Ron Paul will get Obama re-elected.

  • sDee

    Although the headline makes Ryan sound flippant – the full answer was good.

    Just let Paul have at the Fed – they deserve it.

    Ryan is the only serious candidate on the budget, but as long as there is a Central Bank, we cannot be free. All the spreadsheets and campaign promises will not change that.

    “”I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Already they have raised up a monied aristocracy that has set the government at defiance. The issuing power (of money) should be taken away from the banks and restored to the people to whom it properly belongs.” – Thomas Jefferson

    • Nukeman60

      You make good points about the banks. Look at home ownership. People think, when they buy a house (which is usually the largest investment they will ever make in their lives), that they ‘own’ it, but they don’t. The bank does, unless you’re able to last 30 years and pay 3 times the value of that house to the bank.

      But still, people think they actually own something and when it’s finally paid for, the banks tell you that you should get a reverse mortgage (which ends up giving the house back to the bank).

      I won’t even get into putting your money in the bank for a 0.5 to 1.5% interest rate (while inflation is at least 3.5%). What a total scam.

      • librtifirst

        I agree. Home ownership is a bad investment. It is also impossible with the property tax. Government just rents to the serfs now.

  • neko_dachi

    This thread to be swarmed by angry Paul-bots in 3… 2…

    • http://boogieforward.us/ K-Bob

      Gotta wait for them to empty out the Choom Wagon, first.

  • johngalt30

    I voted for Ron Paul in the primaries and still support the cause of liberty, but only a moron would strategically waste their vote on Gary Johnson.

  • http://boogieforward.us/ K-Bob

    Ryan is a very good spokesman for the ticket.

    While I was never a Romney guy this whole primary season (I was forced into supporting Romney by the Huck/McCain axis of weasels in 2008), I can state with no reservation that this is the strongest ticket to run for any office in my lifetime.

    To give you an idea how long I’m talking about, I remember the press talking abut Nixon’s “Checkers” speech when I was a kid.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/FBSSMIPDF7LBRH2VENIERTUUYU Doug Orsini

    Ryan is delusional. Why on earth would a libertarian vote for a candidate like Romney that embraces essentially none of their values? Obama doesn’t either, sure, but it is astonishing that so many Republicans are unable to appreciate that libertarians just don’t see any meaningful difference between the two largest parties. It’s sort of like a waiter hearing that the diner is vegan — “Well, then surely you’d prefer the roast beef over the steak.”

    • BS61

      So Libertatians would see no difference between a Communist and Romney? I do. Romney offers you a future.

    • Juan_Rico

      If you can’t see the difference between Romney and Obama then you’re the delusional one buddy. I don’t think there’s been this stark a contrast between two candidates in years. I know you Paulbots are pissed your man didn’t win. I like a lot of Ron Paul’s ideas, unfortunately the 20-30% of his ideas that I don’t like are completely nuts. Not to mention that Gary Johnson is about as exciting as a baloney sandwich. Luckily I’m pretty sure only the most moronic of the Paulistas will be voting for Johnson. The sane ones are voting for Romney since they know four more years of Obama will spell the end of America as we know it.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/FBSSMIPDF7LBRH2VENIERTUUYU Doug Orsini

        “I don’t think there’s been this stark a contrast between two candidates in years.”

        I don’t doubt that this is true — and that is the saddest commentary on the state of the choices being offered to the electorate that could possibly be made.

  • Kordane

    If you want sound money, then you’d have a gold standard. Ryan didn’t mention that at all, even though it’s a concept which has been floated as of late.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/EZJ7XR5XRHJP6Y23GXRMJOFVKM Caddywhumpus Poncho

    So now Ron Paul supporters matter? If Romney can’t win without RP supporters, he’s got serious problems. Obama is a dreadful POTUS.

    Romney and the RNC did everything they possibly could to disenfranchise Ron Paul supporters, including changing the rules at the convention and disallowing entire slates of legally elected delegates (see Maine for example). The corporate media bias throughout the primary season was blatant.

    People who support Ron Paul and the liberty movement he has championed take the issues they believe in very seriously, and unfortunately, Romney is virtually indistinguishable from Obama on most of those issues. Romney is simply not credible on matters such as auditing and ending the Fed, competing currencies and sound money, and limiting the size of the federal government through fiscal restraint. On other issues of importance to RP backers, such as foreign policy and the failed war on drugs, Romney’s positions are much closer to Obama’s than Ron Paul’s.

    If Romney loses, it will not be because of Ron Paul or his supporters. It will be because he, like John McCain and many before him, was a bad candidate.

    • http://twitter.com/TriciaNC1 TriciaNC

      Seriously…when 27% of Ron Paul supporters voted for Barack Obama? Enough said..

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/EZJ7XR5XRHJP6Y23GXRMJOFVKM Caddywhumpus Poncho

        Where does this statistic come from? Link? Thanks.

        If you are referring to 2008 Obama voters who would have voted for Paul in 2012, you are pointing out how Paul could have easily beaten Obama by winning over Democrats and independents (just like Reagan did).

  • sandynsavannah

    I have come such a long way since the primary.
    My guy, Newt, didn’t win.
    (I still hope he gets a spot in the Romney administration
    press secretary might be a good fit.)

    I would have never thought I would say this but I can very willingly
    vote FOR Romney/Ryan.
    My vote is not going to just be against obie.

  • kong1967

    I wish he would have entered the race.

    Ron Paul supporters have to get over themselves and their anger that their guy lost. They need to stop being bitter and realize that if they vote third party they are helping Obama get another four years to destroy this country.

    I’m tired of hearing the argument that Romney and Obama are exactly the same. Anyone who says that is just angry because Newt or Paul didn’t win the primaries….in my opinion. Consider this….we know Obama is a sure thing. He will try to destroy our country and will probably succeed. One thing’s for sure, we will not be able to kill Obamacare and once it’s rooted in we won’t be able to remove it. So we can’t vote for Obama. Even if you believe that Romney is a RINO, have you ever seen a RINO in your life intentionally try to destroy the country? Have you seen one turn aside Israel and support a muslim uprising around the world? I don’t think so. Give Romney a chance. That chance is a lot more than you’ll get from Obama.

    • librtifirst

      There is a wide spectrum of individual issues that could mean the destruction of our country, and neither ticket is talking about any of them as a real problem. There is no salvation in this election. The pain will be numbed, for conservatives, but the cause of the symptoms will remain. It is a placebo that causes the temporary pain reduction. It’s all psychological, not practical. Practically speaking, the system will remain in tack, and it will continue us down the same road.

      Most of us ultimately feel powerless to change it, so we latch onto some political figure, party, or body, as the one to change the current situation. We now have 24hr mass media that is all to happy to fulfill our emotional desires with false hope in political campaigns.

      1991: Things are getting bad, we need change.

      1999: Things are bad, we need change.

      2008: Things are really bad, we need change.

      2012: Things are really, really bad, we need change.

      The only change is that the level of “badness” is getting greater each time. The change never actually happens, so why is this election different? If Romney leads us to “really, really, really bad”, then are we going to say that we need another democrat or republican? Apparently so, because even though Obama has taken the Bush agenda and tripled down, everyone seems to think that the overall Obama agenda will end with Romney (the next guy). It has never happened in recent history, so again, why would we think that change was actually coming with Romney? Its just pure emotional neediness that causes us to hope here, because logic has nothing to do with it. There is no intelligent argument of logic that would be even the slightest bit effective at persuading someone who knows this to vote for Romney or Obama.

      Paul supporters weren’t going to vote before Paul ran. (many of them) They will now vote for Johnson, or nobody. What is the difference? None, in my opinion. The republican party is destroying itself from within. Fraud will have to make up a greater percentage of the vote in the future, because the republican party (and dems) are losing their legitimacy in the eyes of many Americans. There will be a backlash, and the establishment will have to counter it again, the next time around.

      Nothing will change until there is a massive political revolution across the whole country, and against the two parties. That is what I plan to support, and not the two parties. A vote, by definition, is support. The votes need to go away from the parties, to independents, and independents need ballot and debate access. Until then, it is all scripted, rhetorical mumbo jumbo on the TV screen.

      • kong1967

        I understand that position, but why would you vote for Ron Paul if you feel that way? He would be a one man team and could not accomplish anything without the support or direction of the Republican party.

        I don’t see how you think think the Republican party is destroying itself from within. The Tea Party is eating them alive and weeding out the RINO’s and the establishment. Allen West, for one, is a replacement. Some of them are deeply seeded but the more we kick out the more power the reformers get. If we start a third party to oppose them all we do is clear the way for libs to win. I would rather reform the Republican party.

        Why do I think Romney will be different? There’s no gaurantee, and as you said everyone else has kicked the can down the road. However, Paul Ryan has shown that he is willing to make the hard decisions that aren’t popular. The fact that Romney chose him is a sign to me that he wants to get business done. Romney has a career of getting the job done. Doing the nasty things no one wants to see that actually saved companies. “You fired people!” Well, that’s life, and I think that experience will help Romney be willing to do what needs to be done even if people complain.

        If you’re waiting for a third party to take root and gain strength in order to start winning the elections, our country will have collapsed before then. We have to move now. Additionally, any third party you start is going to be in the same position the people are in that we put into office now. They will be faced with having to tell people to suck it up and take the hit. Many of them won’t be able to do it, either.

        So, what’s the difference between voting in a Ron Paul type on a third party ticket as opposed to voting for that same person on the Republican ticket? That’s the idea of the Tea Party.

        • librtifirst

          Actually, I was hoping that there might be an independent to vote for, at some point. The party system is flawed, whether it be two, or three, or four. Jesse Ventura won as an independent in Minnesota. The issue is ballot access, and debate access. State election laws need to be changed to allow in the lesser heard voices.

          The fact of the matter is that either you, or I, could beat both Obama and Romney in a presidential campaign with equal access to ballots and media. The system knows this, and won’t let go until we revolt. They had to double down at the last minute on the Paul Campaign, then had to change the rules to stop future challenges. They do the same to independents who can’t meet the criteria for ballot access.

          The only way to save the country is to break out of the establishment party system. The RP campaign was very revealing as to what extent the system will go to, to keep its power. This power extends from local, to state, and to federal election rules committees, election boards and chairs, etc. etc. I don’t see the tea party pushing to reform the republican party in this way. The RP people were the only ones making any progress, in spite of all the tricks.

          My point is that unless tea party people organize to specifically take all positions in the parties that effect elections, and decide the rules, they will never have an effect. If the Liberty movement, and the Tea Party got together for this purpose, they would be unstoppable in changing the system for the better through elections. There are even Liberty people running as dems, just to get the positional power to change the system, but changing the system has to be the main goal. If changing the system is the goal, then party doesn’t matter, because they both do the same things.

          The primary difference between the Tea Party people and the Liberty Movement people, is that the Liberty Movement people are not prone to compromise to get along. That is why they don’t want to vote for Romney. The establishment knows the difference, and cannot work with people who will vote like RP. When people vote like RP, government has a lot less power, a lot less money, and a lot less control. The tea party has not followed that path, as a rule, and therefor is easily co-opted through compromise.

          The more time that goes by, the more necessary a full blown political revolution will be. As the pot boils, we had better hope that we can keep our liberties long enough to keep the whole system from boiling over. When the last of our liberties are gone, elections will finally mean nothing to everyone, because there will be no pretense to it all. We will only have elections for global government propaganda about nation states still having the right to elect their leaders. (who will take orders from global government)

          The loss of our sovereignty is something that most are not paying attention to. It has happened financially, but it is also happening legislatively, and through treaties. The two parties have supported it all, and care nothing about our national sovereignty.

          This is how, and why, we will lose our country, not because of the debt and Obama Care. Those things hurt, but in and of themselves cannot destroy a country. Bad economic times are not the destruction of a country. The destruction of a free country is making it less free, and getting rid of its supreme law. Judging by this definition, Bush did more to destroy the country than Obama has, though Obama has continued it all, and added to it.

          Will Romney change this? I don’t think so, myself. He is a Keynesian economist, a social liberal, and just as much for war as the last few presidents that we have had. The system is acceptable to Romney. He isn’t calling for rocking the boat. Nobody gets excited about Romney, because you have to believe in something to get excited about it. Nobody can believe Romney, because everything that he has done is contradictory to what he is now saying. People don’t believe liars.

          If I know that Romney is a Keynesian social liberal RINO establishment plant, how can I vote for him and sleep at night? Obama being bad, doesn’t cut it. What ever happened to voting our conscience? When we vote for someone, we take responsibility for what they do. If we know that they will do bad things but vote for them as the “lesser”, then we voted for it, and are just as liable and deserving of the consequences. There is always another option, and if there happens to not be one, then you protest with your vote, or you simply opt out of a corrupt system and reject them as legitimate candidates for government, while working to fight the system.

          Donkeys and elephants are the people’s political enemies, and the solutions won’t come from them. If they have anything to do with a solution, it will be because they could not overcome a political movement, and do what they wanted to.

          • kong1967

            There’s a reason why candidates have to meet percentage requirements to get in the debates. Time is limited, and if your percentages are that low people haven’t liked you up to that point anyway.

            No, you and I couldn’t beat Romney or Obama. At least I couldn’t. You have to have access to a lot of money to begin with or good luck getting any donations.

            I know you believe Ron Paul got cheated. I’m not going to tell you he didn’t because I don’t know everything, but I don’t believe it. If Ron Paul would have had Romney’s numbers I’m sure he would have gotten the nomination.

            So, if the goal is to change the system then party doesn’t matter? I beg to differ. There are such things as party platforms, and if you put an ultra conservative on the Democrat ticket he would be a fraud.

            One of the Tea Party’s goals is to reform the system and weed out corruption. I don’t know why you believe the Liberty movement is superior to the Tea Party movement. The Tea Party wants the Constitution obeyed and our freedoms to remain intact. We also care about illegal immigration and voter fraud.

            Well, we part ways on debt not being able to collapse a country. It most certainly can. Why do you think Obama’s racking up as much debt as possible? If you overwhelm the system it collapses. Debt causes taxes to go up, which kills the economy, which kills jobs, which causes more expenditures and more debt. If you can’t steal the money you have to borrow it. If you can’t borrow it you have to print it. Printing it causes inflation, and if the spending keeps rapidly increasing the whole process vamps up. Hyper inflation results and the economy collapses.

            I don’t have a clue where you came up with Romney being for Keynesian economics. We’ve been practicing it for decades to a certain degree. Romney made a personal phone call to Bernanke asking him not to do a QE3.

            As for war, I don’t know if you noticed but we do have a very big problem with radical Islam. You can close your door to it and ignore it and it will still find you. Just because they aren’t blowing things up in this country doesn’t mean we can ignore it.

            Yes, you can vote your conscience, but you will be helping Obama win. Just remember that when he is ramping up Obamacare and telling you that you can’t have a surgery because it is not cost beneficial for your age….remember that you didn’t try to get him out.

            • librtifirst

              We couldn’t lose our sovereignty because of debt. I know what currency devaluation means, but we don’t even have a sovereign currency. We have a private bank note that we are responsible for, but have no real control over. I think that we are probably both assuming the same, in that our government will sign away the last bits of our sovereignty in a global currency crash, and for positioning with the NWO under the new world reserve currency. The Fed Note will only exist to keep us down, once it crashes. Rather than writing off the debt, and starting over with a new sovereign currency, we have been sold out to private bankers. Our politicians don’t talk about this, but many of them are fully aware of it. Our economy isn’t “our country”, but it can cause a lot of political problems and global unrest if it were to crash. I think that we probably agree on this.

              I don’t think that we disagree completely about Islam, we just disagree on the tactics of fighting a world war to combat it, as we are now. I say, fight it one battle at a time, because terrorism is not a place, or a government, or even a particular group of people.

              I was actively involved in both the Tea Party, and the Liberty movement. They are two separate movements, but are going two separate directions. The Tea Party movement is not as organized as the Liberty movement. They don’t get together and plan strategies for campaigns, or raise money for specific causes to gain the necessary ground. They were not at the caucus’ ready to unseat the establishment in numbers that would make any difference at all. For all intents and purposes, they have been neutralized as an effective political entity against the establishment. It started out with a bang, then became mostly impotent at the grass roots level due to organizations like AFP, who remain “bipartisan”, and don’t take sides. This keeps the movement fractured, and unorganized in such as way as to keep them down politically, but usable as a political smoke screen for liberal conservatives. (RINOs)

              If the tea party is ever going to make a real difference, then it is going to have to back a real conservative from beginning to end, and they have to stick with their candidate, and not flop around. They need a leader of the movement that their people agree with on the major issues, then they need to back the candidate like he was the only one, once he is chosen by the movement.

              Money and media are needed to elect alternatives to the establishment. This we agree on. I was just setting up an equality scenario for the purpose of making the point that many people could beat both candidates if given equality in an election.

              Conservatives could still reject Romney, and put up whoever they want to. We don’t even need the two parties to do it, just large enough numbers. With so many people turning against Obama, this is the perfect scenario for a third candidate win. Conservatives would have to make a decision to do it in a consorted effort to reject the status quo in this election. Fragmentation is really the problem with the conservative movement. The establishment puts up nine candidates in a primary, keeps them in long enough to keep the movement fractured, while pushing their choice on us through electoral shenanigans. Conservatives should have picked one guy from the start, and stuck with him to the end. We all lost with Romney being nonminated.

              Party platforms are not followed, so they don’t mean much, other than to keep people hooked on a party who fundamentally rejects their own platform in practice. It gives people like us, of conviction, something to hang on to, albeit a thin thread of hope, it is still hope, which is false. (just as Romney is false hope for a change in overall direction)

              The only way that Romney can fund the government that he says he wants is to continue Keynesian economic policies, and his comments toward RP in the debates, and his own personal statements, make it clear that he will continue to govern via this economic premise. Romney has stated that he supports the Fed, and fractional reserve banking. Talk about an audit is just talk, and will never come to full light under Romney. Auditing your central bank is not anti-Keynesian, it is just legitimizing this system by implying that an audit will solve some of the problems. This point of view is void of any philosophical basis for changing the system, and therefor will never lead to any fundamental changes in the system. This is the same reason that “conservatism” has failed our constitution. (our politicians don’t have a real commitment to it)

              All I am saying is that conservatives need to band together and support “radicals” like RP, or at least Palin, though she is less tested, to counter the establishment. The very first time that they let us down, we need to drop them like a hot rock. Putting up with compromise will never work to change anything.

              I am on vacation, so I had better go vacate……..or something.

              Take care, my friend.

              • kong1967

                Lol, I hope you have a great vacation. I will make this short so I don’t steal too much fun time.

                Pretty much we disagree on semantics. We are definitely on the same side and want the same things. A constitutional and responsible government that protects our sovereignty, our laws, our freedoms, our rights, and is as small and and non-intrusive as possible. Oh, also without corruption (as much as possible). Whatever method we use, I hope we get there. :)

              • kong1967

                Wierd, I had a short reply and it seems to not have taken. Have a great vacation!

                Out of fear of double posting, I’ll let it ride. I’ll just say that we have disagreements, but mostly on tactics. We are definitely after the same thing when it comes to a Constitutional government.

  • Sober_Thinking

    A vote for Ron Paul this year, is a vote for Obama… plain and simple. It means you didn’t vote for the only guy who has a chance to beat Obama. Yes, you voted your conscience… you voted your values and made a statement. Lovely. If I wanted to throw my vote away, I’d vote for Allen West for President. It would make me feel good… but it would be a wasted vote.

    You can almost think of this way… think of each vote as a meal. The candidate who gets the most meals survives and thrives. The one who gets the least… well, that political career dies. Feed Mitt and swallow your pride. I am… because the single MOST IMPORTANT thing we have to do in November is to defeat this monster… and a vote for anyone but Mitt, is a wasted vote and it will unleash the beast for 4 more years. And America will be the meal.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/EZJ7XR5XRHJP6Y23GXRMJOFVKM Caddywhumpus Poncho

      A vote for Ron Paul (or Gary Johnson or anybody else) is not a vote for Barack Obama, it is a vote for Ron Paul. Plain and simple. Only a vote for Barack Obama is a vote for Barack Obama.

      Many of you derided Ron Paul supporters as inconsequential during the primary season. There are only a couple thousand of them, and they are all smoking weed in their parents’ basements, remember? If they actually manage to stumble to the polls in a drug-induced fog this November, why does it matter who they vote for?

      If Romney can’t win without the Ron Paul supporters, he’s got bigger problems to address…and so does the Republican Party.

      • Psyphurr Lock

        You are kidding right? Inflexible ideology is a one way ticket. Usually ends in dictatorships and massive hardships for all. History proves this to be true.

        Look, there are two really big teams playing against each other, both far, far larger than the other guys. The other guys have zero chance of beating either of the big teams. It may not be fair or what you want. But it IS what it IS. Its the cards you have been dealt this time around.

        The championship will only be won by one of the big teams. One of the big teams believes in America and its success. They are proud to BE Americans and are fighting for it. The other big team hates America, what it stands for, and is not proud of it. They want to tear it down and get rid of it.

        Now, the WINNER of that game will directly impact your financial livelihood.

        Team #1 gives you a chance, the beginnings of a chance really, to gain back all you lost during the previous four years, and that also has a promising set of policies that will, if given the chance, help make America strong again. This is ALSO the path for a chance to insert your ideas into the team and how it deals with the future.

        Team #2 wants to continue pushing its failed ideas and policies. Incomes and freedom will continue to be attacked and eroded, and in the end you will have far less than you do now and far more uncertainty for the future. This path cares nothing about what you believe in and no amount of screaming and complaining will make them consider your ideas and how they would affect the future.

        Those are your only two choices whether you like it or not. If you believe in the Constitution and this great nation then by that very same belief you have to vote for the team with the greatest chance of actually achieving some, or many of your desired goals. Common sense!

        I am an avid reader of Thomas Paine. He understood what we were fighting for and what we as a fledgling nation were trying to achieve. The answers you seek to ease your mind and help you do the right thing are in his readings.

        To borrow a famous phrase: “There can be only one.”

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/FBSSMIPDF7LBRH2VENIERTUUYU Doug Orsini

          It’s not a bad analogy, except that few libertarians see the teams the way you characterize them. I see two teams continuing to push their failed ideas and policies. Incomes and freedoms will continue to be attacked and eroded by both of them, and in the end I will have far less than I do now and far more uncertainty for the future. What on earth would make me choose one over the other?

          You may disagree with the perspective, but that is the perspective that needs to be addressed. A threat of “Obama will win” is not a threat at all when the alternative is “Romney will win.”

          Given the choice of firing squad or hanging … I’ll take the small chance that exists by leaping over the side of the building at the first chance I get.

          • Psyphurr Lock

            I am willing to face my foes, and give my life so others may live free. The fewer willing to do the same allows our real foes a greater opportunity to win.

            Look back in history at some of the wars. Note how many nations, who would otherwise be enemies, joined forces to defeat a far more deadly enemy. Quite a few went on to become allies….

            Maybe that anology will help you do the correct thing.

            You stand a far, far greater chance of achieving your desired goals working together with those who also love this great country. Together we may overcome that hate filled party and its leader. Maybe along the way we learn a thing or two from each other…..

            • http://profile.yahoo.com/FBSSMIPDF7LBRH2VENIERTUUYU Doug Orsini

              The analogy has devolved into hyperbole. But I have greater respect for those historical figures who stood on their principles than I do for those who made expedient — but Faustian — compromises.

          • Sober_Thinking

            Both teams do have their problems… but for right now, only one of them shares some beliefs with Libertarians and only that same team has a chance to stop this monster.

            Let’s slay the dragon first (so to speak) and then rebuild the kingdom.

            • http://profile.yahoo.com/FBSSMIPDF7LBRH2VENIERTUUYU Doug Orsini

              “Both teams do have their problems… but for right now, only one of them shares some beliefs with Libertarians and only that same team has a chance to stop this monster.”

              This just isn’t true. The Republicans are perhaps modestly closer on economic issues — although a “plan” to balance the budget some decades out is little short of laughable. But there is almost no overlap on social issues, on which the Democrats could more accurately claim some “shared beliefs” with libertarians. The recent record of both Democrats and Republicans on civil-liberty issues isn’t even worth discussion; they both appear unfamiliar with the very concept.

              • Sober_Thinking

                Well, you may be right… but I don’t hear the DNC platform talking about smaller government or the Democrats hinting that they’ll cut spending. There are other points… but it’s not worth debating.

                If Obama wins, this country is done. If Mitt wins, we’ll at least slow the bleeding. Vote for Paul or Johnson or anyone else and that vote will most likely have no bearing on this election at all. It’s like wasting a bullet – and no, I’m not condoning violence.

                And I mean no disrespect but if you think a Libertarian candidate is going to win in 2012, then I don’t think you’re being honest with yourself.

            • librtifirst

              I don’t think that everyone has the same idea about what the “dragon” is, or what the kingdom should be.

              Many now see the establishment as being the dragon. If this is the case, then party bickering is only a distraction for the masses.

              Those who are still stuck in party politics just shoot at illusions, while those who target the establishment have real meat to sink their political arrows into.

              Romney is the establishment pick who was forced on us through election fraud in the primary process. He is funded by the same financial institutions that elected Obama. His whole track record is liberal at best.

              How is voting for Romney supposed to have any effect in slaying the dragon? Who is the dragon? Are we not just voting for who is to be the next dragon?

              • Sober_Thinking

                I think you make a valid point. Romney is more like the frog to me in this fairy tale. He has the opportunity to be a prince…

                Obama is obviously the dragon (which the bible associates with the devil). But I agree with you… Romney was thrust upon us and many of us didn’t want him to be our knight in shining armor.

                But it is what it is. All kidding aside, we either vote for Romney or we help Obama get re-elected. If this happens again in 2016 (we’re stuck with a frog) when the best candidate doesn’t rise to the top, then it’s time for a 3rd party because freedom will completely be dead at that point.

                Thanks for your response.

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/EZJ7XR5XRHJP6Y23GXRMJOFVKM Caddywhumpus Poncho

          I can assure you my mind is at perfect ease.

          The problem is that both team #1 and team #2 are playing for the same owner, and that owner is not the American people.

          I’ll be voting for Gary Johnson. Before you go crazy, I will let you know that I live in Maryland, which Obama will win handily.

          Best of luck to you.

          • Psyphurr Lock

            So you are voting for someone who won’t matter at the end of the day. Lovely!

            You have given up completely. Bravo for you. Giving up is not fighting, and its not about “standing on moral principles”. Its about quitting, taking your ball and going home. Its cowardly and selfish. Sacrifie the many for the few. Very small minded….

            True Americans never give up…. we fight for the greater good for all.

            While I resent having too, I’ll fight the battles you’re unwilling too. Somone has too….

            • librtifirst

              Maybe if Johnson gets ten times the votes as the last Libertarian candidate, people will take notice and move over as well. Romney has stopped the flow of new Republicans coming in, because he offers nothing new, or bold. Those who are freedom minded, or fiscally conservative, have no candidate. Those who think that these are the two biggest issues that will ultimately decide the fate of the US, have no discernible contrast to vote for or against in the two parties, and for president.

              • http://profile.yahoo.com/EZJ7XR5XRHJP6Y23GXRMJOFVKM Caddywhumpus Poncho

                Right. The actions of both the Romney campaign and the RNC really marginalized a lot of young, new people to the Party. If Obama wins, it will be because the GOP committed suicide by alienating these newcomers to an otherwise aging and floundering Party. Very shortsighted IMO.

                • librtifirst

                  They are sacrificing the new blood to preserve the old. If the new comers were supportive of the status quo, then they would be welcomed in with open arms. There is an information explosion going on politically, and many more people are seeing a different picture than government/media presents, and its being done through alternative media. We are seeing new attacks on internet freedom all the time. The establishment has to control it, or lose ground. Both parties will pass internet regulation. Mark my words on that. Most of the primary fraud was reported via handycam or 4G phones.

                  People hunger for a candidate that they can trust, and that stands firm on what they believe. The problem is that their hunger leads them to support compromise candidates. Conservatives need to reject the Romney’s of politics completely, or the word “conservative” loses its salt entirely.

                • http://profile.yahoo.com/EZJ7XR5XRHJP6Y23GXRMJOFVKM Caddywhumpus Poncho

                  The good news is that the more those in power squeeze in attempts to keep their control, the more people will awaken to their tyrannical ways and the entrenched powers will lose their grip. The bad news is that the likelihood of a mass awakening happening fast enough to avert a catastrophic collapse into full totalitarianism is unlikely.

                  Here is an excellent interview (both video and transcript of interview included) with the author of The Creature From Jekyll Island, G. Edward Griffin. I highly recommend everyone in this forum read it, if for no other reason to gain a better understanding of where many if not most Ron Paul supporters are coming from.

                  http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article36601.html

                • librtifirst

                  I like G. E. Griffin. His youtube lectures are worth watching as well.

        • Sober_Thinking

          Spot on.

      • Sober_Thinking

        I agree, the Republicans are the lesser evil… they are indeed nearly as corrupt as the Democrats. That’s why I’m Independent and will support a 3rd party in 2016.

        But for now, we have to defeat this monster in office. A vote for anyone other than Mitt Romney does not change a single thing. The monster will remain and America will die.

        I’m not bad-mouthing Libertarians… you don’t need the snarky undertone here. I agree with about 80% of their platform. But Gary Johnson or Ron Paul has exactly zero chance to win. Romney has a chance… but it may be a slim one, so we all need to vote to get Obama out first… then we can focus on a 3rd party in 2016.

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/EZJ7XR5XRHJP6Y23GXRMJOFVKM Caddywhumpus Poncho

          I live in Maryland. Romney is not going to win Maryland. Period.

          My characterization of those who derided RP supporters as inconsequential potheads was not directed specifically at you Sober, but the theme has been constant in this forum since I started reading it last fall. In fact, it’s right here in this thread. See K-Bob’s comment a little further down for example.

          • Sober_Thinking

            Yeah, I hear ya brother. I was pretty rough a few months ago myself to Ron Paul supporters… mainly because I ran across a few supporters that frankly weren’t very respectful or cordial… and I followed suit. I feel bad for some of my words. I actually have more in common with Libertarians than I do with Republicans now.

            Mitt Romney may not win Maryland, especially if everyone doesn’t pull for him. That is the same with every state – he’ll need all the votes because the system is stacked against him. I personally don’t care for him much but I will vote for him because Obama is really that bad.

            For me, I would feel horrible if I voted for someone I really supported instead of the front-runner against Obama, and Obama won – but that’s me. Vote as you wish and take care my friend.

            • http://profile.yahoo.com/EZJ7XR5XRHJP6Y23GXRMJOFVKM Caddywhumpus Poncho

              Obama is even worse than we can express on this forum. Unfortunately, he is going to win Maryland, as this state is as true blue as they get. The last Republican to win MD was Ronald Reagan, and Romney is no Reagan.

              Ron Paul supporters in swing states may have a tougher decision on what to do in November. My decision is simple…write in Ron Paul as I did in 2008, and have it not be counted, or vote for Gary Johnson who is actually on the ballot (and has positions on key issues much more in line with my own than Romney does).

              I’d really like to see Johnson in the debates, but there is no way the DNC and RNC will allow that to happen. It would be eye-opening to many Americans how similar Obama and Romney would seem on a number of issues if Johnson participated.

  • ff2009

    I’m not a libertarian, but if romney/ryan can’t give Ron Paul supporters a better reason to vote for them than “not obama” they are simply going to fail to attract their support.

    From my conversations with Paul supporters they believe the problems we face are bigger than just one person, and in fact in many ways they are right. Many republicans are as much for big intrusive government as are many democrats.

    Ryan blew a perfect opportunity to talk about bigger ideas such as freedom, liberty, Constitutionalism…..

    • joyfulgiver

      I disagree! I think Paul Ryan explained very effectively why a vote for Ron Paul would not be a wise vote, basically he was saying a vote for Ron Paul was a vote for Obama. Without offending the person asking the question, he explained the things we have in common with Ron Paul and his followers. I think that is the more important choice, his comments will make that guy think about his decision.

      I’ve said this before, these aren’t my words, but I was told once when the comment came up that someone was voting for the “lessor of two evils”, to think of it this way “you aren’t voting for the lessor of two evils, you are voting for the one who will NOT allow more evil.”

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/GZ3I2CCMY3KMSCGZZEPEW6KEPA bay

    Please. stop the hysterics. Obama’s re-election is not the shelling of Ft. Sumpter or the bombing of Pearl Harbor. America recovered just fine from the “dictatorship” of FDR. America will survive even another 4 years of Obama. And Bush, the last Republicrat to hold the office presided over 2 new wars, a doubling of the national debt, the creation of a huge new bureaucracy called Homeland Security, (BTW, all of which Paul Ryan casted his congressional voted for) and a totally crashed deregulated economy. Romney might well do no better. Politics is a long-term business of building coalitions and changing minds about policy.

  • joyfulgiver

    This is a long post, but I think it’s important for all to read. Wayne Alan Root, a Libertarian, former supporter of Gary Johnson. Now supports, whole heartedly, Mitt Romney. His article posted below appears on Breitbart today. but I posted the full thing here. I hope that’s ok scoop! ;o)

    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/09/24/Romney-Is-Bullworth

    Mitt Romney is Bullworth
    By Wayne Allyn Root

    Do you remember the movie “Bullworth?” Warren Beatty was a candidate for U.S. Senate who had a big problem. He told the raw, unvarnished truth. The media was shocked and horrified. Voters were befuddled and angry- at first. Can you even imagine the nerve of a politician talking honestly to the voters? Blasphemy!

    But guess what? Against all odds, Bullworth proved the media…the critics…the naysayers…the doubters…wrong. He caught fire. He attracted huge crowds. The people fell in love with a politician that told the truth- no matter who it offended. The media was befuddled.

    It took a little time, but once voters realized the truth was…the truth…they started to like hearing it. They realized that sometimes mom and dad have to tell you to stop eating chocolate and candy. You may not like hearing the truth, but it’s always best for you.

    Don’t look now, but a real-life media vs. Bullworth is developing. The biased liberal mainstream media is in a frenzy, frothing at the mouth like never before in modern political history, because Mitt told the truth. They’ll do anything to save Obama and stop Mitt from telling the truth. They’ll make the truth look mean or racist or close-minded. They’ll try to frighten you. They’ll tell you that you can’t survive without government.

    The media will also cover-up for Obama. They’ll ignore the Obama tape where he admits to supporting income redistribution (aka “socialism” for those unfamiliar with the definition). They’ll ignore that Obama was on “Letterman” and didn’t know the amount of the national debt. They’ll refuse to question Obama about the “Fast & Furious” scandal that led to 300 deaths and the resignation of Obama officials. They’ll refuse to ask Obama why he knew about a possible attack on the U.S. Embassy in Libya 3 days before, but did nothing. They’ll ignore that Obama is either lying or completely incompetent about why the attack happened in the first place. The truth is something the mainstream media won’t touch.

    Here’s my advice to Mitt Romney:

    Don’t get defensive. Don’t apologize. We see where appeasement and apology got Obama in the Middle East. People smell weakness and they attack. Mitt, you must take the offense. Tell the truth and take no prisoners. Like Bullworth, voters will love it and support you…once they get over the initial shock at being treated like adults.

    Let the media scream and berate you, call you names, and warn of impending doom in your campaign.
    Good. Go with it! Let’s see more of it. Drive them crazy with the truth. Confound the political experts.

    Mitt, you can be a hero…a Ronald Reagan for 2012. Tell the truth. Let the politics of lying be damned. The truth is most Americans hate the elite media snobs and their politically correct views. We hate the politics of Hollywood too. We may go to George Clooney, Alec Baldwin, or Natalie Portman movies, but we know they were one lucky break away from pumping gas or waiting tables. We don’t buy movie tickets to hear their ignorant political views.

    So, let the media and Hollywood mock you. You’re onto something here. Keep telling the truth!

    Keep explaining to Americans that debt kills economies. Keep explaining that we are broke, that Obama is burying our children and grandchildren under mountains of debt. Explain that debt has destroyed Europe and that we are on the same path of economic destruction as Greece, Italy, and Spain. Explain that while Bush added $3 trillion to the debt in eight years, Obama has added $5 trillion in only 3 1/2, but admitted on national TV he doesn’t know the debt figures.

    Keep explaining that many of the 47% getting government checks are victims. But it isn’t their fault. It’s the drug dealer that needs to be punished, not the drug user. Obama and the Democrat Party have hooked tens of millions of Americans on big government. Explain how the dealer desperately needs to addict his customers, to keep them dependent on him. Keep pointing out that Obama and the elite media have contempt for the poor, and see them only as addicts who will keep voting them into power.

    Mitt, embrace the truth. The truth is Obama needs to keep voters hooked on government programs and checks. It’s the only way he can be re-elected. But, deep down addicts want to get off the drugs. It’s time to tell those dependent on government, that you offer rehab. You want to set them free. By growing the economy and paying down the debt you will create jobs and give them back their dignity.

    Don’t apologize for your comments, stick it in their face. America has become a nation addicted to government…a nation of victims. They need a courageous hero to tell them the unvarnished truth and lead them to rehab.

    Mitt, be a truth teller. Jerusalem IS the capital of Israel. The Israeli people ARE remarkable. The Palestinians DON’T really want peace. And Obama’s appeasement and apologies have led to a Middle East in flames, run by extremists who want to kill us. Yes, you outraged the media when you told these truths…but the American people know this is the truth, and respect you for saying so.

    Here’s the biggest truth to hammer home from now until Nov 6th. Obama tells lies. He can’t help himself, he’s a lawyer. His only talent is the ability to talk fancy. You know, the kind of lawyer who got O.J. Simpson off from murder. Lawyers tell you what you want to hear. They evade the truth. Obama has proven for 3 ½ years that fancy talk is a failure and a fraud.

    What America needs is a can-do businessman and turnaround specialist…Someone who has a resume of accomplishment in the business world…Someone who has actually done something, built something…Someone who has recued failing companies…NOT a fancy talking lawyer.

    Mitt, tell us the unvarnished truth. No sugar coating. Americans are ready to hear the truth. Don’t apologize or moderate. Run towards the fire.

    Remember Mitt, YOU ARE BULLWORTH AND THE TRUTH WILL SET US ALL FREE!

    ——————————————————————————–
    Wayne Allyn Root, a former Libertarian Vice Presidential nominee, is one of the most popular political and media stars in America. His columns and commentaries are read at the biggest political & news web sites in America- including FoxNews.com. He makes regular appearances at Fox News Channel, and hundreds of radio stations across the country. Wayne is a Capitalist Evangelist, entrepreneur and small businessman, home-school dad, best-selling author, and Tea Party Libertarian conservative. His web site: http://www.ROOTforAmerica.com

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/EZJ7XR5XRHJP6Y23GXRMJOFVKM Caddywhumpus Poncho

      That’s nice and all, but Ron Paul is the Bullworth of this election. It is and has been Ron Paul who tells the truth that people don’t want to hear.

      • Psyphurr Lock

        I predict that if RP supporters throw their vote away, and as a result allows Obummer to sqeek by on his relelection bid, your party will be destroyed. All the bad things that happen for the next generation will be laid at your feet. Mark my words.

        As for you, you will be just another faceless body in line for that government handout in order to feed yourself and family. Enjoy your Section 8 housing and government healthcare. Sorry, no free TV’s either. Oh, before I forget, you’ve been denied cancer treatment again. You’re just too old to be worth the expense. Make sure you drive that GM car. It will be required in order to collect your subsistance money.

        Such a lovely life to look forward to…. all because you believed a false narrative about the guys on the other side. So sad…

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/EZJ7XR5XRHJP6Y23GXRMJOFVKM Caddywhumpus Poncho

          Again, if Romney can only “squeak by” with the votes of the few Ron Paul supporters there are, he and the GOP have bigger issues to contend with (and they certainly do). Or are you suggesting there are actually enough RP supporters out there to have an effect on this election?

      • joyfulgiver

        I want to encourage you to go to http://www.ROOTforAmerica.com and read more of Wayne Allyn Roots articles. He might just help you understand the urgency in this election. The truth shall set you free!

        Start with this article – Major Political Announcement – Wayne Endorses Mitt Romney!

        Then read this article – Why America’s Leading Libertarian is Endorsing Mitt Romney and Joining the GOP

        Then this one – Obama Channeling FDR

        then check out his archives!

        I believe Mitt Romney and Ron Paul have a lot in common. Focus on those positives, Get on board to save AMERICA. I only wish Ron Paul would set aside his pride and endorse Mitt. At least he can support him on the things they AGREE on. And, then work out the other stuff after Mitt gets elected.

        • RonPaulSupporter2

          Yes, you are somewhat correct in that WHEN THEY SPEAK, Romney and Ron Paul have a fair amount in common. However, one of the main differences (as I understand them) is that Romney wants to overturn Obamacare and REPLACE it with something else. Ron Paul would overturn Obamacare and NOT REPLACE it with something else. He would opt for a free market solution to health insurance like we currently have with car, life, homeowner, business, and other insurances. That right there is a huge difference.

          But still the biggest issue is that I don’t believe Romney will follow thru with his words whereas Ron Paul would. I don’t trust Romney as far as I can throw him. He’s flip-flopped more times on issues than a burger on a grill. At least Ron Paul is consistent, no flip-flopping there.

          All the best to you.

          • joyfulgiver

            I think that you are being fair in your understanding of the healthcare issues. But, I think we owe it to ourselves and our children to at least give MR the opportunity to prove himself. Many of us only know what we hear in the media about any of the candidates. But, honestly, after hearing MR’s wife speak about him, my intuition says he is an honest man, full of integrity, willing to set aside his personal life to set this country straight. Mitt Romney has a heart for service which is something our current pres doesn’t have. I honestly don’t know alot about RP so I can’t compare the two.

            Again I appreciate your willingness to consider voting for Romney. I think he will be a terrific president.

            • RonPaulSupporter2

              Thanks.

              As I said in other posts on this topic, unless Romney does or says something to really piss me off, he’ll most likely get my vote.

              All the best to you!

      • RonPaulSupporter2

        Absolutely agree with you!

        Ron Paul has been the Bullworth for the last 35 or more years.

  • CG patriot

    I really like Paul Ryan, this young VP is starting to grow on me. This question that Mr. Ryan was asked, was not a big surprise. It seem’s that the RP supporter’s are coalescing and going to different Conservative sites, and obviously now too, with some of Romney/ Ryan rallies to speak-out and show much disdain for how they were treaty at the RNC.

    The RP supporter’s feel as if somehow, “their votes alone” are going to decide this race……” I have been told numerous times with-in my industry, that many are for Obama anyway’s and it’s more about “showing respect on their individualism” that they’re the original Constitutionalist movement and the Tea Party are Neo-Con’s and the GOPe have co-opted the movement………….. Really?

    In many way’s, RP supporter’s with their language and dialog seem’s very left, almost to a fault, not realizing it for themselves. It’s not new knew’s in regards to how both party’s, the R’s and D’s have played a major role in America’s decay, and now sliding into Socialism with Obama.

    The question is– how much more damage are folks willing to put-up with? Mitt isn’t everyone’s favorite, and certainly not my first choice, but Obama and where we are right now, it’s “not” something I’m willing to make worse just because my party or the person I supported “was disc” and now, out of anger’…………wanting the rest of America to suffer.

    Ryan answered that question correctly and explained himself very well.

  • http://twitter.com/stompthewaffle Ethan Chittenden

    Wait, so the choice we have now is between a liberal and a communist?

    Wow conservatives, way to conserve!

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/EZJ7XR5XRHJP6Y23GXRMJOFVKM Caddywhumpus Poncho

      And when the liberal loses, it will be Ron Paul’s fault!

      Wait, Ron who?

      • http://twitter.com/stompthewaffle Ethan Chittenden

        Yes, because it certainly won’t be anything Mittens did. This is from the party of Personal Responsibility™

  • RonPaulSupporter2

    Obviously, by my profile name here on this site you know whom I support. Yes, I know 99.9% of the people that blog here do not support Congressman Paul. So before you start, please don’t reply to this post about what a “lunatic”, “nutcase”, etc. both the congressman and I am as I will not engage you in a debate. And yes, I still believe he would be the right man to lead this country back to free market capitalism, liberty, prosperity, and peace.

    However, that being said, even I realize how desperate our situation is right now in the USA so even I have begun to consider voting for Romney. We all know full well that the USA will be arguably unrecognizable 4 years from now if Barack and the Democrats continue to dominate the political landscape in Washington. The CBO has already come out and said that unemployment will be approx. 9% by this time next year. We have already become (in my opinion) the USSA. Now we’re moving towards becoming the USSR and we all know how well that turned out!

    As much as I hate to compromise my principles and vote for “the lesser of two evils” (which is still evil none the less), I may have to in order to do my part to try and save what little is left of what was the greatest country on the face of the earth.

    • Sober_Thinking

      Either way, you’re still a patriot and you still love your country.

      Personally, I hope you’ll vote for Mitt (I’m holding my nose as I do too), because he’s the current front-runner against Obama and has the best chance to remove this monster from his thrown.

      Take care.

      • RonPaulSupporter2

        Thank you for your kind words. I really appreciate it.

        What I’m going to do is see what happens over the next 5 or so weeks. I will be completely honest and say that I’m leaning towards Romney right now only because of how bad the situation really is. Unfortunately, I really don’t trust him to be a man of his words. So, unless something really sways be the other way (i.e. Romney does or says something to really piss me off), he’ll probably get my vote.

        Thanks again for the kind words and support!

        All the best to you!

        • Sober_Thinking

          Cool… anytime my friend.

    • Patmajek

      Thank you for injecting some rational common sense discussion into the thread. Most other Paul supporters on here are reacting emotionally rather than with understanding. You are at least considering the true consequences of this election. I know the majority of Ron Paul supporters are making similar considerations because they know saving this great country and our Constitution rank far above the petty arguments a few hard-core die-hards have posted here. We must now all stand together or hang separately.

      • RonPaulSupporter2

        Thank you for your kind words. Much appreciated.

        Please understand that (from my perspective) if you don’t stand BY your principles, you don’t have much else to stand ON.

        I think I can speak for the rest of the Ron Paul supporters in that maybe the USA wouldn’t be in the shape it’s in now if people stood by their principles for the past 50 – 60 – 70 years of voting in elections.

        Anyway, as I said in another reply to my post, I’m definitely leaning towards Romney right now only because the situation is so bad.

        The biggest problem I have with Romney is I just don’t trust him to follow up on what he says. I guess I feel we as a country have been burned too many times by politicians promising they’re gonna create jobs, lessen our dependency on foreign oil, help the poor and middle class, etc. We all know they’ve been saying these things for years and nothing changes. Why should I all of a sudden believe that we should believe this guy when everyone of them before him has failed?

        Sorry, I don’t mean to dump this all on you but I hope you can see where I’m coming from (along with probably every other Ron Paul supporter).

        But as I said, Romney probably has my vote anyway.

        Thanks again for the reply and the kind words.

        All the best to you!

        • Patmajek

          I do understand where you are coming from and I always appreciate an intelligent, civil discussion on tough issues like this. I was raised in a democrat union family. Once I got out on my own I became an Independent. I think I still have my Ross Perot yard sign tucked away somewhere. LOL I later became a registered Republican but now have turned once again to Independent, so I’ve gone full-circle.

          Being recently retired, I had the opportunity for the first time to watch the entire Republican convention. What I saw over the course of those 3 days left me with a very positive feeling towards the future of the Republican party. I’m not sure how many people noticed, but this convention reflected the changing of the guard.

          Beyond the expected establishment speakers, you saw them passing the gauntlet to a youthful, exhuberant and diverse variety of speakers. They showcased the future Republican party and it was actually fun to watch them speak. Marco Rubio, Mia Love, Susan Martinez, the list is extensive and impressive. Combine the class of the 2010 tea party election with incoming 2012 Congressmen and women and I do believe the future holds a very promising blending of principled, Constitution loving legislators who are committed to bringing us back to our core principles.

          It is equally important that the right people are elected to represent us in the House and Senate. In some ways those elections are more important then the Presidential candidates. Obama had control of both houses and we ended up with Obamacare. One less democratic Senator and that never would have happened. Since Romney has picked Paul Ryan he has shown that he is serious about working with the “new” Republican party as I see it. Having the correct legislators in Washington will hold him to it.

          Have a great day and never lose your perspective!

    • joyfulgiver

      Think of it this way, I sid this earlier, too, you are not voting for the “lesser of two evils” you are voting for the “one who will prevent more evil”.

      I commend you for taking the time to consider your options. I pray more follow your lead. America cannot afford four more years of this. I’m sure you aren’t compromising on everything, I know that RP and MR have many things in common, definitely more so than RP and BO, so I think you are definitely going to be making the right decision.

      • RonPaulSupporter2

        Thanks again.

        Yes I know the USA cannot take four more years of Barack.

        Just as a side note…I read just recently that if you take every President from Truman to GW Bush and look at all the months of unemployment over 8% FOR ALL OF THEM it would total 39.

        THIS ONE PRESIDENT HAS HAD MORE MONTHS OF UNEMPLOYMENT OVER 8% THAN ALL THE PRESIDENTS IN THE LAST 64 YEARS COMBINED!!! UNBELIEVABLE!!!

        So, yeah I know it’s bad, it’s really, really bad under Barack and the scariest part is with four more years of it, IT COULD ACTUALLY GET WORSE!!!

        I’ve said in other posts to this topic that unless Romney says or does something to really piss me off, he probably has my vote.

        All the best to you!

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/HO5ZYKXQVLNQ5ZPAOYB3ZZURHU oscar

    I don’t like it, either, but it is truly as simple as Ryan put it:

    “Do you want Barack Obama to be elected? Then don’t vote for Ron Paul.”

    Consider this horrifying FACT: If, for purposes of ideology purity, living in an alternate universe, refusal to accept anything but 100%, stubbornness, chip-on-shoulder, religious bigotry, etc., millions stay home or vote for third party candidates with ZERO chance to win, a second-term Obama puts one or two more leftists on the SCOTUS. It’s lights out.
    Admitted, Romney is a weak conservative. But he has made so many public statements (even if reading his notes written by others) on free markets, individual rights, religious freedom, limited gov’t, etc., that he has no choice but go that direction. And we can hold his feet to the fire by reminding him of each and every one of them.
    And anyone who honestly cannot see any difference between Romney and Obama, or honestly believes that one of these other guys (Gary who???) has a chance to do anything but re-elect the current Traitor-In-Chief, or denies the fact that Romney will buy you some time to build a (viable) third party, should NEVER be allowed near a voting booth.
    Finally, if you libertarians get your way, and re-elect this failed president, I want you to return your license to complain, and you have my thanks, in advance, for ending this American experiment. I implore you to think and pray about your decision, before it’s too late!

  • Warren Westfall

    Rand is the politician necessary in this liberty movement. That is what many of you don’t get RP is not about winning the horse race or beauty pageant, he desire we will retain our liberty and keep the fruits of our labor. Rand is the next phase of you keeping your freedom. It took 200 yrs for these people finally make us slaves, now is our duty to start regains our true freedoms back for our progeny. And for you info voting for RP hurt the democrips just as bad as the Republibloods. Selah.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000741548577 Christopher Shane Thurwanger

    Perhaps you Romney supporters should point your fingers at the GOP instead of RP supporters if Obama wins reelection. Romney did not ‘win’ the spot on the Republican ticket, it was already predetermined. If the process had been allowed to occur normally, perhaps more RP supporters would vote for the winner of the Republican nomination. Another fact that you should face, we don’t elect the president. Except in those few states that have laws stating that the electors must cast their vote for the majority winner, your vote don’t count. You can verify this by checking our history. Popular opinion doesn’t always coincide with the outcome of presidential elections. The truth of the matter is that the Rep and Dem parties have our government in a choke hold, and have primarily since the mid 1800’s. Why do you think you only see the nominee from these 2 parties participating in the debates. Granted Perot did in ’92 as a third party, but only because Bush wanted to allow it in the hope of taking votes from Clinton. Why are so many of you settling for one of the 2 ‘choices’ forced on you? In Romneys defense, I do honestly believe more Americans will be able to return to the workforce but will not even seriously endeavor to correct the serious issues that jeopardize our nation (budget, deficit, our rights, states rights, etc, etc). That’s precisely why he was hand picked for this election. I still intend to cast my vote for Ron Paul. I am doing it because he is a true statesman and not only recognizes the problems we face but also sincerly wants to address them. He has been warning us about reaching our current state as far back as the 80’s, and yet no one would listen. Sadly, a lot of you still aren’t. In summation, instead of you pointing your finger and asking us why we aren’t supporting Romney, perhaps we should be pointing our finger at you and asking why aren’t you supporting Paul. We have just as much right to say that a vote for Romney is a vote for Obama, but we don’t. Why? Because that is your choice, you have that right just as we have ours. We are not as few in number as you are lead to believe, just ask any one of the 11,000 that attended his convention in Tampa the week of the RNC. I am not attempting to sway anyones vote that reached a logical decision, just trying to get those that have fallen into a herd mentality to reach their own decision thru logic instead of conformity or intimidation.