The Right Scoop
Consider this analogy. Let's say you have a small child that has been diagnosed with cancer. The doctor tells you that the cancer has a high probability of being cured. However, it will require surgery and chemotherapy that will be difficult and painful for your child to endure. She will lose her hair, suffer severe nausea, have difficulty eating, and will be bedridden for a period of time. As an active and energetic child, this will seem like torture to her. She is too young to understand why you would put her through all this suffering. She will be upset at you and uncooperative when you take her to get her treatments. Knowing all this, do you go ahead with the proposed treatment? Or do you reject it out of concern that your child will suffer?
It's not hard to understand that a loving parent will choose the course that is most likely to result in a permanent cure, even if it means going through some temporary pain and suffering to get there. The child may not understand why you are allowing the doctor to do this to her, but later she will. Looking back, after she is cured, everyone will be glad the right decision was made.
We are like that small child. We don't understand why we have to experience pain and suffering in this life, but later we will learn the reason. Then we will be glad that we went through it, if we endure it well. To God, this life is a temporary existence. No one survives it. We all have to suffer at times while we are here. I don't know all the reasons for it, but I believe strongly that there are good reasons. There are things we need to learn by experiencing pain. It could be that we have to taste the bitter before we can learn to appreciate the sweet. If experiencing temporary sorrow will allow us to experience eternal joy, is it not worth the price?
I would offer up this as a better answer: http://youtu.be/lD1yv4J6ohE
A written explanation here: https://cmmorrison.wordpress.com/tag/voddie-baucham/
Manfred, that was a great video. I'd never heard of Voddie Baucham before.
There's been some great discussion on this board (thanks, Scoop!). The occurrence in CT reminded me of other acts of evil perpetrated against children: Herod killed all the Hebrew boys under the age of 2 just to stop one from becoming the Christ. Pharaoh likewise killed all firstborn Hebrew boys at the time of Moses' birth. Nazis murdered about 1.5 million children.
In addition to hating all mankind, I believe Satan particularly hates children, and he knows that harm caused to innocent children hurts us deeply; conversely, if he can get adults to routinely perpetrate harm upon children, that evil corrupts us to the core. Molech demanded child sacrifice; today, there is abortion, but today there is also child slavery and child sex trafficking.
PNWShan - Thank you for your kind reply. Voddie Baucham is my pastor :-) We are thankful to God for him and all men who are faithful to the Word.
Ravi Zacharius can see right to the heart of a question, and articulate an answer that is correct, wise, kind, loving, and inviting. What a man of God. I want to grow to be just like him. :o)
"This day I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live. Deuteronomy 30:19"
God gives us an honest and real choice by offering not only himself, but also by offering something that is the opposite of himself and contains nothing of himself--we can have him if we want him, or we can have a thing that is not him in any way if we want that. It's the only REAL choice we ever actually have. It is out of choosing that which is not him that evil arises.
God does not "allow" evil, in fact his command is "Choose Life!" and he reminds us that this choice leads to life not just for us but for our children and their children. He commands us to love one another and to lay down our very lives if that what it takes. He specifically FORBIDS the things we do that harm each other. He only tolerates our evil, at great cost to himself and only for a limited time and a specific purpose. He is patient because there are more people to come who will be his, but he will NOT tolerate it forever. There will be an end to it.
When it is known that evil is simply 'disorder' something being the way it ought not be. That this creation is not a first immediate creation of GOD. It is a creation out of something that already existed i.e.'the void' the chaos', and what is chaos? nothing but total disorder, and to this disorder GOD added light, (not the light of the sun,it hadn't been created yet) but a degree of heaven i.e. 'light' or 'order' which are the same thing,or i.e.'that which is free from all disorder' out of those two things the world was created i'e' 'order and disorder' hence the 'good and evil'in this world,proof that we live in a fallen world or a world made up of good and evil.Merry Chrismas to all,much love keep up the good work ! :)
Dr Ravi has great wisdom and continues to share his faith with absolutely brilliant answers to many serious questions asked by a lost world and many Christians, he reinforces the faith of Christians that G-D through Christ Jesus through the holy spirit is still with his people.
load of bull???...in your head, heathen....
intelligent people do not discuss subjects they know nothing about, so get back to consuming illegal substance and drinking legal liquids.
Try to think on your own, do not repeat your atheist-professor's foggy opinions.
"why a good God allows evil to happen".....because Government couldnt exist without it!
What he said at the beginning reminds me of how Dinesh D'Souza puts it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foOmdp0Sj-w
EDIT: It's kind of longish, but I think worth listening to.
Late to this debate - but again, thank you, scoop, for this video by this outstanding apologete.
It bears listening to over and over again, and even on the first take I am left with hope and love.
What Ravi Zacharias also could've said (but is too god a Christian to say so) is that we can see the outworkings of atheism, where 'bad' and 'evil' have no ultimate consequences, in the horrendous murder of the innocents yesterday.
Where 'ego' has replaced God, where 'my' interests and desires are the sole measure in my life, and where others will defend my evil deeds with spurious excuses, if they don't support them outright, there we have such murderous individuals who value their own gratification higher than anything else.
And it is in this society that control by the elect is of vital importance, because how else can they get people to do as they say?
Thank you again for this video, scoop.
"And another sign appeared in heaven: and behold, a great red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads were seven diadems. And his tail swept away a third of the stars of heaven, and threw them to the earth..."
"And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which
deceived the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."
That is why we have Evil and why Evil and Humans will perish.. But not all humans will parish because some choose Good not Evil..... Or Choose to Love God not follow Satan and his angles...
Also for those who believe this is just all religious crap - A day is coming soon and You will believe in something as you're defecating upon yourselves....
Galatians 6;7 (Bible) saids "God cannot/wont be mocked. A man reaps what he sows." We have banished any mention of God from anything and everything we can think of ( we even take Christ out of Christmas) and then ask where is God, how can he let this happen? We have taught the last 50 yrs that we came from ape and that life has no purpose then wonder why we have children that act like animals. We killed almost 50 million babies in the name of choice (birth control) and then we can't understand why life has no value. There is no longer black or white,right or wrong, good or bad/evil just 50 shades of gray. We raised a generation on the idea that everybody gets a trophy just for showing up, not for earning it and they think that they graduate college into the life of luxery.
There is also a verse that saids "raise up a child in the way they should go and when they are old they wont depart from it."
and one more 2 Chronicles 7;14 "If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sins, and heal their land."
The times I've questioned my faith, I needed only to look toward the liberals to know that there is a Satan hard at work. And where there is a Satan, there is a God. And just like that; I'm back on track.
Ravi is by far the most rational, reasoned, and sound Christian apologists. Dr. Michael Youssef is another. But Dr. Ravi Zacharias is so deeply, richly steeped in the Word of God, and his logical analysis and measured, careful, reasoned answers are wonderful! I praise God for Ravi. His ministry website, rzim.org, is fabulous! Check him out! <3
God doesn't allow evil do happen. Evil people commit evil acts. God doesn't control people. But some people do believe God control's people's acts. IF God controlled people's acts, then he would be evil, because many people have committed evil acts, including recently with shootings. If you go under the belief that God is good, then you also must believe he doesn't control people's acts. Considering that people can do whatever they want (being that they have a brain that they use to think about what they want to do), then it is obvious that God doesn't control us.
Although I have had many conversations with Ravi, it is his sister Shyamala and her husband Sunder that I have known since the late 1960's. Sunder preached the memorial service when my Mother passed away and ministered to my parents for over 25 years. All I can say is that Ravi comes from good stock and he's pretty smart to boot.
If you get the opportunity, please tell him thank you for all he does. His work has really helped me grow in my faith.
Although I have had many conversations with Ravi, it is his sister Shyamala and her husband Sunder that I have known since the late 1960's. Sunder preached the memorial service when my Mother passed away and ministered to my parents for over 25 years. All I can say is that Ravi comes from good stock and he's pretty smart to boot.
I was introduced to Ravi in the late 1990's via the airwaves. He used to come on our Christian radio station every Sunday morning. I shortly thereafter found his website which included archives. I listened to those subjects which interested me most. The man is brilliant. He just is. Your honest mind will affirm that to you as well, if you listen. The program of his that first got me listening was called, "Let My People Think".
Ravi will show you that Christianity is indeed the truly intellectual position, and that contrary ones posing as such, are the epitome of intellectual as well as spiritual suicide.
If you're an atheist, listen to one who is so far beyond you, you'll wonder how you ever claimed anything about anything, much less something with such ultimate eternal import as, "In the beginning God..." or "In the beginning nothing..."
Give God another chance. Think it all the way through this time. At least be intelligent enough to realize that you don't know.
I still listen to him every Sunday night on my local radio station. I'll never get tired of his teaching and wisdom.
People choose evil
God gives everyone a choice. He doesn't want blind worship like Dictators do.
"Without eternity the problem of evil remains totally unsolved, in fact, the question remains indefensible."
Great way of saying that we get our noses glued to our belly buttons. I've said before that God's goal is not to keep us alive. The goal is to bring us back to Him. It's ludicrous to assume that prolonging mortal life is the goal, yet almost everything we deem 'evil' is tied to mortal death. If god's goal or purpose was to keep people alive and happy, then he's terrible at his job. This is why Atheists find it so hard to justify God's existence - they only believe what they can quantify and 'see', which is only 'now'.
I don't mourn for those children, I believe they were innocents and rest in the arms of the Lord. I mourn for the parents and families who are missing their loved ones. When eternity is taken into account, suddenly all evil becomes impotent unless it is personally embraced. The shooter hurt those children? Yes. But it was momentary and they have joy now.
We don't understand God's will and ways, not because they are 'mysterious' or 'secret', but because we are too focused on ourselves, on our lives, and we don't see the plan. That's all.
Yes, to God these kids are as alive as they were to us yesterday. There is only life for those who know God. The world fell at the beginning as a place of eternal habitation, but God didn't give up on us. He redeemed us through Christ.
You are right the ones left behind, are the ones who suffer and who we should feel for now. They had hopes, dreams and their lives were tied to these precious children. That has been altered now by a lunatic fill with hatred of the devil! Eternity will bring about the final justice that he escaped in this life.
Sin entered the world in the Graden. God warned Adam and Eve not to eat of the forbidden tree, but they listened to Satan who told them , that if they disobeyed Him, they would be like God and understand good and evil. Stan didn't finish his meme by also telling them, that they would then also experience good and evil.
Free will is also a factor which Ravi touched on. God isn't interested in forcing everyone to follow His will. He wants volunteers. So He gives everyone the right to choose good or evil.
"And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord." Joshua 24:15
"You may be an ambassador to England or France
You may like to gamble, you might like to dance
You may be the heavyweight champion of the world
You may be a socialite with a long string of pearls.
But you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed
You're gonna have to serve somebody,
It may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you're gonna have to serve somebody."
- Bob Dylan
People want a God that does everything for us, to eliminate all evil and make our lives perfect. When He forces us to use free-will, they wail and lament that there is no God. These are the people that also think the government must do everything for us.
If we think for ourselves, pull ourselves up by our bootstraps, and create a life for ourselves that is good, then that is what we end up with. As with God as well, if we use free-will and follow the Word, we end up enjoying the fruits of Heaven. In both cases, sometimes the road is hard and full of potholes, but the end is well worth it.
This is the test we call human existence. Can we end up where we want and do we have it in us to accomplish that? For some yes, for others, not so much.
Right. God is Love, and desires the same.
Of all the things which another can force you to do, no one can force you to love.
God's allowance and indeed gift of freewill also precludes him from forcing folks to love, either him or any other.
Were God a puppet master and we marionettes, things would be different. We were however, created in his own image, with freewill.
You know there's an interesting parallel to this in scripture. There's a point during the last supper when Jesus exposes the man who was soon to betray Him. Jesus called him out by declaring that whoever dips the bread in the cup with him will be the one who betrays Him. Lo and behold the disciple is revealed to be Judas. The very next scripture is sobering...
"Then Satan entered into Judas called Iscariot..." Luke 22:3
I believe there is always a point of decision to make. That moment in time when you have a choice to make -- to sin or to walk away. I believe when you choose to commit murder like this kid did today, there is that moment of decision when you either obey your conscience or ignore it and proceed with the crime. If you choose to engage in the crime, I believe satan does to you what he did to Judas.
After Judas committed to the decision to betray Jesus, satan entered into him and by the end of that evening he had hung himself and died.
The wages of sin is death. Sin puts us on a road to death and that's the only destination it can offer us. There is no pot of gold at the end of that road.
Jesus Christ offers us a detour. A way of escape. A road to freedom and joy. We would all do well to take the next exit.
Amen, stage9 ... I hope you don't mind, but I'd like to share those thoughts with my friends & family on Facebook.
Stage9, I love your posts and I love what you are bringing out in Scripture. You have a beautiful way of shining truth on the situation and for that I thank you!
My only issue is that the shooter wasn't a "kid." He was a 20-year old man. A young man, but a man, nonetheless. I don't know why that matters to me, but I expect a 20-year old to be a grown-up. Mature? Maybe not, but responsible for his actions for sure. Some of our finest military men are younger than 20 & you can sure believe that they take full responsibility for their actions. I hope I'm not taking anything away from your message, because you speak Truth in His name. I just bristled a bit at the "kid" part. Have a blessed day & please continue educating the rest of us! xoxo
I see what you are saying but evil is not defined by age but by the human heart,
"“The heart is deceitful above all things,
And desperately wicked;
Who can know it?" [Jer. 17:9]
I find it strangely ironic that we have a President who supports partial birth abortion is now tearing because "these kids had their entire lives ahead of them?" This is the same man whose "healthcare" plan provides for unlimited abortions for what, $1 added to insurance premiums? This is the problem. When something like this occurs our first question is "why would God allow this to happen to children" yet many of the same people support the slaughtering of those in the womb. We have a tendency to become moralists when "God does it" or "God doesn't prevent it" but murdering an unborn child somehow escapes the same criticism. It then becomes our "right." You can take away every weapon known to man and nothing will change about the heart of man. Note the last 2 verses of John 2, "But Jesus did not commit Himself to them, because He knew all men, and had no need that anyone should testify of man, for He knew what was in man." When something like this happens we always look to regulate instead of repent. Barack Obama has a mission to transform the United States of America. If he truly wants to do any good, he needs to start with his own heart.
I'd add one more thought to your post:
Once one has chosen to follow Jesus, hard and daunting as it is, then some 'choices' have already fallen away.
The heart on which God Himself has written His Law simply won't be, simply cannot be in a place where to decide about murdering children because one feels hurt.
It is an impossibility.
God is a Gentleman. He doesn't show up uninvited. One needs to invite him in.
In 1963 prayer was removed from schools. In 1973 abortion was legalized.
1. No God in schools. (formally uninvited)
2. It's OK to kill babies.
:-(
Here's a crazy suggestion.
1. Invite God back in.
2. Outlaw the killing of babies.
I cannot reason well, that for which I only have fear and faith. I also have little patience for those who pose this question not for their enlightenment, but for belittlement or academic argument. So, I hope I do not offend anyone here with the short answer I have for petty liberal minds that can neither respect, reason, nor believe:
perhaps have you considered what you have done or failed to do? That when God did send us a man destined to stop it, solve it or heal it, that you had Planned Parenthood pull him from the womb?
It does make you wonder. But what really baffles me is how whenever a high profile shooting takes place, the left immediately wants to ban guns. Yet, after millions of unborn children have been aborted, they still refuse to call for any kind of ban on abortion even though they know innocent lives would be saved. Which ban would, by orders of magnitude, save the most lives?
Not at all. I think it's been said so many times in many ways. I mean who's to say one of those children in that classroom even wasn't the next great president of the United States or the one who held the answer to a cure for cancer?
We'll never know, but each life is precious and deserves a chance. We give that much opportunity to some wild animals, why not the unborn?
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