Art Laffer endorses Herman Cain’s 999 plan



Art Laffer, a former member of Reagan’s Economic Policy Advisory Board and the man who created the Laffer Curve, has now come out and endorsed Herman Cain’s 999 plan, saying that it will undoubtedly be a huge boon to economic growth. This is very good news for Herman Cain:

HUMAN EVENTS – Famed supply-side economist Art Laffer​ told HUMAN EVENTS that Cain’s “9-9-9” plan was a pro-growth plan that would create the proper conditions for America’s economy to grow and thrive again.

“Herman Cain’s 9-9-9 plan would be a vast improvement over the current tax system and a boon to the U.S. economy,” Laffer told HUMAN EVENTS in a statement. “The goal of supply-side tax reform is always a broadening of the tax base and lowering of marginal tax rates.”

Added Laffer: “Mr. Cain’s plan is simple, transparent, neutral with respect to capital and labor, and savings and consumption, and also greatly decreases the hidden costs of tax compliance. There is no doubt that economic growth would surge upon implementation of 9-9-9.

Laffer also said that “such a system provides the least avenues to avoid paying taxes, yet also maintains the strongest incentives for work effort, production, and investment.”

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Aunt Melly
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Aunt Melly

I suggest that all of you with doubts about the 9-9-9 plan read Laffer’s entire article in the Wall Street Journal. Very informative.

Anonymous
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Anonymous

I huge supporter for Cain’s plan. I’m sure some of the media outlets will ignore this, but it should help gain even more support for Cain’s 999 plan. Hopefully they start coming out and explaining it more to the majority so people can understand it and get behind it.

ryanomaniac
Member
ryanomaniac

People. If you just take one aspect of this plan by itself then yes it looks like a negative. Please calculate the entire plan and you will see the tax savings across the board. Like the 9% corporate tax. When the corporate tax shrinks from 30 something percent the prices of the products we buy will drop significantly. That MORE than offsets the 9% sales tax everyone keeps mentioning. If a product is $14 and the sales tax is at 9% then yes it is costly but when you figure in the fact that the cost to make the product drops then the price of the product drops which in the end the money you spend at the store is less and you end up saving more money. You have to work the plan as a whole not one singular aspect of it. In the end it works out quite… Read more »

Anonymous
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Anonymous

I think that is something that Cain needs to explain more to the people; that with corporations paying only a 9% corporate tax their costs will go down for production which will allow for lower prices competitive prices. Their profits should still stay the same or more for as they won’t have to pay the high taxes that they used to.

Anonymous
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Anonymous

People fail to realize that under the 999 plan the payroll taxes that we all currently pay would be eliminated. Your employer and YOU pay 7.2% on all of your wages for FICA (Medicare and SS) for a total of 14.4%.
Mr. Cain’s plan would eliminate that tax. Think about it. Would you rather pay 7.2% on every thing you earn or 9% on everything you buy?

Anonymous
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Anonymous

Why is it you are the only one that seems to have figured this whole thing out ? Are you sure it isn’t just a figment of your imagination ?

Anonymous
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Anonymous

Just another Corporate puppet working to make the Rich richer, the Middle Class poor and the Poor destitute. A traitor to 98% of the America people with many of them not smart enough to know it.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

When seniors realize that the 9% sales tax will be used to fund Social Security they will abandon Cain in droves. They will be forced to pay for a retirement that they already paid for with their 15% FICA tax. It would be like paying off you home mortgage and then having the bank tell you to pay again for the rest of your life.

Boris Badenov
Member
Boris Badenov

Do you seriously think that 15% FICA money is hiding in some magic account somewhere waiting to be paid out? It does not exist. SS is a PONZI Lie.

Anonymous
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Anonymous

The FICA comes in via the payroll tax on all workers. There are currently 50 million retirees receiving Social Security benefits. ALL those benefits come from the FICA coming in. GET OVER THE TRUST FUND. It does not matter. Social Security is a transfer program. FICA in benefits out. The only way SS can go broke is if there is 100% unemployment with no one paying the FICA. You clearly do not know how the program works.

Anonymous
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Anonymous

The problem is that it is supposed to be my money. I’m paying into it but I definately won’t get what I put in when I retire. Its MY MONEY! They need to sunset the program and get rid of it. If the program is so great then why dont’ they make it voluntary?? At least provide an option to pay SS or not. I like the Chilean model as Cain does.

Anonymous
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Anonymous

BTW Boris – if you happen to be employed take a look at your pay stub. There is a section there on the FICA tax you pay. Just where do you think that money goes?
Answer: current retirees.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

I don’t know if you are a senior or not. But there is a simple solution to that. Do like I have and many other retired citizens have. Retire abroad you will avoid the 9%
sales tax and still collect your SS. I live very comfortable in Costa Rica and receive my SS direct deposit here in a local bank. When I get homesick I can go and visit any time the mood strikes me. ( But I will make as few purchases as possible if the tax is in place). Puravida from Costa Rica

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

Excellent post gring – I am not far behind you. But it is a shame that those that paid into SS all their lives must leave the States in order to be treated fairly.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

My husband and I are looking for places to go ex-pat in 10 years. We could live on much less income like kings.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

Thank you, I have no regrets about living here it is a beautiful place. This might sound terrible but here in CR the only people I have run into here so far with a bad attitude are other x patriots the locals here always greet you with a with a smile and a friendly disposition.
Puravida de Costa Rica (puravida meaning pure life )

Subject: [trscoop] Re: Art Laffer endorses Herman Cain’s 999 plan

Boris Badenov
Member
Boris Badenov

Say what you will but Laffer, Levin and Ryan have endorsed Cains plan ..

Not a bad start.. Matter of fact that’s a damn good start..

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

What most people are unaware of is that Mr. Cain’s plan will eliminate all personal exemptions and deductions as we know them now. Per example after claiming my personal exemptions and allowed deductions my final tax obligatin to the IRS is $1,118.00 under Mr. Cain’s 999 plan my tax obligation would increase to $3,516.00 an increase of horrific proportions. Also per example in the state of California the purchase of a new car lets say with a price of $25,000.00 you would have added to that $2,188.00 for state sales tax also you would need to pay an additional $2,250.00 in federal consumer sales tax under Mr. Cain’s 999 plan a tax that does not exsist at the moment. The taxes I pay are based on retirement income under current regulations I pay tax on a pension and a portion of my SS income. Possibly under Mr Cains plan I… Read more »

Jack Lynch
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Jack Lynch

i represent a new organization call please banrupt america. we support cain’s plan 100 per cent-once social securty and medicare are abrogated kaput ended thanks to that democratic bastartd fdr we can be a fee county-media people can call me at 775-348-7990-herman cain isthe only politicain with guts. he knows 9-9-9- is part 1 the end of government is part 11- his program is no revenue neutral- his program is for americans to end government as we know ir. we may have riots but in the end we will be free no medicaid, no social security, no medicare hnerman cain is america’s great american. bankrupt america now so we all be free.

Anonymous
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Anonymous

I am 67 years old I have had SS contributions deducted from my income for a period of 47 years. So appearently what you are saying is that those 47 years and the thousands of dollars I paid into the system should account for nothing. And in spite of my current physical condiition due to my age
I should start working again or starve to death. Your attitude seems very radical. Perhaps you could do something simular to an infamous character in
history. Perhaps you could start a movement to have all of the elderly in this country transported to a central location and put to death.

Mikhail Kennedy
Member
Mikhail Kennedy

Nobody has advocated just ending the social security system without continuing to pay for those who have retired or are near retirement age. I think you have fallen for the democrats commercial showing granny being pushed off the cliff in her wheelchair.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

I have no doubt that the person that was ranting and raving about SS and medicare and described FDR as being a SOB, that it isn’t far from his mind. And secondly is it wrong for me to want my children and grandchildren to have bestowed upon them the same privlages that I enjoyed. This person stated that ss should be ended period I don’t see where that suggests consideration for anybody past or present. My qualm is not with everybody in general it was specifically with this person. He is in my opinion very irrational. If you are suggesting I am weak minded then you have appointed yourself judge and jury. Have a nice day.

Subject: [trscoop] Re: Art Laffer endorses Herman Cain’s 999 plan

Mikhail Kennedy
Member
Mikhail Kennedy

It is wrong to encourage your children and grandchildren to pay into a ponzi scheme that will bankrupt the country and leave them with nothing. I am only 46 and I realize that I will be receiving no government benefits when I retire, unfortunately that is the way ponzi schemes operate. There will be no money to pay for my retirement even if everyone pays increased taxes and premiums.
Most people who want to get rid of SS are unanimous in their conviction that those who are near retirement age will be paid and the rest will take the hit so that their children are not burdened with unreasonable taxes to support the scheme that is Social Security.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

Ponzi scheme this is a little quip that Rick Perry borrowed from Rush Limbaugh so I don’t give the accusation much credit. Rush Limbaugh is known for making many extremely irrational comments. It has been brought to attention that at the least 25 years from now if there aren’t at least some small modifications made that whatever a person was scheduled to get would be reduced by 25 %. The modifications would not need to be anything extreme. The SS program as it was originally written was a very credible program. The problems that it encounters today was created by congress literally stealing money from SS coffers to support their extravagant spending. With the promise of replacing the money which never happened. And now these thief’s are placing the blame on inefficiency’s of the SS system. Par for the course. The ss system and everyone that has contributed to it… Read more »

Mikhail Kennedy
Member
Mikhail Kennedy

As it stands Social Security cannot stand on it’s own. If the gov’t had put the money aside and invested it the plan would be solvent. The problem that the public faces is that the gov’t cannot be trusted. If the monies deducted to fund the program were put in a private account where the gov’t could not spend it then the public would be much better off. The plan needs a drastic overhaul as people are living longer and longer. The gov’t CANNOT be trusted to safeguard this money. It must be managed by the individual.
My apologies if I have offended you in any earlier posts, I have been accused more than once of having too much passion and not enough reason in my arguments.
I will agree with you that the government is a thief.
Have a good evening also.

Boris Badenov
Member
Boris Badenov

Why do people think because they see things a certain way it is all the sudden a majority?

Sounds like how the Unions think.. They swear their 6% is the voice of the people..

Garett Nicols
Guest
Garett Nicols

Do you think products will remain the same price over the long haul or will there be a decrease in prices due to the fact that corporate taxes have decreased by 26%. We can sit around and pretend we’re experts , when in truth we don’t don’t know what the hell we’re talking about. Quit worrying about it cause it’s along way away if ever!

Anonymous
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Anonymous

If the corporations experience a significant decrease in corperate taxes I am sure the money will stay in their coffers and prices will remain the same. Would it be incorrect to say that they have a gluttonous appetite for money. No I don’t think so. It is such a simple thing you and I John J Citizen are going to be paying more yearly in federal tax partly due to no more exemptions or deductions. You will be paying 9% on your gross income compare that to your last tax return. Plus do not forget whatever you pay in state sales tax now you will be paying in addition to that tax another 9% that goes to Washington for everything you purchase from cars to toilet paper.

Anonymous
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Anonymous

I think you are wrong with the corporate pricing. Think about it like this. You and I are stiff competitors of each other. Our costs are the same and currently our selling prices are nearly identical. Suddenly our costs are reduced by 25%. You sit quietly and watch to see if i move my prices any. I am selfish as I represent corporations in your eyes. A few weeks go past and my prices are the same as are yours. At this point you realize that you can easily get some of my customers by giving back some of the savings you got to the customers, both current and new. You drop your prices 15% and your sales move up accordingly while I start to suffer. If I want to maintain some of my customer base I will have to lower my prices to more closely align with yours. I,… Read more »

ryanomaniac
Member
ryanomaniac

Thank goodness for someone with some common sense here. I was losing my confidence in Right Scoop readers. Thanks for a simple explanation that probably still isn’t simple enough for some.

Anonymous
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Anonymous

Ditto

Anonymous
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Anonymous

I understand completely what you are saying we all hope for the best. But unfortunately in part it may be wishful thinking. But at this time however what any of us think it is purely speculation. Obviously in truth none of us will know what is going to happen until everything is on the table. I guess in reality I am a hopeless pessimist I always anticipate the worst. But in a way there is a little advantage to it. For if in the end everything turns out well you end up enjoying the outcome just that much more. My philosophy has always been that the difference between a pessimist an an optimist is that an optimist anticipates paying $5.00 dollars for a loaf of bread down the line and a pessimist says that it will be a 100 rupees. Have a good day, Gringico44 Subject: [trscoop] Re: Art Laffer… Read more »

Anonymous
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Anonymous

“What most people are unaware of is that Mr. Cain’s plan will eliminate all personal exemptions and deductions as we know them now” False. You also seem to be intentionally ignoring other aspects of the plan that will benefit you and offset what you think you will see increases in. You cannot just focus on your income taxes and a sales tax. Plus your example – do you plan on buying lots of new cars or something? The only way that the sales tax part would make any sense is if you felt the need to buy a brand new car every year then ok, you have a case to cry foul, but that is a stupid example to use. “his plan may not exempt a portion of my SS income” May not? Clearly a guess on your part but you are coming to conclusions based on your guess? And… Read more »

Anonymous
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Anonymous

I really hope that you are right but all any of us can do at this time is just speculate. Gringico44

Subject: [trscoop] Re: Art Laffer endorses Herman Cain’s 999 plan

Gringico44
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Gringico44

Refer to 6th hour comment

Anonymous
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Anonymous

This is big for me. I really respect Laffer and his economic knowledge has been proven to be solid. I think Cain can pull together the team to lead us out of this mess if elected. Romney and Newt have a honesty problem. Perry cannot debate so he would not be able to hold his own in a debate with Obama even though everything Obama would say would be a lie. You know the MSM would not challege it and Perry would not be able to challenge it either. Yes we Cain.

Neo Con John
Member
Neo Con John

Question please:
Would Mr. Cains 9-9-9 plan be in addition to state taxes we have in various states, or do they go away too ????

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

Yes, it has nothing to do with state and local taxes just federal.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

Neo Con John’s final question was will the state taxes go away. What I read was that your reply was yes. This is untrue state taxes will remain in place. Whatever
amount your are paying to your immediate state in their established tax rate
will be accompanied by Mr Cain’s 9% federal consumer tax. So simply you will be paying 9% more than you did before. Please understand this is apart from the
9% you will be paying on your gross income no exemptions or deductions allowed.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

I did understand that state taxes do stay the same. I mostly see this plan as a jumping off plan. I do not think it will be the final plan but the current tax laws have got to go. GE among other big corporations paying no taxes has to be corrected. We have to start somewhere.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

I agree you are absolutely correct. But the best step in the right direction without question will be getting Obama out of the White House. I think that right now he is just enjoying the ride. He is taking advantage to the fullest extent of his executive privilages. I think that is what he is most concerned about losing. Have a good evening.

Subject: [trscoop] Re: Art Laffer endorses Herman Cain’s 999 plan

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

i understood what was meant and he did not mean that state taxes would go away. But if you want to make an assumption about his response let me do that to you as well. “established tax rate will be accompanied by Mr Cain’s 9% federal consumer tax. So simply you will be paying 9% more than you did before. Please understand this is apart from the 9% you will be paying on your gross income no exemptions or deductions allowed.” Misleading on purpose i am going to assume. From the 999 plan page, “Individual Flat Tax – 9%. Gross income less charitable deductions. Empowerment Zones will offer additional deductions for those living and/or working in the zone.” There are also monies like capital gains that you do not have to pay taxes at all on. So while income tax may not change for some, over all nearly everyone will… Read more »

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

I sincerely hope that you are right.

Subject: [trscoop] Re: Art Laffer endorses Herman Cain’s 999 plan

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

I can’t believe people are still trying to fault this plan. Great for Cain that Laffer has come out and said this, but it shows how silly the electorate are if they need men in white coats to okay a plan as simple and obviously-beneficial as Cain’s before they’re like, “Oh yh that is a good idea.” Pathetic, I think. Go Laffer! Go Cain!

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

Anyone who knows economics and the great minds who have put their 2 cents in know this is a big deal, congrats Cain!

Darren Anderson
Guest
Darren Anderson

There are a few things that no one is talking about with the 999 plan. If you take an individual that earns 50,000 per year their initial tax decrease would be about $3,150. That’s a nice savings. Now here is the other point. If they paid their mortgage (estimated $1,000 per month), car payments ($350 per month) and charge cards ($200 per month) like most Americans citizens, and then take out their retirement contibutions ($200 per month), the amount of money that they have to spend would be about $26,100. If they went out and spent every dollar that they have left and paid the 9% tax on this, they would pay an additional $2349 in taxes, giving them a savings of $801 yearly savings. The point is that with the extra money that every individual has, they will have the opportunity to lower their existing debt quicker. If they… Read more »

FishyGov
Guest
FishyGov

Herman should approach his explanation of the 999 plan as if no one has ever read it or heard about it before. I see people are confused when Cain and his web site don’t articulate that 999 is just Phase 1 of his tax reformation plan. And most of the confusion appears to be just what is taxed in the 9% Sales tax. 1) At first and still on his website Mr. Cain’s plan call for a 9% sales tax — we could assume that means on all transactions. He has since verbally stated that food and used items would be exempted. The exemptions need to be fleshed out for us to completely understand where he’s going with the Phase 1 national sales tax. 2) I suggested to his campaign the the 9% sales tax only be charged on new finished good and services. This would put a stop to… Read more »

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

” He has since verbally stated that food and used items would be exempted.”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZ_PGX7N57E

Cain’s lie about the 6% savings was also debunked by me on another thread and I also provided a link to to the 2011 Federal Income tax calculator so you can check it yourself.

Not only that,the socialist Lawrence O’Donnell debunked the lie about the FALSE SAVINGS for the lower income.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/44883830#44883830

I haven’t been able to find any info to verify O’Donnell’s claim that Cain wants to abolish SS, but the rest of the info is correct.

It’s a shame it has to be a liberal network to challenge Cain’s plan.

At least now the plan will start seeing some sunlight and Cain won’t be able to answer every question with it’s a bold plan.

FishyGov
Guest
FishyGov

“I haven’t been able to find any info to verify O’Donnell’s claim that Cain wants to abolish SS, but the rest of the info is correct.”

It’s in the last three paragraphs of his Entitlements segment on the “Issues” page.

http://www.hermancain.com/the-issues

Jamie Lowe
Guest
Jamie Lowe

Imagine how great it will be when it is 20/20/20 plan. I WILL NOT VOTE FOR A MAN THAT WANTS A NATIONAL SALES TAX EVER! Ron Paul 2012!!!!

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

You mean the guy that blames America for 9/11?

Bobn
Member
Bobn

That is the thing that I dislike the most about Ron Paul. I was standing about a block away from the WTC on 9/11 and watched the towers burn and people jump to their deaths. When anyone says we deserved it or that it was an inside job, my blood boils. There is absolutely no way that we deserved that.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

Too bad Ron Paul never blamed America for 9/11, never said it was an inside job, and never ever said we deserved it. He simply explained, exactly what the CIA knew at the time, that Osama Bin Laden made countless statements that he would attack our airlines over the Pacific, because the US had been setting up military bases on Muslim land. Ron Paul told us that our foreign policy was directly related to why 9/11 happened. Anyone who truly believes that we were attacked because people hate our freedom (which is how Bush explained it) is a FOOL!!!!

Bobn
Member
Bobn

Okay, he didn’t blame us for 9/11 but he did say that Bin Laden said that it was our foreign policy that caused them to attack us on 9/11. I got it now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfBKKh0C2eo

Jamie Lowe
Guest
Jamie Lowe

I wonder how many of these “Conservatives” attacking Dr Paul have ever read his books. I would say ZERO. It is too easy to attack him for what they think he believes or reportedly said.

Bobn
Member
Bobn

I’m quite sure that Ron Paul said in a recent debate that he would support a consumption tax.

Darren Anderson
Guest
Darren Anderson

A key reason for the “national sales tax” is that there are BILLIONS of dollars in unreported money in this country. (Drugs, prostitution, sale of stolen merchandise, and the list goes on.) By having a national sales tax, we could get a small share of this money back from the “non-taxpayers”. There are just too many people collecting welfare and making a great living by selling drugs, or illegal aliens working for cash and not paying anything in taxes. The next time you read in the newspaper about a drug bust of millions of dollars worth of cocaine think about the money that will never be taxed because these people are breaking our laws! Right now the government is taking money out of your check so they can send it to them to pay their rent so they have more time to deal drugs! A national sales tax is fair,… Read more »

Bobn
Member
Bobn

Jamie, I found this on RonPaul2012. Go look yourself. Your God thinks that a national sales tax is better than the income tax. He does qualify it to say that the 16th amendment needs to be repealed first (and I agree with that). Part of the FairTax is to repeal the 16th amendment. Since you can’t vote for Ron Paul now, who will you be voting for?

“While a Flat Tax or a Fair Tax would each be a better alternative to the income tax system, Congressman Paul believes we would have to guarantee the 16th Amendment is repealed to avoid having both the income tax and one of these systems as an additional tax.”

Jamie Lowe
Guest
Jamie Lowe

Herman Con wants both. I will not support giving the federal government even more money to piss away doing things that they are not constitutionally mandated to do.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

“Herman Con wants both”

prove it. considering the 999 plan works towards eventual implimentation of the fairtax which does away with the 16 amendment as previously mentioned. That, in itself, shows support of the 16th amendment going away in order for 999 to b brought in.

Do you think they are actually that stupid or something?

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

Remember that the plan requires a 2/3 super majority to pass an increase. You did read that, right?

Boris Badenov
Member
Boris Badenov

Don’t let the little details bother the business as usual crowd…
It’s the same when they talk about the FairTax…

They want to keep the criminal U.S. Tax Code forever..

They would rather live with a thoroughly corrupt system that contains thousands of backroom deals of benefit to special interest and the Politicians that wrote the deals than go to a Transparent tax system that brings everyone into the system…

Idiots…

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

So you are okay with 47% not paying any federal taxes at all.

Boris Badenov
Member
Boris Badenov

Alborn, They have no logical response to your question.
They are illogical .

They oppose anything other than the status quo. Think about this.
How can they oppose something like the FairTax or Cains approach , they come up with a reason (usually1 and it is usually debatable) when the current Tax Code has THOUSANDS of issues that screw Americans.. Yet they can’t bring their little minds to change course and accept a slightly imperfect proposal yet they will live out their lives under a monstrosity of corruption known as the United States Tax Code…

Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face..

KenInMontana
Editor
KenInMontana

I can approach opposing Cain’s 9/9/9 plan and the Fair Tax that it is designed to lead to quite simply by supporting the Flat Tax. One percentage rate for all, no gimmicks(prebates), no national sales tax. I could support Cain’s plan if the sales tax were dropped but, I am opposed to what amounts to an additional tax.

Jamie Lowe
Guest
Jamie Lowe

So those are the only choices?

KenInMontana
Editor
KenInMontana

First let’s fix that so it is in fact honest and correct,

So you are okay with 47% not paying any federal Income taxes at all?

J.A. Topfke
Member
J.A. Topfke

Is that the same Art Laffer as at the beginning of this clip? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I0QN-FYkpw

FishyGov
Guest
FishyGov

Yup, that’s the same guy who argued with Peter Schiff about a coming recession in 2007 or 2008. Laffer was dead wrong and lost a penny bet to Schiff who was spot on with his prediction.

Kenneth
Member
Kenneth

Okay Cain stipulates that there will be a 9% flat business, individual, and national sales tax. What about all the other taxes we pay? You know, the ones enacted by the government on various levels of production that are incorporated into the prices that we pay, taxes that we don’t necessarily see because they are incorporated into those prices and costs? Further a national sales tax is not a good idea, and I’m not fond of anyone advocating such an idea. Taxation at the state level is supposed to be higher than taxation at the national level, not the other way around. A national sales tax will only maintain that imbalance, continue taking money from the States and funneling it to the Federal government for them to decide how to divide and redistribute. Sales taxes should remain only at the State and local level, never national. And no, I’m not… Read more »

Casey Kelley
Guest
Casey Kelley

Per Cain’s staff economist, Rich Lowrie: 9% sales tax won’t raise prices. It’s a REPLACEMENT tax, not an add-on tax. It replaces taxes already embedded in prices. Marginal costs go down.

Remember that with corporate tax at a flat 9% and hidden taxes removed, the prices of goods will go down ↓ Corporations inflate the cost of their goods to pay their corporate taxes.

Hidden Taxes: How Much do You Really Pay?:

http://www.ipi.org/IPI/IPIPublications.nsf/PublicationLookupFullText/A9A7AA39F78128BB86256AB700627702

KenInMontana
Editor
KenInMontana

That 9% sales tax will be imbedded in their stead, at every step and at every purchase in the chain of production and those tax expenditures will find their way into the price you pay for any goods you purchase, and then they will whack you one more time at the register with 9% of the inflated price you just paid.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

You’ve just described a VAT which the 999 plan is not.

KenInMontana
Editor
KenInMontana

I know what it is I described, however, are not components and raw materials “new”? What I am pointing out is what are known as “Unintended Consequences”. 9/9/9 and the Fair Tax with their sales tax components will lead to a VAT in everything but name. Which is why I prefer the Flat Tax.

Kenneth
Member
Kenneth

If that is the intent, Herman Cain’s web site needs to be updated. I could find no mention on his web site that the sales tax is a replacement tax, and I’m having difficulty finding a quote as such. Do you have a citation you can provide?

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

its all there on the 999 part of herman cain’s website. Not in the words that apparently you are looking for but there are a couple places in which lists of taxes are shown that will go bye-bye that are replaced with 999. Keep in mind that the plan page is a summary and clearly not written as it would be presented to Congress. They have to choose the words that people are looking, putting in enough detail so people read and understand the plan’s intent while not putting up so much information that most people will not read it. I mean the plan page can be read in 5 minutes and gives a pretty good idea of what would occur. They cannot cover every aspect on the page and maybe using your preferred word choice would leave the majority asking even more questions. they most likely ran the page… Read more »

Kenneth
Member
Kenneth

One simple statement would cover what Casey is alleging has already been said: “All existing taxes levied on manufacturing and production will be repealed.” Simple “summary” statement that will easily fit in a bullet point.

There is nothing that has been said to indicate that is part of his plan. If that becomes part of his plan if he gets the chance to implement it, then great. But otherwise it’s not good to make statements not corroborated anywhere that I can find.

BigM
Member
BigM

What befuddles me are all the critics of this plan. Don’t you think for moment that Mr. Cain has an “Ace” up his sleeve in not sharing who drafted the plan and that it would indicate that whomever put the plan together, are people of such stature in the economic world, that no one would have grounds to refute them based on their stature and reputation??

Folks, he didn’t just conjure this up. This guy is a business man. He purposely surrounds himself with experts.

All I have to say is once those who are responsible for drafting this plan are revealed, there won’t be many willing to step up to the plate and still say this plan is “bunk”!

Besides, we desperately need something to kick start this economy again.

Kenneth
Member
Kenneth

You make it sound like this plan is immune from criticism.

And further, who drafted the plan is immaterial. The contents of the plan are what I am addressing. It doesn’t matter if he reveals who helped him draft the plan. The fact it even says that the end goal is the Fair Tax is enough for me to say, “Don’t bother putting the key in the engine.”

The issue with taxation right now is not just that we have too much taxation, it’s also the wrong taxation. As I said, States should be taxing heavier than the Federal government. Cain’s plan does nothing about that imbalance.

Yes we need something to kickstart the economy, but that doesn’t mean we settle for just any plan, regardless of how good it might sound on paper.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

Well according to Mr. Mitt, it’s too simple. Apparently simple and elegant can’t trump tedious and complex 59 point plans.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

Mr. Cain will be our next President. He connects with American people and his policies are a big KISS. Unlike Mr. Romney. For those who are fearful about the 999 turning into 101010 or 151515, I will calm your fears. A couple of years ago Jon Corzine raised the NJ sales tax from 6% to 7%, not a 1 cent increase a 17% increase in all purchases. We all know what happened to him in the next election. The visibility of the tax will make it very difficult for it to be increased. The people will hold the tax rate with their vote not the politicians. Cain brings the power to the people. Sounds Reaganistic to me.

Steven
Guest
Steven

This plan is a good plan. Don’t succumb to the hype of a panicked GOP Establishment! Support Cain! Let’s keep the corrupt GOP Establishment from choosing our nominee. Cain can win! He can get more of the black vote than the GOP historically has and that’s enough to win in a landslide, since the GOP has somehow manage to win elections losing 90% of that vote. If Cain gets just 20% of that vote, he wins Pennsylvania and Michigan. Anything more than that he puts New York and California in play, since if he’s attracting black votes, he is likely to also attract Hispanic support. Lastly, the GOP nomination now is Cain’s to lose. Imagine if Cain, comes up with a “back up” plan in case there’s a constitutional issue with 9-9-9. Let’s say he calls it 15-15. He wins the nomination. The only complaint about 9-9-9 is the sales… Read more »

John LaRosa
Guest
John LaRosa

Show of hands: How many people have read the 9/9/9 plan in its entirety before commenting?

Show of hands: How many people have read the current US Tax Code in its entirety before commenting?

Show of hands: How many people have read any of the other GOP candidates’ plans?

Show of hands: How many think Obama even has a plan (or a clue)?

Remember, Congress writes, discusses and passes the bills. This is a framework that might be tweaked, but it’s a good start. A CEO provides direction and inspiration. In this case, the direction is economic growth and private sector job creation and the inspiration is to think creatively when addressing economic crises.

Jewell Nancy
Guest
Jewell Nancy

good point John and we are still waiting for Perry’s plan it is coming , sound familiar?

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

I have read the 9 9 9 plan. I can’t read or do I understand the US tax code. Perry doesn’t have a plan but I don’t support him. Everyone else’s plan with the Exception of Newt Gingrich is not clearly written, because it is off the tax code we have now, and Newt has his written in the contract with America.

Congress does write and discuss this. the only thing I see having an issue passing before Congress is the Sales Tax part of his plan. Because States will be screaming about the tax, some dont’ have it, and others have one, and it will add to that. so that Might be the only part that will have issues of passing.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

I can remember when Congress had to pass the Bill’s for the Presidents signature. Did I miss a change in that? There will be a lot of new faces in the Congress after this vote and a lot of new ideas will be presented and debated and voted on, maybe 999 or something else will emerge from that debate. He is talking about doing away with the present tax code and that to me is a great start. He wishes to do away with more than that and is speaking about it. Did you ever think that in your lifetime Congress would be pressed to do away with Agencies. If we give him the Congress he will need to do that it would be a boom to this Nation.

Casey Kelley
Guest
Casey Kelley

But it also strips out the “sneak-a-taxes” currently embedded in goods including food. Under 999, groceries would actually be cheaper. Not to mention the 18 cents per gallon national sales tax on gasoline that we currently pay will be eliminated.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

What’s with all the complaining about 999? 1 it’s a new revenue stream for the central government. It’s new but not additional, it replaces the income tax for both the individual and corporations. 2 Congress can raise it anytime they want. Yea and they have that authority now. The way it is now; sssshhhhh as we speak congress is raising your taxes- and you’ll never know it because the tax code is so convoluted! At least they will have to do it in the broad light of day with no way to hide it from you and me. 3 It taxes household goods so food prices will go up. Yep, but your state does that now, and don’t forget your income tax is going way down for both you and the grocery store , so for most people it should be a wash. Cain (masters in mathematics says it’s revenue… Read more »

Jaynie59
Member
Jaynie59

1) It does not get rid of the IRS.

2) Huh? Who will have the power if Congress doesn’t?

3) More tax authority doesn’t make me happy.

4) In what universe would this perfect world exist?

Josh
Member
Josh

1. The IRS collects taxes, yes. But it also enforces the convoluted tax code. They will still collect, but any idiot can multiply gross x 9% and come up with a number. No loopholes, no exemptions, just 9%.

2. As it is now, a committee in Congress can change the tax law to state that any company that builds solar panels and whose name starts with an S is exempt from corporate tax. With 9-9-9, all companies have a level playing field. Congress cannot play favorites. The power is given back to the people.

3. Not more tax authority. More people in the pool to pay taxes.

4. Herman Cain’s universe.

Cain 2012

Esbc Cavecity
Guest
Esbc Cavecity

Jaynie 59, I don’t know what is up your butt! But you are an idiot! Even if 9-9-9 is flawed it blows our current economic system out of the water. Change is scary but so is our countries future if we stay the course. If you are such an expert on economic issues why aren’t you involved in consulting these candidates instead of spending hours on a internet forum. Do you have a job? how come you can spend hours typing your non-sense if you are employed. Don’t tell us your self-employed either, because we will see right through that response. Give us your plan instead of finding fault with others who are trying to save our country. I’m serious i want to hear your plan. i you don’t have one SHUT UP!!!!!!!!!!!!

BigM
Member
BigM

I’m assuming in regards to question 1, that we still need someone to collect. But, I would also assume that the IRS employee role would decrease hopefully by 70%!! smile

MontyRay
Member
MontyRay

I’ve been contemplating the “unseen effects” of 9-9-9. There are arguments out there about opening up a new tax for the government to use. I get it.
I think it would be beneficial to have some language in its future legislative proposal around restraining Congress’ ability to ever raise the new tax percentage. With that said, I still am not convinced his plan opens any Pandora’s Boxes.
I think the plan’s simplicity is the magic of it. Because it is simple, it is easy to grasp and understand. Thus, the American People can respond in kind if their government is attempting to lay out a larger tax burden than they are willing to allow.

Bobn
Member
Bobn

The legislation would include language that would require a 2/3 majority to increase it. That would be a huge task.

Jaynie59
Member
Jaynie59

Oh, this is just too sad for words.

Oh, God. Whatever.

Bobn
Member
Bobn

Well that’s an incredibly cogent argument.

RexSalvator does a great job of laying out the argument. Why don’t you read it and then hurl some f-bombs and inane comments at his well thought out comment?

Jaynie59
Member
Jaynie59

I just did.

Bobn
Member
Bobn

John LaRosa and Steven’s posts are great too. Go get ’em!

BTW, if you’re not a Paultard, who do you think is more Conservative than Herman Cain?

Jaynie59
Member
Jaynie59

Newt Gingrich, for one.

Bobn
Member
Bobn

Is Global Warming a conservative issue?

Don’t get me wrong, I like Newt but he goes to show that no one is perfect and I think supporting global warming is a big flaw. I think Cain/Newt would be a great combo – especially if Newt stipulates (after the election) that he might just be interested in one term to make way for DeMint, Rubio, Bachmann, Pence or West or another prominent conservative to join the ticket in 2016.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

Jaynie, Newt is a brilliant man – but Newt doesn’t seem to want the job. Not really. I went to his website to see where he is campaigning and guess what? He’s not. The “Events” page goes to Gingrich Productions which lists dates for his WIFE’S book tour (she wrote a kid’s book). Nothing about Newt. The States page has more information about upcoming primaries, but has *nothing* about when and where he’ll be campaigning. I’m not quite sure why Newt’s in the race if he’s not willing to spend the time and effort to campaign.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

This is big news! Art Laffer is a brilliant, highly respected economist and was perhaps the leading architect behind Reagan’s very successful economic policies. If he supports Cain’s 999 plan it becomes very credible. Now the other candidates are going to have a much more difficult time criticizing it.

Jaynie59
Member
Jaynie59

No Republican can get elected telling poor people to buy used. I don’t like it and I’m not poor.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

Drive a new car off the lot to your home and you’ve already lost 20% of the ‘value’.

Josh
Member
Josh

Poor people already buy used. I am poor and I LOVE IT!

Boris Badenov
Member
Boris Badenov

SO you can’t wrap you mind around being in control all by yourself as to when you will or will not pay taxes….

Interesting….

I make a nice living and I have no problem buying a slightly used vehicle… It makes for good financial sense.

But then to each his/her own..

BigM
Member
BigM

Jaynie for crying out loud get a clue!! Poor people can not buy most anything new to begin with. My gosh you are so driven with your opinions and sadly in the wrong direction.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

In the end, I’ll vote for whoever gets nominated. We must boot out the marxist obama!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jaynie59
Member
Jaynie59

We wouldn’t be dealing with Obama if he hadn’t won the primaries and the nomination. We cannot make the same mistake.

MJS
Member
MJS

As long as it isn’t Romney

Bobn
Member
Bobn

Do Rick Santorum, Michelle Bachmann, New Gingrich and Mitt Romney know more about economics than Art Laffer? Herman Cain will have some backup at the next debate.

The principles are simple. Broaden the base. Lower the rates for everyone. Simplify. 999 and the FairTax do all three – big time. Lobbyists, establishment politicians and lawyers will fight this to the bitter end but it a huge piece of what we need to get our country back.

Regulations and spending are the other two huge pieces of the puzzle. The deficit would be a non-issue simply because it would take care of itself. If we fix all three, watch out, the results would be nothing short of breathtaking.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

I like the trolls all saying it is a terrible plan. Every other candidate’s plan just kicks the can down the road (IF they even have a plan). To get the economy going we need something drastic like 999, not “lets close this loophole, and create this new one, lets get rid of this deduction, and make this new one”

Jaynie59
Member
Jaynie59

You don’t help your argument by calling those of us who see what a terrible idea the 999 plan is a troll.

Tell me something, what do you think of Cain’s argument that buying used goods is an answer to concerns about the 9% federal sales tax? How do you think that sounds to people who are worried about it?

edenjac
Guest
edenjac

if you’re worried over the 9-9-9 I would suggest looking over the complete idea of the plan, both phases and also keep in mind the energy independece, regulation steps we’ll take. If you are only looking at the 9% sales tax and not the other 9-9 and how this will change the ways we do things in business and goverment it makes sense that you worry.

Jaynie59
Member
Jaynie59

The 9% personal income tax is also a bad idea unless it exempts Social Security recipients. Cain’s explanation about the payroll tax is fantasy. If that 15% payroll tax he talks about goes away, it will NOT go to the employee unless another law is passed that forces business to give it to the employee. More regulation.

And, anyone who thinks 999 will stay 9-9-9 is a f*cking fool. There’s no other way to say it. You are a frigging FOOL if you think 9-9-9 won’t be 19-19-19 in no time.

Fools.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

It does…Social Security will not be taxed, I was told this directly by the campaign

Jaynie59
Member
Jaynie59

Has anybody told Herman Cain?

edenjac
Guest
edenjac

See this is how I know you have not read the plan. The 9-9-9 its only a transition phase to the Fair tax, which means that by the end of his administration there will be no more personal income tax, no more corporate income tax and no more IRS as we know it, so it becoming 19-19-19 will be not an issue if 9-9-9 works to bring jobs and growth to the country that I think it will like MR. Laffer states.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

Is this Rick Santorum disguised as a poster?

Boris Badenov
Member
Boris Badenov

lol

MontyRay
Member
MontyRay

Almost as foolish as those like you who think the current tax code doesn’t already have those dangers you speak of built in, baked, and exercised. Just go research how much tax Google or GE paid last year. Don’t be a fool. If you think 999 is worse than what is in place today, you are indeed a fool.

Boris Badenov
Member
Boris Badenov

Jaynie59 sez:
” And, anyone who thinks 999 will stay 9-9-9 is a f*cking fool. There’s no other way to say it. You are a frigging FOOL if you think 9-9-9 won’t be 19-19-19 in no time.

Fools. ”

Takes 2/3rds vote to raise it. I have enough faith in the Tea Party that it won’t happen for a very long time…

Changing the way we do business has to start with the Tax Code… or it will never change..

Boris Badenov
Member
Boris Badenov

And you think you are helping yours by calling us
and I will quote you:
“frigging FOOL” ” F’cking fools” and telling us to “Shut Up” ??

That’s really pretty amusing…

MJS
Member
MJS

We need a Fair or Flat tax, anything else is idiotic…it shouldn’t take paying H&R block either $200 to do it yourself or stopping in and paying $400 and 2-4 hours to do your taxes just for a basic package.

10 minutes and one page, that’s it. No subsidies, loopholes, deductions, etc. THAT is real reform and would be a boom. I’m open to ideas.

Josh
Member
Josh

How about 2 lines:
1. How much did you make:____
2. Multiply by 0.09 = : ________ <= Pay this amount

MJS
Member
MJS

Works for me!

Boris Badenov
Member
Boris Badenov

No joke… Would be a beautiful thing..

Boris Badenov
Member
Boris Badenov

Even Russia has a flat tax….

Open your freakin eyes people..

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

Cain / Gingrich 2012, nuff said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bobn
Member
Bobn

That is a tempting ticket. Herman and Newt complement each other very well; likability, principles, leadership and communication skills vs. brainpower and knowing how the political system works. I would also love to see Newt stipulate early on that he is just in it for one term. An heir to Herman Cain could run on the ticket in 2016 (such as DeMint, Bachmann, Pence, Rubio, West) and then at the top of the ticket in 2020.

Jewell Nancy
Guest
Jewell Nancy

I love it . It FAR better that the mess of a tax code that NOBODY understands . and the best part is everybody will pay not just the 53% who currently pay for everyone else. replacing the current tax code with something as simple has this great all the hidden tax we all pay in everything we but from the services and good and food will be gone .

Jaynie59
Member
Jaynie59

Cain’s plan puts the 9% tax on all new goods including food. Hey, there’s a new market that could spring up: used food.

Bobn
Member
Bobn

The two main reasons why food is not excluded:

1. If it were, the rate on everything else would just have to be increased.
2. If food were exempted, it would open the door to other exemptions (and lobbyists to secure these exemptions) and we’re back on the road to a 70,000 page tax code.

Food prices would actually decrease because the imbedded taxes from the 35% corporate tax as well as the payroll tax would no longer be included in the prices of food. I do, however, agree that used food would be bad.

Jaynie59
Member
Jaynie59

Any new federal tax is bad. Never, ever give the federal government a new source of revenue.

Liberals have wanted a federal consumption tax for generations. Cain is listening to the wrong advisers and he does not have the conservative backbone to realize it. He’s doubling down on stupid and that means he cannot be trusted in any subject.

Bobn
Member
Bobn

You’ve got to be kidding me. How many of the FairTax supporters are Democrats? I’ve never seen a more Conservative organization.

You need to wake up and smell the coffee. Ron Paul is done. Put a fork in him. His foreign policy makes him an unelectable moon-bat. In a recent debate, even he said that a consumption tax would be good.

Jaynie59
Member
Jaynie59

What the HELL does that anti-American, anti-Semite Ron Paul have to do with anything?

Bobn
Member
Bobn

Based on your entire lack of manners, I assumed that you were a Paultard. Forgive me if I was incorrect.

Jaynie59
Member
Jaynie59

Lack of manners? Trust me, I’m being as polite as I can muster. It is absolutely maddening to see so many people be so clueless to human nature.

Bobn
Member
Bobn

Honestly, this current and your recent posts have been much better mannered. Congratulations.

Boris Badenov
Member
Boris Badenov

From what I see you little rants here are a good example of that very human nature which you are referring to…

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

Wrong, liberals have discussed a VAT for years in additionan to the income tax code. That VAT would be applied as it is in Europe at every stinkiing stage of production which ahs made all theri economies stagnet.

This is a replacement and scrapping of the old income tax code. If you’d rather comply with that then you are truly lost…meaning you’re a liberal troll.

MS
Guest
MS

“Any new federal tax is bad. Never, ever give the federal government a new source of revenue.” It is a new source of revenue, not an additional one. Also, Jaynie59, the government adds taxes on a whim and changes tax policy constantly via income taxes, fees, tarifs, etc. so how would a simple plan make it easier for government to screw the citizens over? It wouldn’t. It would be much more difficult as 9% is 9%. If that number moved at all it would be clear that there is government changing involved. However, when the IRS tax code grows by 1,000 pages there is not 1 person in 1,000,000 that even knows something happened that raises the cost everyone. Having sat in a room with a CPA on one side and a real estate lawyer on the other both discussing tax implications of a deal that both understood top to… Read more »

Boris Badenov
Member
Boris Badenov

Simplicity is a beautiful thing…

MontyRay
Member
MontyRay

Jaynie, I share your distrust over a new tax. Go to Cain’s site. read the plan over. Think about it in comparison to what we have today. I sympathize with your view. It was my view only a few days ago. I have been looking at this from all angles. Here are a few that come to mind. Possible growth and hiring real calculated tax burden for all earners at every level compared to now elimination of loopholes and favors that, while intended to boost commerce, have turned to corrupt palm greasing Keeping more of what I earn elimination of cost to corporations who employ many of us The possibility of bringing industry back to our shore through a lower corporate tax and simplified code To me, we already get taxed six ways from Sunday. The Laffer curve actually addresses that phenomenon and puts numbers to where growth begins and… Read more »

Jaynie59
Member
Jaynie59

There’s another aspect to this I haven’t mentioned because I figured people who want a national sales tax won’t care about principle. Social Security and Medicare payroll deductions open up a whole different argument that is based on the principle of “entitlements”. Yes, we all know there is no Social Security Trust Fund. There’s no Medicare Trust Fund. But that is OUR money that we’re getting back when we collect on those programs. Which reminds me. What happened to Herman Cain’s Social Security “fix” that used the Chilean model? Oh, right. He heard about the 999 plan and so now Social Security is what? An official welfare program? I guess it will be under Cain. I don’t want to hear how it’s better and more honest to call Social Security a welfare program. I resent them being called “entitlements” now. That’s MY money. I paid for it. Unless you understand… Read more »

Boris Badenov
Member
Boris Badenov

Social Security is not a welfare program, it is a PONZI scheme plain and simple.. and the fed gov has stolen every red cent you ever put in…

Dave Kawasaki
Guest
Dave Kawasaki

Why not? It’s what Perry’s selling, and it looks like you’re buying.

Boris Badenov
Member
Boris Badenov

The reality is you have no idea how much tax you pay as it is, tell me how much hidden tax , double and triple tax do you pay now?
Tell me how much tax you pay when you buy a new car now, I mean all the out of sight embedded taxes as well…

Don’t pretend like you know..

You could not sit down and explain the current tax code any more than you could fly to the moon in a Bi-plane.

Some are simply looking for an excuse.
And William I do hate to bring your name up as we have had our differences but, (funny you should pop into this thread, imagine that).., after all the benefits that MS brought up yet if it cost you as you believe $160 a month then screw the rest of America…humm..

Jaynie59
Member
Jaynie59

Yeah, and Mitch Daniels also brags about being a Reaganite and he’s all for a VAT tax. Wake up people. The 999 plan is a disaster. An absolute disaster. If nothing else, it proves that Herman Cain doesn’t have the first clue what he’s talking about, which is no surprise, but it also negates his claim to surround himself with good advisers. Cain cannot be trusted to do the right thing or listen to people who know what the right thing is. A 9% sales tax is a terrible idea. Telling people to buy used goods in defense of it is an even worse idea. This country really is doomed. There’s no hope. None. I give up. Cain’s best line is that stupid people are running the country. If he sticks with this stupid plan he’ll just be one more of those stupid people.

Jewell Nancy
Guest
Jewell Nancy

how many NEW houses do you buy just asking and the 9% is not a VAT tax

Jaynie59
Member
Jaynie59

Is English your first language?

Cecil Hill
Guest
Cecil Hill

I think I will stick with Cain and forget people who THINK they know all about economics on a forum such as this. Thank you very much. My first language is English, BTW and my second is Chinese. Also picked up Thai along the way. Want to quibble?

Jaynie59
Member
Jaynie59

So what do you think Jewell Nancy’s first language is? Is she/he just a lazy internet typist or doesn’t know English all that well? Being an expert on languages such as you are.

steprock
Member
steprock

Jaynie, get over yourself. You’re making personal attacks now, and that’s not tolerated on this site.

I come here because of the intelligent discussions, not for trollish drive-by attacks. You are capable of doing better than this. I urge you not to give in to more knee-jerk and juvenile tendencies.

Jaynie59
Member
Jaynie59

Shut up.

Bobn
Member
Bobn

That was a step backward. I have to get some work done. Bye.

steprock
Member
steprock

Wow. Nice. It’s amazing you’re still even welcome on this site.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

And you being an expert in economics versus Herman Cain who just so happens to have a degree in mathematics from Morehouse College and a masters degree in computer science from Purdue University (Do I also need to list his corporate experience and successes at turning flailing companies into thriving business???)… and I am suppose to take the advice of someone whining about only wanting to buy brand new items? Jaynie59, maybe if you use the word VINTAGE instead of used your POSH attitude would not be so offended. You snub your humble beginnings instead of being grateful for this land of opportunity. Be very careful Jaynie59, you know what they say about attitudes like yours: “Pride goeth before the fall!”

Jaynie59
Member
Jaynie59

Herman Cain may be a math wiz but he’s a terrible politician. He’s not looking at the big picture. His equation does not take human nature into account. That’s his fatal flaw.

Esbc Cavecity
Guest
Esbc Cavecity

What is your opinion, Jayne 59, of Obama’s economic policies. Why are you attacking Hermain Cain instead of the train wreck which is Barak Obama?

KenInMontana
Editor
KenInMontana

I would point out that neither of those degrees is in Economics. I like Herman Cain, I just don’t like 9/9/9 or the Fair Tax that 9/9/9 is designed as a stepping stone towards.

Dave Kawasaki
Guest
Dave Kawasaki

Your posts are rife with grammatical errors.
IOW, WTF are you to question another’s proficiency? Correct your own first.

Cindy08
Member
Cindy08

Chinese is not a language. Mandarin and Cantonese are.

Jaynie59
Member
Jaynie59

Good point.

steprock
Member
steprock

Telling we, who pay attention and have these discussions, to “wake up” is an insult and assumes that you are the only smart person in the room.

Insulting Cain’s intelligence is also a poor argument. He’s a mathematician and worked for the Navy programming missiles. An honest-to-goodness rocket scientist.

In short, stick to arguing the facts and stop with the name-calling of us and the candidates.

Jaynie59
Member
Jaynie59

You’re right. Ignorance is curable. Stupid isn’t.

Josh
Member
Josh

“Telling people to buy used goods in defense of it is an even worse idea.” So, what do you think when you see a bum come straight out of the welfare office, check in hand, and get into a brand new 2011 Suburban? I have SEEN IT HAPPEN. Stop telling me how insulting this is or how terrible Cain is for saying it. We finally have someone in power that rose from literally NOTHING and you want to bash him because he is giving the best advice to the poor ever. Who pays for that vehicle in 2 months when the guy loses it to repossession? YOU DO! You pay for it in higher interest rates, in higher prices. Wake UP! The country could do a lot worse than someone saying “If you want a car and you don’t have the money, buy used and skip the taxes (instead of… Read more »

Adam
Guest
Adam

I’m torn on 9-9-9. It’s hard to know how much it really would grow the economy. One would assume that lowering the corporate tax rate to 9% while eliminating loopholes would provide a huge boost(except for GE of course). Same for many individual taxpayers who would see their personal rates drop to 9%. But it’s that 9% sales tax that’s gonna scare a lot of folks.

Frank C Driver
Guest
Frank C Driver

The Federal Government currently does not receive revenue from the products that GE makes under this 999 plan, the GE products sold here would provide a 9% revenue to the Government. If the Federal Government gets revenues from imports at the same rate it gets revenues from our products it’s not a tariff. When we tax income to make products it becomes part of our product cost. The 999 plan would be taxing the GNP of Mexico,Canada,Japan,China, at a much higher rate than we receive from taxing income on producing products here. To Compare it to the gasoline tax which the Government brings in 27 times the Corporate profit, would mean that the 9% sales tax would end up being reduced because it would bring in more revenue than expected.

Jaynie59
Member
Jaynie59

How would apply that to a good such as alcohol or cigarettes? Two items that are already taxed to the hilt with what we call the “sin tax” and, as far as I know are all state and local taxes. Those taxes will not go away. None of the state sales taxes will go away. Cain’s 9% national sales tax will be added onto it.

Casey Kelley
Guest
Casey Kelley

True, any state or local taxes will not go away; however, keep this in mind:

Per Cain’s staff economist, Rich Lowrie: 9% sales tax won’t raise prices. It’s a REPLACEMENT tax, not an add-on tax. It replaces taxes already embedded in prices. Marginal costs go down.

Remember that with corporate tax at a flat 9% and hidden taxes removed, the prices of goods will go down ↓ Corporations inflate the cost of their goods to pay their corporate taxes.

*Hidden Taxes: How Much do You Really Pay?:

http://www.ipi.org/IPI/IPIPublications.nsf/PublicationLookupFullText/A9A7AA39F78128BB86256AB700627702

*This article is a few years old, these rates have increased by now I am sure.

Rshill7
Member
Rshill7

The folks it will scare the most are CPA’s and tax attorneys.

Adam
Guest
Adam

Heh, that’s true. Do accountants have a lobby yet in DC? If not, they’ll have one very soon if Cain is the GOP nominee.

Hmm, that begs the question. Would Michele Bachmann support Herman Cain considering she’s a tax attorney?

Rshill7
Member
Rshill7

I heard her this morning say that she didn’t like the 999 plan. As a business owner, I don’t really want to be an arm of the government in collecting these taxes. I sell most of my products over the internet to out of state buyers. I do not collect tax for the government at this time and have no desire to.

I don’t like the fair tax either, but some form of flat tax and the scrapping of the current code is a good thing. GE actually got a multi-billion dollar refund. That is ridiculous. I’m tired of the government trying to control everything including who wins and who loses. We really need to disentangle government from so many aspects of our lives. Government needs a b-slapping upside it’s hydra head!

steprock
Member
steprock

Hydra head…hehe. That’s about the most appropriate description I’ve seen.

I’ll tell you what, Rshill7, in addition to the government trying to control everything, the GOP is trying to control this election and shove Romney out there as the guy we’re told we like. Not so, with Mr. Cain.

I’m thinking that his [Cain’s] negatives are outweighed by his positives. That’s not an overwhelming endorsement for him as a candidate, I know, but there’s no Reagan in the mix.

[edited for clarity, per Rshill7]

Bobn
Member
Bobn

There will never be another Ronald Reagan in the mix but maybe there is one that we will look back at in 20 or 30 years and reminisce about how great they were. They do come along once in a while – usually when we need them most, like after Carter or after Obama. It sure feels like we’re due.

Rshill7
Member
Rshill7

Maybe I should’ve said hydra head(s) smile

I can’t decide if you are for Cain or Romney here with this post.
Can you clarify? The last line in the first paragraph versus the first line in the second are unclear.

steprock
Member
steprock

OMIGOSH!!!! NOT ROMNEY!

And I would have thought you’d have seen other posts by me wink

Romney is being pushed as “the guy” and I don’t like that. It assumes that it’s already decided and our votes in the primaries mean nothing. Romney gives empty answers and is a plastic politician.

I’m not enthusiastically for Cain as President. As a talk show pundit, I have had a political man-crush on him for years. “The Dean of the University of Common Sense” he used to say.

Rshill7
Member
Rshill7

Well, I knew I had a generally positive regard for your posts but had to take this post at face value. Good. I don’t like the attempt to be rolled by a group with few things to be legitimately proud of in recent years, i.e., republicans.

Now that I’ve wiped the egg off my face, I’m thinking about sticking several slices of bacon where the egg was.

If I could apply some lettuce and tomato to it, I could walk up to Romney and tell him to bite me, BLT style smile

Talk about a man crush…ouch.

clem
Guest
clem

Do you believe that the hypothetical individual earning say $50,000 with $15,000 in annual medical expenses should pay a flat tax on $50,000. That would be the case under the 999 plan. For the record, I am a physician, and treat a # of people in similar circumstances. These folks would be forced into bankruptcy under Cain’s plan.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

The accounting profession allegedly has the AICPA doing lobbying for it. But the AICPA pretty much represents the big 4.

Bobn
Member
Bobn

Most CPA’s are huge fans of the FairTax. They know the tax code, which is to say that they know how stupid it is. When the economy booms, CPA’s will have plenty of real work to do – rather than help people game the stupid tax code.

You might be right about lawyers, especially tax and estate planning attorneys. Their livelihood is almost entirely dependent on gaming the convoluted tax code that other lawyers made a fortune creating. They will fight it to the end.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

As a CPA in the tax field, let me throw in my 2 cents worth here. I’ll try to be as objective as possible. A change of this nature doesn’t scare me. Sure it will change things. I’d likely being doing different things in different environment. But I don’t see it eliminating the need for tax accountants or CPA’s. I’ve only seen Mr Cain’s 999 plan superficially. So, I don’t want to say its a good idea or not. At least not yet. I don’t know how fully developed it is, or not. I’m staunchly against what known as the “fair tax”. It sounds good in the 5 sec sound byte. But the devil is in the details. Accordingly, I see that cure being worse than the problem it tries to solve. One thing I do support is an idea put together by some CPA’s in the NYSSCPA several years… Read more »

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

You’re right, they’re not to bright so we can do them a favor, terminate theri employment and we can all reap the rewards. Speaking honestly, I really don’t give a rat’s ass what an accountant thinks about the Fair Tax. I know for a fact it’s far simpler to abide by then any existent tax code which needs to go and fast. The country is suffering and most of it’s because of Congressional lawyers that use the 70k pages of the IRS code to pad their pockets. The purpose for the Fair Tax plan is to make the country great once again and you cannot tell me that keeping the existent code will do that.

The income tax is immoral and should be scrapped for that reason alone. Progressive/socialist enjoy anything that is in opposition to God’s Law and purpose.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

Not necessarily so, most accountants really despise the existant tax code as it wastes their time and talent. Be certain that tax attorneys will chase ambulances once again or find other ways to produce wealth.

Rshill7
Member
Rshill7

I’d be OK with that. However, perhaps you’ve heard the old description of the difference between general practitioners versus specialists (which are what these tax folks are).

“G.P’s learn less and less about more and more until they know nothing about everything, and specialists learn more and more about less and less until they everything about nothing.”

Some of them would be woefully inadequate at anything else. They’d have to “cross-train”. I believe Nike has some special sneakers for that smile

“Just do it.”

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

“But it’s that 9% sales tax that’s gonna scare a lot of folks.” As long as people are informed properly about the sales tax applying ONLY to brand new goods and not used items. While to some it may not seem like a difference, it will benefit far more lower income people than it would hurt. I know for me and my family it would make a difference as we only buy used cars, my wife buys used clothing for my stepson as he grows like a weed and you cannot keep up. We also buy used college books for our classes, people buying houses that are not brand new wouldn’t be impacted; used appliances (the last washer and dryer I bought was a used pair for $250 total and I used them for nearly 10 years); my stepson buys used music CDs and video games; tons of people buy… Read more »

Jaynie59
Member
Jaynie59

I grew up as one of six kids in a lower middle class family. My father was a mailman and my mother was a key punch operator. I’m 52 years old and I remember when we got our first phone. My parents didn’t buy our first house until I was in 6th grade. It was an old house but it was ours. I remember our first brand new car. It was a 1974 Chevy Vega. We got new clothes once a year when school started. All our play clothes were hand-me-downs. I’ve worked hard my entire life to afford nice things. I resent Herman Cain telling me to buy used stuff. It’s an insult. Any amount of a federal sales tax is a terrible idea. But to defend it by telling me to buy used? Stupid beyond belief. The rich Republican tells the masses to eat cake. Ronald Reagan is… Read more »

Timothy A.
Guest
Timothy A.

Oh, Good Grief!! Nobody is telling you to buy anything, except maybe Obama with ObamaCare. If you don’t want to buy used, then don’t!!

Good God, can’t you see the benefits of all this? You can finally control your tax bills. No sale? No Tax! Buy new! Pay tax! Buy used? No Tax! You are in control, not them! Look, Spend $100 on something and pay $117 or so with state tax. However, with corporate rates down and better business climate you might be able to get the same thing after this for far less than the $100 before. Can’t you see that? I’m no rocket scientist or MBA grad, but I can see it!

Jaynie59
Member
Jaynie59

The sad thing is that you have no idea why what you posted here is so horrific.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

Let’s try it another way: If you buy something today for $100 you pay 7% state sales tax making the total price $107. If compliance of the current code is not required that rice would come down to $75 plus state sales tax of $5.25 plus 9%($6.75) so what do you have to pay? $82. total. Now you have $25 savings. Now you can either put that money into something else or your pocket for a later time or perhaps an investment. Go further to immagine that the foreign buyer doesn’t have to pay that 9% and the old fee wrapped up in the compliance of the current code and you have a much more willing buyer of American goods and they’re much more likely to buy more of it more often. Factories must be expanded to keep up with the new demand for goods. Alas, a stronger demand for… Read more »

edenjac
Guest
edenjac

Jaynie, I have not heard when Mr. Cain said you’re only allowed to buy used stuff.
You have a choice to go get either new or used depending on your necessity, you can decide if for example you want a hammer, to get it new with 9% sales tax or used with no tax. Since the price of a new hammer will go down because production cost will go down I expect I will be paying for a new hammer the same price or even lower than today for brand new. I think the plan will help people save some money for those new items they really want.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZ_PGX7N57E

Cain Will Tax Poor People’s Food

Cain’s 999 plan is phase 1 of the fair tax plan. Under the Fair Tax plan, he will tax all goods and services.

From the Fair tax blog.

As you know, both owner-occupied and renter-occupied housing is taxable under the FairTax. With owner-occupied housing (new), the tax is collected up front at time of sale. With renter-occupied housing (new or used) the monthly rent is taxed as it is collected by the landlord.

MS
Guest
MS

Williamm: If this is, as you claim, a way to bring in the FairTax (and it is to an extent) then even more people will benefit. If you knew anything about the FairTax then you would know that every person in the USA would get a prebate in an amount that would offset the amount of taxes that you would pay on the first $45,000 of income for a family of 4. This means that, much like today, a family of 4 earning $45,000 or less would be in the ZERO PERCENT tax bracket. “Cain Will Tax Poor People’s Food” – We already addressed this – the slight increase in food costs would be offset by the taxes that you would not pay when you buy used goods. In my longer post above I did screw up – I said that dividend income would be 9%. I believe that it… Read more »

steprock
Member
steprock

I won’t say I know the plan as well as you seem to, but I do see that simpler means more transparent. Fairer means a broader tax base. A broader tax base means more revenue.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

Under the Fair Tax plan, there is a 23% consumer tax on all goods and services. The 208.00 dollar prebate will only cover 904.35 dollars of monthly expenditures. Since under the present system, for a single person there is no income tax for incomes of 25,000 and 32,000 for a couple. We earned that right by being forced to participate in that system for close to half a century, 52 years in my case. As I explained previously, my monthly expenses come to 1600.00 which would be a tax of 368.00 per month. After the prebate I would still owe 160.00 dollars per month under the snake oil salesman’s plan. That is 160.00 compared to zero under the present plan. As to what the issue is with 95% benefiting at the expense of 5%, your figures are way off. It’s much higher than 5% of the people being thrown under… Read more »

MS
Guest
MS

The FairTax varies between 17 to 23% depending on the iteration you read and whos “FairTax” plan you read about. However, the FairTax does not tax businesses at all, but at the point of purchase of final goods. Since part of the cost of doing business will no longer include layers of hidden taxes prices will come down from competition. Consider this too – there will be no need for corporations to keep money offshore in order to avoid high taxation (up to 39% Fed rate) if the rate dropped to 9%. Think about the trillions of dollars that would flow back to the USA over the years rather than getting stuck out of country. Also, with embedded taxes gone at the corporate level we will be more competative with our products when we export them to other countries. As costs come down and our ability to compete better more… Read more »

KenInMontana
Editor
KenInMontana

And the money for the prebate will come from where?????????

MS
Guest
MS

Tax revenues. Just like today people get more money back than they paid in.

KenInMontana
Editor
KenInMontana

Gee, that sounds like REDISTRIBUTION of wealth to me.
Addendum: I give you full marks for honesty on that, so far you’re the only one I have asked that question of that has answered it honestly. That said I am still opposed to the Fair Tax and still support a single flat tax.

Art Telles
Guest
Art Telles

Too easy…

Ken, MS told you, huh… heh heh.

Didn’t you know already that in a marxist “progressive income tax” system you get more money back than you paid in?

KenInMontana
Editor
KenInMontana

That was kind of the point of my question, to point out that when it comes down to brass tacks the “Fair Tax” is just another redistributive shell game, which is why I am a Flat Tax supporter. I will give MS credit for being at least honest about it, everyone else I have asked, including the Fair tax site has dodged it or hedged around it. The first time I read about the Fair Tax, I realized it was nothing more than a shell game.

Jaynie59
Member
Jaynie59

Yeah! Let’s all rally behind a Republican who wants to tax EVERYTHING!!!

Hey williamm? I don’t remember if I’ve ever insulted you on this blog but if I did I apologize from the bottom of my heart.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

We have disagreed on issues, but it’s always been a civil conversation.

MS
Guest
MS

“Yeah! Let’s all rally behind a Republican who wants to tax EVERYTHING!!!”

Thank you for demonstrating that you have no clue about 999 or the FairTax.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

You don’t pay taxes on food stamps. I see it everyday – plus they sale food stamps to others and say right in front of me — see you don’t have to pay taxes, at least I saved you that much so you owe me…

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

I’ve had people I don’t even know walk up to me in grocery stores wanting to sell their food stamps for as little as 50 cents on the dollar. They go around the store asking people until they find someone to take them up on the deal. They used to sell the actual food stamps until they went to the card. Now
they take your shopping cart through checkout, then outside they give you the cart in exchange for cash.

I always notify the store manager of their offer.

One family I know has 3 children, actually her daughters children, receives over 900 dollars in food stamps, over 600 dollars in welfare. She was furious when her rent skyrocketed from 11 dollars per month to 13 dollars per month. She complained the government does nothing for her.

Jaynie59
Member
Jaynie59

Gee, thanks.

Unbelievable.

clem
Guest
clem

For individuals, Cain’s plan has a break even point at a salary around $100K, everyone earning below that, will pay more, with the lowest earners getting hit the hardest. Everyone earning in excess of $100K will pay less tax, with the highest earners (most investment income) benefiting the most….it is basically the Reverse Robin Hood Tax Plan. Also, a large proportion small businesses would be crippled, since almost all deductions would be disallowed (which can be a substantial % of income. particularly for several years after for start-up), yet the business would be taxed on what would in essence, be gross income, since salaries are not even deductible under the plan.

The 999 plan would an unmitigated disaster.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

If it helps Cain….good. Anything to be rid of the misery that invaded the WH and the demoncrat party at large.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

An issue too serious to be so passive on.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

There isn’t a passive bone in my body concerning this next election. Dear Gringico…I will vote for a can of tuna if that’s what runs against the marxists, America hating, criminal that now occupies the WH.
Nothing passive about anything I have to say on the subject of the next elections…we are so far gone and so far sunk that 4 more years of BO will put a literal end to America.
I’ll take 999 or 777 or 2121….just get that rotten man O U T of the WH! smile

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

I must admit you make an undeniable point of importance in your comment. Peace, gringico44

Subject: [trscoop] Re: Art Laffer endorses Herman Cain’s 999 plan

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

Yes indeed, peace! Thanks for seeing my point. smile

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

acan of tuna?! if you mean hilary? FORGET IT! i like Cain.

conservative
Guest
conservative

I like Art, and I think he’s a smart fellow. But I staunchly disagree–and remember, economic adviser does not mean he wrote Reagan’s economic policy.

Jim Land
Guest
Jim Land

He also laughed in Peter Schiffs face about Schiffs meltdown prediction. He still won’t pay their penny bet either.

conservative
Guest
conservative

Look, the fact is that I like the idea of a flatter tax. It makes the most sense. But I live in a state where the sales tax is already high, and if we’re doubling it basically, I think it’s going to be a very, very bad idea. Plus it is a new source of revenue.

People forget that the income tax was proposed as being as high as something like 5%. Today it’s nearly forty.

Josh
Member
Josh

Not new. Replacement.

What you are saying is like this:
I buy a new car and trade in my old one. Now I have to pay for two oil changes and two sets of tires and two insurance premiums…. NO. One car replaces the other.

The reason that the tax is so high? Rates by congressional committee, not 2/3 vote.

conservative
Guest
conservative

It’s irrelevant. The point is the sales tax is a new source of revenue. It can become 100%-100%-100% if they want to.

Terrible, terrible idea.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

I assume you do not understand or have studied the Laffer Curve. That is really terrible for you.

Josh
Member
Josh

And they can’t do that now because…

Brad Gray
Guest
Brad Gray

I’m amazed people say “it’s a new source of revenue”. Do you not realize they already have the source. So, you don’t like it could be raised in the future… as if our current system can’t be!

Bentley
Guest
Bentley

They could raise our current taxes to a hundered percent if they wanted to. Think about this as well. Yes you will be paying sales tax. But you will get to keep more of your pay check as well. This allows you to choose when you pay or don’t pay. You could take all your savings from the income and payroll taxes and put it in the bank till you die and never pay a dime on it.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

What you’re missing is that all prices reflect the compliance of the existnat tax code which costs are in the billions. If those costs are eliminated, the prices of those items comes down. The accountants that are on the payroll of eveery large manufacturing firm no longer have to waste the energy to comply with that code. Same thing goes for the Fair Tax plan. The elimination of the current code cost billion and it will free up capital for use in other venues for the company such as new equip purchases which puts people back to work. It also allows our country’s exports to be lower in price gaining more competitiveness. Foreign buyers do not have to pay this consumption tax so the price is the price which would be 25% lower than were their at today. Manufacturing would come back to the country, full employment returns.

Patricia Roach
Guest
Patricia Roach

The 999 plan will replace all those taxes,when the current tax code is repealed.
Congress will repeal the 16 adment, it will be a flat taxs will lead in to the FAIR TAX

Hugh Williams
Guest
Hugh Williams

999 is terrible, period. Laffer is a laugher in my opinion.

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