UPDATE 2: Levin: Rubio is NOT a “slick used car salesman” – Mark Levin grills Marco Rubio on immigration proposal

UPDATE 2: From Mark Levin just now:

While I oppose the immigration bill, given the border-security issue and Obama’s record of non-enforcement, among other things, I regret linking to a post that refers to Senator Rubio as a slick used car salesman. He is earnest and thoughtful and deserves much better. He loves his country and means well, unlike too many politicians. There are slick used car salesmen on Capitol Hill, many come to mind, but Rubio is certainly not one of them.

Also, while I’m on the subject, there are bloggers, columnists, and radio hosts who will personally trash Rubio because they think that shows how tough they are on illegal immigration or how conservative they are. Actually, they are pretenders. Most of them have done nothing on this issue or for the conservative movement. Landmark Legal Foundation has been involved in every recent, major piece of litigation against the Obama administration involving illegal immigration, including assisting Arizona in its defense of its law and borders. We went all the way to the Supreme Court. I don’t recall any of these “tough” guys and gals behind their computers and microphones lifting a finger. None of them. Talk is cheap, and many of them are frauds.

UPDATE: Mark Levin tweeted this out this morning:



The link goes to a site that describes Rubio’s interview with The Great One like this:

Rubio talked fast, like a slick used car salesman, but sounded nervous at times, and also didn’t make sense at times (such as when he talked about how Americans wages are being depressed — blatantly ignoring how his amnesty scheme would flood the labor market and drive down Americans wages even more). But Rubio obviously has pro-amnesty talking points down pat about E-Verify (but neglected to mention the long phase in period for this) and other things. And of course, Rubio neglected to mention the big loopholes in his amnesty bill.

I hope this clears up any ambiguity for some of you who confuse Levin’s objective demeanor during the interview as support for Rubio’s plan. In the interview Levin only had a few minutes to ask questions and if he spent the time ‘ripping’ Rubio, he wouldn’t have been able to elicit the same answers that many of you are using to challenge Rubio.

Mark Levin had Marco Rubio on his show tonight to discuss the immigration bill and, among other things, explain why we should trust this president and his administration to carry it out once it’s passed. But there were many other questions that ranged from the size of the bill and the legislative process to the legalization process and what all that entails.

Listen below:

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ReaganConservative
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ReaganConservative

mike3e4r7 he also misjudged his friend Orrin Hatch. He voted for the amnesty bill as well.

ReaganConservative
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ReaganConservative

BS61 they have some kind of infatuation with Rubio and are denial he can do anything wrong or unconservative like amnesty. They just can’t accept it. Hannity’s even worse. He’s REALLY got a thrill up his leg for Rubio. Like Hannity’s recording of Chris Matthews love for Obama combined with the “endless love” song, someone needs to make that about Hannity for Rubio with that same song and all of Hannity love quotes for Rubio. That would be funny.

BS61
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BS61

I had a crush on articulate economist Paul Ryan for awhile too, until I couldn’t get past his 26 year budget plan!

BS61
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BS61

Are Rush and Levin getting a thrill up their leg?  I love listening to Levin, but what happens when they interview Rubio ?!  I can understand being respectful, but can’t they pull a Diane Sawyer and say, the Tea Party are protesting your bill?

Suzyqpie
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Suzyqpie

The people that we elected to represent us allowed Mexico, et al, to export their poorest, least educated, most disgruntled constituency to the USA. Citizenship test at the welfare office would be a start if the bureaucrats gave a damn which they don’t. Math is coming.

57thunderbird
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57thunderbird

I love Mark,but why does he continue to defend Rubio?I am a bit disappointed with you Mark.:-(

Tabcola
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Tabcola

Live in Florida. He is a RINO like the rest..  Here’s his record: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/marco_rubio/412491

GetWhatYouPayFor
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GetWhatYouPayFor

Sorry Mark, I still love you. Maybe Rubio just hasn’t perfected his craft yet. I don’t trust him anymore than the two guys who won, and lost the last election for President.

mike3e4r7
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mike3e4r7

Rubio is either incredibly naive, or a slick used car salesman.  Either way, he is not presidential material.  Another poster said yesterday (sorry, I can’t recall who) that Levin can be loyal to a fault.  I think he’s having a hard time admitting to himself that he mis-judged Rubio.  At least he’s acknowledging that Rubio is wrong on this issue.

Suzyqpie
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Suzyqpie

DailyCaller had a bite that Rubio’s bill includes $50M in funds to assist the immigrant criminals in navigating the bureaucracy that the bureaucrats created in the name of helping. OK, ok I’ll translate, money to lawyer camarillo that will/can flow back to The. Gang. Of. Ate (the money).

Lives4Freedom
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Lives4Freedom

I know immigration is a complex issue, but I’m just going to blurt out a couple brainstorm ideas: If you do not have record of crossing into our country legally, you have two options… One, a short jail term, followed by deportation, in which you will receive the information you need to properly get in line for immigration process. Two, you can stay, if you will have us employ you to build the fence. That’s it, those are your choices. If you break the law during your stay, you will serve time commensurate with the crime, under Sheriff Joe Arpaio’s care, after which, you will be deported and indefinitely disallowed application for citizenship (perhaps felony cases only). It’s complicated when you talk about the crafty illegals, who suckered natural citizens into making their babies….I know a couple, I don’t know what to do with them. I don’t recall the issue… Read more »

OneThinDime
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OneThinDime

Lives4Freedom I appreciate your suggestions.  I have to wonder why we would ever want to reward law breakers.  If they violate the sanctity of our borders, they have a total disregard for our laws.

Suzyqpie
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Suzyqpie

Selective enforcement of the law is an abdication of the rule of law. The Rule of Law is now subjective.

OneThinDime
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OneThinDime

Suzyqpie And it opens the door for us to sue that Obama and Holder are enforcing laws in an arbitrary and capricious manner. Remember, this was raised during the gay crap at the SCOTUS

cabensg
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cabensg

Rubio is anything we want to call him including traitor to his fellow Americans.

American Duckie
Member
American Duckie

Page 70  WTH!?!  ALIENS APPREHENDED BEFORE OR DUR ING THE APPLICATION PERIOD .—If an alien who is  apprehended during the period beginning on the date of the enactment of the Border Security, Economic Opportunity, and Immigration Modernization 23  Act and the end of the application period described 24 in paragraph (3) appears prima facie eligible for 25   71 EAS13500 S.L.C. registered provisional immigrant status, to the satis- 1 faction of the Secretary, the Secretary— 2 ‘‘(A) shall provide the alien with a reason- 3 able opportunity to file an application under 4 this section during such application period; and 5 ‘‘(B) may not remove the individual until 6 a final administrative determination is made on 7 the application So in other words, if an illegal is caught coming over the border during the time that this bill is enacted, they are still eligible to apply for immigrant status, ie,… Read more »

colliemum
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colliemum

“He loves his country and means well […]” says the Great One.
I’m sure he does, but ‘he means well’ is usually a description for dunderheads who are in way above their heads, or who are clumsily doing damage to something – like trying to do the washing up and smashing a few plates in the process. 
It’s not something which evokes trust, especially not in a politician.
Give me Ted Cruz any day!
Thank you Texas, for electing him. The mind boggles to think what well-meaning damage his opponent would have done in the Senate by now …

cabensg
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cabensg

colliemum  Prove it Levin. Prove to me he loves his country and means well. Actually Rubio has proved just the opposite as far as I’m concerned. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

tencole
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tencole

“I hope this clears up any ambiguity for some of you who confuse Levin’s
objective demeanor during the interview as support for Rubio’s plan. In
the interview Levin only had a few minutes to ask questions and if he
spent the time ‘ripping’ Rubio, <b>he wouldn’t have been able to elicit the
same answers that many of you are using to challenge Rubio.</b>
 “That many of you are using”…..really RS!?!……I know you are a big supporter of Mr Rooobio but  please, at least try to be a little objective.

American Duckie
Member
American Duckie

OK so now I’m into the meat of it, page 61,  IN GENERAL .—An alien is not eligible for registered provisional immigrant status unless the  alien establishes, by a preponderance of the evidence,  that the alien meets the requirements set forth in 10 this subsection. 11 ‘‘(2) P HYSICAL PRESENCE .— 12 ‘‘(A) I N GENERAL .—The alien— 13 ‘‘(i) shall be physically present in the 14 United States on the date on which the 15 alien submits an application for registered 16 provisional immigrant status; 17 ‘‘(ii) shall have been physically  18 present in the United States on or before 19 December 31, 2011; and 20 ‘‘(iii) shall have maintained contin- 21  uous physical presence in the United 22 States from December 31, 2011, until the 23 date on which the alien is granted status 24   61 EAS13500 S.L.C. as a registered provisional immigrant 1  under this section. 2… Read more »

American Duckie
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American Duckie

http://www.uscis.gov/policymanual/HTML/PolicyManual-Volume12-PartD-Chapter4.html  , A. Physical Presence Requirement An applicant for naturalization is generally required to have been physically present in the United States for at least half the time for which his or her continuous residence is required. Applicants for naturalization under http://www.uscis.gov/ilink/docView/SLB/HTML/SLB/0-0-0-1/0-0-0-29/0-0-0-9898.html#0-0-0-405 are required to demonstrate physical presence in the United States for at least 30 months (at least 913 days) before filing the application. Physical presence refers to the number of days the applicant must physically be present in the United States during the statutory period up to the date of filing for naturalization. The continuous residence and physical presence requirements are interrelated but each must be satisfied for naturalization. USCIS will count the day that an applicant departs from the United States and the day he or she returns as days of physical presence within the United States for naturalization purposes. B. Documentation and Evidence Mere possession of… Read more »

publius69
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publius69

AmericanborninCanada let me help you with your app.  how can i contact you directly.

American Duckie
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American Duckie

publius69 AmericanborninCanada you can e mail me at [email protected]  let me know it’s you please. That’s the Constitutional Freedom Party e mail, so I get  alot of different e mails , but it’s an account that only I have access too.  Thank you publius!

publius69
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publius69

AmericanborninCanada publius69  email sent to you.  keep an eye out for it.  my email was returned…”delvery status notification (failure”)

American Duckie
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American Duckie

publius69 AmericanborninCanada I’m logging on there now. just a minute  smile

American Duckie
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American Duckie

publius69 sad I don’t know what happened, but I didn’t get it. Can you try once more?  I’ve had the same problem a couple of times lately sending to some folks who I contact regularly.  Don’t know whats up with that.  But can you try again?  thank you!

publius69
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publius69

AmericanborninCanada publius69 sure   lemme try again

American Duckie
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American Duckie

publius69 AmericanborninCanada OK smile

publius69
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publius69

sorry  but i got another kick back

American Duckie
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American Duckie

publius69 sad  OK I just scrolled through here, and I am SO sorry- I got it wrong.  *my brain has been so fried lately*  it’s [email protected] 
I missed putting the P in there. I am such a dork. Sorry publius!!!

publius69
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publius69

AmericanborninCanada publius69 no problem.  i will send again right now

publius69
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publius69

AmericanborninCanada publius69 no problem.  i will send again right now

American Duckie
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American Duckie

publius69 AmericanborninCanada Got it! Thank you! will reply shortly smile

publius69
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publius69

wow!  does rubio actually believe he can rely on the dems to fulfill their obligations under this law?  what a joke

OneThinDime
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OneThinDime

publius69 Me thinks Rubio has his eyes on the millions of tax dollars that will be paid to lawyers (and he is one) to help the illegals with their paperwork.

Suzyqpie
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Suzyqpie

Bureaucrats provide immigrant criminals with financial aid to assist them in navigating the bureaucracy that the bureaucrats created for them. Redistribution from the American taxpayers to lawyers who then contribute to politicians. Folly, more folly from the Rs & Ds to the detriment of the American people.

OliviaHT
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OliviaHT

And the third thing is this: Under current law, as stated today by Rubio to Rush, under current law, illegal aliens must return home and may apply for a green card in 10 years; but under his proposal they are allowed to REMAIN HERE — thus rewarding their lawlessness. Rubio is NOT to be trusted. Clearly, having them return home and apply to re-enter after a ten-year lapse is by far more fair to everyone who is FOLLOWING our laws in their efforts to immigrate.

publius69
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publius69

this can also be another obama/democrat set up to make repubs look like obstructionists, just in time for the 2014 elections

OliviaHT
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OliviaHT

And one more thing (maybe two). If the GOP wants to do something to redeem itself to avert extinction, its elected leaders will demand hearings on why the executive branch IS NOT ENFORCING CURRENT LAW. Rush made a terrific point in his interview with Rubio: why does the Republican Party always have to come up with an alternative proposal to what the Democrats are pushing? when in reality what needs to happen to “fix” things is ENFORCEMENT of current law. Secondly, Rubio’s stated assumption is that 11million illegal aliens will not self-deport — which is clear evidence to me that he has no backbone to demand that CURRENT laws are enforced. Rather, he sees this as a golden opportunity to make a name for himself. Well, he has — but it’s not the name he was hoping for.

American Duckie
Member
American Duckie

Trying to read all the lawyer mumbo jumbo right now in this bill.  Can anybody tell me if this means what I think it does?! From pgs. 14-17 of the bill   14 EAS13500 S.L.C. (3) A  PPELLATE REVIEW  .—An interlocutory or 1 final judgment, decree, or order of the district court 2 may be reviewed only upon petition for a writ of cer- 3 tiorari to the Supreme Court of the United States. 4 SEC. 4. SOUTHERN BORDER SECURITY COMMISSION. 5 (a) E STABLISHMENT .—If Secretary certifies that the 6 Department has not achieved effective control in all high 7 risk border sectors during any fiscal year beginning before 8 the date that is 5 years after the date of the enactment 9 of this Act, not later than 60 days after the date of the 10 certification there shall be established a commission to be 11 known as… Read more »

Laurel
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Laurel

AmericanborninCanada Yes that is precisely what you are reading. One of the ten reasons I said Rubio is young and stupid. Every time we get these ‘gangs’ the average American citizen gets screwed in this country.

American Duckie
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American Duckie

Laurel A AmericanborninCanada Cripes I’m only 20 something pages into this and it’s costing billions. oy vey for what?!  other than amnesty dressed up in pretty legal words.  Crap I hate this.

stage9
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stage9

AmericanborninCanadaIf Secretary certifies that the 6 Department has not achieved effective control in all high 7 risk border sectors during any fiscal year beginning before 8 the date that is 5 years after the date of the enactment 9 of this Act,
Huh?
If on the date of the day after the date in question is 5 days after the original date of the first day, then this day will be the day that this act will go into effect.
No wonder no one reads these things.

American Duckie
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American Duckie

stage9 AmericanborninCanada I KNOW!!!!!!!  I’ve got a massive headache already and haven’t hardly read anything yet!

cabensg
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cabensg

stage9 It’s done that way on purpose. If they need to use legal speak to make it a law fine but there should also be a readable version that non-lawyers can read and it needs to be posted online for all to see. The problem with that is this. 
I was feeling very energetic and wanted to really stay on top of things so I went to a website that lists all the things (laws, amendments, bullshit) coming up in Congress. My conclusion after perusing the page is send the BASturds home. Don’t let them do anything until they’ve undone all the crap that no could understand, enforce or want in a hundred years. It’s a morass of unintelligible gobbledygook that is impossible to decipher except for the stuff that scares you to death. 
Downsize our government doesn’t even begin to address the horror they’ve created.

BS61
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BS61

It means yet another government group will be formed!   Ugh

publius69
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publius69

AmericanborninCanada you are basically correct.  this bill is full of loopholes, loopholes that favor progressives.  I stated this before but it is worth repeating: any bill co-sponsored by schumer, durbin and company is automatically subject to a high level of scrutiny.  either rubio is not as smart as many people say or he is letting his ambition get the better of him.  this bill needs serious changes to make it viable but there is one simple, underlyikng principle:  SECURE THE BORDERS FIRST…

American Duckie
Member
American Duckie

publius69 AmericanborninCanada I agree. Anything with chuck U schumer and durban is a warning to run as fast as you can in the other direction.  Dang it I’m sick.  this is a disgrace when we already have laws that they freaking refuse to impliment!!!

publius69
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publius69

AmericanborninCanadapublius69that is true.  how can these supposedly smart people not see these scum for what they are?  remember:  you never let a serious crisis go to waste…?”  they create a problem and then create laws to address them, laws which coincidentally support their progressive agendas…gee go figure

deTocqueville1
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deTocqueville1

publius69 AmericanborninCanada If a law cannot be written simply and in clear English then there is something wrong with the law and the thinking of those who thought it up and drafted it.

cabensg
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cabensg

publius69 I’m voting for not as smart and unscrupulous. Had to look up unscrupulous and it fits.

BS61
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BS61

Hi ABC – The progressives are in both parties!

Mokadoka
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Mokadoka

AmericanborninCanada  They will discuss it , But they actually have to determin that all of the terrms are not being fullfilled before the rest can “fall apart” as Rubio puts it
This means they dont have to actually do anything, If the Sec. doesnt certify that things are not being done

deTocqueville1
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deTocqueville1

Mokadoka AmericanborninCanada It is shamnesty pure and simple no matter how its dressed up.

Mokadoka
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Mokadoka

His bill creates new beaucarts who then get to decide if they are inline with bills’ terms or not.  He aslo, as far as I’m concerned. admits on Rush today that his bill doees give amnesty first …He says he changed form enfore the borders first position
His bill penalizes americans for hiring someone.   Businesses already have to comply with e verify . It’s the homeowner that hires someone to cut down a tree, mow their lawn  or move something that the bill attacks cus THAT is the work that illegals are doing. They do it cus its’ impossible to track not because other americans dont want the job

It’s a no go

deTocqueville1
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deTocqueville1

Mokadoka Precisely, a whole new beaurocratic regime to which to grant additional executive powers.

LetItBurnUSA
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LetItBurnUSA

If Levin doesn’t want to insinuate Rubio is a used car salesman, that’s his prerogative. I will call Rubio a liar though. He said on Rush’s show(and I’m sure elsewhere) months ago that if this bill didn’t secure the border, he’d walk away from it. Well it doesn’t secure the border. It merely requires that a plan be formulated for securing it, but that legalization happens right away, and even an eventual path to citizenship is not predicated on the border actually being secured. In other words, it’s 1986 all over again only to a much larger degree.
So either Rubio hasn’t read or understood the very bill he’s been crafting, or he’s deliberately misstating what it does. Everyone, including Mark Levin, is entitled to draw their own conclusion. The way I see it, he’s either a moron or a liar. I’m going with Option B.

strangernfiction
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strangernfiction

LetItBurnUSA Well said.

Laurel
Member
Laurel

LetItBurnUSA  Precisely!

applepie101
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applepie101

Mark is wrong in this case. The only position any true constitutional conservative can take is to enforce the law of the United States. Illegal aliens violate the law by being here. Instead of working for tougher enforcement, Rubio is working to overturn the law. Mark, do you intend to give equal time to Rep. Lamar Smith to discuss how Rubio’s proposal also legalizes relatives of illegal aliens, and previously deported aliens?

ellebb
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ellebb

Please tell me that Rubio isn’t on Rush’s show.  What a sell-out, Rush.

DawgfanInFL
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DawgfanInFL

I love Mark Levin, but I have every right to be upset about the bill. I don’t slam Rubio to do it. McCain – different story. I look at this bill as a ridiculous attempt to band-aid the problem. What is our problem with immigration? Enforcement. Creating a committee after three years time, to address problems rounding up illegals is three years to late. Even if they pass the bill the original problem of enforcement will still be there…only worse. How do I act upon my conservative beliefs? I contact my representatives and remind them to enforce the laws on the book.

deTocqueville1
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deTocqueville1

I have great respect for Levin however engaging in sanctimonious and self righteous argument is not only unpersuasive it in fact is a form of delflection. Throwing all the ‘he loves his country’ stuff out there does not advance anything. Rubio is a pretender as in a pretend Tea Partier and is a Bush stooge. One need only look at his record, his associations and his conduct.
In fact whether  one likes Rubio or not, he came acroos in his interview with Levin as a very bad used car salesman. A good one would try to sell a lemon without sounding unconvincing and nervous.

cabensg
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cabensg
sjmom
Member
sjmom

So, Rubio is making the rounds and now he’s going to be on Rush today. Marco, SECURE THE BORDER AND FORGET EVERYTHING ELSE!!!!!!
When are Rush and Mark going to give up on the GOP????????????

DawgfanInFL
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DawgfanInFL

Agreed, laws only work when enforced. Their seems to be a great deal of selective prosecution going on these days.

Laurel
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Laurel

When you read articles like this it is of little wonder people are ticked at Rubio and his gang. 

http://dailycaller.com/2013/04/18/immigration-bill-would-spend-50-million-to-advise-illegals/

HOW IS THIS FISCALLY CONSERVATIVE?!

deTocqueville1
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deTocqueville1

Laurel A It isn’t, period!

applepie101
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applepie101

Laurel Ait sure looks like a top-down project to replace the current population of the United States with a more compliant, government-dependent population.

Laurel
Member
Laurel

applepie101 I don’t know that Democrats are smart enough to see that far ahead…maybe some of them for certain like Obama and his handlers. I think the bulk of Democrats use emotion as a thought process and see votes.

Laurel
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Laurel

P.S. Rubio is going to be on Rush in a half of an hour.

Jayrae
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Jayrae

Laurel A Bush Crime Family damage control. Rubio is getting eviscerated on the boards. People aren’t buying his bull!

LizRodgers
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LizRodgers

JayraeLaurel AFunny bringing up the Bush Crime Family; made me think of this http://www.isteve.blogspot.com/2013/04/gop-frontrunner-for-2060-presidential.html

American Duckie
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American Duckie

LizRodgers Jayrae Laurel A I’d lol, but honestly, that seems to be about it.

Laurel
Member
Laurel

Matrco Rubio is showing his young and stupid side. As to Mark Levin, I like you, a lot, however what gives you the right to bully people in the name of another? People are allowed to describe their initial impressions of Rubio without you running interference. So what if Landmark Legal foundation went to court over illegal immigration. There are other fronts on this issue and this is still America and we still for the time being have a 1st Amendment and can voice our displeasure and disapproval. When you bully others you sound no different than Obama and the left, and make no mistake about it you were bullying non debating. And Mr. Levin…WHERE WERE YOU IN THE 80’S WHEN FIVE BORDER STATES WERE BEGGING FOR BORDER HELP AND THE REST OF THE COUNTRY ‘DIDN’T SEE A PROBLEM’?! Yeah people I know it’s not popular to criticize the Great… Read more »

deTocqueville1
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deTocqueville1

Laurel A Completely agree. Mark engaged in a general ad hominem attack on Rubio’s critics and got on his high horse. We expect better.

applepie101
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applepie101

I like Mark too, but we’re dedicated to principles, not personalities, so if a person strays into the target zone, they’re going to come under verbal fire. It’s heartening that so many here recognize that Rubio is a wrong guy offering a wrong deal, regardless of Mark’s opinion.

Laurel
Member
Laurel

applepie101 Well said!

American Duckie
Member
American Duckie

applepie101 if you haven’t read some of the replies on Mark’s FB page yet, it’s amazing how many people are getting angry at us for being too “picky” about Rubio.

applepie101
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applepie101

Good! That means we’re effective. As long as we see dangers that Rubio’s fans can’t see, it’s our responsibility to point them out.

LizRodgers
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LizRodgers

Laurel A Good post and why is it that Levin and Rush keep covering for Rubio, with comments like he has integrity and he is a true conservative;when any other Republican who would push this would be scorned.  I have an idea but am wondering what you think.

Laurel
Member
Laurel

LizRodgers Laurel A Rush really isn’t covering for Rubio. The minute he hung up with him he shot down the bill. He said Rubio is a good guy, and I’m sure he, is but he IS ABSOLUTELY misguided on this issue. I’m a Californian. I’ve been there and done that with this issue. And Rush is absolutely right about the last amnesty turning California blue. I could write a book on it because I have witnessed it up close and personal. I’m living it. Rubio is soft peddling the good parts in the bill and not talking about the spending it will cost etc. Rubio is totally naive but at some point in time his naivete will cross into the land of scrupulously stupid. I’ve witnessed a lot of that in my life too. And ya know what I would be a lot more apt to support something if just one… Read more »

LizRodgers
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LizRodgers

Laurel A LizRodgers But Rush went (somewhat) soft on him in the interview.

Laurel
Member
Laurel

LizRodgers Laurel A Rush doesn’t really interview. He lets them use his show occassionally when asked to get their message out. He will ask a few questions but for the most part they do the talking. He shot down the bill the minute he was done with Rubio.
If you want Rush interviews subscribe to his newsletters. he does in depth interviews there.
One thing about Rush, and I have known people that have met him and socialized with him that confirm this…he is polite! Even Bill Clinton called him polite. There is a reason Elton John did his wedding.
However it doesn’t mean you will co-opt him either. I don’t expect Rush or Levin to hate Rubio. People can decide on that emotion for themselves. What I do expect is for them not to demonize them for their decison…ahem…Mark Levin you listening?

Soccer_School
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Soccer_School

Laurel A  Ma’am you may not agree with me in my assertion that God exists in public schools, while disagreement is your right, I still sympathize for what your child endured.  As I wrote on the other piece, I was unaware of a similar situation at my high school long before my entry, and I’m sorry that your school did not respond in the same manner.  I read here that you are in California which I think is quite different from the Southeast.  I have attended some all star camps with athletes from CA high schools, and from our conversations it appears that those in Northern CA have more similar school experiences with me than those in Southern CA.  Admittedly, I am fortunate in that many of our school and community confrontational issues are able to be discussed and resolved locally as opposed to being transformed in public soap boxes.… Read more »

Laurel
Member
Laurel

Soccer_School Laurel A This is my last word on this old topic. You are feeling and not thinking. I don’t care about your anecdotal evidence in this instance because I have court documented evidence to the contrary. I am in Northern California but I have lived all over this state. Unlike you I have won in court on this issue. Oh and that is in Nor Cal btw. Unlike you I have the documentation on this issue. And unlike you there are many many out there that have the same. Parents, students, and teachers alike have well documented in articles, periodicals, books, and court record of the effect and discrimination that goes with ‘kicking God out of the public square’. They have documented this from all over the USA.  The trouble is you have missed a lot in your education but you don’t know what you have missed…and that is okay.… Read more »

Soccer_School
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Soccer_School

Laurel A Soccer_School  Ma’am in 4 years of playing football at a public high school, a prayer has  been said by a student from one of the participating schools for every single game from regular season through the state championship and before our state senior all star contest and a tri-state senior all star contest where the press and coaches chose me to play.  It does happen today whether you want to believe it or not. The more applicable question is did it exist in California before and if so why does it no longer exist?  Instead of discrediting someone younger and from another area perhaps consider the possibility that those before him and those around him today have managed to do something right in keeping God in their schools.  Just because your area succumbed does not mean others will in the same manner that because ours has flourished does not… Read more »

Laurel
Member
Laurel

Soccer_SchoolLaurel AWhat part of the word anecdotal do you not understand? Yeah your school does it but thousands of schools across the country are no longer allowed to…AND YES ONCE UPON A TIME WE DID SO ALSO IN CALIFORNIA. You have forgotten the broader points I pointed out to you and it isn’t just not being able to say a prayer. I know it does happen in your school…BUT SO WHAT??? The real problem is that IT DOESN’T HAPPEN AS WELL! And by a majority that wish it to happen. That is tyranny by the minority and it is all too common. I did give you credit for keeping God in your school to one minor small extent that you do. I don’t give  a crap what your take is. I care about facts…and yes college does matter provided it is an education and not indoctrination. So far you haven’t… Read more »

JayScott
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JayScott

Laurel A Soccer_School
          Just a word to the wise, there seems to be confusion about
the original meaning of anecdote as it stems from Greek origins to the popular
modern day perception which is used in this discussion.  A dictionary definition would give you
wording such as “short account of a particular event or incident.”  For simplification in understanding it might
help to compare an anecdote to a parable instead of a fable.  Technically Laurel has engaged in arguing her
contention in the manner of fallacies both formal and informal.

JayScott
Guest
JayScott

Laurel A Soccer_School            When you write in the same the response that “you are not worried” “you do not care” and then conclude with Martin Niemoller is particularly frightening Laurel.  You are better because you have personal success.  You are better because you don’t torture, maim, or murder.  I have no evidence if you live it, but you are justifying the philosophy behind the Arierparagraph in that only those who profess your beliefs in toto have a base to write or speak. There is evidence of the utilization of the practice of persecution within your responses, and selfishness.  Even if you were correct, it would seem that your focus would be on instruction and not of castigation unless you truly cared more about yourself and the messengers who are concealed in a cloud of a fable and not a parable of what you define as conservatism if you did believe… Read more »

JayScott
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JayScott

Laurel A Soccer_School
          While this young man you chastise might use some unconventional examples, it is abundantly clear that the base of his reasoning comes via primary source material.  In comparison your arguments hinge upon secondary sources and messengers which you cite as definitive when they fit your philosophy and discredit when they do not, his arguments look beyond the secondary source whether agreeable or not to formulate an opinion from the primary source.  The accusations about indoctrination could only be so vehement from the one who supports that methodology.

Laurel
Member
Laurel

JayScott Laurel A Soccer_School Baloney. He is using anecdotal evidence to state something didn’t happen because it didn’t happen to him.

Laurel
Member
Laurel

JayScott Laurel A Soccer_School Do you know how to read and disseminate information? Or do you always purposely take information out of context to spin it to suit your own personal needs?

I wrote those things, and I suspect you know this, because as I told the young man they are not applicable. Yes his world matters but the broader world and the events that surround him also matter and those events sooner or later will intrude into his world.

Laurel
Member
Laurel

JayScott Laurel A Soccer_School No it isn’t primary source because there is nothing to verify the source. It is anecdotal and as I said to an extent that counts. And my sources are primary because they are documented. Where did his arguments ever look upon a secondary source? That is the problem. He didn’t. He is basing his opinion on his personal experience and because he didn’t experience it in his mind it didn’t happen or he discounts it greatly. I have no doubt that his school still says a prayer before a football game etc. I didn’t discount it, however he discounts the certifiable events of others taking place within the culture and the country. This website alone can give documentation not to mention countless other sites. But you are not interested in that because you registered strictly to defend him didn’t you?! I made no accusations about indoctrination. He brought… Read more »

Soccer_School
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Soccer_School

Laurel A JayScott Soccer_School  Mr. Scott, thank you but I am not in need of anyone defending me for my beliefs. Ma’am, I do not have the opportunity, let alone the desire to monitor  a website 24/7.  One reason for my extended remarks in some instances is that I have to keep my ankle submerged in a whirlpool to quicken the healing and still be able to complete our season.  Sometimes I complete my homework quickly, failed to bring something else to read, and because of the noise from the water and equipment cannot listen to music or anything else.  It comes down to typing or playing some online game, and seriously unless it has something generic and involves reflexes I do not care for video games. Your original reply to me was that God has been banned from public schools.  My original post was that if God does not exist in… Read more »

Laurel
Member
Laurel

Soccer_SchoolLaurel AJayScottHere again you once again write me a novel in response on a thread that it isn’t even applicable to this one. Here again you once again are spinning and inserting things I didn’t say or misapplying what I did. Of note is your comment of reciting original sin in Latin…and coming from the young man just yesterday who boasted of his humility. Bottom Line: It was not I who moved off on tangents…it was you. I only responded to the tangents you posted. You like to continually move the goal posts. that isn’t debate, it’s dishonest subterfuge. I don’t care about your sports. I don’t care about your Latin. I am sorry you have injuries. I don’t care about your homework or the bazillion other tangents and pablum you posted in an effort to distract.You seem to have a problem communicating and staying focused on the topic. You… Read more »

Laurel
Member
Laurel

Soccer_School Laurel A JayScott Oh and one other thing that I forgot. Exodus is originally written in Hebrew, then Greek. Latin is the third incarnation.

JayScott
Guest
JayScott

Laurel A Soccer_School JayScott Soccer School it’s unfortunate that the generations since the one that won the Second World War did not have the attitudes, morality, and ethics you embrace throughout all of your comments.  If my people my age and those just a bit older or younger had that same passion, perhaps the United States of America would not be turning into a cesspool of immorality with a strong possibility of continuing down the toilet.  Every generation prior to mine, the adults and so-called leaders with experience who have been around the bend, has left this country better for their children.  We took too many things for granted and are leaving the future generations to climb out of this cesspool and sadly many seem more concerned with their own personal status and regard success through personal success without any regard for the other person.  I entered the current discussion via remarks… Read more »

JayScott
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JayScott

Laurel A Soccer_School JayScott You later asserted:  “We know the differences in this world as opposed to the difference from when we were your age. Now not everything about the ‘good ol’days’ is all that good but some things were much better. The fact that we could say a prayer at a football game. Open a city council meeting with one. Have a valedictorian proclaim their religion in their speech and thank God for his blessings.”  It seems those things still take place in this young man’s world, and I wonder if you resent that fact.  “So my dear if you won’t stand up for YOUR RELIGION, YOUR FAITH, RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW, IN PUBLIC, IN PRIVATE…THEN WHEN? WHEN WILL YOU? WHERE WILL YOU? HOW WILL YOU? And at that point how can you?”  Apparently the young man and the people in his world did stand up.  His generation should be condemning… Read more »

Laurel
Member
Laurel

JayScott Laurel A Soccer_School I see Soccer_School is still having others fight his battles on a non applicable thread. You have chose to interfere and walk into the middle of a dead conversation and misconstrue, distort, and just plain spin. Soccer_School chose anecdotal evidence of his personal experience which is not provable. As to another who commented…I never saw the comment and was not notified of the comment. Now as to your comment about subsequent generations since WWII…ah the good ol’ days. Sorry but those generations were raised by WWII generation and you share a great deal of responsibility for the subsequent mess that this culture is in. You don’t get to pawn it off when convenient and take glory when that is convenient. And No I have no umbrage, as I stated with Soccer_School and personal responsibility. I have umbrage with someone giving me an opinion then anecdotal evidence of that… Read more »

Laurel
Member
Laurel

JayScott Laurel A Soccer_School As I previously stated this conversation is at an end. It is off topic and an old one at that. I have no idea why you think I dislike Soccer_School but as I told him it is quite the contrary. I’m glad you like him and can champion him. Good, but your diatribe doesn’t go to the original point and neither did his.I still have  as yet to receive anything beyond anecdotal and now you are just adding to that. Your questions are pointless because the discussion is going no further. Your assumptions are just peachy and still have no bearing.

Good Day.

stevenbiot
Member
stevenbiot

Secure the damn border. Rev up E-verify, so we don’t have to personally deport these law-breakers. Kick all illegal children out of our schools. Also, figure out which freaking illegals are getting TAX REFUNDS! Like I said many times, SCREW COMPASSION! YOU ARE IN MY COUNTRY ILLEGALLY. DON’T LET THE RAZORBLADES ON THE FENCE CUT YOUR [email protected]@ ON THE WAY OUT!

OliviaHT
Guest
OliviaHT

MiltonBassHayek The proper use of compassion is to take care of your own, build them up, nurture and support them in such a way that they are prompted toward a life of self-sufficiency and self-reliance so that they in turn may help others, especially those in their own family (a dirty word in the minds of leftists). It is not compassionate to use the power of the state to break down national sovereignty (and national security), promote disrespect for the rule of law, encourage theft — stealing into a country to take what does not belong to you. Compassion is when as a nation you promote a policy vis a vis your neighbors that encourages them to take care of their own.

stevenbiot
Member
stevenbiot

Oh, he’s definitely a “slick, used car salesman.” But I’m not buying the car. Let another chump ride off in that lemon.

deTocqueville1
Guest
deTocqueville1

MiltonBassHayek Agree.

kssturgis62
Guest
kssturgis62

Rubio dipped his hands in the WATER WITH SATAN and is still Getting praised. HE WROTE THIS BILL, He did this. Wow How can you be on the Gang of 8 and NOT Get Credit for this, or Rightfully Called out on it. Come on This is getting crazy, it is AMNESTY, it is what he has done in Florida. It is what he is called to do and has wanted to do since he got to the Senate. He sold the Farm, he is Worse than a Slick Used Car Salesman. NO BORDER SECURITY for 10 Years, Free Phones and the list goes on and on.  So does that Mean Jeff Flake is sincere in this also. Does that mean when Rubio Voted for Brennan when Rand Paul had his Filibuster that was Okay Too !!  So Now you MUST GIVE TOOMEY A PASS ON GUN CONTROL BECAUSE HE… Read more »

applepie101
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applepie101

kssturgis62 , in your first sentence, you misspelled ‘Schumer’.

kssturgis62
Guest
kssturgis62

applepie101 kssturgis62 HAHAHAHA that is good really good !!!

Conservative_Hippie
Member
Conservative_Hippie

I agree with Mark.

cummingsamerica
Guest
cummingsamerica

“Also, while I’m on the subject, there are bloggers, columnists, and radio hosts who will personally trash Rubio because they think that shows how tough they are on illegal immigration or how conservative they are. Actually, they are pretenders. Most of them have done nothing on this issue or for the conservative movement.” I have precious few followers so maybe Mark isn’t talking about me. I haven’t attacked Rubio personally but to me his support of this immigration deal — clearly amnesty without security —  puts him in the Not It group for POTUS. I think we’ve all come to learn that when we see “bipartisan” or “Gang of” we’ve had to duck, cover our wallets, and arm ourselves. Republicans and Democrats working together has come to mean less liberty for the American people. I also don’t see how having a blog and discussing illegal immigration makes us pretenders or… Read more »

Conservative_Hippie
Member
Conservative_Hippie

cummingsamerica ” amnesty without security ”  That’s not what Rubio believes.

Laurel
Member
Laurel

WAKE UP! WAKE UP! WAKE UP!

So what if that isn’t what he believes?! That is what the bill is!!! This bill is actually the same crap sandwich served in the 80’s. 
Right now you remind me of the naysayers on Obamacare and they turned out to be wrong as well. Rubio is a shade of the same Senators that went along with that crap too.

cabensg
Guest
cabensg

Conservative_HippiecummingsamericaIt doesn’t matter what he believes. Look at the facts and judge for yourself.
https://www.numbersusa.com/content/?jid=408620&lid=9&rid=79&tid=324698

American Duckie
Member
American Duckie

cummingsamerica I was kind of offended at the same.  But then again, I don’t have that many followers yet either so not even a blip on the radar, but still doing my little part for trying to promote Constitutional Conservatism.

stage9
Guest
stage9

cummingsamerica It’s OK to think for yourself. Levin has his opinion and that’s fine, but so do you. It’s allowed. Don’t sweat it.

DawgfanInFL
Guest
DawgfanInFL

Used to be able to agree to disagree without being labeled. I disagree with Rubio on this immigration issue. I think one voice has the ability to grow. I just enjoyed reading at first here at Right Scoop, but posters such as yourself ABIC, draw others into the conversation. You are a star in my book!

LoJoFo
Guest
LoJoFo

Rubio talks too fast.  He must be trying to sell something….

StevenValdez
Guest
StevenValdez

So you’re saying Rubio is not trying to sell us a lemon immigration bill? As it stands right now, I can’t support it and I say that as someone who has been in favor of a bill dealing with this issue, for me, the bill lacks enforcement and too many questions especially on border security, the entry-exit visa system, and how it fixes the legal immigration process. The only thing I don’t have questions about is the amnesty part of the bill, the amnesty part that Rubio is trying to redefine and sell it, is pretty clear.

Freedomswatch
Guest
Freedomswatch

StevenValdez  Not sure if you were answering me Steven. I hate the bill. I’m not buying it, what I’m saying is that Rubio seems to be sincere.  You can be sincere and totally wrong, which I think he is.  I’m not for amnesty, in any iteration.

StevenValdez
Guest
StevenValdez

Freedomswatch Just to clarify for ya, my comment was towards the update#2 Mark Levin saying he’s not a slick used car salesman. I agree with you that does seem sincere but I feel he’s trying to sell us something..

cabensg
Guest
cabensg

Freedomswatch Sincerity is over rated. I prefer intelligence and honest protection of Americans and the Constitution. Does anyone doubt Obama sincerely wants to institute socialism with him as the head tyrant.

StevenValdez
Guest
StevenValdez

cabensg good point.

Freedomswatch
Guest
Freedomswatch

cabensg Freedomswatch  My assessment that Rubio seemed sincere, was a counterpoint to those who referred to him as a “slick car salesman”. Stating that I believe him to be sincere, does not equate to any portion of support for this bill. I don’t think we need to alienate people by personally attacking them, instead of disagreeing with and trying to change their position. We may need his help on other votes down the road.

Laurel
Member
Laurel

Freedomswatch cabensg It’s not up to me to not alienate any politician. It’s up to the politicians to NOT ALIENATE ME.

cabensg
Guest
cabensg

Laurel A Sorry I could only hit like once.

Freedomswatch
Guest
Freedomswatch

I am 100% against the bill.  My understanding after listening to Levin’s interview and reading his later comments is that he does not support the bill either but he thinks Rubio is sincere in his desire to do something on immigration. The current immigration bill is a Rubio deal breaker for me. I hate the bill and think that Rubio is totally wrong, but I think attacking him as a “slick car salesman” is what Levin has problems with. You usually don’t manage to persuade someone to revise their support for a bill or change the bill, by attacking their personal integrity.  I agree with EchoMike, start with a clean bill for securing the border only.  With the current climate and terror threats now may be the time to get border enforcement and security passed as a stand alone bill. Could the Democrats really refuse to pass a stand alone border security bill with… Read more »

cabensg
Guest
cabensg

Freedomswatch My take is we don’t need to do anything about immigration. This is a false argument.  Nothing will be done until Obama is replaced or we have control of the Senate to make him apply the laws in place.  It doesn’t matter what immigration plan is put forward at this time, nothing will be done that is positive or it would have already been done. Illegals could be being deported right now, they could be taken off of welfare right not, employers could be prosecuted for hiring them, right now, the border could be secured, right now. Green cards could be issued to those here legally, right now.  Just because Rubio and Demorats are yelling immigration reform doesn’t mean we need to buy into it. This is a phoney argument from the get go. As long as Obama and his administration is in charge nothing will be done no… Read more »

publius69
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publius69

cabensg Freedomswatch I completely agree:  this is just like the gun bill or obamacare….the ends justify the means…rubio is a dupe or a willing ambitious politician

stage9
Guest
stage9

I may be a fraud, but I’m still not sold on Rubio.

Jayrae
Guest
Jayrae

stage9 I’m not either especially since he campaigned in 2010 against amnesty. The youtube video exists.

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