MSNBC Guest: If Walmart paid workers more, taxpayers wouldn’t have to subsidize Walmart’s growth…

MSNBC’s Melissa Harris-Perry has been pounding on Walmart all morning, suggesting they Walmart employees aren’t paid enough and emphasizing these ‘grass roots’ protests at Walmarts on Black Friday. Problem is these protests are made up mostly of activists who simply want to unionize Walmart.

But what caught my attention was when former CNBC host Carmen Wong Ulrich argued that taxpayers are subsidizing Walmart’s growth because so many of their employees are on public assistance. In other words, if Walmart would stop being selfish with their bounty and simply pay their employees a living wage, taxpayers would save money:



One of the biggest ideas I hope that people can understand is that we are all subsidizing Walmart’s growth and income and money and we are supporting it because so many Walmart employees are on public assistance. How does America feel about the fact that we are paying or co-paying Walmart employees? I think we would like to not do that.

Look I’m going to bottom line this for you. When you accept a job at Walmart (or anywhere else for that matter), you agree to the salary that goes along with that job. If you don’t like the salary then don’t take the job. Find something else that pays better. It’s that simple.

As to the ridiculous claim by Ulrich that we are subsidizing Walmart (don’t you love how liberals think?), I’ll just say that if Walmart were forced to start paying this $25k/year ‘living wage’ to all their entry-level employees, there would be less entry-level employees and probably less Walmarts. Thus taxpayers would be paying more for people to live on public assistance.

Seriously, can’t we learn anything from Detroit?

Comment Policy: Please read our comment policy before making a comment. In short, please be respectful of others and do not engage in personal attacks. Otherwise we will revoke your comment privileges.

150 thoughts on “MSNBC Guest: If Walmart paid workers more, taxpayers wouldn’t have to subsidize Walmart’s growth…

  1. This dumb POS is a prime example of why this country is totally messed up. Wages are deductible from corporate income taxes. Higher wages mean lower taxable income. The Federal government would get less tax in her one-dimensional feelings.

    The way to get more taxes is to allow people at all levels to have larger take home pay and decide how best to use it. They can save it or spend it. As people prosper they feel more confident and spend more causing sales at stores like Wal-Mart to go up.

    Wages, including incentive raises, become a lower percentage of the increased sales and that means higher before tax earnings. Government revenue increases in a growing economy. Obama and the Marxists have it ass-backwards and are killing off the economy and tax revenues.

    These bug-eyed Keynseian economists are trying ruin the country the same way LBJ and Carter did a half century ago. We ol’ timers have seen it before and we know frrom experience it doesn’t work. People will get tired of Obama’s empty “fixes” and demand better management of the economy. Hopefully people won’t suffer too much between now and 2016, but don’t count on it.

  2. Education[edit]
    Carmen received a Bachelor’s degree in psychology and art history from Fairfield University (Connecticut) and a Master’s degree in psychology from Columbia University in the City of New York.[6]
    From Wikipedia.

    The point is…she should stick to art and its effect on psychology.

  3. Word must be out to Obama’s MSM, HELP!, “this taking over America thing is going to require a lot more taxes”. Greasing a glutton is a hopeless task, big government is the “tube” in the phrase, “America is going down the tubes”.

    1. The host can only offer so much to the parasite. Government doesn’t have one more dollar than they can get from the taxpayer or print counterfeit Quanitative Easing debt to encumber our great grandchildren.

      1. Children are as much a target as any other conservative to leftists. The same as in Islam, targeting the opponents children drives the point home. The thought of those “establishment”, politicians in D.C., approving billions and trillions of $$$ in unnesesary spending is maddening.

  4. lawngren tinlizzieowner
    Read the last link I provided. I can’t reply the normal way, something screwy is going on with this topic?
    “Hypocrisy, yes. That, I believe was your original point. On that score you’re
    right and I agree with you.”
    Anyway, you got my point. 😉

  5. To Lawngren – Amen. Arguably Carmen is BOTH ‘dumb as a sedimentary rock AND a shill for socialism’. In fact, the two attributes are inseparable. Carmen Ulrich and Melissa Harris-Perry are people who bitterly, desperately cling to myths/lies rather than using what precious little synapse activity they possess to develop an understanding of economic realities. Hell’s bell’s … even to develop an understanding of LIFE itself. No-win. To them, it’s a zero-sum game and they refuse to be deprived of that myth.

  6. “There is none so blind as he (or she) who WILL NOT see.”

    Carmen, we know some libs are dumb as a sedimentary rock, and some are shills for socialism. Which are you?

    1. Got to give the workers an excuse to demand free stuff, or they won’t rise up. It helps if you’ve had control of the “education” of those workers since they were children.

  7. Nancy Pelosi is all for raising the minimum wage at WalMart but she voted against raising the minimum wage in American Samoa, (where her Star Kist Tuna plant is).
    😉 😉

      1. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2007/jan/12/20070112-120720-2734r/
        http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2007/jan/13/20070113-122725-2957r/?page=all
        http://www.gopusa.com/news/2013/03/09/nancy-pelosi-demands-10-10-per-hour-minimum-wage/
        http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2009/05/14/thousands-lose-jobs-due-to-higher-federal-minimum-wage/
        And finally, what you might be getting at.
        http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2009/05/14/thousands-lose-jobs-due-to-higher-federal-minimum-wage/
        Note:
        “Paul Pelosi owns a $17 million investment in H. J. Heinz’s (Kerry)company, which in turn owns ~75% of Del Monte Corp’s stock. Del Monte is the parent company of StarKist. StarKist Tuna owns one of the two packing plants on American Samoa. Combined both plants employ over 60% of the population paying less than $3.75 a hour in wages.”
        😉

        1. I went over all the links you provided twice. I found no mention in any of them of a Paul Pelosi or any other pelosi owning any stock in any company at all. In fact, no mention of investment or ownership by individuals was mentioned at all. Do you have a source for that?

          As I see it, pelosi tried to do a favor for a commercial interest in her district, and at the same time she was doing a favor for the Samoans, as evidenced by the links you provided, which recite the subsequent job loss in a similar situation.

          This interpretation appears to me to be supported by the claim at one of those links that StarKist had donated several thousand to republican candidates, but nothing to democrat candidates, at the time pelosi was pushing to do them a favor.

          I suspect that pelosi realized that she had to toe the party line in the US, but was hoping to avoid financial devastation in Samoa, where, I suppose, she hoped to escape attention.

          Hypocrisy, yes. That, I believe was your original point. On that score you’re right and I agree with you.

          But I haven’t seen anything to indicate that pelosi or her husband owned or had an investment in any business in any way connected with Samoa. Either of both may have; I just haven’t seen a source for that yet.

    1. That kind of stupid doesn’t come naturally. You have to got to ‘college’ to get that. 😉 😉

  8. the budget the last 5 yrs in America is $1 trillion dollars spent on welfare and fed/state Medicaid.! that is 50% more then we spend on dept of defense.

  9. the answer is simple,

    dont subsidize them = they will need more income in order to survive = a pay raise by wal mart, (= higher prices)

    which part of this is hard to understand, ?

  10. and the prices of merchandise and food would skyrocket. those increase in wages would hit all of us directly. how stupid are these liberals? apparently they never took a course in economics.

  11. I had the pleasure of attending the Walmart 50th Anniversary monthly meeting in Bentonville. The room was filled with hundreds of VERY HAPPY and PROUD Walmart associates of all ages. Some have been with the company from the beginning! Leave them alone already! There are plenty of other places to work if you don’t want to work for Walmart!

  12. I worked for walmart years ago. They do start you off just above minimum wage for many of their positions, they never pay minimum for any position. but if you do your job you do get raises. I started out as a merchandizer and was offered 12.00 an hour and that was pretty good money 20 yrs ago in Utah for a job I have never done before. I didn’t last because I hated the place..LOL they have these Cheers you have to do to show your commitment. It’s just a little over the top for me. But some people seem to do ok. It’s not a great paying job..but I don’t see why people should be on welfare if they are working. they must mean those that have 20 kids and want the state to pay for them. Everyone needs to know raising minimum wage fixes nothing. It don’t matter what you get paid if the cost of living is too high. Because it goes up across the board once you start fiddling with the Minimum wage. We don’t get anyplace that way.

    1. Raising the minimum wage puts unskilled workers out of a job.After all,who is going to pay somebody with no skills $10/hr?

  13. The democrats are not content that equal opportunity does not guarantee equal outcome. They so desperately want equal outcome. Same with education. Democrats can not give people an education. Education is available, but it requires initiative.

    1. You’re right about the “equal outcome” statement. The one we REALLY need to pity is the bottom feeder, the classic underachiever who simply wants to skate through mandated public education and then join mom and dad in the trailer park, sitting on the front porch watching the world go by, with his/her monthly welfare check paying for beer and cigarettes and oh yeah, FOOD, and being REQUIRED by the Liberals to have an equal outcome with the doers and makers and shakers. I can just hear them whining “Oh man, can’t you just leave me alone?!” Nope…Liberals will NOT leave you alone, you WILL by God be equal to Bill Gates and Warren Buffett and President Moonbeam, so get outta that trailer park and let’s find you a proper HOUSE!

  14. Maybe the new Marxist Pope will determine a living wage for Wal-Mart workers. What about GM employees? Should they make less so Wal-Mart employees can afford their products? How far does the Pope want to promote his policies? If the rich are made poor, will the poor be richer?

    1. (sarc on) GM workers should be paid as much as Mercedes-Benz workers. After all they both make cars, don’t they? In fact we should penalize M-B for catering to the rich elite class. Those capitalist leeches! (sarc off)

      It hurt to say that.

  15. Wow. Reminded me of when Huntley and Brinkley, Cronkite, etc. were minor gods in my mind and they spoke the truth from some lofty peak we mere mortals could never achieve. What a stinking, steaming pile of dog waste.

  16. The socialist progressives do not want any entry level jobs. And as far as I can
    see, equalizing the playing field by hiring incompetent, inexperienced morons starts at the top (Obama) and works itself all through the government agencies. They must have hired minimum wage workers for the obamacare website!
    I detassled corn at 13 (lied about my age) for 65 cents per hour. If that was good
    enough for me, then Walmart entry level jobs are good enough for others. If they
    want to move up, then work hard, go to school and pay your dues. Just like I did and millions of others.
    I think they are trying to get a wage that a family can exist on for all the illegals
    that they hope to give amnesty to. Won’t they be pissed off when all the prices
    go up! Then their increased wages won’t go as far as they think they will.
    Does anyone honestly think that Walmart is going to give up their profit structure?
    Then why have all the headaches and be in business at all?

  17. We – those of us that pay attention to reality: you know, cause and effect, what works and doesn’t work, history, natural laws – have learned from Detroit. But liberals never learn from anything. Nothing matters but what they feel…and mostly what they feel is hatred for…you know; cause and effect, what works and doesn’t work, history, natural laws…

  18. Biggest advice she can give to Walmart customers is to stop shopping there and let us see if she understands economy. May be her with million dollar contract, she has never seen shopped for lower prices at Walmart.

  19. So when is Obama going to call CEO’s of 5 biggest retail companies and ask them to start paying their workers minimum $15/hr. May be not now, with his Obama Care debacle, probably in 2015.

  20. Why do I have a business? Toooooo maaaake monnnney. To pay for Obamacare for my family and 5 OTHERS! If there is anything left, I may take my wife out for popcorn minus the movie.

  21. Liberals don’t understand how jobs or money works. Absolute idiocy for these morons to suggest such an outrageous solution – to start providing a ‘living wage’. Typical socialist thinking by these ignorant aholes. When in the history of this country have you seen so much uproar over what a major company pays it’s employees? And I’m not talking about the parasitic union days. They’ve become bloated and unbelievably corrupt.
    I hope and pray that companies like Walmart and other businesses under attack by unions, loons, and bloodsuckers… that these companies stand their ground and weather out the storm that this vampiric regime has instigated. Only when we remove the devils at the top, will we really start to defang the lampreys in the unions and the ignorant, heathen progressives… and return to something more sane and civilized.

  22. Walmart is considered to be an “entry level” job. A place for someone to start building a resume by HARD WORK. Anyone thinking they should be making big bucks at an entry level job needs to get a grip. Everybody has to start somewhere, for me I was 14 folding t-shirts for a silk-screening company. Nothing was beneath me, including taking out the trash and sweeping floors.

    Kids these days don’t look beyond their job title. They want the pay but don’t want to do the work given to them. Such sad times we live in. Most the people working in our Walmart are in their 70’s, retired and working to make ends meet because SS isn’t cutting it.

    1. Exactly! The “rich” usually aren’t Walmarts regular customer base.
      Its the middle class and the working poor. They often shop at Walmart
      because they get more bang for their limited bucks. Raising wages
      means higher prices for poor people who depend on Walmart. The
      left is full of economic Illiterates. It’s amazing how these clueless drones actually think they are the brightest bulbs in the room when they are the dimmest.

  23. Wal-mart is a high school level job, unless your on the management side of it. My 2nd job after working at Taco Bell was Wal-mart in the kids area, I never saw that as a professional long lasting job….Liberal are not allowed to define every single job out there as a professional level job and should be paid for it.

    Libs just want to unionize all jobs in low level areas, so once migration bill is passed, the illegals can’t take those none professtional jobs from their voter base.

  24. First, what liberal objects to providing as much in government subsidies to as many people as possible. In her muddled view of the world, she should be thanking Walmart for keeping it’s employees impoverished so that they need assistance. Second, the thing we learned from Detroit is that a city can crumble around its citizens and they will continue to vote for destruction as long as they agree politically with the ones causing the destruction.

  25. We subsidize the growth of all business with our money. Its done when we BUY THINGS from them. You don’t HAVE to shop at Walmart, but we do HAVE to subsidize the stagnation of the Propaganda Broadcasting Service (unconstitutionally), with our tax dollars. Whereas Obama saw his own grandmother as being nothing more than a “typical white person”, I see her as being nothing more than a typical liberal. All’s fair and good, as long as they approve it.

    1. So typical of MSNBC, so one-sided, they “tilt” It is almost comical listening to their so-call experts< who are usually the same people, show after show, condeming anything that doesn't favor their views, Msnbc is a very angry network..with the likes of Sharpton, Schlutz and Bashir, and Perry is an agrry black woman, even though she is probably a millionair, earned in the country she constantely condems !

  26. why do you promote that channel at all ? its not news that they are crazy . you could do as well interviewing people in the nuthouse.

  27. A particular jobs pay is not set on the needs of the worker or the skills , experience or degree they have.
    The value of the work is what it is because of the job itself
    It doesnt matter if the worker has a degree, if the job requires no skills, no experience and no degree it pays for X amount for the work requrired
    The woman in the video thinks people should be paid for work according to their perosnal needs. but that is idiotic . Not everyone has the same needs, or wants. -some people had children young , some need a car because of their location, some have a subway or bus route
    If we set the pay on workers needs instead of the work then there wouldnt be any jobs. It would destroy everything
    People with skills , experience and degrees would only be paid what they “need” and the pay would have nothing to do with the actual work they do or how much it produces.
    Each unit of work has a set value, the more skills , experience and education a unit of work requires , the more it pays. There is no such thing as paying someone for anything except the value of the work unit they preform

  28. Thank God for Walmart and for those people willing to go to work instead of taking handouts. Walmart has provided thousands and thousands of jobs for entry level employees. That counts for a lot. Walmart is demonized BECAUSE they’re so huge and successful. Easy target. I hope they don’t capitulate to the Socialist who have made them their target. If the Socialists can succeed in destroying Walmart we’re all in trouble. Socialists/Progressives/Liberals/Democrats don’t give a rat’s ass about lower class people WHO ACTUALLY WORK. In fact, they despise them because they’re not willing to go on the dole whole hog so that they can be 100% controlled by the Government.

    1. “Socialists/Progressives/Liberals/Democrats don’t give a rat’s ass about lower class people WHO ACTUALLY WORK. In fact, they despise them because they’re not willing to go on the dole whole hog so that they can be 100% controlled by the Government.”

      Um…you realize this makes no sense, right? If Socialist/Liberals/Marxists/Commiefags/otherpeopleyou’rescaredof really hated “lower class people WHO ACTUALLY WORK,” why would they be defending the Wal-Mart workers who are protesting? If your theory were true, liberals would be very much against the protesters’ demands, and would encourage them to go “on the dole whole hog” instead of demanding a better wage from their employer.

      Look, I realize keeping one’s logic straight is not a priority when one’s worldview is based entirely on prejudice and stereotyping, but it would be nice if the pro-low-wage commenters here would at least make some effort to appear to use something resembling human reasoning skills.

    1. Thank you. You read my mind. So if they actually work that low wage Walmart job, we aren’t giving them housing allowances or free daycare. On a broader note, if you only have the skills to work at Walmart, your other job should be training for a trade. Who in the world is too good to work 2 jobs?

  29. In the pecking order of jobs, there is an absolute need for Walmart jobs. They serve a segment of persons that are not qualified or do not want the pressure of higher paying positions…they are starter jobs, in-between jobs, and supplement retired income jobs.

    The Liberals hate Walmart because they are a highly successful model of capitalism, as it is suppose to work.

    Excuse me but can the Liberals, come up with more insane wacko doodle logic?? The more desperate they become…the wackier the logic becomes!

  30. Walmart is being subsidized?? – First I heard of it!

    Hollywood IS in FACT being subsidized with Tax Incentives

    (and 95% of the movies are trash anyway)

    “Facts always get in the way of a good liberal BS story”

  31. “I’ll just say that if Walmart were forced to start paying this $25k/year ‘living wage’ to all their entry-level employees, there would be less entry-level employees and probably less Walmarts. Thus taxpayers would be paying more for people to live on public assistance.”

    So true that is.

    We almost had an argument on Thanksgiving because a family member started off on Walmart and how horrible they are. Since it was a family gathering I said nothing but here is what I wanted her to research before she formed her very myopic opinion:

    1) How many people that NEED a job to get skills, as they may have none, would never get in the door if the pay started at $12.00 per hour? At that rate anyone hiring would want to make sure that the person had something that made them worth that amount and the easiest way to show skill is your resume. If your’s is blank, you are going to be screwed.

    2) What percentage of the Walmart staff makes minimum wage and how does that compare to the MoM and PoPs that people like to bring up as being destroyed?

    3) How many good paying jobs are created even though lower paying jobs are created as well when Walmart opens up shop in a new town? Is the net benefit a gain or loss?

    4) Having seen enough interviews in which the guy with a wife-beater shirt, or no shirt is getting arrested on Cops or interviewed about the tornado – does everyone has the skills and brain power to suddenly be worth spending more to hire on, or are some jobs just what they have to do until they improve themselves?

    5) My previous career happened to be a business that had a manufacturing plant in the back and guess what? The people that worked on the floor for twelve years or more (non union shop) happen to either love their job so they wanted to do what they did, or the complained about work everyday, talked about their bills, but where the first to punch in right on time and leave right on time. Over-time for those folks would start a screaming and moaning session. The ones that didn’t complain looked happier and many of them worked out of the plant into other careers in the company making much more or moved into jobs at other businesses making more and doing better things as they advanced their careers. One of our most successful guys started off part-time, never complained, worked his butt off and moved into sales from sweeping the parking-lot with a broom. It is the people. You can only keep those that want to truly succeed down for so long before they move on or up.

    6) Tell me how many people that come into Walmart at the bottom and that also have a solid work ethic while also being mature are truly stuck there for long? Sure, maybe a smaller town in which there are not stacks of other opportunities within a store or two and not a large local population but on AVERAGE.

    7) Not every job that people take is one that they take to make the big bucks. Some people just want a part-time job so how many of the Walley World jobs are part-time by choice and thus, making advancement into higher paying jobs just about impossible – again by CHOICE?

    Ok, rant over regarding Walmart. Now of course there are times that people are stuck but looking back on the people I met and worked with over the years it is ALWAYS obvious after working with someone for even a week or so that you can tell who will be doing the same low pay work forever and who will move on to better things. Sometimes there are truly subtle mental issues and they are actually doing everything they can and they need some help, but the bulk of the people are the type that don’t have a work ethic and will complain all the time and job hop, thus they never get time & seniority under their belt.

    Just thinking back to when I would stop in at a local McD’s a few times per week. I would see some of the same people for MAYBE six months straight at the most, including shift managers. My thought is that if I had to start over from nothing and got a McDs job, I could work hard and NOT job jump every year and probably be running a McD’s store after a couple of years making three to four times what I came in the door at. Most people just do not get this. They complain while making fries or cleaning floors. Just do it and be the best at each thing you are asked to do and to most people above you, that will make you stand out and you will be rewarded for it, ignoring bad managers above you who have no work ethic but got their for the wrong reasons but this is a minority of the time.

  32. I’ve said it before, but if these types of protests continue, places like Walmart and McDonalds will expedite the transition from people to do-it-yourself checkout machines and kiosks sooner rather than later.

  33. This is pure insanity. These people learn nothing. These are the idealogues! I am living the reality of these people’s theories on how things should be. I live in Illinois. I don’t have much experience in the areas where full time work can be found. They make it so expensive for a business to hire someone that they want a guarantee as to what kind of employee they hire. So they are less likely to hire someone who doesn’t have the experience or the long term unemployed. Their policies are the problem! It’s personal to me and it’s offensive!

  34. I’m done until RS can fix this ad/blue screen stuff. I can’t read anything but the first couple of posts.

  35. Once again I hear a Progressive Democrat complaining about people using the entitlement system they created. And I quote…”One of the biggest ideas I hope that people can understand is that
    we are all subsidizing Walmart’s growth and income and money and we are
    supporting it because so many Walmart employees are on public
    assistance.”

  36. She not thinking right. If some Walmart employees receive some public assistance that means they would be receiving a whole lot MORE if they didn’t have their job at Walmart!

    So Walmart is helping people in a sense, and it is great these people want to work.

    (What’s with Walmart and Liberals? It is like waving a red flag at a bull. Strange obsession.)

  37. Just reading “MSNBC’s Melissa Harris-Perry” conjure up thoughts of ‘The Communist Manifesto’ written by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels. That’s Perry’s progressive version of the Bible which she worships like her Messiah, Lord Obama.

    The leftists attack Walmart because it’s the largest retailer in America and the number one company with regards to job creation.

    “Walmart employs 2.2 million associates around the world — 1.3 million in the U.S. alone. About 75% of our store management teams started as hourly associates, and they earn between $50,000 and $170,000 a year — similar to what firefighters, accountants, and even doctors make. Every year, Walmart promotes about 160,000 people to jobs with more responsibility and higher pay.”
    http://news.walmart.com/walmart-facts/

    I believe Walmart’s facts and agree with TRS – “…Problem is these protests are made up mostly of activists who simply want to unionize Walmart…”

  38. Let see if everyone make a livable wage, what ever that is, say about 100K for a low skill job I guess for skilled workers how does 500K sound. Then she would expect Wal-Mart to keep the prices the same, that is only fair. The LIBS have no clue about BASIC Econ let alone trying to understand the concept. When they can answer how can one take care of the TAKERS without PRODUCERS ? Would like to hear that answer. But in mamby pamby land that works ?????

        1. Any fix? Wonder if RS is aware? It seems the ads are involved. The ad appears over John’s post and all else is blue.
          RS needs to fix this.

          1. If you highlight text, you can read but it’s problematic. Presently on my screen, the ad is blocking my first reply to you. It’s annoying and I hope it’s fixed soon.

            1. My computer (?) won’t allow me to highlight, I’m only able to read what comes to my inbox via the account with disqus.
              It’s aggravating.

              1. Reboot? It fixes 98% of all problems. Now if I could only find Ctrl-alt-delete for The White House.

  39. Ulrich:
    if Walmart was paying more, the prices would go up and it would lose its market edge.
    . Taxpayers do NOT subsidize Walmart.
    ……………….but I know that giving facts to a commie is a loss of time….
    Those dark clouds over our cities? Not smog – it is liberal piramidal idiocy.
    Only imbeciles discuss things they know nothing about.
    You talk about things you have no idea about.
    Like your 50% white god….
    Capisce?
    PS Do you know what has happened to Ulrich (von Jungingen) at Grunvald?

  40. The ONLY reason liberals go after Wal-Mart is because the company espoused conservative values. I don’t know what the practice is today, but when Plan B first came on the market, their pharmacies refused to carry it. They sell guns, there was a time (don’t know if it’s true now) when they wouldn’t carry over the top R rated videos/CD’s/Games.
    That’s the only reason the left jumps on this company.
    IF they were consistent they would jump on the backs of other companies such as Target who truly DO treat their employees like crap on legs. I KNOW, I worked for them in two different states.

    1. I disagree that the only reason liberals go after WalMart is because the company espouses liberal values. The primary reason they go after WalMart is that is is the largest retailer in the US and is non-unionized. The unions look at all those WalMart employees and covet all the union dues they would get if all the WalMart employees belonged to the union. With the demise of manufacturing in this country, union membership has plummeted in the private sector. The vast majority of union members today are public employees. The unions desperately want to refill their ranks with retail employees.

  41. There’s an easy answer for this. If the employees aren’t making enough they should go to school to get a better paying job somewhere else.

    1. Except that min. wage employees are actually better educated than ever. It is a fact that the value of the min. wage has gone down as the education level of min. wage employees have gone up.

      Stop telling workers that things will get better for us if we just work harder, get more of an education, etc. We’ve been doing that. It hasn’t worked. It’s time for corporations to step up and solve the problem of low wages.

      1. Personal responsibility is something that is totally lost on people such as yourself.
        If you think getting an education is worthless, you may want to tell those in college right now, or going to trade schools, they just may disagree.
        Take care of yourself and stop demanding what you have not earned.

        1. I hate to get all “you don’t know me,” but, um, you don’t know me. You’re making a lot of assumptions and strawman arguments. I never said or implied that education is “worthless.” I’m a student teacher. I am working for no pay right now so that I can get a better job in the future. Don’t tell me I am “demanding what I have not earned.” You have no idea what I’ve earned, and it is extremely arrogant of you to make assumptions like that about people you’ve never met.

          What I said was that the increase in the level of education of min. wage employees has correlated with a decrease in the real value of the minimum wage. That is simply a fact. Telling min. wage workers that they will get paid more if they get an education is simply not backed up by real life. It’s a way to put the blame on min. wage workers for not making enough.

          Personal responsibility is a virtue that I saw practiced by my former co-workers when I worked at Wal-Mart (before I had to quit to focus on teaching). It is a virtue that hasn’t paid off.

          You put down min. wage workers because you need someone to feel superior to.

          1. I’m at a disadvantage in replying, due to the blue screen I’m dealing with. However, I don’t have to “KNOW” you to read your comments. YOU ARE DEMANDING corporations pay what YOU deem worthy.
            It’s free enterprise and capitalism that your are railing against.
            Korea called, they want you back.

            1. “YOU ARE DEMANDING corporations pay what YOU deem worthy.”

              You do realize that minimum wage laws have existed since the 1930s, right? I could just as easily tell you “the 1920s called, they want you back.”

              Also, you do realize that Wal-Mart gets massive subsidies from the government, right? How come you complain about poor people getting “entitlements” from the government, but not about huge gov’t subsidies to giant corporations? How is the free enterprise?

                1. Assuming that report is correct Walmart collected $1B in tax breaks.

                  They paid $8B in income tax 2012 not to mention the taxes their employees paid, property taxes etc. Hard to put a number on that but one would think the benefits of having a Walmart in your town outweighs the money you’re whining about. But it’s all a zero sum game right. Walmart getting that $1B took away from someone getting it.

                  What a joke you guys are

                2. “But it’s all a zero sum game right. Walmart getting that $1B took away from someone getting it.

                  What a joke you guys are”

                  Who are “you guys?” Isn’t it Republicans who are constantly pretending to care about the debt and deficit? Who say that we have no choice but to cut programs that help the poor in order to cut the deficit, all while favoring more tax breaks and subsidies for the rich? How is that not a “zero sum game?” That $1 billion could have gone to the deficit, but instead it went to Wal-Mart, a billion dollar corporation that doesn’t need that subsidy. You are outraged by poor people on welfare, who have no choice but to go on gov’t assistance because their job doesn’t pay enough, but not this?

                  You have no principles whatsoever.

                3. do you know anyone who works at Walmart or do you just make stuff up? my MIL works there and has for about 5 years. she makes $13/hr, doesn’t collect any welfare and is very happy with where she’s at her age. when her father got sick Walmart gave her a 13 month leave to take care of him as he died with cancer. when she was done they gave her job back with no problems.

                  you passed right over the $8 BILLION they pay in taxes, the lively hoods they allow millions of families to have as the largest employer in America, the taxes all those employees pay just to cry about some money you pretend to care about. If you cared about that so much let’s hear you cry about helathcare.gov which still doesn’t work.

                  you leftist commies make me sick

                4. “do you know anyone who works at Walmart or do you just make stuff up?”

                  I worked for Wal-Mart for three years before I had to quit to focus on student teaching.

                  ” my MIL works there and has for about 5 years. she makes $13/hr, doesn’t collect any welfare”

                  That’s great for her. That doesn’t change the fact that 80% of Wal-Mart employees DO collect welfare, and they do so because they don’t make enough.

                  “and is very happy with where she’s at her age. when her father got sick Walmart gave her a 13 month leave to take care of him as he died with cancer. when she was done they gave her job back with no problems.”

                  Again, good for her. But a single anecdote does not constitute reliable evidence. I have brought facts and statistics to the table; you have not. Again, you are the one relying on emotion rather than reason to make your arguments, not me.

                  “you passed right over the $8 BILLION they pay in taxes,”

                  You realize that’s a small percentage of what Wal-Mart makes, right? They have actually exploited loopholes to avoid paying the rate they are supposed to in taxes:

                  http://www.dallasnews.com/business/retail/20130914-how-wal-marts-waltons-keep-the-tax-man-at-bay.ece

                  “the lively hoods they allow millions of families to have as the largest employer in America,”

                  I’ve never denied that Wal-Mart has done some good. I am grateful for my job there, and I was always treated well at my store. But you’re trying to make this a black and white issue. Just because Wal-Mart has done some good doesn’t mean they haven’t also done some wrong. Haven’t you ever heard the phrase “with great power comes great responsibility?” As the largest employer in American, Wal-Mart has a responsibility to pay its workers a decent wage. I will give them credit for paying slightly above the minimum, but the minimum should be higher. Wal-Mart needs to do more to ensure its employees make a decent wage. Did you hear that a store recently had a food drive for its own employees? That should be a wake-up call that they are not paying their employees enough, but it wasn’t. Why are you OK with Wal-Mart asking you to pay for its employees’ basic needs?

                  ” the taxes all those employees pay just to cry about some money you pretend to care about. If you cared about that so much let’s hear you cry abouthelathcare.gov which still doesn’t work.”

                  You keep trying to change the discussion. This has nothing to do with healthcare.gov and you have no idea what my opinion is on that issue. The rollout was a disaster, however it is improving and the law has already helped slow the growth of healthcare spending. The CBO estimates that it will reduce the deficit, and yet Republicans still want it repealed, so you’re proving my point for me.

                  “you leftist commies make me sick”

                  So emotional. Calling everyone who favors a rise in the minimum wage a “commie” is hilariously out of touch with reality, and shows you for the radical, ignorant, emotion-driven partisan you are.

              1. Wal-Mart already pays many of their employees ABOVE the minimum wage. You do realize we’re a rep. republic with each state setting it’s OWN minimum wages, right?
                Wal-Mart promotes from within, so a lesser educated person, who proves themselves to be good employees can move up to management and gain even more skills and wages.
                Do you demand ALL businesses that receive government subsidies do likewise?
                You’re as transparent as every other liberal on planet earth.
                Your ideology is destroying this economy as it has thru out time.

                1. “Wal-Mart already pays many of their employees ABOVE the minimum wage.”

                  I know, I started at 8.40 even thought the min. wage in CA is 8.25. That’s nice, but only because the current min. wage is comically low. Wal-Mart is the largest corporation in the entire world–they can, and should, do better than that. Some of their competitors already do, and it’s not because a job at Costco is inherently “worth more” than a job at Wal-Mart. It’s because Costco realizes that paying their employers more increases worker productivity and demand.

                  “You do realize we’re a rep. republic with each state setting it’s OWN minimum wages, right? ”

                  You realize there’s also a thing called the federal minimum wage, right?

                  “Wal-Mart promotes from within, so a lesser educated person, who proves themselves to be good employees can move up to management and gain even more skills and wages.”

                  And that’s great! Still doesn’t change the fact that 80% of their workers are on government assistance.

          2. Let’s consider one undeniable fact. Every time the minimum wage is increased, employment either declines or stalls. The last two being 2007 and 2008.
            We are mired in a stagpression (any time over 4 quarters when rising GDP increases at a rate lower than interest and population increase.).
            Adding another increase in minimum wage will push us over the cliff again and trigger a real depression.
            Most likely, His Oneness will love that.

            1. Another fact is, min wage increases do not help the situation of min wage workers. Their buying power of their weekly pay does not increase, because the min wage increase forces prices up for everything a worker will buy. From rent to milk to gas, min wage increases cause inflation across the board for everyone.
              A min wage job is the lowest pay rate no matter what. It will allways be the lowest paid because that particular job does not requrie skill, experience, education or increased effort.

              It will be the lowest paying job even after the min wage goes up and it’s cost of labor forces all prices up.
              Min wage increases cause accross the board inflation for everyone, and that inflation harms the working poor and middle class the most , because its those two groups that are most likely to only have savings that are not invested..
              The 1000 dollars they worked hard to saveup now buys less after the min wage increase.

            2. Employment is at a 40 year low as a percentage of the workforce. This has nothing to do with the minimum wage. It is simply a reflection of the fact of the Global economic system we live in. More and more is being done over seas and less and less in America.

              The medium wage is far lower half of all workers make less than $12.80/hour. Not nearly enough to afford a family. This is going down and has for many years due to the shifting of every possible job overseas.

            3. “Let’s consider one undeniable fact. Every time the minimum wage is increased, employment either declines or stalls. The last two being 2007 and 2008.”

              That is hardly an undeniable fact. Many recent studies have shown no unemployment effect from minimum wage increases. This is a highly disputed issue right now. How do you not know this?

          3. You need to get a real job that pays so you know what the heck you are talking about.

            You do not get paid at at particular job for experience, skills, education or effort that the work of the job does NOT require.
            The pay is set on what the job requires to be performed.
            It does not matter that someone has a liberal arts degree when they go apply as a McDonalds’ drive thru operator, because the work does not require a liberal arts degree.

            1. OK, let’s say all that is true. Can you explain to me why a job at the McDonalds drive-thru is worth less today than it was in 1968?

              1. because there are more people to work it and that drives the price of labor down. don’t you understand that?

                probably not that’s why you advocate for amnesty

                1. There are more people to work those low wage jobs because jobs aren’t being created due to lack of demand. Lack of demand is caused by low wages. It’s a vicious cycle.

                  The crippling of unions over the past few decades hasn’t helped either. It’s no coincidence that unionization rates and min. wage rates are both at record lows. That clearly has not been good for our economy. High rates of unionization have always been correlated with a strong middle class.

                  Workers need more power and more money. Our economy is suffering due to lack of demand. More money in the pockets of the average American means a thriving economy. More money in offshore bank accounts does not.

                  Also, wow, do you assume a lot. You have no idea what my policy on immigration is, but you brought it up out of nowhere. You have been poisoned by partisanship.

      2. We just hired for two technical positions starting at $52K a year with great benefits. The position was posted for 5 weeks. We had 6 people send in resumes, 4 interviewed and 2 were capable. Where are these people you’re talking about?

        1. Um, we’re talking about minimum wage workers and you’re asking me why these guys aren’t applying for 52k/yr tech jobs?

          Jesus Christ, the level of privilege and disconnect from the real world here is astounding.

          1. “Stop telling workers that things will get better for us if we just work harder, get more of an education, etc. We’ve been doing that. It hasn’t worked”

            Take your emotion based drivel back to a site that buys the crap you’re selling.

            1. “Emotion-based?” It’s fact-based. I just told you that min. wage workers are more educated today than at any time in the past, and are making less in real dollars. That is a fact. What part of that don’t you get? You are the one responding with emotion-based personal insults. You are the one with the derpy, prejudiced screen name that emotionally generalizes an entire group of people (for the record, I hate when liberals do this too–I have many intelligent conservative friends). You are the one refusing to engage with facts. And you are the one whose entire stance is based on an emotional need to have someone to feel superior to.

              1. Yes. You’re “stop telling workers… ” BS is all emotion. They have NOT worked harder, they have NOT received enough education. They are on the take and are now demanding wages they don’t deserve. period. I worked my @$$ off to get where I’m at. That’s not this “privilege” you want to cry about it’s reality. The Filipino kid and Chinese middle aged woman we hired are not “privileged” they worked their tails off to get into a position to succeed. You libs celebrate failure. You reward laziness and hate success and hard work.

                Now go support the NDAA, PATRIOT Act, Droning American citizens, expanded war, targeting people with the IRS, DOJ spying on journalists and all the other wonderful things the Left supports. Your party is now the Godless party of abortion and illegals. That’s it

              2. Min wage jobs are min wage BECAUSE they require NO skills , NO experience and NO education.
                It does not matter if the worker has a degree, because the value of the work is not set on what the worker has, it’s set on what work is required.
                If the woman in the video had her way,, everyone would be paid the same regardless of their skills, experience or education. There would be no reason to have any skills , experience or education and know matter what work you do, you’d be making min wage.
                You only get paid more to do work , if the work requires more experience, skills , education or effort.
                You dont get paid more to do a min wage job because you have skills , work , experience or effort that the job does NOT require.
                If it did, then we’d all be paying far more for everything , making our “raise” in pay meaningless.

                1. You have no compassion for the poor.

                  Fact is the medium wage is far too low. This is virtual slavery forcing now a majority of Americans onto some form of Government Assistance.

                  Think there are not the jobs. Over half of working adults are on assistance and 40% of adults can not even find a job worth having (some are disabled or retired I agree).

                2. Pay attention A min wage job is a min wage job BECAUSE of the work . They do not require any education, any skills , any experience, THAT is why it’s a min wage job.
                  It does not matter if the min wage is 5 , 10 or 15 dollars, The min wage and the jobs that pay min wage are always the lowest paying jobs BECAUSE of the non-requirements of the job.
                  When the min wage goes up, the money to pay them does not come out of “Profit” , because “profit” is what you have AFTER all the business expenses are paid, including labor costs and taxes.
                  The money to pay for increases in labor costs don’t come from a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow,. It all comes from the consumer in prices of the products and services at the register. …..the same registers that min wage and middle class workers buy all their products and services.
                  ALL prices go up when cost go up The Prices go up to meet the costs. So everything becomes more expensive with a min wage increased, The min wage worker now has more money in their check but they also pay more for everything
                  The buying power of their weekly check is not increased . so the min wage increase does NOT help them at all.
                  They pay more for everything because the costs to pay them is more. leaving them with the same buying power they had before the increase
                  But it gets worse! The working poor and middle class are more likely than the rich to ONLY have uninvested cash savings . The inflation caused by the min wage increase causes their savings to be worth less, because it now buys less.

                3. Not buying your propaganda.

                  A near minimum wage job is that because the employer has little difficulty finding workers that have no choice but accept these horrible wages. Slavery of sorts forced by big business joining together and forcing by all means possible low wages. They bring in legal and illegal aliens to lower wages. They get laws passed to lower wages. The squeeze is on to enforce a class system in America. A system where eventually only the top 1% will have any real chance for anything other than slavery like conditions on the entire earth. Even doctors are now being squeezed by these tactics.

                  We are serfs in America with a tiny upper class. There is no real freedom in America you can move but the squeeze is on and there is no way out of it.

                  Colleges are the absolute worst. The expense of an Education is many times too high yet keeps going up. A College graduate has only a 50% chance or less of even finding a decent job. They come out with so much debt many will live as virtual slaves to this debt for decades.

                4. There is no such thing as a job that requires no skills. To say that is extremely demeaning to the tens of thousands of minimum wage workers who perform services for people like you every day.

          2. I agree.

            This is totally out of touch with reality talking about a job in the top 25 percentile group of jobs.

            Fact is a large majority of Americans simply will never be able to get one of these rapidly decreasing number of jobs. The force of all wages is down unless you are in the top 10%.

            I guess he has no compassion for the poor. Instead of addressing their problem he blames these hard working men and women.

            They are virtual slaves requiring assistance from master (Government).

        1. Why do so many people here find it acceptable to make such unwarranted judgments about complete strangers? When did manners and civility stop being conservative values? No conservative I know would ever talk to people like this. You have no idea whether or not I take “responsibility for my own life” or if I depend on others. You’d think that Mitt Romney’s loss would at least make you think that saying things like this out loud is a bad strategical move, even if you don’t realize that it’s also morally wrong.

          I have brought facts to the table. No one here has challenged those facts, they have simply resorted to cheap personal attacks meant to make themselves feel superior to people lower on the socioeconomic scale. This is the basest form of tribal politics.

          1. You are now now judging me who you do not know. I had a female boss who treated me terrible because she was jealous, a married male boss who tried to rape me, another chauvenist male boss who treated me like crap and I worked more than once where I was underpaid. I quit them all and went to school for real estate and was quite successful. I made it on my own in a commission job and nobody handed me anything.

            Something else. Don’t vote for those who are trying to destroy business because they are destroying jobs. Obama’s anti business policiies have done nothing but keep the economy stalled and now with Obamacare the jobs situation is only going to get worse. Businesses are not going to destroy their bottom line for the govt and will lay off, not hire and delay raises. Pro business policies help everyone, especially workers. So if you want to rant then do so on the lib sites and tell people to stop hurting the private sector.

            There is no free lunch and you cannot depend on anyone in this life and shouldn’t anyway. There is only ONE to rely upon and that is the Lord and He will neither fail nor forsake anyone who calls upon Him.

            PS. My 28 yr old son wanted to get into the medical sales field and it took him over 2 yrs but he did it by knocking on door after door and calling and following up on a regular basis, so it still can be done. How bad do you want it?

            1. “You are now now judging me who you do not know.”

              Yes, but to be fair, you started it. When you tell a stranger on the Internet that he needs to start taking responsibility for his own life and stop depending on others–when you have absolutely no basis to make that assumption, other than said stranger’s political disagreement with you–of course I am going to judge you. That is horrible, uncivil behavior, and people who do such things should be called out for it.

              “I had a female boss who treated me terrible because she was jealous, a married male boss who tried to rape me, another chauvenist male boss who treated me like crap and I worked more than once where I was underpaid.”

              That’s terrible. I’m very sorry for that, and I’m glad you’ve been able to find success despite these challenges.

              But I’m not sure how it relates to this discussion. If anything, your challenges show why we need strong worker protections. One of those protections is a strong minimum wage.

              “There is no free lunch”

              We are not talking about a free lunch. We are talking about fair pay for services rendered. I understand it’s convenient for many conservatives to try and muddy the waters of discussion by pretending we’re talking about people being “dependent,” “lazy,” “irresponsible,” etc. But it’s not honest, and anyone who chooses to use their rational capacities instead of gut feelings of tribal superiority can easily see that.

              1. RE: “fair pay for services rendered” — who exactly gets to decide what is “fair pay”? Employers need to get work done so they can stay in business. That is why they hire people. The employer offers the worker a wage. The prospective employee is free to either accept or reject the wage offered. In a healthy economy, there are enough available jobs so that no employer can significantly undercut others in wages; employees will simply go elsewhere and the employer will be forced to increase the wage offer to attract employees. In an unhealthy economy, with many people bidding for a few jobs, an employer have can offer low wages because there are no competing employers to outbid him.

                So they real question that you fail to address is why are there so many excess workers and not enough jobs? This is the root problem and will not be solved simply by giving the lucky few who do have a job more money. Perhaps this will help you understand the root causes and help you turn away from the “band-aid” solution of a never-ending inflationary wage-price spiral that was tried so disastrously during the 1970s.

                ‘One explanation for why U.S. unemployment has remained so high … is our trade deficit with China, abetted by its undervalued currency.”

                “That so many Americans continue to accept this suppression of a variety of exchange rates against the dollar is probably a function of the fact that for so long this suppression provided benefits such as cheap goods and cheap credit. In addition, for a while, manufacturing jobs seemed to be replaced by jobs in the service economy and construction industry without any economic disruption or any rise in the unemployment rate. However, the bursting of the credit bubble exposed the true structural decay that had occurred in the US economy. But, like zombies, many Americans still cling to the naive belief that we can return to the good times of the 90s and the earlier part of this decade, unable or unwilling to recognize that those high times were a debt-driven anomaly.”

                http://seekingalpha.com/article/262752-why-u-s-unemployment-remains-so-high

                1. “The prospective employee is free to either accept or reject the wage offered.”

                  This is naive. A prospective employee today is no more free to reject the wage offered than they are free to starve. You say yourself that in an unhealthy economy, employers can get away with offering low wages due to a lack of competing employers, so obviously you recognize that the worker is at a distinct disadvantage in this situation. You don’t see it as a constraint of freedom, but I do.

                  Republicans and the Tea Party have offered no solutions other than to further decrease the advantages of employees (by fighting unions and increases in the min. wage) while increasing the advantages of employers (see above, as well as reducing the tax burden on large corporations). Somehow, we’re told, giving employers more power over their employees will help all of us, because trickle-down.

                  This hasn’t worked. The min. wage is now lower than it’s been since 1968 (that’s not a lie, that’s a fact based on the only way to accurately measure such things), unionization is at a historic low, taxes on corporations and the wealthy are at a historic low, and corporate profits are at an all-time high. Obviously, trickle-down doesn’t work.

                  “So they real question that you fail to address is why are there so many excess workers and not enough jobs?”

                  Lack of demand. You see, jobs aren’t created just by employers and business owners. Jobs are created by an ample consumer base. People need spending money in their pockets for the economy to do well. Raising the min. wage would increase demand because more average people would have more money to spend. At the least, recognizing the right of all workers to unionize and demand better wages (a natural part of any truly free market) would help workers gain more of an advantage and increase their pay. Republicans and Tea Partiers have only offered “solutions” that address the supply component of the market. But that’s not where the problem is. Tax breaks to corporations are a band-aid. What business really needs right now to create jobs is more demand. We need direct, consumer-centered stimulus, and we need it yesterday. We can’t afford to keep waiting on trickle-down policies that never pay off.

      3. I don’t know how old you are Chris. But I worked for low wages for years before I felt I was on track to get more. A wal-mart job is a low end job, as are flipping burgers. Try some vocational work for instance. Do you know what an electrician, plumber, welder, etc., etc.
        make? Those jobs require intellect as well as hard work or people would not call them to repair or install their stuff.

        1. I don’t know how old you are, either, but I do know that the value of the min. wage has fallen since you worked those jobs. If it had kept pace with inflation since 1968, it would be over $10 today.

          If you’re arguing against raising the minimum wage even though you worked min. wage in the past, you’re literally saying that today’s min. wage workers shouldn’t have the same advantages that you had. I am sure that’s not your intention. But it’s what you’re doing.

          1. You don’t me. I had no advantages. I slept in cheap motels and worked crappy jobs and made my own way. Get off your behind. Even a trash collector can make over $10 an hour. Or do you think you are to good to actually work for a living?.

            1. “I had no advantages.”

              I am sorry, but that’s simply not true. You had the advantage of a higher minimum wage than we have today. I am not saying that you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth. I am pointing out the fact that you had a specific advantage that you now want to deny others.

              I don’t understand why so many Americans–especially conservative Americans–are offended whenever they are told they have had advantages that others have not. It’s not an accusation, it’s just a fact.

              “Get off your behind. Even a trash collector can make over $10 an hour. Or do you think you are to good to actually work for a living?”

              Yet more personal attacks that don’t even make sense given the discussion we’re having. Why do people here keep saying this? It doesn’t make any sense! We are talking about people who work for a living! We are not talking about handing out welfare checks to people who choose not to work. We are talking about paying hard working people a wage that is comparable to what workers doing the same jobs were paid in America in 1968. To call that “radical” and “socialist” is to reveal oneself as completely ignorant of history and out of touch with reality.

              1. RE: “You had the advantage of a higher minimum wage than we have today”. Now you are just flat-out lying. The minimum wage in the past was not higher than it was today. The mandated minimum has never been lowered by any legislation, it has only been raised.

                Giving you the benefit of the doubt, I presume that what you meant to say was that the purchasing power of the dollar has decreased thanks to the bipartisan Keynesian monetary policies pursued for decades and that minimum wages have not kept up with inflation? This was the argument in the 1970s when, led by union demands, wages were increased to keep up with inflation. This led to a wage-price spiral and massive, economy crippling inflation. I don’t believe it would be a good idea to repeat this unfortunate and mistaken policy.

                If we want to help workers, perhaps we need to rethink the long-standing policy of an economy built on never-ending inflation? Perhaps a period of zero-inflation or even a mild deflation of prices would be helpful? Struggling workers would sure like to see lower prices at the grocery store, wouldn’t they?

                1. “Now you are just flat-out lying. The minimum wage in the past was not higher than it was today. The mandated minimum has never been lowered by any legislation, it has only been raised.

                  Giving you the benefit of the doubt, I presume that what you meant to say was that the purchasing power of the dollar has decreased thanks to the bipartisan Keynesian monetary policies pursued for decades and that minimum wages have not kept up with inflation?”

                  Obviously that’s what I meant, CBDenver (though I don’t know if agree that this is due to Keynesian monetary policies–most Keynesians support keeping the min. wage consistent with inflation, and that didn’t happen). My original statement was not a lie. You HAVE to take inflation into account when comparing today’s minimum wage to the min. wage in the past. It makes no sense to do otherwise. It’s not “giving the benefit of the doubt” to assume that I meant what I meant, because my statement was based on the only logical way to measure such things.

          2. Since inflation is the culprit, perhaps we should change our monetary policy to reduce inflation? Liberals support Keynesian economic policies which assume that inflation is necessary and desirable. A yearly increase of the money supply and the resulting devaluation of the dollar via inflation is built into the system. Because of the adoption of Keynesian economics, the US dollar has lost value year after year.

            In the 1970’s, your policy of raising wages to allow workers to keep their heads above water in an inflationary economy led to a wage-price spiral and a phenomenon known as “stagflation” where there was high inflation and high unemployment. Is that what you want to go back to? I remember that unhappy period and I do not want to return to it.

            1. I am not sure if reducing inflation is good policy, but I’d be willing to try it out. It would certainly be a long-term experiment, though, so I would have to support raising the min. wage back to 1968 levels in the meantime.

      4. As long as you continue to misdiagnose the problem, you will never find the solution. The problem is not “low wages”. The problem is that there are not enough jobs in the higher paying sectors. Educated Americans who used to work in jobs as computer programmers, engineers, supervisors in manufacturing plants, etc have seen their jobs outsourced to foreign countries. Do you really think educated Americans will be satisfied with a job that does not engage their intellectual skills if we just raise the minimum wage?

        1. Outsourcing is certainly a problem as well, but I don’t see how that contradicts the fact that low wages are also a problem. Both are defended by conservatives as being natural parts of the free market; Democrats have proposed disincentives to outsourcing, and Republicans have opposed them.

          1. Your statements about Democrats proposing disincentives to outsourcing while Republicans oppose them reveals that you are stuck in the “R v. D” paradigm. The real dichotomy is between the ruling elites and the rest of us, not between those who have an “R” or a “D” after their name. The reason we have outsourcing is because the international monetary system distorts the exchange rates between the US and other countries, making it possible for foreign corporations to sell their services to the US at a discount. The international monetary system controlled by central banks, the IMF, and the World Bank does not resemble anything close to a free market.

            1. You’ve got a point–I certainly didn’t mean to imply that Democrats have always been the stalwart defenders of the middle class–but there is still a line of difference between the two parties on this issue.

              1. Geeze, you were doing so well but then you had to jump back on the team Democrat bandwagon at the end there. So I can only give you half a point. The great thing about being a Tea Party supporter is that I am no obliged to give my support to either of the two dominant political parties. I hope you find that freedom some day. Have a good evening.

                1. And you were doing well until you said you support the Tea Party. 😉 I’m really not sure why you think Tea Party candidates are going to do a damn thing about the problem of outsourcing, but they certainly haven’t shown any interest in doing anything that would restrict the power of large corporations to do basically whatever they please.

  42. When Walmart reports its earning and they’re lower because of the salaries the stock holders are just going to say okay?

  43. I’ve heard this same line over and over from Liberals. When I point out the same thing you do they go ape. They just don’t like to hear common sense.

    1. Common sense?

      i am conservative. I do not believe in Government welfare being handed out all over the place.

      Fact in 1955 the median man had a High School education and made enough money to support a wife and five children with no government assistance.

      Now in the age of Big Government the median man does not make enough to even have a wife who does not work. Even if that wife works they combined do not make enough to avoid needing Government assistance. Impossible to afford any children without Government assistance.

      So exactly how do you support less Government and support the current very low wages for most US citizens?

      You can not have it both ways.

      If you support low wages you absolutely are a Big Government liberal.

      1. “So exactly how do you support less Government and support the current very low wages for most US citizens?”………well, for starters, less Government means less tax burden on those who pay taxes.

        This means that wage earners would see more of their wages actually make into their pockets.(which they could spend at Walmart)

        Less tax burdens on the wage payers, might mean they may have more money to pay the wage earners.

        Seriously….it’s not that complicated.

        1. How do you propose we get there.

          GOP idea. Pay the employees so little they are forced onto Government Assistance. Then blame them for working for you. Ignore your low wages force them onto welfare. Complain about high taxes your low wages force.

          This is insanity.

          My idea. Eliminate all the welfare and force employers to pay enough welfare is not required for those working. Walmart can not run it’s stores without employees same with almost every near minimum wage job. But do both not just one.

          Fact is GOP Establishment is Big Government liberalism. Evidently most here are BIG Government liberals.

          1. With this phrase: “force employers to pay enough”…..you reveal yourself to be quite the little totalitarian.
            “Force” has no place in a free society, or a free market.
            Another part of the equation you Leftist’s always seem to conveniently forget, is who decides what “enough” is?
            Who do all you Lefty’s agree has the ultimate moral authority to set the standards for “enough”?
            How do you go about identifying that person, and how do you get everyone to agree they are the perfect choice to handle the magnificent responsibility of deciding what is “enough” for each and every one of us to earn…..and conversely, each employer to pay?

            1. Simple.

              Minimum Wage. There is nothing wrong with that. Slavery was what no minimum wage brought.

              Totalitarian is far more what we now have. A majority of Americans forced to accept Government Assistance. If you have children at the point of a gun or you lose your children. That is real totalitarian government.

              All I propose is we end that by making wages high enough that there is no need for Government Assistance then end the Government Assistance.

              Your goal is not at all what you say. You love higher taxes as proved by the wages you prefer to pay forcing higher taxes to pay the additional money your employees need to simply survive and obey the laws of our Totalitarian system.

              1. You didn’t answer my question.
                I suspect it was because you didn’t understand it, judging by the fact that your ideology is all over the map.
                You didn’t help your cause at all by finishing with a lie……….I love higher taxes? Seriously? How you got that from my reply is beyond me…..

                1. All I propose is we end that by making wages high enough that there is no need for Government Assistance then end the Government Assistance.

                  How in Hades do you expect these benefits to be financed if not higher taxes. Not like there is any chance of rolling them back. GW Bush added new entitlements. GW bush did all he could to increase entitlements just like the democrats do. GOP Establishment or Democrats do the same.

                  The lower wages go for the middle class the more entitlements they will get and the less in taxes they will pay. That means the upper class has to pay more. That means you are for higher taxes when you are for lower wages.

                2. You’re incoherent, you’re projecting things onto me that I never said…….and you STILL did not answer my question.
                  This leads me to believe you are in fact not a Conservative as you claimed, but a troll.

                  If I’m wrong on that last point however, I would kindly suggest that you go to Walter E William’s website and pull up some of the brilliant essays he written about free markets in general, and minimum wage laws and their affects in particular.

                  Reading them will be time well spent…

Comments are closed.