Paul Ryan: I love Herman Cain’s 999 plan

Looks like Herman Cain is starting to feel the love for his 999 plan, first from Art Laffer and now from Paul Ryan. This is a big deal:

DAILY CALLER – House Budget Committee chairman Paul Ryan says he “loves” presidential candidate Herman Cain’s signature “9-9-9″ tax plan.

Ryan told The Daily Caller in an exclusive interview that Cain’s plan is a good starting point for debate, and shows the GOP presidential campaign season has entered into a more advanced stage where ideas — not just personalities — have come to the forefront.

“We need more bold ideas like this because it is specific and credible,” Ryan said. “I’m more of a flat-tax kind of a guy.”

The budget chairman went on to say that ideas like Cain’s plan could help shape the debate over tax reform moving into 2013.

“It’s great to see such bold ideas,” Ryan told TheDC.

Commenting on the sniping among the candidates and their criticism directed at Cain’s plan, Ryan said the entire process would make the eventual GOP nominee stronger going into the general election.



(h/t: Weasel Zippers)

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Anonymous
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Anonymous

TRS is this thread really from a week ago?

GB

Anonymous
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Anonymous

For those into Beatles music, and economics not so much, here is the b.o. presidency done in titles from the band’s songs and albums.

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2011/10/mr_obama_if_were_gonna_start_quoting_the_beatles.html

GB

chris
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chris

At least Herman has a plan (a good one I believe). The other so called “front runners” have no real plans. They just talk around the problems with no solutions.

Herman we love you! Gave ya $200 so far

chris
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chris

Im not sure what all the confusions about? We have a a corrupt tax code already and if you live in a state with a sales tax guess what; you pay the states sales tax and taxes to the irs.aka. ( gestappo ). 999 only replaces the current tax code. 999 does not affect state taxes.

2 Point Op
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2 Point Op

I see 9-9-9 turning into 2-12-18. 2 for corporate, 12 for sales tax, 18 for incomes.

Taryn O'Neill
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Taryn O'Neill

Mmm that Congressman Paul Ryan.. Nothing quite stirs a young conservative woman’s blood like a… a “flat-tax kind of guy”!

Anonymous
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Anonymous

“Starting Point” is a good point. In debate, a plan that will protect us from an ever-increasing rate of taxation should be solidified and bolted down into place. We don’t need a 9-9-9 that can eventually escalate into a 65-65-65.

Josh
Member
Josh

I have been reading about the numerous posts about the bad part of Cain’s 9-9-9 program, which is the national sales tax. Here are the talking points: 1. It is a new source or revenue for the Federal Government 2. Everything (new) will cost more 3. 9-9-9 will become 99-99-99 or some huge number 4. We should change the existing tax code instead of throwing it out and replacing it There is absolutely no reason to argue these points. Why? Because people who are afraid of change are going to be afraid. 1. Yes. It is a new source. Everyone realizes that now they just change the current tax code to get that from you anyway, right? 2. Yes. New goods will cost more. States without taxes will now have taxes. You will have more money in your pocket, but you should ignore this in order to continue this argument.… Read more »

Anonymous
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Anonymous

“We the people” love it too!!

Jack Lynch
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Jack Lynch

it is interesting that when ban lidin was killed by americ. the stock markets tanked.al quadi supporters say this is the price america will pay for two decades.they are also pulling for herman cain-their theory is he will lead us into a great depression.they are waiting for mass demonstrastions of american senior citizens to boycott as the supreme court in 1960 said that social securtity and medicare could be cut to the bone.and herman cain close frind of beck and supported by ryan may well be the gop nominee seeting the stage for a great internet global depression.they only wish ben ladin was alive to see america in chaos- any media people who want to interrview me to discuss america’s broken economy can call 775-348-7990-we should have never allowed hedge funds to part of the american fabric.they will destoy millions of jobs in the future.uncle jack-775-348-7990

Anonymous
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Anonymous

I don’t watch the show because I’m disgusted how the other 4 pander to him. I’m thankful he survived because I don’t wish anything harmful to anyone.

Anonymous
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Anonymous

I agree with Ryan. 999 is a good way to start the debate of a flat tax, but the National Sales Tax is a non-starter.

Bill Redder
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Bill Redder

Some points made in favor of the 9-9-9 plan I find worthy of consideration and will repeat here: With the 9-9-9 plan everyone will have skin in the game, whereas now, approximatly 51% of the population pays no income tax. Everyone would have an incentive to vote for the party who will not raise taxes. If everyone is paying the national sales tax, and because this plan is transparent, it would be difficult for congress to try and raise it without public outcry. It eliminates government bankrolling pet projects via the tax code. Prices of goods have taxes hidden in them and the 9-9-9 plan gets rid of that. I think we all know of the tsunami of business the country will enjoy with a 9% corporate tax. I am not 100% on board yet with this 9-9-9, and I’d like to know what happens to states already levying a… Read more »

Paul Rees
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Paul Rees

The slippery slope argument against a national sales tax is impotent: Let’s not address the problem, because someone in the future might change it. The 999 plan doesn’t need to be perfect to be better than what we have. It doesn’t need to be passable to be worth fighting for, and it doesn’t have to make everyone happy to be a good idea.

Ritchard&Theresa Pomeroy
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Ritchard&Theresa Pomeroy

What if instead of requiring a 2/3 congress pass, it was a popular vote required at 75%?
I think we the people must have a direct say in how the taxes are levied….

mike morrison
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mike morrison

We do…it’s called the House of Representatives…also, before the damned 17th amendment, our state Houses could recall a Senator at any time if they were not representing their constituents wishes. A repeal of the 17th amendment would fix Congress in less than 2 years with no other legislation needed. I fear any pure democracy…that’s why our nation has done so well–we’re a representative republic.

Steven
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Steven

Cain/Ryan would win in a landslide. I hope Cain can make it through these next two weeks, because they are going to go Palin on him. If he survives, then he’s our guy. I’ll support him to the hilt! Yes. We. Cain!

Jamie Lowe
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Jamie Lowe

I love a plan to follow the Constitution. Centrally planned economies do not work from the right or left because you can’t control the economy without controlling people and you can’t control people without using force. Once force is applied your Liberty is gone.

Anonymous
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Anonymous

I like Cain alot, but the 9-9-9 plan is terrible. When the pendulum swings back to the Dems, say with similar majorities like ’09, do you really want the likes of Pelosi, Frank, JJ jr. et al to have a new MASSIVE tax spigot? And I don’t think the requirement for a 2/3 majority to raise it will pass the constitutionality test. From reading what Ryan said it sounds to me like he likes the simplicity but not the specififics. Ryan is certainly not “feeling the love” for 9-9-9.

One other thing. Now most of us here don’t want to be told what light bulb we should be using. Along the same vein, maybe it’s just me, but when I am at the check out counter buying a quart of milk I don’t want the Federal government there with it’s hand out.

Bill Redder
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Bill Redder

I don’t understand your “tax spigot” analogy. Are you implying what we have now is NOT a spigot? Cain made it clear the old tax system would be thrown out; 999 is not a piggyback plan. He explains on his site a bit about phasing 999 in. Under 999 everyone has the incentive (including those now not paying any federal taxes) for there not to be a “10-10-10.”

However, I agree with the 2/3 majority matter. sticky business, that.

Jaynie59
Member
Jaynie59
lugita15
Member
lugita15

FWIW, I don’t think the Paul Ryan is endorsing the 9-9-9 plan, he said he prefers a single flat tax.

Anonymous
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Anonymous

Ok Mr Ryan its this plans its good , present a bill tomorrow why waiting more than a year , but I hope to its better than your plan to add $10 trillion to the debt.

Is_Sense_Common
Member
Is_Sense_Common

Oh my – this IS a big deal! I’d love to see Mr. Cain come out with a 15-20 minute video that goes into more detail about this plan so that we can understand it better and can inform others more effectively about it. Obviously no one would be able to explain a nation’s tax code in 30-60 seconds, as is attempted at these stupid debates. An infomercial about it would be great!

sDee
Member
sDee

Where is the online 999 tax calculator that I can download and feed it my TaxCut or TurboTax file from last year?

These guys have computer models out the gazoo. Notice they never make them available to us Citizens who paid for them?

Anonymous
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Anonymous

stumbled on this ‘999 calculator’ today on Nerds4Cain http://www.nerds4cain.com/Blog/archives/723 …don’t think you need to feed it much to get the result. personally, I’d prefer such a simple tax formula! not the current bloated IRS code that makes your eyes shoot blood by 4/15 every year.

Anonymous
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Anonymous

I’d prefer not to pay for taxes for services or goods that I or my family actually get from the government…..Nothing more and nothing less. smile.

Anonymous
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Anonymous

me either, but what ‘services or goods’ from the govt. do you think 999 will tax you on?

Anonymous
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Anonymous

I think we will be taxed on goods and services that we don’t benefit from and don’t want- just like now.

Taxation w/out Representation is still tyranny!

Anonymous
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Anonymous

are we not now?? taxed on goods/svcs we ‘all’ don’t benefit from ‘directly?’ I’m failing to see where 999 is ‘taxation w/o representation’ or tyranny…if you’re happy with the current IRS code, so be it. or tell me what would be ‘better’…

Anonymous
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Anonymous

The point is that HC, while well-intentioned, may not have the solution with 999….I believe we will still be overtaxed and overburdened for things we don’t want or need and still be forced to pay for the favored people under HC’s plan. I’m not impressed.

Joshua Ostrom
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Joshua Ostrom

Just put one up up http://999calc.com smile

Darren Anderson
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Darren Anderson

You can say all you want about the 999 plan turning into a 19 19 19 plan but here are a few thoughts you may want to ponder. 1) This plan is a straight forward plan. Nothing hidden like what we have now!! (You still haven’t seen what’s in Obamacare!) 2) The citizens understand it. 3) 3/4 vote to raise it. Think what will happen if someone starts talking about raising it…. I’m sure they won’t get re-elected. 4) Takes away the power from the congressman and lobbyist for those special perks. 5) GE would have paid taxes this year instead of using all their special privileged loop holes. 6) Reduce the size of the IRS 7) File your taxes in minutes 8) The ability to plan your taxes instead of waiting to see what they changed. …. In general, any tax can be raised, just look at where we… Read more »

sDee
Member
sDee

Actually it reminds me of all the promises of healthcare reform.

I still do not know if 999 will force me to pay more or less to support a Central Government that is doing all it can to turn America into a socialist state and destroy my way of life and my children’s future. But heck maybe I just need to quit complaining, start trusting the criminals in DC and pay 999 .

I still do not understand how the 999 plan fixes the number one problem facing us. Our out of control spending, regulations and sheer size of central government. I am sure Cain has thought that through. I just do not see it.

Cindy08
Member
Cindy08

Tax Rate–Single Taxpayers–2011 Taxable income: Tax: Over ——– But not over—–Tax —— +% — On amount over $ 0 ————-$ 8,500——– $ 0.00 — 10 — $ 0 8,500————34,500 ——— 850.00 –15 — 8,500 Tax Rates–Married Individuals Filing Joint and Surviving Spouses–2011 Taxable income: Tax: Over —— But not over —– Tax —– +% —- On amount over $ 0 —- $ 17,000 ——- $ 0.00 — 10 ——– $ 0 17,000 —- $ 69,000 —– $ 1,700.00 — 15 —— $ 17,000 For those earning $17,000 annually, they will be slapped with a new tax of 9% on their income as well as a 9% towards the cost of food and clothing. Married couples within the $69,000 bracket will be stripped of 6% (15-9) but will pay out 9% on consumption. Sales tax will be then enforced in states like Alaska, Oregon, Delaware, Montana and New Hampshire. The people… Read more »

Debby
Member
Debby

Now just tell me………..would that be 9% added to the 6.35% sales tax I’m already paying here in Armpit, CT?

Cindy08
Member
Cindy08

That’s my very question! In Oregon, we do not pay any sales tax right now. It is unclear if we can still opt out! But for the other states, I wonder if this is going to be an additional tax. Remember the saying “take from Peter to pay Paul”. We get a cut on our income then turn around and pay higher taxes or plain new taxes! And the only way to get out is to buy used goods!

My last point is: why does he not leave the Sales tax as it is. The highest percentage paid (California 6.85%) is still below his 9% proposal!

Jamie Lowe
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Jamie Lowe

Yes! A brand new National Sales tax on every purchase. If this plan was being proposed by Obama every person in America would be screaming bloody murder but since it is a “Republican” it must be OK.

Cindy08
Member
Cindy08

The creed of the TEA Party is “Taxed Enough Already”. By all counts, what he is proposing is a VAT. Until Cain really goes into the details about how that is going to happen and we get to know who Cain’s secret advisors are, it will stay a guessing game!

Anonymous
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Anonymous

Not true. The embedded taxes we are paying on goods right now are more like VAT taxes than Mr. Cain’s 999 plan or the Fair Tax. VAT taxes are being used in Europe too. That is one of their downfalls.

GB

Anonymous
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Anonymous

?????????????????????????????????????????

Just the opposite is true, obama has been given a free ride from the onset of his candidacy. His father was not an American citizen therefore obama is ineligible to be president…and it’s been down hill ever since he got into office,

It’s OBAMA’S fault!

Anonymous
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Anonymous

Oh, you take his name in vain, so nicely.

GB

Anonymous
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Anonymous

What you don’t understand is that you currently pay multiple national sales taxes ALREADY! You pay a 18.4 national sales tax on every gallon of gas you put in your car. You pay the corpororate income tax on every item you purchase. The top coporate rate is 35%. You currently pay the corporate payroll tax on every item you purchase. Another 15%. Both of these taxes will no longer be BUILT-IN to consumer prices. Yes, that is right, corporations build ALL their cost into the selling price of their products or services or GO BROKE. So if corporate tax rates go down prices will go down.

Sandy Creech Eady
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Sandy Creech Eady

Plus you will no longer have the 15 – 30 percent payroll tax deducted from your paychecks for federal income tax. That is a raise every pay day.

Anonymous
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Anonymous

Therein lies the problem.

Debby
Member
Debby

I replied to myself. Now there’s something new smile

oops

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

Smile!

Debby
Member
Debby

It’s a HUMONGOUS problem then, yes?

He’s got some ‘splainin’ to do.

Anonymous
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Anonymous

Yes, but the 22-23% embedded tax you are now paying would go away.

Another beauty is that hookers, drug dealers and other malcontents would be paying their fair share. Unless you imagine they are calling their accounts every spring like the rest of us… Mmm Hmmm.

Then, If I want to buy a little fishing boat, I would pay the tax on it, if it is new (not if used), but my brother would be paying the same rate of tax on his yacht. (I just hope he takes me for a ride on it sometime.)

GB

Debby
Member
Debby

I’ve heard experts say, not necessarily.

Call me skeptical.

Anonymous
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Anonymous

I was skeptical before I parachuted for the first time too. That was over 46 years ago. wink

Anonymous
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Anonymous

posted on alipac Cain’s 9-9-9 tax plan is simple: you’ll simply pay more By John W. Schoen, Senior Producer When it comes to Republican presidential candidate Herman Cain’s proposed 9-9-9 tax plan, there’s one thing all sides agree on: it’s very simple If you’re a corporation, own a small business or count yourself among the richest Americans, you’ll simply love it. If not, you’d simply pay a lot more in taxes. Everyone hates the current tax code. A Congressional supercommittee is attacking the mess as part of a broad proposal to balance the federal budget. President Barack Obama wants to pay for his jobs stimulus package by raising taxes on the wealthiest households. Corporations are agitating for a “tax holiday” for over a $1 trillion in profits stashed overseas to avoid the IRS back home. Now Cain, who has recently surged to the front of the pack of GOP presidential… Read more »

ReneePA
Member
ReneePA

This plan gives people a lot of control over how much they pay in taxes.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

Anyone nervous about the politicians changing our tax system?

Personally I wonder why we are paying for taxes at all since we are not being represented.

Cindy08
Member
Cindy08

Here is more:

State Sales Tax

All states EXCEPT Alaska, Delaware, Montana, New Hampshire and Oregon, collect sales taxes. Delaware collects a Gross Receipts Tax (GRT) which is a business and gross receipts tax that can total 2.07%. Some have a single rate throughout the state though most permit local city and county additions to the base tax rate. Those states with a single rate include Connecticut, District of Columbia, Indiana, Kentucky, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Mississippi, Rhode Island, and West Virginia.

States with the highest sales tax are: California (8.25%), Indiana (7%), Mississippi (7%), New Jersey (7%), Rhode Island (7%), Tennessee (7%), Minnesota (6.875%), Nevada (6.85%), Arizona (6.6%), Washington (6.5%), Kansas (6.3%), Texas and Illinois (6.25%).

Most states exempt prescription drugs from sales taxes. Some also exempt food and clothing purchases and a few also exempt non-prescription drugs.

http://retirementliving.com/RLtaxes.html

KenInMontana
Editor
KenInMontana

I would add here, while Nevada does have a sales tax, there is no Personal State Income Tax in Nevada. I’m not sure as to what kind of property taxes and business taxes they have or what the levels are.

Also, here in Montana, we have no sales tax because we have consistently voted it down. I would not expect a National Sales Tax to receive any warmer reception than proposed State sales taxes.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

Your reasoning is like our current complex and hard to understand tax code. The 999 Plan is TRANSPARENT. The 999 plan can be monitored in real time by “we the people”. We don’t want to have to hire a professional CPA to interpret volumes of code that changes constantly. We want it simple. We want to be able to keep our eye on it and keep the fat cats out of it.

You are talking in generalities, never making a solid point and really not making much sense. That is what we are trying to be FREE of. No more liberal mumbo mumbo. Speak in terms the average Joe can understand.

Your numbers are not veriviable nor are they logically presented.

Like I said in another post, the ones who will scream the loudest are the ignorant and the freeloaders.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

I only posted the article, B. It is not my reasoning.

Rshill7
Member
Rshill7

Oh look, Chris Christie just looked in his lunch box and found a monkey wrench.

He’ll probably eat that too…but…it’ll give him a belly ache.

Romney’s belly is plastic, much like the rest of him. His belly will be just fine. Aaaahahahaha!

Chalk up another one for Cain !

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

I’ll repeat, Romney will not be the nominee.

Conservative_Hippie
Member
Conservative_Hippie

I hope you’re right – no more moderates please!

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

What if he is? What’s the exit strategy. I “think” I can sustain another 4 years of obama with a heavy conservative majority in both houses to keep him in check. ALthough, say goodbye to the supreme court though.

My dislike of obama is only 1.5 points above Romney. If Romney’s the nominee–no money of course. And since I live in a blue state anyway, well that part of the ballot will probably remain blank.

Anonymous
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Anonymous

Thank you Congressman!

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

Cain’s 999 plan is becoming harder and harder to criticize. First Art Laffer, and now Paul Ryan come out in support of it. This is very good news for Cain.

ReneePA
Member
ReneePA

9 is my lucky number.

Debby
Member
Debby

It might NOT be if 999 is the law of the land. I still don’t understand it. Until I do, I’m skeptical. As we all should be. I believe if your State already has a sales tax, as mine does, plus an in come tax (thank you Lowell Weicker) this is an additional tax. I’m not on the Cain train yet.

Conservative_Hippie
Member
Conservative_Hippie

I guess I need to revisit this 9-9-9 plan. My gut reaction was it was bad, but if Ryan and Laffer like it? Interesting…

MontyRay
Member
MontyRay

Thought the same thing earlier this week. Go to his site. I like the fact that he can sum it up on one page. It is being distorted by lots of people, but others have real concerns. I for one, try to boil it down to questions like: “is it better than what we have?” AND “Will it help the economy and strengthen the Country?” AND “Will it encourage business to bring their money back on shore and possibly even spur industry that previously left?”. Yes, yes, and yes.

The latter question also needs regulatory reform (Good Energy Policy helps, too). Both are in Cain’s platform.

sDee
Member
sDee

Group think. We really know nothing about it, yet it is goodness. Pass the tax reform bill so we can find out what’s in it.

Giving an out of control government a more efficient means to tax us, helps who exactly?

Have we learned nothing from the obama regime?

Philip
Guest
Philip

Kudos to Mr Ryan. Yes, the plan has some kinks but gets people thinking outside the box. It is amazing how the Republican establishment is threatened by Mr. Cain. I think Mark Levin’s take on this is spot on.

NickDeringer
Member
NickDeringer

“A good starting point” is a weak endorsement. Glenn Beck raised a good point today: what’s to stop 999 from turning into 29-29-29 or 39-39-39. Once the politicians get a hold of it there’s nothing to stop them from abusing it. Given how the constitution has become irrelevant, requiring a two thirds vote won’t cut it.

zytekfan
Member
zytekfan

What stops 9-9-9 from being raised to some absurd rate, is it requires a 2/3 majority vote in both the House and Senate in order to raise any of the rates.

sDee
Member
sDee

Has there ever been a tax or fee that did not go up? Has there ever been a Congress or Administration that did not use new legislation to grow its power amd size? Why is everyone so willing to trust this Congress, which has shown utter contempt for the Constitution and the rule of law? Congress passes a law that 2/3 majority is needed to raise 999. Congress decides it wants to raise taxes without a majority so it passes another law to bypass the first one. Or, Congress changes what goods are taxable. Or Congress passes a new law to tax wholesale and distribution transactions instead of just retail. Or congress decides certain high ticket used goods are taxable like cars and boats. WE NEED LESS FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. Do not give the bastards any more tools to tax us until they first shrink down to a size that no… Read more »

Conservative_Hippie
Member
Conservative_Hippie

you make a good point sDee.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

You are exactly right.

NickDeringer
Member
NickDeringer

Like Beck said, they don’t respect the constitution now what makes you think they are going to stop at a 9% tax?

DJ DeMent
Guest
DJ DeMent

Kinda like how there’s nothing to stop them doing it NOW. What’ll help prevent it however is the lack of ability to play the class warfare card. They can’t raise it on the rich and then slowly bump us up to it as they’ve always done. would have to be across the board tax hikes, and that would be political suicide.

sDee
Member
sDee

Good point. Still holds if we make them slash the size of the Central Government before they enact it.

I say we try removing the parasite rather than trying to starve it by forcing ourselves on a diet.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

I talk since the first day.

ReneePA
Member
ReneePA

They will be paying too.

MaxSteele
Member
MaxSteele

That is kind of a ridiculous argument due to the fact that any legislation you put out there can be manipulated by future politicians. Cains answer to this is simple and to the point. Currently the tax code is so confusing and jumbled up that they add things or change things all the time without anyone knowing it. Yet with such a simple, simple plan as 9-9-9 any change, addition, loop hole they make will be evident and clear immediately. So asking what can you do to stop future administrations from changing something that is a great idea makes absolutely no sense. Maybe I shouldn’t get out of bed tomorrow since I could get him by a car…huh??

NickDeringer
Member
NickDeringer

I will answer your question without making lame insults. The idea that the criminal politicians in the Congress and Senate are going to let go of their Tax Code cash cow is pure fantasy. It is pie in the sky to think that they will go along with repealing the tax code.

They can’t even abolish ObamaCare and you think they’re going to abolish the tax code??? Really??

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

What has stopped the fat cats in the past. They have modified the existing tax code over 5000 times in the last ten years. The current code is so complex and complex by design. The more complicated, the easier to manipulate and sneak money out of our pockets. The 999 Plan is TRANSPARENT !!. We can watch them in real time. No sneaky code modification without facing the screams from “we the people”.

NickDeringer
Member
NickDeringer

Sure. Check back with me in six months and let me know how much you think Herman will go all the way.

I predict the next “flavor of the month” will be Newt Gingrich. He’s due.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

Go get’m Cain!

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