By The Right Scoop


Two weeks from the day we were attacked on September 11, 2001, while rescue crews where still trying to locate survivors in the rubble of the twin towers, Ron Paul took to the floor of the House to explain why we had just been attacked, pointing his finger squarely at American policies for bringing about what had occurred just two weeks before, almost justifying the attacks that had just killed almost 3,000 Americans:

Osama bin Laden, a wealthy man, left Saudi Arabia in 1979 to join American-sponsored so-called freedom fighters in Afghanistan. He received financial assistance, weapons and training from our CIA, just as his allies in Kosovo continue to receive the same from us today. …

It is during this time that bin Laden learned to practice terror – tragically, with money from the US taxpayers. But it wasn’t until 1991, during what we refer to as the Persian Gulf War, that he turned fully against the United States. It was this war, said to protect our oil, that brought out the worst in him. …

Of course, it isn’t our oil. The oil, in fact, belongs to the Arabs and other Muslim nations of the Persian Gulf. Our military presence in Saudi Arabia is what most Muslims believe to be a sacred violation of holy land. The continuous bombing and embargo of Iraq has intensified the hatred and contributed to more than 1,000,000 deaths in Iraq. It is clear that protecting certain oil interests and our presence in the Persian Gulf help drive the holy war.

Muslims see this as an invasion and domination by a foreign enemy, which inspires radicalism. This is not new. This war, from their viewpoint, has been going on since the Crusades 1000 years ago. We ignore this history at our own peril.

The radicals react as some Americans might react if China dominated the Gulf of Mexico and had air bases in Texas and Florida. Dominating the Persian Gulf is not a benign activity. It has consequences. The attack on the USS Cole was a warning we ignored.

The hatred has been suppressed because we are a powerful economic and military force and wield a lot of influence. But this suppressed hatred is now becoming more visible and we as Americans, for the most part, are not even aware of how this could be. Americans have no animosity toward a people they hardly even know. Instead, our policies have been driven by the commercial interests of a few – and now the innocent suffer.

Here’s the full clip and transcript:

Following the September 11th disasters, a militant Islamic group in Pakistan held up a sign for all the world to see. It said: AMERICANS, THINK! WHY YOU ARE HATED ALL OVER THE WORLD. We abhor the messenger, but we should not ignore the message.

Here at home we are told that the only reasons for the suicidal mass killing we experienced on September 11th is hatred engendered because we are free and prosperous. If these two conflicting views are not reconciled, we cannot wisely fight or win the war in which we now find ourselves. We must understand why the hatred is directed toward Americans and not other western countries.

In studying history, I, as many others, have come to the conclusion that war is most often fought for economic reasons. But economic wars are driven by moral and emotional overtones. Our own revolution was fought to escape from excessive taxation but was inspired and driven by our desire to protect our God-given right to liberty.

The War between the States, fought primarily over tariffs, was nonetheless inspired by the abhorrence of slavery. It is this moral inspiration that drives people to suicidally fight to the death as so many Americans did between 1861 and 1865.

Both economic and moral causes of war must be understood. Ignoring the importance of either is dangerous. We should not casually ignore the root causes of our current fight nor pursue this fight by merely accepting the explanation that they terrorize us out of jealously.

It has already been written that Islamic militants are fighting a “holy war” – a jihad. This drives them to commit acts that to us are beyond comprehension. It seems that they have no concern for economic issues since they have no regard even for their own lives. But an economic issue does exist in this war: OIL!

When the conflict broke out between Iraq and Iran in the early 1980s and we helped to finance and arm Iraq, Anwar Sadat of Egypt profoundly stated: “This is the beginning of the war for oil.” Our crisis today is part of this long-lasting war over oil.

Osama bin Laden, a wealthy man, left Saudi Arabia in 1979 to join American-sponsored so-called freedom fighters in Afghanistan. He received financial assistance, weapons and training from our CIA, just as his allies in Kosovo continue to receive the same from us today.

Unbelievably, to this day our foreign aid continues to flow into Afghanistan, even as we prepare to go to war against her. My suggestion is that not only should we stop this aid immediately – we should never have started it in the first place.

It is during this time that bin Laden learned to practice terror – tragically, with money from the US taxpayers. But it wasn’t until 1991, during what we refer to as the Persian Gulf War, that he turned fully against the United States. It was this war, said to protect our oil, that brought out the worst in him.

Of course, it isn’t our oil. The oil, in fact, belongs to the Arabs and other Muslim nations of the Persian Gulf. Our military presence in Saudi Arabia is what most Muslims believe to be a sacred violation of holy land. The continuous bombing and embargo of Iraq has intensified the hatred and contributed to more than 1,000,000 deaths in Iraq. It is clear that protecting certain oil interests and our presence in the Persian Gulf help drive the holy war.

Muslims see this as an invasion and domination by a foreign enemy, which inspires radicalism. This is not new. This war, from their viewpoint, has been going on since the Crusades 1000 years ago. We ignore this history at our own peril.

The radicals react as some Americans might react if China dominated the Gulf of Mexico and had air bases in Texas and Florida. Dominating the Persian Gulf is not a benign activity. It has consequences. The attack on the USS Cole was a warning we ignored.

Furthermore, our support for secular governments in the moderate Arab countries is interpreted by the radicals as more American control than they want over their region. There is no doubt that our policies, which are seen by the radicals as favoring one faction over another in the long-lasting Middle East conflict, add to the distrust and hatred of America.

The hatred has been suppressed because we are a powerful economic and military force and wield a lot of influence. But this suppressed hatred is now becoming more visible and we as Americans, for the most part, are not even aware of how this could be. Americans have no animosity toward a people they hardly even know. Instead, our policies have been driven by the commercial interests of a few – and now the innocent suffer.

About 

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  • http://twitter.com/JonathanPhilbec Jonathan Philbeck

    Using Moral Relativism to argue against America and for Al-Qaeda since the very beginning. Historical and Moral ignorant.

  • Anonymous

    How can any good American support this pile of garbage RuPaul??

    • Anonymous

      I’m an American and a vet. I support Ron Paul 100%.

      Ron Paul is correct.

      • Anonymous

        Good for you.

        So you think if we just leave them all alone, it’ll be all sunshine and lollipops?

        That Iran will suddenly stop seeking nukes and we’ll have world peace??

        • Anonymous

          Hmm no one said leave them alone. We’ve already altered the course of their history for 6 decades starting with the CIA led coup de tat of their democratically elected Prim Minister in 1953 at the behest of BP.

          Let’s try some diplomacy. Did you know that half, that’s 50%, of the entire country is under the age of 35? Those are young kids wanting to buy Levi’s and Coca-Cola. Let’s try talking with them and trading with them before we start bombing them for something they might do one day.

          (If you’re wondering where the old people in Iran went, the USA backing Saddam Hussein killed them in the Iran-Iraq war.)

          • http://twitter.com/PoeAllen Allen Poe

            Anonoped Voted for Ob, right. Talk out a 5000 year old war? Sure. When pigs fly.

          • onetwopunch

            “CIA led cout de tat”, this is false. Tired of you a-holes lying by omission. I have read this so many times from the paultard spambots. “At the behest of BP”, this is a new one though. I hope some on this board that even mildly entertain this bs meme about Iran 1953 from these clowns, scratch more than just the surface of events that led to Mossedeq’s ouster.

      • Anonymous

        It’s always America’s fault isn’t it? Give me a break.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Kris-Smith/100000135417264 Kris Smith

          Nothing is ALWAYS America’s fault. My country is not always wrong, my country is not always right.

          • Anonymous

            Agreed.

            ________________________________
            From: Disqus
            To: hike110@yahoo.com
            Sent: Monday, December 26, 2011 7:18 PM
            Subject: [trscoop] Re: Just days after 9/11, Ron Paul blames America

            Disqus generic email template

            Kris Smith wrote, in response to aZjimbo:
            Nothing is ALWAYS America’s fault. My country is not always wrong, my country is not always right. Link to comment

          • http://twitter.com/PoeAllen Allen Poe

            Kris, RARELY is word you should learn. Just put it between not, and wrong. You are the country. If you detest the USA, leave it. We are what we vote for. If you voted for JFK, you loved the Viet Nam war, he started it for real. The majority wins, if you disagree so much, leave. Canada is full of people like you. The natives don’t like them, either.

      • bobemakk

        anonoped, so the US is at fault for 9/11? That is what Ron Paul claims. Obama bows to muslims, is that what Ron Paul/the oddball will do next? Thanks for your service, but please get real.

      • Anonymous

        Why serve a flag you feel is destroying the peace of the world? Why provide material support for a country you hate?

      • Anonymous

        So what, I’m a American and a vet too, that and 2 bucks will get you a cup of coffee.. (some places)

    • http://twitter.com/Zederok Zederok Alario

      I am a lifetme commited Con servative, 8 year vetern of the Army and the first Gulf War, a 17 year vetern of Law Enforcement and a member of the NRA, Oath Keepers, and 101st Airborne Association and I support Ron Paul 100%. He is right on so many issues, and you neo cons who think he is so bad on Foriegn Policy then why is everything he says articulated my intelligence from the CIA/NSA and garners the most support from our military.

      • http://twitter.com/PoeAllen Allen Poe

        Zed, could you be wrong about this one thing?

      • Constance

        You served all those years, and apparently dedicated your life to it, and yet you call us neocons? You see, anytime someone posts a lifetime worth of military or law enforcement experience, and then starts insulting me by calling me a neocon, I stop listening. First of all, I doubt very much you even understand what the term truly means. If you want people to take you seriously, stop insulting them. Particularly if you have spent a life doing exactly what you are now insulting.

  • Anonymous

    Ru Paul has no chance and btw, F YOU Ru Paul you mother f+%ckin pos fraud!

    Tea:-)

  • Anonymous

    What’s also really SAD/PATHETIC is that one of the big reasons for Herman Cain getting the final nail in his coffin was his lack of knowledge of foreign affairs and yet RON PAUL’s opinions on foreign affairs are not only ignorant but DANGEROUS to America and the world,HUH!!!

    • Anonymous

      How is Ron Paul ignorant and dangerous to America. You’ll need to cite examples or most people with think that you’re for invading other countries for something they might do in the future.

      With logic like that, you or your children will be drafted to the front line sooner not later.

    • http://twitter.com/RSPW_DEP David Powell

      The media isn’t getting too into this because if he got nominated, the false stereotype that the GOP is the “racist party” would be locked in forever. It would all be talked up in the general election.

  • http://no-apologies-round2.blogspot.com/ AmericanborninCanada

    Ron Paul is very ignorant which makes him dangerous, and I hope some of the massive ignorant following will wake up.

    • http://twitter.com/JonathanPhilbec Jonathan Philbeck

      Paul is the worst brand of Ideologue, he will re-write history, facts and appeal to Moral Relativism/Equivalence to excuse Bin Laden, and indict and blame America……all because America has never followed his Utopian Foreign policy Ideology.

      • Anonymous

        Ron Paul is not excusing Bin Laden. What he is doing is pointing to Bin Laden’s own writings for his reasons for attacking America. But ,hey, don’t take my word for it. You can see for yourself in this ABC interview of Bin Laden from 1998 where he clearly says we are occupying Saudi Arabia.

        http://abcnews.go.com/2020/video/osama-bin-laden-interview-1998-13506629

        As an awesome piece of desert. Here’s Mr. Neocon warmonger himself Paul Wolfowitz saying that we need to withdrawal from Saudi Arabia asap or the attacks will resume.

        http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/920467/posts

        And we all but abandoned the base.

        • orthodoxyordeath

          Stop spamming everyone with the RuPaul garbage. You’re wrong, do some research on Islam and it’s long, long, violent history. It started in the 7th century, in blood, wiping out whole Jewish tribes (Banu Qurayza), innocent peasants and cities who would not accept his word.

          • http://twitter.com/Zederok Zederok Alario

            Islam is a evil religion I will admit, but im pretty sure you dont see Indonesia, Turkey, Mauritania or Pakistan attacking us, hell Pakistan has a nuke and they havnt attacked us or their mortal enemies: India. So your point is moot! Use diplomacy and quit nation building and begin trading with them and sooner then later their whako fundies will be defeated from within.

            • http://twitter.com/PoeAllen Allen Poe

              Zed, truly naive. Read daily biased news, and even they report all 3 have aided and abetted. Can’t you see, even after 3 years of Ob, talking is just wasted on these people. I suggest you read of Teddy Roosevelt’s foreign policy.

            • orthodoxyordeath

              Allen is correct. All of those have aided and abetted terrorism, which is a proxy war. Furthermore, the reason those nations, or any nations don’t attack us outright, is because they’re too weak. See the First Gulf War. We can steamroll any of those nations in a day or two. It’s easier for them to sit back and let the terrorists do the work.

        • http://twitter.com/PoeAllen Allen Poe

          Bin Laden, if you admit truth, became terrorist because the USA ruined his view of Mecca, from his house, at 17. Quit trying to slew history to your bias.

  • Anonymous

    3000 people died that day, Ron Paul is justifying there murder. I don’t care what the terrorists supposed reasons were, wrong is wrong. Call evil for what it is.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000220027383 Troy La Mana

      He did not justify the attack. He gave an explanation of why they did it, from their perspective.

      • http://www.therightscoop.com/ The Right Scoop

        Bull Crap. He’s saying that their response is reasonable, considering what we’ve been doing to them.

        • Anonymous

          Exactly it really is sad that RuPaul has done so well in the polls.

          Shows a lack of respect and ignorance on the exceptionalism of America.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000220027383 Troy La Mana

          You are bias so your opinion is tainted.

          • Anonymous

            So who the F are you ? Snow White??

        • http://twitter.com/PoeAllen Allen Poe

          It is called rationalnization. No one can be bad. BS. Evil is as evil does. They were evil, and have not changed. Only now, they have their dead in their own back yard. Ob is trying to save his brothers as hard as he can. Don’t forget, we made them billionaires.

      • Anonymous

        Blaming us IS giving them justification in my book.

        • http://twitter.com/PoeAllen Allen Poe

          A reason is not justification. Justification requires a error. Just because they believe they are right does not make them right.

      • http://waxingerratic.wordpress.com/ ECM

        You’re really going to have to do better than that.

    • Anonymous

      So you’re okay with America murdering 10’s of thousands of Arabs for decades but when they strike back it’s their fault?

      I’ll call something evil alright but you might not like it.

      Here’s what the “War On Terror” is doing these days.
      http://reason.com/blog/2011/12/22/little-girl-mutilated-by-obamas-drone-wa

      • Anonymous

        Oh for shits sake! Get real.

        It was *American* ingenuity and technology that discovered the Middle Eastern oil reserves and that brought those reserves to market. The Saudis, Iranians, and Iraqis would still be wandering from oasis to oasis on camels if it weren’t for American know-how. We were the ones who made the bin Ladens wealthy. America is the reason that those countries have roads and bridges, water and sewer systems, major cities with modern infrastructure, cars, shopping malls and hotels, all of it. And we have PAID for it too. When did Saudi ever *give* the US a single barrel of oil?

        The hatred comes from within their own system. It stems from the huge class and religious inequalities in these countries. The Saudi royals/upper class are well-known for their lavish lifestyles including drinking, drugs, and using prostitutes – glaring violations of islamic law. Meanwhile the average citizen is forced into a strict observance of islamic law by the Mutaween, the Saudi “religious police”. Long story short – to keep their heads and keep the peace within the country the government blames society’s problems on the influence of the “infidels” and encourages fatwas and jihad. Try googling some of this and you’ll find out the real causes of the unrest. Here’s just a taste:

        http://abcnews.go.com/2020/News/story?id=169246&page=1#.Tvk2eHrQdkx

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutaween

        Unless of course you’d still like to believe the BS Ron Paul is spouting.

        • Anonymous

          3seven77 wins the prize!!!

          What he states is full of the real deal…

          The Saudi Royal’s and elite have to give something to the poor and destitute so they give them HATE of American Infidels…
          meanwhile the elites continue right on living the good life on our dime (oil money) and the have-nots can blame their miserable existence on us, the American infidel…

          It’s the same game the politicians in America play, no different.. just a few modifications to the script..

          good post 7….

      • http://twitter.com/PoeAllen Allen Poe

        How many Caucasions have the Muslims killed in 5000 years. Just 2000 years ago they murdered, all Jewish chidren under 2, to kill Christ. They joined Hitler, what does it take you to understand? Go join them, I understand they like your type.

      • Anonymous

        What America is to blame for the Arab’s problems?

        Over the past 50 years how much money has America paid to Arab states?
        What has happened to all that money?
        Why is the Arab man on the street so f’ing poor?

        Don’t blame America for the Arab worlds problems. They could all be living in Disney land with the money we have sent over there…

        Gee, I wonder where all that money went???

  • Anonymous

    Now that there is no Mrs. Bialek nor Mrs. White, the press has discovered that Ron Paul was already for several years mentally impaired. Isn’t it a little bit too late? The press has been playing with us and watching debate after debate waiting for the right moment to release vital information against the grumpy old man. We were told that Cain was not fit for foreign policy, but what about Paul? He is not fit for anything but to watch the Muppet Show from the balcony!
    Mr. Paul sounds during his speech, two weeks after the nightmare attacks, like a heartless man. He is not even shocked and he fully understands the decadence of Osama Bin Laden. He sounds to me like the Devil’s advocate who is trying to defend his client with stories about a painful childhood and lack of love. He fully understands the hatred of our enemy and is convinced that we are to blame for what happened.
    He sounds to me like Obama. What else can I say. To vote for Obama was a terrible mistake. To vote for Ron Paul would be a second terrible mistake.

    • http://no-apologies-round2.blogspot.com/ AmericanborninCanada

      Very well said Susitna.

  • Anonymous

    Uh, excuse me Dr. Paul but they don’t hate us because we are free and prosperous. They commit Jihad against ALL that do not follow Islam and Sharia law, all over the world not just the US.

    Geez, does this guy really believe EVERYTHING is OUR fault? He is so out of touch, I can’t imagine him being our POTUS.

    • Anonymous

      If that was true the Earth would be in open warfare. There are billions of Muslims. Billions.

      They outnumber the next largest group with an invisible sky friend by 1.5 to 1.

      You’re self-deluded, you’d do better to actually pay attention to what your government is doing to its money supply than what a bunch of brown people on the other side of the earth are or are not doing.

      • Anonymous

        I did not say “all” muslims”. I was referring to those that believe in Jihad. There are plenty of folks here in the US as well that are pushing for Sharia Law and believe in Jihad.

        BTW Anon (whoever you are), we try to be respectful on this website and not insult those that post here.

        • Anonymous

          Where did I insult someone? Saying you’re self deluded? That’s not an insult, that’s an observation.

          You’ve deluded yourself into believing the Neocon Trotskite war propaganda. The quickest way to prove that is watching one of Ron Paul’s hour+ editorial board interviews. Concord Monitor and Des Moines Register interviews were great (the open condensation from the neocons doing the interviews not withstanding).

          • Anonymous

            And you’ve deluded yourself into thinking Ron Paul is smart.

          • orthodoxyordeath

            It’s simply a fact that Muslims that actually obey the word of Allah and the Qur’an *will* hate America and anyone who is free and not Muslim.

            • http://twitter.com/PoeAllen Allen Poe

              Like reference to Koran, where it states kill all others. Anything like rape ok. the only reason the whole world is not Muslim, is only for lack of ability.

              • orthodoxyordeath

                That and the fact you can’t build an army to conquer when you keep detonating yourself…

      • http://twitter.com/PoeAllen Allen Poe

        Wake up! The Earth is in open warfare. Take that money you are saving, and go somewhere, far away. See the Muslims slaughtering the non Muslims, all colors. Talk about self delusions, you are a fine example.

        • orthodoxyordeath

          People just don’t see it. Muslims kill non-Muslims and infidel sympathizers EVERY DAY! You cannot find any other religion, Christians, Jews, Hindus, anyone that has a base of believers who kill people every day in the name of their supreme deity.

  • Anonymous

    Thinking of it, I have never seen Ron Paul showing empathy for our troops or for the families of those who lost their lives on 9/11. The man is simply incapable of sympathy. He would rather blame you for your trouble according to his twisted belief that you deserve it and called it upon yourself through prior actions. His foreign policy of making chickens out of us is beyond comparison. Either the man is devoid of a common sense compass or is willfully ignorant!

    • Anonymous

      So you consider other countries that don’t invade and occupy other countries as chickens?

      I’d say the willfully ignorant charge stands but only if you look in a mirror.

      • Anonymous

        The war was waged on legitimate authority. Article 1 section 8 discusses the powers given to the legislative branch and says nothing about the executive branch and their right to request force. The executive branch can request anything they want. It does not mean that the legislative branch has to honor a request. The Authorization For Use Of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution was a piece of legislation that authorized the President to use force. It was written by Congress and voted on by Congress. Then carried out by the President. They did not shrink back in voting for the resolution. They chose to vote for the resolution based upon the information at the time. Every one of them had a choice to make. An argument of a declaration of war vs an authorization to use force is one of semantics. It does not violate our forefathers intentions. Their fear was that a single person in the form of the President could wage war without the approval of the people. That is why they gave this power to Congress.

        http://thesteadyconservative.com/wordpress/2010/01/28/ron-paul-and-foreign-policy/

      • http://twitter.com/PoeAllen Allen Poe

        I hope DEM Muslims are paying you by the word.

  • Anonymous

    Has anyone heard Paul condemn Islamist’s for their slaughter of innocent life the way he condemns the US for having an (an evil) interest in oil?

    • Anonymous

      Please quote Ron Paul saying America has an evil interest in oil.

      Unless you’re just willfully ignorant or outright trying to libel Ron Paul. Either way, you’re lack of quote to follow shows everyone something about you.

      • KenInMontana

        And you are done here, that’s not censorship it is just the reward for achieving the award for the most logical fallacies in one thread.

        • Anonymous

          Thanks Ken. I thought we were going to need to spray Raid around here. Cockroaches, you know.

          • Anonymous

            I think he managed to insult everyone that normally posts comments here. I think he had a typo in his name and put the D at the end instead of after Anon.

            Tehehe!

      • http://twitter.com/PoeAllen Allen Poe

        Anon , evil is as evil does. Take a bow.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Kris-Smith/100000135417264 Kris Smith

    Notice that since people condemn Paul for his explanation, there is not a single defense for the nationalistic claim that they hate us “because we are free.” Even the 9/11 comission report indicates that out policy has something to do with our policy…while not lending credence at all to the idea that they hate us because of our freedom:

    Yousef’s instant notoriety as the mastermind of the 1993 World Trade Center Bombing inspired K[halid] S[heikh] M[ohanned] to become involved in planning attacks against the United States. By his own account, KSM’s animus toward the United States stemmed not from his experiences there as a student, but rather from his violent disagreement with U.S. foreign policy favoring Israel.” (The 9/11 Commission Report, pages 203, 204)

    Now does this mean we should not support Israel? No, but the Comission does more to back up Paul’s version of events more than it does Bush’s (who was the first to say they hate us because we are free.)

    • KenInMontana

      The problem with the report’s characterization of KSM’s motives ignores his expressed hatred for what he stated (while here as a student) was a amoral, decadent society that was in direct contradiction to Muslim values and traditions. He confirmed these views to his interviewers and these views were also confirmed by those that knew him while he was attending college here. The fact that Paul continues to parrot the “excuse” for the 9/11 attacks that Al Qaeda and Bin Laden released (which is what the CIA paper quoted and the Commission parroted) does nothing to further his cause with those that find his expressed view as naive, to put it mildly. KSM was and is a devious, psychotic, fundamentalist as well as a self serving opportunist. He saw this plan as a way to further his own standing within not only Al Qaeda, but as a means to place himself at the head of his own organization, and become the ultimate terrorist on par with one of his idols “Carlos the Jackal”. That in and of itself should give some insight into his make up for any student of history.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Kris-Smith/100000135417264 Kris Smith

        I understand, but lot liking a society is not synonymous with a desire to declare war on it for that particular reason; I don’t like Cuban society, but I don’t want to declare war on them. But I could be wrong.

        If he indicated that he wanted to declare war because of our society, could you please link a news article with the quote?

        • KenInMontana

          http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/para/ksm.htm

          http://www.scpr.org/news/2009/11/18/8142/khalid-sheikh-mohammeds-isolated-us-college-days/

          There are a couple to get you started, the rest is out there if you want to take the time, I don’t think Scoop would appreciate a series of links swallowing the thread. Besides, you stated that you are a student, you’re capable of research. Fundamentalist Muslim ideology is reactionary in the extreme, there have been terrorist attacks and targeted killings throughout Europe for all manner of perceived “offenses”. You are making a fundamental mistake in your thinking by trying to equate your rationale with theirs with this, “I don’t like Cuban society, but I don’t want to declare war on them.”, you cannot superimpose your moral and political views on their reasoning and expect it to make sense. This is the most common mistake made by “educated” minds in trying to rationalize the actions taken by individuals who have grown up immersed in a society whose value system is so different from our own. Just because “you” wouldn’t do something does not make it inconceivable for someone else. There are likely all sorts of things that I would do without “batting an eye” that you would likely find “humanly and morally reprehensible” or even inconceivable.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Kris-Smith/100000135417264 Kris Smith

            I wondered why the first link looked so similar to what I have read before…then I opened up my copy of the 9/11 Commission Report, and realized it is word for word taken from the report…..Hey, I quoted the report, and plenty here said it was not trustworthy… That makes me wonder….

            In fact, the link excepts the same chapter on KSM that I quoted, it just stops short of the quote I gave…. Again, it makes me wonder..

            The second link doesn’t do much. It mentions speculation that “experience” in America may have put him on the road to terrorism, but…a more complete quote from your second link contradicts it:

            Zitawi learned a lesson, but what did Khalid Sheikh Mohammed draw from his time in America? The conventional wisdom has long been that the best way to get people overseas to like the U.S. is to have them experience it for themselves. And yet, a recently released CIA report claims “Khalid Sheikh Mohammed’s limited and negative experiences in the United States — including a short stay in jail — almost certainly helped propel him on his path to become a terrorist.”

            But the truth is, it seems that Mohammed never really experienced America. He kept himself apart and then found what he wanted to find. And it appeared Mohammed couldn’t get out of America fast enough. He finished his engineering degree in two-and-a-half years.

            • KenInMontana

              I have never disputed the commission’s report wholesale, what I have disputed is the interpretation of that report and the CIA paper that quoted Al Qaeda websites and OBL’s propaganda statement by others as the end all be all and their sole reason for the attacks. That is a dangerous, disingenuous and naive point of view, to politicize it is despicable. The site Global Security . org (spacing deliberate) has much more on KSM than just the transcript, take the time to look over all the information out there, rather than thinking I am affirming your position. But just like one of your professor’s I am not going to do your research for you, that you have to do on your own. I will give you a piece of advice a very astute Historian friend of mine gave me, “Don’t stop digging just because you found a piece of something that you feel confirms your theory, put your bias in your back pocket and keep digging, you may be surprised at what you find.”

            • KenInMontana

              Just a couple of thoughts that did not get into my comment;
              In regards to KSM and his associates while he was attending school, why would you isolate and insulate yourself from a culture when visiting their country?

              One possible answer is this, because you do not want to weaken your own tenuous predisposition towards that society. Often “sunshine” is in fact the best disinfectant when it comes to dispelling myths.

              Take the time to look at the statements of the Islamic Fundamentalist movement, If I were a betting man I would wager that a lack of morality comes up twice as often as any mention of foreign policy. The reason? Calling someone immoral or amoral is a concept that is a whole lot easier for the masses to grasp than the intricate and convoluted subject of foreign policy.

              • http://www.facebook.com/people/Kris-Smith/100000135417264 Kris Smith

                I can understand…but I did similar isolationism when I lived in Mexico, at least for a while. With me, it had more to do with ethnocentrism. (And I did consider some aspects of the immediate culture “amoral,” or rather “immoral.” The drinking, for example.) I didn’t really care to “experience” the culture. So there can several reasons for that.

      • http://www.therightscoop.com/ The Right Scoop

        Very well said. It’s basically the same reasons that want to govern their own countries with sharia. They hate the West and what it stands for.

        • Anonymous

          Scoop – For those that don’t quite “get it”, maybe they should take the time to watch the link you have posted here “Islam: What the West Needs to Know”. I saw it first, I think, on Frontpagemag. There are SO many sources for information on Islam I don’t understand the ignorance of so many.

          A couple of years ago I loaned Ayann Hirsi Ali’s first book “Infidel” to a friend of mine hoping she would gain some insight into Islam from someone who experienced it first hand. I thought if she saw it from a woman’s point of view she would start to understand. She couldn’t finish the book. I guess there are people that grew up in the MSM bubble and it’s too difficult for them to grasp the evil that is opposite to our freedoms and values.

        • KenInMontana

          Thanks, it has always amazed me how so many overlook the number of times the word “decadent” comes up in the tirades of the extremists.

          • http://twitter.com/PoeAllen Allen Poe

            Hitler liked it too, everytime he did something evil. coincidence?

        • mike morrison

          Just read “Muslim Mafia” for a detailed description of the Muslim Brotherhood and their goals that include a multi-decade approach to taking over the entire world, including the USA.

      • StNikao

        Right – evil is cancerous and killing can create a bloodlust or blood thirst, vengeance, conflict and anger can become addictive, obsessions that take possession and drive a person or group. Like serial killers…

        Only God has the power to conquer it…like alcohol and drugs, we can’t do it on our own.

        Scripture talks about the struggle between Israel and its enemies and its own sinfulness. When Israel would fall into sin, Egypt, Assyria, Babylon (Islam) would come to take them captive until they repented and returned to God. Then they would rediscover The Book of the Law and be set free again.

        Isaiah talks about how Israel could overcome both internal and external enemies, sins of the heart and invading nations are overcome. Isaiah 31:8-9 says Islam will be overcome by the sword, not the sword of man, but of God (God’s Word is the Sword of the Spirit). The battle is always spiritual and we fight with spiritual weapons. Repentance is the first and most necessary weapon.

        • KenInMontana

          The only thing in your post I would quibble with would be your association of Babylon at the time they sacked Jerusalem with Islam, as Islam did not exist at that time.

          • http://twitter.com/PoeAllen Allen Poe

            You think the Koran was written yesterday? The Koran, like the bible, was written over centuries. I think they were written at the same pace, started at the same time. Precepts are always precepts. Call it what you may, it is ‘Kill the Jew”.

            • KenInMontana

              No I don’t think the Koran was written yesterday (not sure how you extrapolated that from my comment). However Babylon finally collapsed and was abandoned in 275 BC. When the Parthians took control of Mesopotamia in about 141 BC all that remained were abandoned ruins. The region was referred to, by some, as Babylon until the Arab Conquest in the mid 7th century at which time they “officially” dissolved it as a province.

              The conquest was recorded in the Book of Kings, which according to Jewish tradition was authored by Jeremiah, which predates both the Bible and the Koran. If we go by your thought, that the two were written about the same time, then The Book of Kings would predate them both by somewhere north of 1200 years, if indeed Jeremiah was the author as the sack of Jerusalem by Babylon is generally placed at or about 586 BC. Which precedes the “accepted” year of Muhammad’s birth (a pox be upon him), 570 AD, by near-enough-makes-no-difference, 1000 years.

        • http://twitter.com/PoeAllen Allen Poe

          Have you ever heard or read of a Muslim stating he was sorry?

    • http://no-apologies-round2.blogspot.com/ AmericanborninCanada

      I don’t trust the 9/11 commission. Most of those on it were anti Bush anyway, many of them ex clintonistas who like most of the left are anti Israel. Even if I were to ignore that, just the fact that Jamie Gorelick sat on that commission gives me reason to not trust it. She’s the one who created “the wall” between intellegence agencies and investigation agencies under Reno.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Kris-Smith/100000135417264 Kris Smith

        I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure that the committee was half republican, half democrat.

        • http://no-apologies-round2.blogspot.com/ AmericanborninCanada

          It was, but there were and are some with R’s after their names who were just as anti Bush policies and pro palestinian than there are those with Ds.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Kris-Smith/100000135417264 Kris Smith

            I guess we can take the third route and say that both Paul and Bush are wrong.–Many times, the truth is never black and white anyway.

            I just got through reading an article that suggests that:

            http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/2006/09/whatwerethecausesof911/

            • http://no-apologies-round2.blogspot.com/ AmericanborninCanada

              We can look back and criticize or praise Bush’s decisions until Jesus comes back- but it won’t change history. Personally, I think Bush did what he thought was the best course for various reasons, during a time when most people didn’t have a clue what Islam was and when the country was shocked, angry, and hurting.

              Did he act perfectly, not by a long shot, but I think he, and most of congress at the time knew that a swift and strong response was the solution. This is a far cry from those such as Paul who blames this country’s past actions or inactions on what they did to us. I think it was Toon who said it- they find reasons for why muslims hate us, and they muslims agree. They never have to say their real reasons and people like Paul are providing another reason that puts the responsibility on The USA, while giving the Middle East victim status. (Well said Toon!)

              • http://www.facebook.com/people/Kris-Smith/100000135417264 Kris Smith

                I think Bush was sincere in the long term too, so I meant no harsh criticism against him in. —I think that if both Bush and Paul are wrong, then Usama Bin Laden and Khalid Sheikh Mohammad did what they did simply because they were terrorists. Terrorists don’t really need a reason if they have no real cause at all.

                • http://no-apologies-round2.blogspot.com/ AmericanborninCanada

                  I can agree with that Kris. I do believe they are simply terrorists, but with a specific agenda that many on the left and right don’t want to believe, and that is simply to spread Islam and bring nations under Sharia. They will not rest (although they may spend decades in planning things) until they achieve their goals or die (taking as many with them) trying.

                • http://twitter.com/PoeAllen Allen Poe

                  Terrorist always have killing drive, and a reason,it does not have to be rational. Otherwise no living bombs. Muslims can always fall back on the Koran. They do not live it, but it is a convient truth, much like drinking alcohol, or dating white girls. I do not believe a word OB has said about Bush, because he is a proven liar. Any excutive must believe his staff. You are not wrong to act on it. I remember how the media laughed at every WMD found. Their mistake was to show it. Much like the VN war, I know the media will lie, about anything. My last word, have we had a second 9/11?

              • Anonymous

                Thanks. You are right about the 911 commission it was distorted from the get go. An equal amount of politicians from each side of the aisle does not make it an honest or true account of the facts.

                The fact that Jamie Gorelick was so large a figure in that commission shows the bias that was forged in it’s decision. Her history of creating the wall of separation that you mentioned is as important as where she went after the commission.

                Bush did the right thing in the aftermath of 9-11, congress agreed including democrats. They changed their minds after it was politically expedient to so and demonized Bush and the republicans to prepare for the next election.

                • http://no-apologies-round2.blogspot.com/ AmericanborninCanada

                  Thanks yourself toon! :-D

                • Anonymous

                  I really hope you had a great Christmas. :-)

                • http://no-apologies-round2.blogspot.com/ AmericanborninCanada

                  Yes we had a great Christmas! How about you?!

                • Anonymous

                  Absolutely wonderful.

                • http://no-apologies-round2.blogspot.com/ AmericanborninCanada

                  Yay! :-D I’m glad toon!

                • http://twitter.com/PoeAllen Allen Poe

                  Right on. Thx. Carry on! :-D.

            • http://twitter.com/PoeAllen Allen Poe

              Always forgive and forget what the enemy has done, so he can do it again. Call your heros villians, but you change nothing. Try to say evil is good or vice versa, and you reveal, what Mark Twain said. Bush was a great president, paul a nut. Live with it.

  • Anonymous

    look he would be great as sec of interior or something, making sure states rights enforced, but for potus no friggin way.

  • Anonymous

    C’mon! Paul is right here. It’s all our fault…

    …for existing. We should have killed ourselves, making these acts unnecessary.

    • Anonymous

      World history tells the tale, all 2000 years of the recorded stuff, and the modern blame game marches on………….. };-)

  • Anonymous

    We give the Islamists the reasons for why they hate us, and they just agree. They never have to say their real reasons and if they did the media wouldn’t pass it on to us anyway, it wouldn’t fit their template. Paul is simply providing another reason that puts the responsibility on The USA, while giving the Middle East victim status.

    Like the grade school bully, who the principal excuses and keeps sending back to class without discipline because he comes from a broken family.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000220027383 Troy La Mana

    Nothing wrong with what he said. Just an explanation of the thought process that led to the attack.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Kris-Smith/100000135417264 Kris Smith

      True..and somehow people get branded as unpatriotic because they agree with him…I object to that.. Agreeing with him doesn’t make one unpatriotic..It just makes one non-nationalistic. People often confuse nationalism with patriotism.

      • http://twitter.com/PoeAllen Allen Poe

        Like you. Nationalism means to support your country, no matter what. Patriotism is to fight for your country, to survive. Agreeing with Hitler makes you un patriotic. Agreeing with an apologiser, is a traitor. Apoligise to Hitler for us, destroying his country. Better yet, go with Paul on a suicide mission. Go to Iran, and get on your knees. They will stop all bombings. sure.

  • Anonymous

    Not to oversimplify things but the reason the radical muslims hate us so much is because we stand with Israel, instead of their forefather Ishmael. It has nothing to do with what we do but who we are.

    • http://no-apologies-round2.blogspot.com/ AmericanborninCanada

      That and they view the West as Christian- yet look at all the garbage which comes from hollywood. Our society is not exactly a Christian one any more. But yes, I agree C.

      • Anonymous

        good point!

      • http://twitter.com/PoeAllen Allen Poe

        Why then, do they attack all countries?

    • AddisonDewitt

      It is a spiritual battle…and of course that was foretold long ago in God’s Word—Satan hates the Jews and thus any and all who support her ( he hates ALL that God loves which includes all men)..Islam and these countries that hate Israel and want her vaporized are tools of Satan and are demonically influenced and inspired.

    • Anonymous

      As a poly sci teacher used to say “Wrong god, wrong politics is why they hate us.

    • http://twitter.com/PoeAllen Allen Poe

      Reread Koran.

  • Anonymous

    Where to start……

    Just because someone or a commission says something doesn’t make it so. I prefer to look at first hand sources and what they say. If you really read and view the material they spew out on the internet, it is plainly obvious it isn’t about us “occupying” Saudi Arabia, killing Muslims, desecrating the holy lands, or some other BS reason, it is about the spread of sharia around the globe.

    They hate the west because it is prosperous, despite the fact that sharia is not in place. It is difficult to subjugate people under the thumb of oppression when it is plainly visible that what they offer is only hardship, pain and death. The world trade center was a symbol of that which they could not compete against, and thus, it had to be destroyed.

    If it was about killing Muslims then Saddam Hussein should have been enemy number one, for he killed far more than any one else. However, we know that not to be the case, sure he had enemies, but they did not fly planes into his palaces.

    Broken down into a non-PC explanation: it is about killing Jews and infidels, bringing all of the world under Islam, and martyring yourself to paradise.

    • http://no-apologies-round2.blogspot.com/ AmericanborninCanada

      Well said!

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Kris-Smith/100000135417264 Kris Smith

      If it was about killing Muslims then Saddam Hussein should have been enemy number one, for he killed far more than any one else. However, we know that not to be the case, sure he had enemies, but they did not fly planes into his palaces.

      Logically by itself, yes. But considering that the United States used to embrace Saddam Hussein, that may have affected that particular point of view:

      http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/press.htm

      The information in the link was declassified in 2003, but it occurred in the 1980s.

      • Anonymous

        So, the Muslims did not attack Hussein because he was supported by the US at one point in time? According to RP logic, that should have made him enemy number one +. However, that did not happen.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Kris-Smith/100000135417264 Kris Smith

          Considering how Muslims in Iraq celebrated when he was taken out…he was really high on the enemy list. It was hard, however, for them to try and take him out when he was able to put down resistance that DID arise. They tried, and failed.

          • Anonymous

            Yes they did celebrate in Iraq. But, the terrorist forces outside of Iraq could have easily done to him what was done to the US, but didn’t. Why? Because killing of Muslims was not the driver. Also many celebrating at the downfall were Shiite and not Sunni. The Sunni minority was oppressing the Shiite majority. They kill each other with great frequency, further eroding the US killing them argument.

            • http://www.facebook.com/people/Kris-Smith/100000135417264 Kris Smith

              Yeah well, considering how easily and cruely he was able to put down any rebellion (a rebellion that would have had the same technology as any terrorist groups would have had at the time), would there have been a point to terrorists attacking him? He would have done the same to them easily, and they would have known it.– Besides, terrorists do fight against these kinds of men such as Saddam Hussein….as we have seen in Lybia. Al Queda had ties to the rebellion against Qaddafi.

              • Anonymous

                I am talking about a 9/11 type of attack, not an insurrection, revolution, or Coup d’état. The argument is that if killing Muslims is a driver in 9/11 attacks, then Saddam should have been on the top. You can’t have it both ways, it is either a driver or it isn’t. My contention is that it is a scapegoat used by Jihadists that gullible westerners enable.

                • http://www.facebook.com/people/Kris-Smith/100000135417264 Kris Smith

                  Or the driver could be that we have a tendency to interfear in their feuds whether they like it or not…while Saddam (as hated as he was) was dealing in his own region, not because of killing Muslims per say.

                • Anonymous

                  Can we say the Iran Iraq war?
                  Let’s get over the PC stuff here. Killing Muslims is not a problem until it becomes an advantage for it to be one. Shiites killing Sunni, Sunni killing Sunni, Shiite killing Shiite, Sunni killing Shiite, happens all of the time with bombings, purges, tribal conflicts, and a multitude of other reasons, and methods. Do not expect me to accept this as a reason until they stop killing each other in volumes two orders of magnitude greater than anything perpetrated in a US combat scenario.

                  So stop the rationalization of these pathetic and demonic barbarians actions now. And demand that our leaders remove their heads from the direct visual personal proctoscopy position, and get their blood methane levels down to less than the hallucinogenic effects range. The added oxygen may even allow for some clarity of thought. A novel concept!

                • http://www.facebook.com/people/Kris-Smith/100000135417264 Kris Smith

                  Iran and Iraq was a feud between Iran and Iraq. That was not so much a holy war so much as it was a war for expansionism which turned out to be absolutely pointless since the border remained unchanged. But again, it is the same general region, true?

                • Anonymous

                  No Iran only declared it a holy war, and sent hundreds of thousands to their deaths. Saddam used nerve gas on them, and did the Muslims blink and eye? No. If the US had used nerve gas what would be the reaction? This is the true test of this theory. And we all know the answer. A few prisoners are humiliated in Iraq and the Muslim world is on fire and 100’s die. Muslims kill 39 Christians and all is quiet.

                • http://www.facebook.com/people/Kris-Smith/100000135417264 Kris Smith

                  From Iran’s point of view, yes. I was taking it from Saddam Hussein’s who wanted to expand. And last time I checked, Saddam was the invader, so I would give that point of view plenty of weight on the reasons for war.

      • Anonymous

        You ignored the main point of what he said. The main reason radical Islam tries to kill us is to spread sharia. Just like it’s in the Iranian Constitution to spread jihad as Bachmann educated RuPaul during the last debate.

        It has nothing to do with occupying their land or any of that other BS. Stop buying into the Hate America RuPaul propaganda!

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Kris-Smith/100000135417264 Kris Smith

          If it has to do with spreading shariah law, then we can simply do what we failed to do to prevent 9/11. For one thing, we can do background checks. We don’t need to attack and attack. And even if our invading and occupying their land is not the reason, it certainly will not help.

          • Anonymous

            So your answer is to allow the terrorists to have their training grounds and to let Iran have the bomb?

            Brilliant!!

            • http://www.facebook.com/people/Kris-Smith/100000135417264 Kris Smith

              Not at all. Is your thinking really this black and white? I say security starts at home, not abroad. That does not mean there can be zero intervention; If Iran were to threaten us with a bomb, then I would take that seriously.

              • orthodoxyordeath

                Hypothetically speaking if someone tries to stop us from doing something that affects the safety of the American citizen base, we point a couple of rocket launchers their way and let the weapons speak for themselves. We’re a superpower, and we should use that status for us and our allies.

                • http://www.facebook.com/people/Kris-Smith/100000135417264 Kris Smith

                  So you are saying if someone tried to stop us from doing anything, we should threaten them? –You realize our threatening them would only cause more instability, don’t you?

                  Wait a minute, we always try to paint the Iranians of doing the exact same thing you are suggesting we do. So it’s okay when we do it, but not okay if Iran does it? Gotcha!

                • orthodoxyordeath

                  “So you are saying if someone stops us from doing anything, they are impeding our safety, and we threaten them?”

                  I didn’t say “anything.” Don’t try that garbage of taking things out of context. You asked about other nations trying to stop us from a project like building a nuke. Depending on who it is, say it’s the UN, we defund them and evict them from NYC. If it’s Iran or Pakistan, we point a few missiles there way and just let those speak for themselves. “Peace through strength.” It’s the Reagan way that led to the downfall of communism. It can lead to the downfall of Islamists.

                • http://www.facebook.com/people/Kris-Smith/100000135417264 Kris Smith

                  “Pointing missiles” is not peace through strength, that is an attempt at “peace through threats.” And threatening another nation is not going to make a tense situation better. –And again, the reason no other nation would not be legally able to dictate what kind of weapons we should have is because we are a sovereign nation….Unfortunately, even though we do not like it, so is Iran a sovereign nation. THAT is the point I was making.

                • orthodoxyordeath

                  Yes it is “peace through strength.” Ever heard of “Mutual assured destruction?” (MAD) That is pointing nukes at each other and no one setting them off because of the THREAT of retaliation.

                  Iran may be a “sovereign” nation, but the whole rules on sovereignty are murky. If a nation commits a genocide, do the leaders lose their right as sovereign leaders? Should we put our interests behind the garbage rules of “international law?” I would say the answers are to the 1st question yes, to the 2nd, no. If a nation, such as Iran, has a stated interest in wiping Israel off the face of the earth (whom we are allies with), has an interest in the imposition of Sharia law, has a desire for the overthrow of the West, then we have a vested, legitimate interest in taking their nuclear facilities out.

                • http://www.facebook.com/people/Kris-Smith/100000135417264 Kris Smith

                  Well great. If you point nukes at another nation, do not whine if they point right back. If they get paranoid and fire, it would be your threat that made them paranoid.–And lets be honest: If any other nation pointed nukes in our direction, we would be calling for a declaration of war; any other nation would be with in it’s right if we were to do that…..no matter how convinced we are that we are the good guys.

                  Iran may be a “sovereign” nation, but the whole rules on sovereignty are murky.

                  I guess they are only “murky” if we don’t trust the other nation. Those rules do not apply to us, I guess. We have nukes galore..but we cannot allow countries we don’t like to have them, no sir.

                  If a nation commits a genocide, do the leaders lose their right as sovereign leaders? Should we put our interests behind the garbage rules of “international law?”

                  Like him or not, Ahmadinejad as of yet is not guilty of genocide. He’s been accused of “inciting” it, but even if that were true, there has been no result from it.

                  But as for his statements about Israel, I think you should watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onNzrNEFs1E&context=C3db96f6ADOEgsToPDskIQH84NUjKcyk3oj2JxEFcN

                  And, we are not even innocent of committing genocide ourselves.

                • KenInMontana

                  What is now labeled genocide, our ancestors referred to as war.

                • http://twitter.com/PoeAllen Allen Poe

                  Poorly. You are saying lie down and die.

                • http://www.facebook.com/people/Kris-Smith/100000135417264 Kris Smith

                  You obviously have not read where I said we should take an actual threat seriously if it were made. So no, I am not saying “lie down and die.”

          • http://twitter.com/PoeAllen Allen Poe

            Kris, I repeat, has there been another 9/11? I knew about 9/11 in about 1970. It was all about these crazy Iranians killing all these USA flight instructors. I and my flying friends asked why are they doing this? Well, it is clear now. Why didn’t anyone listen? Like OB, the USA cannot really fight, we must talk. He much prefers Muslims to Americans. WE DID NOTHING WRONG. Quit rationalizing. Crazy people are objecting to being xrayed. These Muslims are fighting for their God. Kill them all, or close the opportunities. Or, we could just kill ourselves. Would that satisfy you. That is all that will satisfy them.

  • StNikao

    Ron Paul is right about this much – our foreign policy especially in the Middle East has been awful and inconsistent, disrespectful and dastardly at times – and it changes unpredictably with every administration. In this video, Ron Paul explains that US/UK installed and supported the Shah of Iran, Sadaam Hussein and others. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8NhRPo0WAo

    Our use of foreign aid and arms has been irrational and dishonorable as well. We truly have sinned against the people of the Middle East as we did against the Native Americans and as Britain sinned against the Chinese with the opium trade.

    The West has also exported addictive substances (alcohol, tobacco, etc.) and our ugly side (promiscuity, porn). Really we need to repent.

    However, I VERY STRONGLY DISAGREE with Ron Paul in this:

    ***There is NO possible defense for acts of atrocity/terror as a means to get the US (or any other country) to change its foreign policy and activities in the Middle East.***

    They could refuse to sell us their oil or any other products.
    They could refuse to buy our arms and accept our money.
    They could refuse to trade with us.
    They could refuse to have diplomatic relations and close their borders.
    They could pass laws against trade with the US.
    They could go through the UN and ask for a resolution.

    Terror, violence and atrocity are never excusable are not the civilized way to achieve foreign policy goals.

    Honor killings, child rape, stoning and mutilating females, torturing and killing medical teams, raping nuns, killing minorities, Christians, burning churches, suicide bombings, denying women the right to vote, witness in court, drive, work, have equal rights as men are NOT a respectable humane or excusable way to practice one’s religion.

    Islam sins against its own people and tries to export its values and expand its power in the West. We must stop that. They are also trying to immigrate and conquer other nations.
    We should never condone these actions.Islam needs to be contained and changed by non-military diplomatic means if possible.
    By refusing diplomatic relations, US laws and UN resolutions.
    By refusing to trade or buy their products.
    By refusing to sell them arms or allowing their nations to own property in the US.

  • Anonymous

    We are ALL suffering congressman……shut up!

  • Anonymous

    I personally think Ron Paul is unacceptable as a president. I like his views on the economy but he scares me to death with some of his foreign policy ideas…he also appears to hate Israel and to have been a racist.

  • Anonymous

    I don’t see anything here that isn’t fairly obvious. All he is really saying is that our actions in the middle east inflame anti-American sentiment. Of course it does.

    • Anonymous

      I missed the part where he defended America’s interests at all. Did you hear it?

      • Anonymous

        Our ‘interests’ more often than not seem to include installing puppet governments that we support for a while, and then replace when it seems politically necessary. That’s pretty inflammatory.

        • Anonymous

          That’s not unlike what politicians are doing to us, using us for political expediency for our votes, then dropping us. So I have to agree with you.

          On the other hand the US does more for the benefit of other countries and I think that needs to be acknowledged more.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_3BZAKDF5W2SMOSOKIMVSIEHB7U Brian Drolet

            Maybe every bomb we drop should be accompanied by a second bomb that scatters leaflets around that say “Remember, America is doing this for your own good.”

            • Anonymous

              That’s not a bad idea, maybe we could get the terrorists to accompany their suicide attacks with cute little smiley face stickers too.

          • Anonymous

            I agree that America has done good in the world, but Ron Paul has made a couple of points recently that have made me take a second look at his foreign policy:

            1. A lot of our foreign aid contradicts itself. For example, we give aid to both Israel and also to Israel’s enemies.

            2. When we give aid to a country, there are almost always strings attached which takes away from their sovereignty.

            3. Installing and removing governments in sovereign nations does not generate much good will. Especially when thousands of civilians are killed in the process.

            • Anonymous

              First, our foreign aid recipients need to be measured more thoroughly, I agree, but mostly we need to change our representation in Washington and return to following the constitution.

              Second, If I give money to my neighbor, I am probably going to ask for something in return. Why shouldn’t I? Wait until China starts asking….

              Third, is the US killing the civilians? In most countries that I know of where civilians are being killed they are either Muslim controlled or communist. Are you telling me that the US is killing large populations of people?

              • Anonymous

                1. I completely agree.

                2. I would prefer to not receive money from America for that very reason. Yeah, the China thing could get ugly.

                3. I believe the most common estimates of Iraqi civilian casualties are over 100,000. Did we really create more good than harm?

                • Anonymous

                  How many of those deaths are attributed to American soldiers?

                • Anonymous

                  Unknown.

                • Anonymous

                  I would be willing to guess that most were killed by Islamists. Whenever there are deaths in an another country and the US is involved even our own countrymen are quick to blame us before the facts even come out.

                  Here is an example of Ron Paul blaming us without even a mention of them being in the wrong, not even a mention of his own civilian American brothers and sisters who were murdered.

                  I am quite tired of it.

                • Anonymous

                  Yes, most of them were probably killed by Islamists although the military doesn’t release those numbers.

                  I have to wonder. If we had not intervened in Iraq at all, would the world be any worse off than it is now? We would be 1 Trillion dollars or so less in debt. 100,000 Civilian Iraqis would still be alive. Thousands of US troops would still be alive. Many more thousands of US troops and their families would not be suffering the physical and emotional scars of the war. Those troops could have been put to use guarding our borders, preventing terrorists, drug dealers, and gangs from entering our country.

                  For the record, I do think that we were justified in Afqhanistan tracking down Bin Laden. But we got distracted.

                • http://no-apologies-round2.blogspot.com/ AmericanborninCanada

                  We don’t know that that many Iraqis would still be alive, after all, if it weren’t for the war, Saddam would still be in power with his evil sons who seemed to get such enjoyment out of murdering and maiming their own people. Not to mention Kurds.

                • Anonymous

                  Possibly. I find it hard to justify going after every dictator on the planet though. First, we can’t afford it in terms of monetary cost as well as life. Second, in most cases, the first dictator just gets replaced with another one. Third, we create enemies.

                • Anonymous

                  I think if we were going to go to war we should have fought the damn war and got out.

                • Anonymous

                  Yes, if we must fight, then fight to win. We are capable of winning a war of that size in much, much less than a decade. But only if congress declares war. The decision to invade a sovereign country should not be left to one person, even the Commander in Chief. The constitution is quite clear on that.

                • http://no-apologies-round2.blogspot.com/ AmericanborninCanada

                  It was declared, but because of political correct, Bush derangement syndrom suffering majority- they decided to make the decisions that those on the ground should have made, and started tying the hands of our troops. Not to mention charging our troops with criminal offences for doing the job they should have been doing.

            • http://twitter.com/PoeAllen Allen Poe

              Great, 3 out of 3 wrong.

        • http://twitter.com/PoeAllen Allen Poe

          Diplomacy is the art of smiling, while saying back off. We do not install anything, we deal with what is there, any way we can.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Kris-Smith/100000135417264 Kris Smith

      It doesn’t stroke our nationalism.

  • http://black-avenger-1.livejournal.com/profile VirusX
    • Anonymous

      Seriously, is that for real? If so, it just adds to the reasons why he should NOT be the nominee in addition to his foreign policy delusions. Can you imagine, they tried to say the T-Party was racist, but had no proof. If Paul is up against Obummer, well, let’s just say it’s been well documented over the years. And then this?????

  • Anonymous

    I am back from a wonderful family filled Christmas. Hope everyone had a Merry Christmas. My first video upon returning to the internet brings mixed emotions. Reading the comments is a reminder of what it means to live free by most standards. But at the same time I know that my government has not always been honest with the American people about the under-handed things they have done in foreign policy. But I now believe that the war that we are in is the same war that has been waged since before Christ was born. This Christmas season makes me more focused on this than ever before. Good and evil with man trying to live up to God’s law is the struggle that is still raging. Christians have not been vigilant about our commitment to loving one another and have allowed our government to move away from the Christian foundation that made this country exceptional. The American people are not represented in the government. I do not blame the American people for what the government has done. I do feel that our government’s foreign policy is suspect for being involved in the middle east in the manner that they have for the last century. Ron Paul is not totally wrong but he is not totally right. I also do not feel that he would be an acceptable POTUS.

    • http://twitter.com/PoeAllen Allen Poe

      Sorry to upset you, but doing things in secret is not underhanded. If we had advertized the a bomb, the carrying ship would have been sunk days ealier. Sorry, you are dead wrong, even GW had to do somethings in secret, until after the fact. I blame the American people totally for what the government did, they did what the people told them to do. therefore everything you blame the government for, is blaming youself. Welcome to the USA, of the people. If you don’t like it, leave, or work for change. Blame game is over.

      • Anonymous

        Apparently you do not listen to what the American people feel about the actions of Congress. Lowest ratings ever. Not everything has to be done in secret to accomplish an end goal. The Japanese were warned and given the opportunity to serrender and refused prior to bomb being dropped. You do not upset me for you having your own opionion that is what this country is about. But you are the one that is wrong. And I do work everyday to help others and educate people in my community and try to elect leaders that represent my belief in the USA and strong belief of individual responsibility. I even volunteer at the polls on voting days. So don’t lecture me for having a different opinion or seeing things different from you. Sun light in the best disinfectant. If anyone needs to leave it is you.

  • http://twitter.com/doorsxp Doors Xp

    Ron Paul is partially right. We don’t hate him because he is free and prosperous. We hate him for saying stupid things like what he said here.

  • Anonymous

    He was a nutcase then, and he is a nutcase now.

  • http://twitter.com/Winston80 Winston

    He is more like a communist politician than a true American politician. Shame on @RNC for allowing this loony man on the stage to debate with others.

    • Anonymous

      Actually, non-interventionism has a long history in this country going back to the founders.

      • http://no-apologies-round2.blogspot.com/ AmericanborninCanada

        Barbary Pirates? Tripoli?

        • Anonymous

          I’m thinking more along the lines of Thomas Paine, Thomas Jefferson (“peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none.”), the Monroe Doctrine.

          • http://no-apologies-round2.blogspot.com/ AmericanborninCanada

            ok

            • http://twitter.com/PoeAllen Allen Poe

              Pshaw, before WW2, no country worried one whit about what the USA thought.

  • Anonymous

    The problem with Islam continues because of hatred of the God of love, Jesus Christ. No human solution is available, no matter how long we debate any topic. The horrible acts that extremists of any kind do are the result of spiritual depravity–the condition of every one of us without Christ. He, alone, will eventually clear out these sins, and Christians meantime need to be telling the gospel of his peace until that day. May the Lord be praised for his mercy, available to every person reading.

    • http://no-apologies-round2.blogspot.com/ AmericanborninCanada

      Amen!

  • Anonymous

    People love this man? This video has to be on all television stations.
    I read on another site that Paul was going to vote Nay on Afghanistan but a few in his office threatened to quit. It mentioned Victoria, I’m not sure if it s a woman or one of the districts he represents.

  • Anonymous

    Hatred of people by any extremist is the outpouring of hatred of Jesus Christ, the creator of man. There are no manmade solutions, but Christians are able to provide the gospel of peace to all people. We are to love our enemies also. Often, they force us to fight as well. Absolute love will preach the gospel to God haters, and defend those they are trying to kill. Every person must repent of unbelief in Jesus, our creator who deals with those who don’t.

    • http://twitter.com/PoeAllen Allen Poe

      Christ said you must forgive everybody. That does not mean you cannot shoot them, to protect our people. A dead enemy is easy to forgive. Forgiving an enemy, as he shoots you, is foolish. Baring your chest to a gun, is not Christlike. Those who say our enemy is right deserves his death.

  • Anonymous

    The Bible is clear that utopia isn’t what we’re headed for. That’s a human dream. Heaven is the future reality for children of God, those with the indwelling Christ. Meantime, we’re permitted, biblically, to defend ourselves, and our interests. We must carry the gospel with us, though, or all the work is in vain. If Ron Paul seeks a utopia, he’s made a mistake.

    • Anonymous

      Amen.

    • Anonymous

      If you are engaged in politics you are seeking a utopia just as much as Ron Paul. Ron Paul’s utopia is an adherence to the constitution. Yours apparently is something else.

      Btw, MLK had a dream.

      Oh, and how does that prayer go that Todd Beamer recited on 9/11? Your will be done on, hmm, someplace, just as it is in heaven?

  • Anonymous

    Regarding Mr. Jefferson, remember he spoke of great ideals and executed few of them personally. He hated slavery, but never got rid of his slaves.

    • http://twitter.com/PoeAllen Allen Poe

      Nor do you.

  • Anonymous

    Thanks for posting that RS. It was good to read something a little more fundamental and substantive than the usual knee-jerk visceral reaction to 9/11. I have that rage in me as well, but I want plotters punished without losing an iota of my liberty.

    I am growing more convinced than ever that the US government is harming us in a myriad of seen and unseen ways. The US government makes itself a busybody in the affairs of Amish milk sellers, and makes itself a busybody in the affairs of the Middle East. The Muslims; however, are a little less forgiving than the Amish.

    OBL tried to attack the US government in Washington, the US military at the pentagon, and the US economy at the WTC.

    And, it makes me wonder how things would have been different if OBL had concentrated his efforts at attacking Washington.

    One thing is for sure – OWS and the Tea Party would have nothing to protest.

  • http://twitter.com/Winston80 Winston

    This man is an anti-American loon.

  • Anonymous

    Paul says we went over there for oil interests. He is correct. We have too. We can’t live without oil. No civilization can. But Pauley the clown is focusing on the wrong group and patriotic Americans. Environmentalists are the problem Pauley the clown. We can’t get our own resources and are then forced to go too the middle east. Pauley the clown, focus on the real problem instead of blaming your own country. Environmental imperialists should be on your radar not your own people you disgusting human being.

    • http://twitter.com/PoeAllen Allen Poe

      We have plenty of oil. We just need to get it, despite OB.

  • http://twitter.com/PoeAllen Allen Poe

    It’s the same old jazz, mama. If American oil companies had never drilled the oil wells, thinking to have them forever, they would have no oil. It happens again and again. Greed of a few, kills many. If they had been stopped by the USA government, much of this would not have happened. If you really think they did it without congressional approval, your are naive. If you think congress did not get any of that money, you are a fool. If you think Osama Ben Laden was not a known terrorist in 1970, you are ignorant. Just read OBL’s teen years. His backers in congress, will try to rewrite even 9/11. They are already blaming Bush. I and my family have fought these —- for 150 years. It is YOUR county. Fight or perish.

  • Anonymous

    When did American non-interventionism get replaced with globalism? Was there a distinct turning point or was it a gradual process?

    • KenInMontana

      Monroe, perhaps.

  • Constance

    Factually, he has many things correct. Yet, he consistently overlooks the most important element in all of this – the religious fanaticism behind the actions. We are not dealing with people who are like us. We must be the big bully on the block at all times, kicking butts and cracking heads to ensure that Islamic fundamentalism does not take root in every corner, which is precisely what it is doing now. There is no excuse for killing almost 3000 innocent civilians in one morning in September. Those are not the actions of some middle eastern people upset over oil or American dominance. Those are the actions of religious freaks, hell bent on destroying anything not in line with their views. Mr. Paul never seems to get this. He can talk all around the subject with facts and figures, but he is completely blind to the biggest factor of all. Good grief.

  • Anonymous

    Muslim hatred of the West is a mute point. They can’t even tolerate each other. Shiite and Sunni are continually killing each other. So, to say that the West has perpetrated these attacks are nonsense. The Muslims hate each other and everyone else. The Bible predicted this 5000 yrs ago, when Ishmael was born.

  • jason hall

    I love how questioning Americas foreign policy makes you unamerican, but its ok to bitch about healthcare. What facts did Ron Paul get wrong, I cant find any.

    Ron Paul needs to better explain that constant war isn’t going to prevent a lone mad man from infiltrating our country to blow his underwear up on a plane, and belief that all of the sudden wave of terrorist are going to get together to “invade us” if we are not engaged in some quagmire has no backing in reality. Our wars and involment angers more PEOPLE. When we shot down a Iranian airliner containing 300 civilians how do you think that made them feel? Americans need to stop thinking of of our “Enemies” as a collective group. They may have a fucked up culture but they still have emotions and other human qualities, like revenge and hate. For 60 years we have done almost everything possible (but open war) to destroy Iran. What about when we overthrew Irans democratically elected government in 1953 because they didnt like Britain ripping them off for oil? How about when we gave Chemical Weapons, guns, equipment and intel to Iraqs when IRAQ invaded Iran. How about when we shot down a Civilian airliner flying over Iranian airspace killing 300 civilians and 66 children. How about Operation Praying Mantis? Or destroying their economy though sanctions? Want me to go on? If you were an Iranian citizen you would hate US as well. Our foreign policy has helped bring this on ourselves. If any country EVER invaded America I would be more then willing to give my life to protect my country so don’t call me an America hater, I just see our “enemies” as people capable real emotions, such as the desire for revenge and hate.

    Everything I mentioned is true, I can source it all if you want. After all the crap we have done to Iran, do you expect them to like us? We LOVE talking about Assassinations of Iranian scientists, how quickly we can destroy their economy, how soon we want to bomb them and how we should INVADE them to get back our spy drone we were flying over their sovereign land and it is met with applause. Should they not take this seriously? If I was and Iranian I would insist that my country get a nuke to keep America at bay. (Even Israelis admit this)

    The Establishment GOP are seriously over estimating the popularity of war. The Iraq deception is still fresh in everyone’s mind and even the majority of REPUBLICANS don’t even favor military action against Iran. The majority is waking up to the fact that being against actions the cause more unneeded hate towards America and pointing out the major flaws in our foreign policy is no more anti American then being against Obama-care. Ron Paul is going to get a lot more followers for being pro-peace then he would warmongering. He has more support from the military then all the other candidates and Obama put together, infact when other candidates and Obama are raking in millions of donations from big banks and special interests, Ron Pauls top source of donations comes from the US military and the American Public,

  • http://twitter.com/metro_con metro_con

    Ron Paul is/was wildly wrong in his backstory on Bin Laden in this speech. It just goes to show how little of his worldview is firmly rooted in fact.

    “Osama bin Laden, a wealthy man, left Saudi Arabia in 1979 to join American-sponsored so-called freedom fighters in Afghanistan.”

    Falsehood. There were two different groups of mujaheddin in Afghanistan fighting the Soviets. One was primarily foreign, Arab fighters funded by Bin Laden, and the other were native Afghanis backed by the US. The groups were quite distinct from one another, as Bin Laden already hated the US by this point and would kill an American on sight. Paul blurs the lines and pretends that Bin Laden joined some singular, great big pool of fighters that was indiscriminately accepted and supported by the US government.

    “He received financial assistance, weapons and training from our CIA, just as his allies in Kosovo continue to receive the same from us today. …”

    There is no proof that Bin Laden ever received, and quite a bit of evidence that he never would have accepted, aid from the US government. If you accept Bin Laden’s words at face value, as Paul routinely claims he does, you would accept his claims that he never wanted and never did have anything to do with the US during this period.

    “It is during this time that bin Laden learned to practice terror – tragically, with money from the US taxpayers.”

    Again, total falsehood – and beyond the point about whether or not he would have even accepted it, Bin Laden may not have even needed US taxpayer money. His entire role was as a fund-raiser (and, perhaps through purchase, a spiritual leader), not an actual fighter, as far as anyone has ever been able to tell.

    “But it wasn’t until 1991, during what we refer to as the Persian Gulf War, that he turned fully against the United States. It was this war, said to protect our oil, that brought out the worst in him. …”

    Total falsehood, Bin Laden clearly hated the US long before this, probably back to the mid 70s.

  • Anonymous

    Yawn…..it’s much more simple than that. They are radical religious nut jobs. Any involvement of western culture anywhere would induce violence from them, so unless we plan on totally isolating ourselves…which we cannot do…..we will be in their cross-hairs. Even that isn’t true, because the Al Qaeda founder went to school here and vowed to destroy us because of our culture.

    Fact is, Islam wants to dominate the world and get rid of (what they consider to be) the cancer that plagues it.

  • Anonymous

    All anyone needs to know about the “root cause” crowd is that they believe it begins with America and Western civilization and ends at Islam’s doorstep.

    Root Cause is just another way of blaming America first.

  • http://twitter.com/Powerfactor1 Mark Adam

    I want to know, what is so hard to believe? What entity has a budget deficit of $1.5 trillion, has $15 trillion debt, has crooked crony-capitalists as policy makers, can legally perform insider trading for personal profit, spends $ billions on the most ridiculous projects, can’t secure the border, can’t pass a responsible budget and lies to their constituents every time their lips move? Oh yeah, the entity called the United States Government. And what is so hard to believe that this same cadre of liars and crooks has an honest foreign policy? It makes sense to me that we are getting royally cheated and they work for us, what will they do to people they don’t have to answer to? Wake up and send a candidate to the Whitehouse that is NOT part of the establishment.

  • Mike Lee

    I’ll probably get hammered for this, but….what did he say that is wrong? But it’s far more complex than Ron Paul or most people believe. It’s a mix of so many things that has gotten us to where we are today. Why must we ignore reality? Why do we search for simple answers to complex matters? Most importantly….what relevance does it have TODAY? The past is behind us. Does any of this provide us with insight into how to more effectively defeat these mofos? I doubt it. Above all else, I don’t really care *WHY* they want to kill us. I only care that they do! Thus, we need to kill as many of them ASAP. I believe we’ve been far too soft in fighting this war. The weaker we are today, the more Western lives it’ll cost us in the future. Our society has become so weak, no stomach for war – and our enemy knows it.

    Liberalism (multiculti/diversity, political correctness, etc) is a huge part of the problem. There are always “reasons” why people want to kill us. I don’t care about “the why”… UNLESS it helps us defeat our enemy. For example, I think we should be targeting the radical religious and political leaders who promote Sharia. We have mosques in the West that are run by men who want to kill us and our way of life! And we ALLOW this!!! That is suicide.

  • limagoleador94

    I’d blame America too…

    Especially, when the US knew about the attack from the August Memos…

  • Kevin Hall

    Read bin Laden’s ‘Letter to America’. OBL lists numersous conditions that must be met and if the U.S. fails to meet them then the fight will continue. Bin Laden writes, “The first thing we are calling you to is Islam”. Enough said!!!