A group in MA is attacking the Pledge of Allegiance, suggesting that reciting it has shades of McCarthyism and should be banned from schools:
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More leftists nonsense.
I really have a deep admiration for people that can quote scripture pertinent to the subject matter. I never could, it always amazes me and it is a gift you should be proud of.
Thank You 4Hoppes9, you are very kind.
You’ll love this one too…
“… the fool has said in his heart, there is no God.”
Let’s not forget… McCarthy was RIGHT. (see Ann Coulter’s book “Treason.”)
he was 100% right.
That fat, bloated liberal scumbag Kennedy would be proud!
When you pledge allegiance to the flag, you are making an affirmation, not unlike the repititive affirmation of “I Love You”, those words need to be repeated even if by rote because even by rote it requires the thought, the physical act, and conscious awareness of the words.
It’s just brainwash anyway.
Yes, let’s not brainwash our children to believe that the symbol of the US is a reminder of the liberty it stands for; of the men and women who have worked hard and sacrificed to keep this country free; of the rich life we all enjoy and the rest of the world envies.
Heaven forbid they have to think about that for 2 minutes a day!
In what way, form or fashion does it actually do what you just claimed? Think about the actual words of the pledge for a second…AND the fact that these are SMALL CHILDREN who don’t understand American history and won’t until long after they don’t have to say it anymore in public school.
“I pledge allegience to the flag…” The flag is just a piece of cloth regardless of what nation it represents.
“…and to the Republic for which it stands…” How is this not just nationalism? It’s not pledging to any ideas at all…but just the nation.
“One nation under God…” wasn’t even in the original pledge, but was added later in 1954.
“…indivisible with liberty and justice for all…” Public schools do not teach these concepts, so these kids really don’t even know what they’re saying. It’s simply pledging to a government they don’t understand and with “liberty and justice” which are not aspects promoted by government at all anyway.
Sorry Tyler, but I just can’t take your BS anymore. Bye.
You are being disingenuous, pretending as if none of us were small children. We all said the pledge. I was a boy scout and learned what we were saying quite early on. I remember distinctly reciting the pledge several times as a child as young as 7 years old and I remember exactly what I believed it meant at those times.
You don’t get to tell me what I believed or knew or what all other children of this country do or don’t. It’s obvious from your posts that you aren’t a fan of our country. Witness, “I won’t send my kids to public school,” or ” ‘liberty and justice’ which are not aspects promoted by government.”
That’s a sad and jaded point of view and I reject your teachings and statements.
If you don’t like the USA and all it stands for, and all it’s tradition then GET OUT! You either love and respect this great land or SHut UP and GET OUT! Haing children saying the pledge of allegiance has so much value you would never understand in your feeble mind.
Rather strange that you’re basically saying that we should take the country for however it currently is rather than trying to make it better — the “love it or leave it” mentality. Perhaps it’s you who should get out of the US and go to a country where things have stayed relatively the same for centuries or longer.
Wow! You are so off. I certainly do not think things they way they are, in this country are good….it is the people who want to remove the goodness and add the crap. Why the hell does it scare you people so much to have our children learn the pledge?? I guess it is better if we eliminate any teachings towards respect and honor and rather have our children worship criminal sports figures and entertainers….well I, and tens of thousands of others will not stand for it….It is time for parents and anyone that cares for our children to keep/bring back the good traditions that this country was built upon! Perhaps you should take a look at other countries and the way they raise their children….if we stay on this path….the path you want us on….are children’s future is headed for disaster.
Then why the “love it or leave it” response? Why imply that anyone who dislikes the pledge of allegiance dislikes this country, is somehow anti-American, and should basically leave?
My concern with the Pledge of Allegiance is to what you are pledging allegiance: the State. To speak against communism and socialism while pledging your allegiance to the State spills over with hypocrisy, as that is to what communists and socialists pledge allegiance, either to a State or to a particular party.
I invite you to read my blog (in particular the posts here and here) to find out that while I want to get rid of the pledge of allegiance, I want to replace it with a declaration of allegiance to something that transcends the republic and the State: the Constitution. Jehovah’s Witnesses sued to have laws requiring the recitation of the pledge vacated, calling the pledge “idolatry”, and in 1943 the Supreme Court declared that you cannot require students to recite the pledge of allegiance.
And at the same time, I do not want anyone reciting the pledge that does not understand it. Do you really think 5 year-olds understand what they are saying when they recite the pledge of allegiance?
Ask yourself this: why are naturalized citizens required by Federal regulation to declare their allegiance to the Constitution along with a promise to support and defend it, while natural-born citizens pledge allegiance “to the Flag of the United States of America and to the republic”? Does nothing seem off about that to you?
I agree with the teacher who said there is historical significance to saying the Pledge. Does this group of jackwagons ever think that perhaps if kids learned true American History, and even about the pledge, that they wouldn’t be just repeating a “rote ritualism”.
I’ve got a simple little book Called the Pledge of Allegiance, put out by Scholatic that explains the pledge and why it is said. I taught it to my son and he understands it. To think that this is unpatriotic or “McArthyism” is, for this AmericanborninCanada one of the most idiotic statements I’ve ever heard.
Which part is disagreeable to these people? Promising to be loyal to our country and to the republican form of government? Well, yeah, I guess if you’re a commie, that could be difficult, especially if you hate your country.
Indivisible, and under God? Well, yeah, when you’re wanting to create class and race warfare, I guess this could be opposite of your desires, and of course the God thing doesn’t work for you.
Could be the liberty and justice for all thing? But of course that is something every true commie claims to want, so it can’t be that.
These people need to go away if they don’t appreciate America.
It’s this part they disagree with:
– Meaning lost in endless repetition, no explanation given, no history provided.
– Comprises an ideological viewpoint that is forced on little kids by authorities to whom they are dependent.
– The two above, taken together, is the definition of brainwashing.
– The absurdity of having to repeat a pledge daily that apparently is only good for 24 hours.
– The routine of it, which makes you feel like a brain-dead, robot sheep as opposed to a citizen of a free country who enjoys individual liberty.
– Subordinates the people to the government, which, we are told on good authority, was created by us, with allegiance to us, not us to it.
– Exalts nationalism over federalism contrary to the basic principles of our Republic. (Subsuming states and individual rights to central government is a necessary pre-requisite for national socialist programs to gain traction. This was an explicit goal of Francis Bellamy, the socialist author of the PofA).
– Encourages jingoism. Antagonistic tribalism. No other countries have their citizens swear a loyalty oath to their government (except the Philippines, mimicking the U.S).
– Originally concocted by a company that sold flags as part of a plan to compel schools to buy flags.
– Unsavory connection with Nazis. Originally featured the Nazi-style salute. In fact, it was Hilter, who much admiring the American Pledge, adopted the salute for his sig heil.
– Is patriotic lip-service in place of, even at the expense of, actual civic engagement and action. (Symbolic patriotism)
– Considered idolatry; taking the name of God in vain, swearing oaths by many Christians
– Divides the nation (and the classroom) along religious lines. Only those represented by the Judeo-Christian “God” need apply as patriots. Ironic that “under God”, comes right before “indivisible.”
– Is hypocritical on the part of adults, bullying kids into doing something that adults themselves don’t do. (You say the Pledge every day, do you, on someone else’s schedule?)
– And, last but not least, pledging allegiance to a flag is just stupid.
More at: http://members.cox.net/patriotismforall/
Call me old fashioned, call me an idiot. Call me whatever you want- but yes I do say the pledge. It’s one of the first things I learned to say when I came here. When I say it, I don’t think of nazis or anything but gratitude for God blessing me to be able to come to a land which has been the greatest nation on the planet. I think of the men and women who have fought and died, or still fighting for everything the flag represents.
I think of the way of the founding of this nation, and at that time, yes, it was a nation dedicated to God, and the spreading of the Gospel, as said in the Mayflower Compact. I think of the founders who had wisdom because they knew the Bible, even if not all of them agreed on religion.
So yes, I think of the nationalism of the pledge, because while it is made of States and individualism, it is also made up of people who make one nation.
Call me whatever you want- tell me how wrong I am to pledge to a nation, under God, who I believe had His Hand in the formation of this nation, but I think it’s a pity that people can’t still see the great things that have made America.
OK. You’re an idiot. Nationalism is part of the problem, no matter where you’re located. My wife, born in the Soviet Union, told me that when she was young, she and her friend as teens used to marvel together, “How is it possible that out of all the places we could have been born, we were born in the world’s best place and time.” So let me add, you’re wrong, ignorant, and self-centered. What you should be is a human who realizes that you are not special, your nation is no more under god than other nations. We’re all in this together.
One good thing about freedom- everyone is entitled to and allowed to speak their opinions.
Wow!!! You totally missed the point of Americanbornincanada…perhaps you should re-read it!!! Seriously, what are you thinking?
It seems time to once again hear it done by Red Skelton. I hope posting a link is okay, Scoop.
I love this…thanks for the link, P077
You are welcome and glad you enjoyed it.
If every teacher used that as a “teaching tool” there might be more kids that didn’t just sit there instead of actively participating in the pledge.
Granted I’m an older person, but it always makes me really feel the passions and purpose of our forebears and the beauty of America. God Bless us one and all.
Patriot… here’s the video
Thanks las. (The link I posted has the video plus text and audio.)
I love Red Skelton and get teary eyed every time I see this. Something about the combination of such a loving, gentle, giving soul and patriotism I suppose.
I get a tear in my eye and a lump in my throat when I hear this too. He was one of the great entertainers in my book.
Par for the course with that state.. Thanks Mitt for leaving it in such disarray that people are objecting to the Unites States Flag.
I don’t really care either way if it stays or it goes since I have no intention of sending my daughter to public schools. The pledge of allegiance really is just nationalist brainwashing from the get-go. These kids don’t even know what the heck they’re saying. Read into your history on this before you go freaking out. The Bellamy salute ring a bell to anyone? Same guy who first did the salute Nazis used is the same one who originally created the pledge…which also did NOT ORIGINALLY have the words “under God” in it. Just some food for thought.
Per Orange Shaman: “I don’t care either way, but it’s irrelivent as far as I’m concerned and here’s a list of reasons why I don’t like it and don’t like America. Just saying…”
Wow! Way to misinterpret my post. Congrats.
Wow. Way to enumerate the actual misinterpretation. Oh, wait, you left that off, didn’t you.
Perhaps you don’t recall writing, “The pledge of allegiance really is just nationalist brainwashing from the get-go. These kids don’t even know what the heck they’re saying.”
Tell me how that isn’t dismissive? And that was just part of your complaint.
Considering the “Bellamy Salute” was first demonstrated in 1892 and was actually not created by Bellamy, but by a man by the name of James B. Upham. The salute was latter appropriated by the Italian Fascist party in 1919, who believed it to be the salute used by the Roman Legions due to its depiction in a piece of classical art from the late 1700’s, the salute was also depicted in at least three other pieces of neoclassical art. The Nazis latter “borrowed” the salute and made it their own (Hitler admitted to adopting it from the Italians in his own writings) in the end Congress did away with the salute by amending the US Flag Code in 1942, because of the use of a similar salute by the Nazis. Your point is a non-point, intended only to defame the pledge and the concept it represents in committing oneself to an ideal.
Yes, pretty much everyone here has been aware of the fact that the words “under God” were inserted into the Pledge during the Eisenhower administration as a rejection of the Atheistic Communist dogma of the USSR. In fact, that was the fourth time the Pledge had been changed, the original was quite short and simple and it was as follows:
I pledge allegiance to my flag and the republic for which it stands: one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all.
History is quite a bit more complex than your pathetic attempts to over-simplify and whitewash it until fits into the niche of your worldview is what as known as propaganda. It may hold up with your Anarchist compatriots but it does not hold up to the facts. To quote a well known former Mayor of Carmel, “You’re beginning to bore the hell out of me”.
Hey Ken, you’ll appreciate this then. “Same guy who first did the salute Italian Fascists used is the same one who originally created the pledge.” How exactly does that mitigate a horrible lineage in the Pledge? If you look at photos of American kids in full “Uphman” salute while reminding yourself that the words were written by Bellamy, a hell-bent, socialist-nationalist, from a leading socialist family, you will get major chills!
Hmm, 1829 is a bit prior to 1919 when the Italian Fascists first used the salute, since you seem to be fond of wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_salute
I know who and what Bellamy was and who Upham was. Political ideologies aside, the Pledge is in its fifth variation and no where in it do we find anything to do with the ideologies of either man. What you decry as nationalism others see as patriotism. The Pledge is made to the symbol of our Republic (the Flag) and to the ideals it represents, not politicians or a government. By the way Bellamy was actually what was called (at the time) a Christian-Socialist.
Patriotism- a devoted love, support, and defense of one’s country; national loyalty.
Nationalism- 1. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) a sentiment based on common cultural characteristics that binds a population and often produces a policy of national independence or separatism
2. loyalty or devotion to one’s country; patriotism
3. exaggerated, passionate, or fanatical devotion to a national community.
The two words boil down to the same ideal, it just happens that individuals like yourself choose to corrupt the definition of the word and then bandy the word nationalism about like it was a profanity. I took another oath as well, I took it freely, proudly and without hesitation or reservation (like many others) when I enlisted in the Armed Forces, and took my place on the wall in defense of my fellow countrymen (and women). I am proud of my place in my family’s unbroken line of service to the people of this country that dates back to the beginnings of the American Revolution. I still hold to that oath even though I no longer wear the uniform, there is no “opt out” clause or rescinding ceremony at discharge. There was only a personal amending, as I no longer wear the uniform there are no “superior officers” left to obey save one, and it sure as hell isn’t the President. I see no “horrible linage” of the pledge, the Star Spangled Banner was written by a lawyer, but when it is played or sung I still rise to my feet and show the appropriate respect, it matters not to me who wrote it and what that person’s profession or political beliefs were. In closing, if you do not believe that the ideals our Republic was founded upon, if you believe it is too late to save her, then shut the hell up and get out of the faces of those of us who have not now nor will ever surrender this cause.
” exaggerated, passionate, or fanatical devotion to a national community.”
That’s you. Not cool!
By 1919n the Pledge in American was in full swing. Easily caught the eye of the fascists by then. I believe in the ideals. Freedom from government influence in matters of personal conscience. Period. Forcing you politics and religion on my kids everyday crosses a line that is un-American. Out of your faces? You get your Pledge out of my kids faces. Their in elementary school. Tough military guy, going to ram in down the throats of a 6 and 7 year old are you?
You’re gone troll, oh and if you value your freedom of speech, thank a vet when you practice it in the public square.
Thank you Ken. For your service and more.
Massachusetts: not a real state but an incredible simulation!
It is really kind of scary to see how many people who live here but really don’t like America or what she stands for. It seems when Obama was elected a signal was sent out for all the liberal and anti-Americans to come out of hiding.
Recitation helps children to learn and when they need it they have it in their heads to bring out and seriously consider.
Right, and if you don’t impart your values and beliefs someone else will.
While I like the pledge and have taught it to my 14 grandkids, it’s not the same as the oath to defend and protect the Constitution. One is a symbolic construct of more modern times to our flag; the other is an oath to the most unique document ever written in the history of man and govermental principles! Which is most important, a pledge to a symbol or an oath to princpals of liberty and freedom? Easy answer don’t you think? Both have merit, but only one is the foundation of America. Just sayin’…..
VG–The pledge is a reminder and not the law of the land. But I think trying to eliminate it is just one more step from the Liberal playbook towards eliminating the all encompassing document that IS the Law of the Land.
You are right my friend. America is just as much under attack from within as she is from without. I’m not saying the pledge isn’t important, else I wouldn’t have taught it to my grandchildren. What this attack against the pledge IS, is a well thought out distraction by those determined to undermine all that is a part of American life and values. No matter what their reasons, no matter what they say, no matter what they call themselves, I assure you, BIG, they most certainly have ME as a sworn enemy! For my nations enemies, within and without our borders, NO QUARTER, NO MERCY! They are at war with my beloved AMERICA. There should be no surprise that I am at war with them! My loathing for them is that intense, my friend, they are filthy traitorious bastards! That clear enough?
What flag or emblem would he be pledging his allegiance to? What’s his problem with the US of A, perhaps he should become ex-pat and go elsewhere to live his life unencumbered by anything that he personally disagrees with, maybe Cuba or Venezuela would take him in. Sounds very bossypants to me. If he doesn’t like something, then no one can participate in it ?
I bet they would have no trouble pledging allegiance as a citizen of the world.
To Geo. Soros and Bill Ayers no doubt.
probably wouldn’t mind a un flag or giaia though
Patriotic idolatry is all the pledge of allegiance happens to be and nothing more.
In the liberal handbook there is only one sin… “being hypocritical”. Actually liberals have a hypersensitivity to anything that appears to be “hypocrisy.” They mostly use other words for synonyms however like racist, homophobic, right wing, Christian.
So if a child recites the pledge without knowing the meaning this is “hypocrisy”. If we as adults profess to anything patriotic without first being perfect patriots ( by their definition) then we are “hypocrites”. If we profess to be saved by Jesus Christ but still do bad things we are “hypocrites”.
In fact, political correctness has its basis in avoiding “hypocrisy”. PC says “I’m bad, you’re good” but anybody who says “you’re bad” immediately becomes a “hypocrite” and is subjected to all kind of vitriol.
In the past, the “Silent Majority” was kept silent because they were afraid of being viewed as a “hypocrite” But slowly the blinders are being removed. Those who proclaim “hypocrite” the loudest are those who do nothing.
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