I was always taught that Gog and Magog is Russia and I have never heard of Gog being the Antichrist. I do think that people are wrong about the EU being where the Antichrist comes out of and I think that he does come out of a Middle Eastern country and it's probably Turkey. The Bible says that the Antichrist will come out of the people who destroyed the temple and while that happened during the Roman Empire it does not neccessarily mean that he is from the EU since the Roman Empire split into and it had an eastern and western split(the legs of the statue in Daniels dream) and I think that the Antichrist is coming out of the eastern leg.
More significantly, our founders built our nation around the concept of Personal Sovereignty. Your right to live your life for your own sake. Our national identity comes from that. It does not mean we are, as a nation, in favor of Nationalist policies
And who is protecting this ??
Yep the nation state !
Walid's got it wrong with Bible prophecy, just like most Christians who don't spend enough time talking to Rabbis, who'll tell you that according to Daniels' time-line we've got over 200 years to go!
However, I agree you can't really understand Judaism, or Christianity or Islam without considering them together, and I think the best example of that is how the moon got to be the symbol of Islam in the first place, found in the Jewish Torah. There it records that Joseph, the son of Israel and Rachel, had a dream in which 11 stars representing his brothers, the sun representing his father, and the moon representing his mother all bowed down to him.
But the reason why the moon was Rachel's symbol is something Evangelical Christians need to pay attention to: because it has always been the symbol of the non-Jewish monotheistic proto-Palestinian tribes, confirming their place in the Holy Land since Abraham's time. Identified as either the Ishmaelites or the Midianites -- the tribe led by Jethro that Moses married in to -- their symbol was always the moon, throughout the OT.
And if you know that simple fact, then plugging those symbols into the NT, instead of promising an early Armageddon John's Revelation at the end of the Christian Bible promises a happy ending for everyone.
Because there Israel is described as a woman clothed by the sun (Israel), crowned with the Jewish/Palestinian children of Israel/Rachel and Leah (Palestinian/Jewish unity), and supported by the moon (Islam).
And if Daniel's right we have at least 200 years to get there, to the place Jews and Palestinians live together as equals, and support human rights and freedoms for all in Israel in Peace: and 200 years is almost as long as America's been around!
I'll bet back then Thomas Jefferson didn't think an African-American would ever be President, either...
@David Liepert I REALLY don't think we have 200 years left. Dear Leader has already expressed to the UN about the one -world government how he would like to see it and 'lead' the American Union. The pope has met with high level religious leaders in an attempt to garner support for a 'unified' religion. The Islamists are slowly taking over innocent, peaceful countries here in Asia. The black flags are raising in America as we speak. Better look around. I don't know when it is coming, but it will be soon.
I certainly would like a much more detailed explanation of this 200 years to go.
The covenant could be as simple as the muslim's recognizing Israel as a nation - and that could be months, or it could be a 2 state solution - who knows?
But I firmly believe - all the things Jesus spoke of in Mathew 24 are happening at present and he says when we see all these things look up - redemption is here.
200 years?!! Krunk killer. I'm a pre-trib believer myself. I want it to be sooner rather than later. It's true things are very, very bad right now, but it's still nothing like it will be when God pours out His judgment. People have gotten the time-line wrong before, and Mr. Shoebat makes a compelling argument. What matters is that we are ready for whenever it is. I get chills thinking about it sometimes (the good kind of chills).
Well that is certainly a fine job of torturing scripture to present an Islam centric end times view. Everywhere this guy or his books travel dissension follows among Christians. I am certain of one thing, I can read and understand the entire bible without this guy's assistance. To those of you who are truly born again Christians I can only recommend that you keep your distance.
To refute Walid you need to be much more elaborate. Point by point, showing us the error of his interpretations. Otherwise, you are merely disparaging an obviously learned man.
I haven't read all of your comments - but hope to do so. If I am repeating something - sorry.
I am very flexible on prophecy and have not bought completely into what Wallid believes, but am reading and listening.
I have formulated many alternate theories other than what I've been taught. Daniel 8 being one of them. Here I agree somewhat with Wallid, however, Daniel 8 says "an he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground".
This seems to me the "force" that comes at the ram extends from grecia farther to the west than he suggests, i.e. the whole earth meaning lots of nations, unless I am reading it wrong.
One side note here - since ancient warriors used horses and chariots - they had to touch the ground. This "force" is using planes, drones. sanctions or whatever.
Still working on trying to understand it completely, but he does add to many voids in prophecy that haven't made sense to date.
Still working my way through this.
I wish Mr. Phares had not used the word "nationalism." It doesn't really mean what I believe he is implying. Nationalism is a lot like tribalism, and tribalism is the source of racism.
I prefer a strong nation, held in firm control by the people, who may honorably prefer their own nation to all others. But I detest basic nationalist sentiment and policies, which are far more like the hooliganism that goes on in soccer.
a strong nation, held in firm control by the people, who may honorably prefer their own nation to all others
That is pure nationalism,
No, it's simply preference. When you choose a latte over a cup of truck stop java, that doesn't mean you are "dairyist."
Nationalism is the enactment of policies not based on simple defense, but on pride, jealousy, and other unconstitutional concepts. Things like protectionism, dumping, and government-instituted racism.
Did you know you cannot become a citizen of Germany unless your parents are German citizens? (unless they changed it recently) That's nationalism.
Definition #1 is simply redefining preference as nationalism, which is a silly thing to do; which clearly the author of that definition knows. Otherwise why go into so much elaboration on the second definition?
No one with any shred of desire to intellectually discuss the problems associated with genuine (definition #2) Nationalism, will bother to include soccer hooligans as part of the serious consequences.
More significantly, our founders built our nation around the concept of Personal Sovereignty. Your right to live your life for your own sake. Our national identity comes from that. It does not mean we are, as a nation, in favor of Nationalist policies. (Of course, Obama and company are so anti-Nationalist that they are doing their best to eliminate the very concept of nation, even while engaging in the nationalization of industry here.)
But Americans usually prefer our way of life. That's preference, no matter how many scholars fall all over themselves to declare otherwise.
1.1 The Basic Concept of Nationalism
Although the term “nationalism” has a variety of meanings, it centrally encompasses the two phenomena noted at the outset: (1) the attitude that the members of a nation have when they care about their identity as members of that nation and (2) the actions that the members of a nation take in seeking to achieve (or sustain) some form of political sovereignty (see for example, Nielsen 1998–9, 9). Each of these aspects requires elaboration. (1) raises questions about the concept of a nation or national identity, about what it is to belong to a nation, and about how much one ought to care about one's nation. Nations and national identity may be defined in terms of common origin, ethnicity, or cultural ties, and while an individual's membership in the nation is often regarded as involuntary, it is sometimes regarded as voluntary. The degree of care for one's nation that is required by nationalists is often, but not always, taken to be very high: according to such views, the claims of one's nation take precedence over rival contenders for authority and loyalty (see Berlin 1979, Smith 1991, Levy 2000, and the discussion in Gans 2003; for a more extreme characterization see the opening pages of Crosby 2005).
(2) raises questions about whether sovereignty entails the acquisition of full statehood with complete authority for domestic and international affairs, or whether something less than statehood would suffice. Although sovereignty is often taken to mean full statehood (Gellner 1983, ch. 1), more recently possible exceptions have been recognized (Miller 1992, 87 and Miller, 2000). Some authors defend even an anarchist version of patriotism-moderate nationalism, foreshadowed by Bakunin (see Robert Sparrow, “For the Union Makes Us Strong: Anarchism and Patriotism”, in Primoratz and Pavkovic 2007).
Despite these definitional worries, there is a fair amount of agreement about what is historically the most typical, paradigmatic form of nationalism. It is the one which features the supremacy of the nation's claims over other claims to individual allegiance, and which features full sovereignty as the persistent aim of its political program. Territorial sovereignty has traditionally been seen as a defining element of state power, and essential for nationhood. It was extolled in classic modern works by Hobbes, Locke, and Rousseau, and is coming back to the center stage of the debate, though philosophers are now more questioning and skeptical (see below). It is the control of the movement of money and people (in particular immigration) and the resource rights implied in territorial sovereignty that make the topic into a politically central one in the age of globalization, and philosophically interesting for nationalists and anti-nationalists alike.
The territorial state as political unit is seen by nationalists as centrally ‘belonging’ to one ethnic-cultural group, and actively charged with protecting and promulgating its traditions. This form is exemplified by the classical, “revivalist” nationalism, that was most prominent in the 19th century in Europe and Latin America. This classical nationalism later spread across the world, and in present days still marks many contemporary nationalisms.
The anti-christ might be erdogan or it might not be erdogan himself, but perhaps a successor. It is very interesting that all 7 churches of Revelation are in "asia" and happen to be in turkey.
I come from a background that said roman catholicism was the end times bad guy rather than islam. It never quite added up to me. But, if it is islam, then how do you factor in the various time prophecies: a) time, times and half a time of daniel 7, and b) 2300 days prophecy of daniel 8.
If i understand it well jesus and the mahdi are coming after a big war .
ain,t that nice !!???
The lords of peace , yep, i know you have to believe it.
Would be nice jesus and the mahdi ridding on nuclear cruise missiles.
That would be heavenly firework , !!
I,am more than happy that i go to the atheistic hell because your heaven is for me a bit to strange , more a hell to me.
Perhaps you do not understand it so well.
.....this may be the beginning of a better understanding--or the continuation of ignorance.
The word ignorant is an adjective describing a person in the state of being unaware and is often used as an insult to describe individuals who deliberately ignore or disregard important information or facts.
You make a common mistake, believing is not the same as knowing based on facts !
And information without a factual base are complete worthless to me.
So there you are whit you christian morality, insulting whit out a factual base.
intelligent design, in your case he forgot the intelligent part.
Well if I made a mistake regarding your ignorance, then I will apply the same mistake to myself and all others. We are all ignorant of many things. Nobody in this physical world can claim not to be.
I wish I could speak Vietnamese, but I can not and am to lazy to try to learn, so I will remain ignorant of that particular language.
The trick, is to always be trying to become not ignorant about something.
A ha the million dollar question will the real god stand up, or are you telling me now that the god of the koraan is the same as the god of the bible ?
Please enlighten me !
Nope, i,am not searching for a belief system, i am a hard core atheist.
And about thats ignorance and searching for the truth, when are you ready to start ??
Believing is different from knowing on the base of facts !
By the way, you are an atheist to, i go just one belief further !
I am not telling you anything you do not already know. Since, you are questioning here, you are apparently traveling a road in search of a belief-system you can live/die with.
All I am saying, is that it is a choice we all have to make about how we wish to live our lives...searching for truths, or just plodding along in ignorance.
What G-d you choose to believe in/or not, is, of course, up to you.
Hell is eternal separation from the loving God.I feel sad for you.It is only your lack of understanding that causes you to feel the way you do.
Don't forget it is at the same time a full understanding of the love of God and that it was a personal decision to remove oneself from that love.
Because your premise is wrong, same mistake the mo slims make that the koraan are the words of the allah god !
so al logical extension on a wrong premise are wrong
Why don't you "buy" that? Is scripture meant to be taken literally, word for word, as truth? There is no imagery or analogies used?
Yep i understand you well and it is the same old same
You set a premise as a factual truith and from there you try to make a logical extending.
I read and hear that a 1000 times , I do not buy that.
An understanding of Hell can be gained by considering what we know of God from scripture and logically extending using a philosophical structure-- this is called Theology.
Using Theology we can arrive at an understanding (not full) that Hell is a privation of God (all evil is a privation of good, Hell being the most deprived state). God sustains all creation in existence, therefore while one may choose (free will) to sin and accept Hell over God, God still holds that sinner in existence (out of love) yet now in a perfected state one becomes fully aware (my full knowledge comment) of how exactly God exists (love, but a total understanding we are not yet able to comprehend) AND at the same time, that through one's own free will God is now unattainable-- because the sinner has chosen him/herself over God.
It's basically the Garden of Eden all over again, banished from paradise because the sinner didn't want to listen to the wisdom of God. The full consequence of prideful defiance of the wisdom of God isn't known until Adam and Eve are cast out of paradise.
Hope this helps you understand what I was saying. In summary, in Hell one gains a full understanding-- I, not being in Heaven or Hell, do not currently possess such understanding.
what is it now full understanding ore not ?
Jees read your last comment again , no hell for me , i do not understand it neither for you, you are claiming that you are not fully understand it so ??
no hell and heaven , so forget the rest, don,t be afraid, free yourself from the fear ore what some people call love .
You can do it !
Not exactly sure what you mean by this. I'm not claiming that I have that full understanding-- What I'm saying is Hell involved a full understanding of what we freely chose to reject, which is the love of God. That is at the heart of the torments of Hell.
No the Mahdi the real dijal will be defeated and destroyed by the real Nahdi which is Christ. Allah is not God. If you understood that you'd take a different view of heaven. It isn't the Jihadi paradise spoken of in the Muslim trilogy. the alternative is much worse than the Muhammed described.
You have a problem here 1500,000,000 people think that allah is the real god.
lets fight about it who is right, oke ?
O i know the gods are coming back to earth ridding nukes to have a battle for the believers.
For me is that complete insane, so fill the rest in by yourself
But i wanna make you a bit happy, i,am more at your side if shit hits the fan, want so far i know you don,t want to kill me as being an atheist, mo slims will be more than happy to separate mine head from my body.
Bur after the big heavenly battle will you lock me up in a re education camp for atheist ??
Can i trust you ?
I will deal whit your god by myself, or are you as mo slims are the guardians of your god and think you have to fulfill his wishes on earth.
So I'm right. You have no facts. All you have is visceral, emotional vituperative drivel to back up your arguements. I've heard many an atheist defend their side and one or two were very good. Can't say the same for you. Your reply is illogical. One reply, you say you know that Christians aren't like Muslims, in the next reply, you say they are. Make up your mind. My strength is in Christ. Yours is in frail and mortal humans. Your god is you.
Nope i,am her to make clear that the battle in front of us must be not an religious battle on our side but one on facts, that god thing is contra productive you will lose a lot of support for the cause.
More an antagonist
And are you now asking me about facts about religion ???
I have a weird perception about spiritual things ! jees and the believers tell us that the god,s are coming to wipe out 1.5 milliard people !!
That is sick !!!!
Let me explain is so
If you continue whit that shit of my god is better than an other god you are losing my support.
Because i see you the same as the islamic idiots.
And do not be self-righteousness about my spiritual being, you do not know anything about it, not one letter.
You have the same mental problem as a lot of other believers.
Keep your faith private and do not use it as an argument , argue on base of facts !
So you will gain strength !
Ah so you're just here to be a protagonist huh? And you don't have any facts to offer. All you got is some weird perception of spiritual things. Yeah, you're not a great English speaker. But I got your points. Apparently you missed the lionshare of mine.
Just some remarks
The Allah-believers will be slaughtered by the real God in Israel in the greatest land battle in all of history. In the end their false prophet and his false god will be cast into hell. They got the problem.
and :You’re free to be whatever you want to be. Real Itah gives you that right.
me : a strange conception of freedom , you do what god say otherwise i kill you !! in this the god, s are the same !! or is it there earthly guardians ??
me: English is not my native tongue
You’ll have to go to North Korea or China if you are looking for a re-education camp
me: you sure about that, fema camps ?? or will i be killed by the god,s because i do not fit in that gog and magog picture !
The rest of you reaction leave i for what it is, : to much work to for me to show you the facts and the incorrect statements.
1. “You have a problem here 1500,000,000 people think that allah is the real god.”
Me: Doesn’t matter. The Allah-believers will be slaughtered by the real God in Israel in the greatest land battle in all of history. In the end their false prophet and his false god will be cast into hell. They got the problem.
2. “lets fight about it who is right, oke ?”
Me: Your English is vague. Or see #1
3. “O i know the gods are coming back to earth ridding nukes to have a battle for the elievers.For me is that complete insane, so fill the rest in by yourself”
Me: Not for me it is not. I’m not an atheist or a Muslim. My God IS Itah. Allah is not.
4.But i wanna make you a bit happy, i,am more at your side if shit hits the fan, want so far i know you don,t want to kill me as being an atheist, mo slims will be more than happy to separate mine head from my body.
Me: I already know that. Go check out all the atheists at IslamWatch. They are all saying the same thing.
6. Bur after the big heavenly battle will you lock me up in a re education camp for atheist ??
Me: You’ll have to go to North Korea or China if you are looking for a re-education camp.After the big battle it won’t be up to Christians to judge where you end up.
7. Can i trust you ?
What’s the old Russian proverb? Trust but verify?
8. I will deal whit your god by myself, or are you as mo slims are the guardians of your god and think you have to fulfill his wishes on earth.
Me: Muslims convert by force or stealth. Christians convert by reason and argumentation alone. Christians just follow the Scriptures, they don’t go out and slaughter the whole world. Don’t confuse Koran, Hadith with Christian Bible. The two philosophies are diametrically opposed to one another. Our mission is to try and convince people to turn away from sin and to accept Christ as Lord and Savior. Cause that’s the only way anyone is going to heaven. Muslim paradise doesn’t exist.But Hell sure does. So the object of the game is to try and convince others to avoid the fate of hell. That's our God's will on earth as well as Heaven.
You’re free to be whatever you want to be. Real Itah gives you that right. Fake Itah (Allah) does not.
You do know the global world order is here. You do know the one world currency is going to happen. You do know the mark of the beast where you can't buy or sell is coming. We do see Nation rising against nation, kingdom against kingdom, knowledge increased - everyone is offended - world turning against christians, I could go on and on forever.
All prophesied in the bible. Happening before our eyes.
Jesus said when you "SEE" (web cams live as they occur) ALL these thing (we do) look up things are gonna change drastically.
When they tell you to take the mark of the beast - I think you better think long and very hard about it before you do. You DO NOT want to know what comes next if you do.
Joel Rosenberg, a messianic Christian, has written a series of novels about Biblical prophecy and the end times. They are worth reading. The next novel in the second series is due in early March.
Thought I would share this link to a pastor who does weekly prophecy updates. If you go to his you tube site you can go through hundreds of previous videos, these are videos of his sermons in his church. Aloha Bible prophecy pastor JD Farag.
Many times one must see the bad to appreciate the good. Obama and his followers are the evil in this country. Will we see any good come to pass from this rocky road?