This is a HUGE article in my opinion, especially if you are Christian. Walid Shoebat lays out what is to come as we watch the Middle East morph into an Islamic caliphate and how the nations are setting up for peace between theses Islamic nations and Israel. It seems we are rapidly approaching end times now and Walid has called it all the way.

The one thing I found especially interesting was that he seems to name the Antichrist, suggesting it is Erdogan of Turkey. He doesn’t say it explicitly as in ‘Erdogan is the Antichrist’, but he makes comparisons of Erdogan to scriptural references of the Antichrist (Gog) from Daniel and it seems to me he points the big prophecy finger right at him. A very interesting development.

As I said in the title, this is a MUST READ. It’s long but it’s fascinating and well worth your time.

By Walid Shoebat

The U.S. and Israel are concerned about Iran’s Uranium Enrichment; Iran experiments with Duetrium, Brillium and Tritium – agents that are only used to detonate a Nuclear bomb. They have no waste facilities and it’s like the 9/11 hijackers learning how to take off but have no interest in learning how to land.

However, Israel and the U.S. cannot afford attacking Iran who will blockade the Hormuz. I was right all along; no attack happened and Iran will possess a nuclear weapon.

Iran is returning to it’s original historic state.

Eventually, the United States will fight against the Islamist nations. The good news (unlike what the modern prophecy buffs have taught) is that the U.S. will continue to be the strongest military power and will stand against Turkey in the end.

The U.S. is “the strongest of fortresses” (Daniel 11:39) which will eventually destroy the Islamic alliance:

“Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness. They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of [them that are] slain in the midst of the seas”. (Ezekiel 28:7-8)

The naval armada of the U.S., Italy, Greece, Spain and others will crush the Islamic alliance in the sea.
The use of the phrase, “Terrible of the nations” does not mean awful or ugly but “terrible in battle”, as in “the most powerful nations on earth”.

Antichrist does not rule the entire globe as is commonly thought, nor is he the ruler of the most powerful nation on earth.

Just read your Bible and not the Left Behind series.

This is the U.S. alongside other allies that will wake up in the end.

Christians need to stop heeding the warnings of fatalists who warn of the utter doom of America. Instead, they must pursue their nationalist aspirations – which stem from the Bible – against the universalists of Satan.

This defeatist mentality is hardly Christian; God ordained nationalism and has set up America for His purpose, to destroy tyrannies as it has always done.

I can already hear my critics but may I remind them that for years, they said Turkey was secular and that because that nation was an ally of Israel, our prophetic model would be far-fetched at best.

Where are these critics today?

Today, we do not see Europeans threatening Israel but we find Turkey parking it’s naval fleet on the Mediterranean, threatening Israeli and Greek oil exploration.

Today, Erdogan of Turkey has emerged as the hero of the Muslim world.

Erdogan was able gain admiration of the Muslim world when he walked out on Perez at the Davos debate and even regained Perez’s admiration later.

While the U.S., the E.U. and the U.N. begged Hamas to release Gilad Shalit, it was Erdogan of Turkey who finally brokered a deal, ordering Hamas to release him which portrayed the Turkish Prime Minister as the perfect broker between Islamists and Israel.

In Libya, Tunisia and Turkey are rising Islamist regimes that speak about entering Jerusalem triumphant. It is why Erdogan tells the more than 50 Muslim states O.I.C (Organization of Islamic Cooperation)…

“Jerusalem is the apple of the eye of every Muslim.”

Even if Israel gives up the Golan Heights, it will be used by such regimes to advance on Israel’s Adam’s apple. It’s not a Palestinian land issue but the issue of an existence of Jews within Muslim lands.

I have been saying it for years… “Hamas will recognize Israel” and become the dominant Palestinian force.

Today, this is becoming reality. Hamas today is courting Israel for a peace deal and while the recent elections in Israel saw the re-election of Netanyahu, election results seemed to indicate a lurch toward the middle in Israeli government and the further left that government moves, the more open it will be to signing treaties with Islamists.

Al-Quds al-Arabi has reported that Mashaal, who is expected to retire from being head of Hamas’s political bureau, has his eye on the Palestine Liberation Organization’s top position, aiming to replace Mahmoud Abbas as head of the PLO’s Executive Committee.

After the PA’s successful bid to upgrade its status at the UN, Hamas is moving closer than ever to play the same political game Yasser Arafat played even though many within Hamas deny it.

Take Hamas legislator Salah Bardaweel, who denied that his movement was prepared to accept the two-state solution.

But if you look at his answer closely: “Hamas’s political program can’t change overnight,” he said that there was a difference between accepting a Palestinian state based on the 1967 territories and recognizing Israel’s right to exist – something which he added, “Hamas would never do.”

It’s a contradiction. In other words, “We accept two states, but we don’t.” Translation: we will never accept Israel’s right to exist.

The change of position is fueled by Hamas’s interest in replacing Mahmoud Abbas as the head of the PLO. King Abdullah, an outspoken advocate of the two-state solution, is backing Meshal’s bid.

Hamas has solid support in Palestine and could conceivably replace Fatah.

They are all jumping on the bandwagon to make a deal. Saeb Erekat and Deputy Foreign Minister Ghazi Hamad supported the motion.

Even the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine’s (PFLP) Kayed Al-Ghul calls it “political adaptation” in order to gain International recognition. Saleh Zeedan of the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (DFLP) also welcomes the move.

This is why they are currently going to Egypt for reconciliation between the PLO and Hamas. Egypt will be where this peace-deal will happen. (Isaiah 28:14-15)

Hamas insists on arranging elections in order to basically take over the Palestinian arena, especially since the European Union shows much support for establishing a Palestinian state as has been seen in the United Nations recently. Of course, the only way to jump on the bandwagon is to accept a two-state solution.

Couple this with latest boost of Islamic success in the Arab Spring. Egypt, for example, is the most powerful Arab country and will see to it that Hamas follows its mother – the Muslim Brotherhood. If Hamas wants to have a Hudna, it must first get the approval of the Muslim Brotherhood. This is why I had always stated that the Camp David Accords will not be broken soon. In fact, it will be reconfirmed until the strength of Islam takes root in the global arena.

Egypt is in economic collapse. Israel knows that Egypt needs help from the West and that the latter wants to bank on this to keep peace with Israel.

Mahmoud Zahar visited Iran recently, so it’s an Iranian strategy to push this peace initiative in order to divert attention from its nuclear program and to halt any Israeli attacks on Iran. This will thwart Israel’s efforts (Iran supplied Fajr 5 to Hamas) and isolate it further within the region.

But who will broker this deal?

Even European leaders like former French President Sarkozy confess that Turkey and not the E.U. is the perfect government that will broker any peace deals with Israel in the Middle East.

What has been coming to pass is not what many modern prophecy buffs have been saying for the last several decades but what we have gleaned from the scholars of the past. Hilaire Belloc, Bishop Fulton Sheen, Gregory Palamus of Thessalonica, Vernon Richards, Sir Robert Anderson, Cyril of Jerusalem, Sophronius the Patriarch of Jerusalem (560-638), Maximus The Confessor (580-662), John of Damascus (676-749), Eulogius of Cordova, Paul Alvarus, the Martyrs of Cordova, John Calvin and Jonathan Edwards the great American Revivalist all saw Islam as playing the major roll in the End-Times. These and many others simply focused on the literal proclamations in the Bible – as we have done for several years in our book God’s War on Terror; Islam Prophecy and the Bible.

So where are my critics today?

What I have written fifteen years ago in Why I Left Jihad is coming to pass. Today, Turkey, North Africa (Libya, Tunisia), Egypt will all elect to be ruled by Islamic Sharia.

Some might view this as a sense of pride.

Hardly.

Do they prefer we be wrong rather than right?

Is it a good thing to be afflicted with Islamophobia? Pre-order the new book from Walid Shoebat, The Case FOR ISLAMOPHOBIA: Jihad by the Word; America’s Final Warning.

Indeed, “set times and set laws” are changing throughout the Middle East and this revived law is Islamic Sharia. The Gog of Turkey Recep Tayyip Erdogan succeeded as we have been saying for years in establishing himself permanently by concocting the Ergenekon Conspiracy, thwarting the Generals and the judges. Erdogan does not “honor the desire of women” (Daniel 11:37) and prohibits them entry into the government while he promoted the Hijabization of women.

It is not any European leader that is setting his eyes on Jerusalem, but Erdogan of Turkey who declared during his speech to the most important Islamist body in the Muslim world – the O.I.C Organization of Islamic Council, saying that “Jerusalem is the apple of the eye of every Muslim”.

No French, Italian or German European Union leader made such proclamations. And as we predicted, Turkey failed entry into the European Union since the beast is the body of a Leopard (Revelation 13:2) (The Greco-Roman) and not European. With its feet of the Bear (Iran) and its mouth of the Lion (Babylonia).

Today, Turkey is courting Russia and China to join the Shaghai-5 and not the E.U.

The biblical prophecies are accurate but misunderstood.

Daniel 7 and 8 are not about ancient historic events dealing with the Babylonian Empire exclusively but there are parallels: Lion standing on feet, bear rising on one side, leopard coming up in the end.

Iraq (The Babylonian Empire) was the major power in the Middle East when Saddam was in charge; its wings were clipped, then plucked before being humbled by the U.S. Iran rose (bear on one side without Media-Kurdistan) and today we have the Shia-Crescent – the Persian Bear – rising.

This term “Shia-Crescent” was coined by Abdullah II, king of Jordan, after which it became popular in political debates. References to the Shia Crescent are often made with the belief that the common religion gives good potential for cooperation.

The countries included in this are Iran, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon and Azerbaijan.

Now we have Turkey coming out exactly where Greece used to be. Ever wonder why Zechariah 9 (Ionia/Greece) is one of the four Grecian kingdoms?

But perhaps the Ottoman was intended as well, which was broken into 4 and out of one of them will arise the last one. Mehmed II made Constantinople (present-day Istanbul) the new capital of the Ottoman Empire, and he assumed the title of Kayser-i Rûm (Caesar Romanus = Roman Emperor).

Mehmed II wanted to gain control over the Western capital, Rome, and Ottoman forces occupied parts of the Italian peninsula. After Mehmed II’s death on 3 May 1481, the campaign in Italy was cancelled and Ottoman forces retreated.

Today, the contest between Iran (the bear) and Turkey (the Leopard) will see Turkey emerge victorious. As a result, Iraq will continue to weaken after being gobbled up by Iran following America’s exit.

By this, Turkey will control the Suez and the Bosporus while Iran controls the Hormuz. This will undermine the U.S. naval hegemony in the region, which eventually will use its military armada alongside other allied European nations to fight in the Middle East.

With the end of Arab Nationalism, we have a void to be filled with the Turkish Model; that model is ‘moderate Islam’. The fall of Arab Nationalism will cause the Arab world to be looking for a protector and a guard – “be a guard unto them”. (Ezekiel 38:7)

Who?

Gog (Antichrist) will be the guardian of Libya, Persia and Somalia/Sudan (Cush).

You might ask, how will Iran accept him as guardian?

Well…

  1. In March 2011, Muqtada Sadr (Shia) welcomed Erdogan in Iraq.
  2. The Shia religious institution in Persia are Azeri Turks, not Persians.
  3. Iran and Sadr would like Turkey to mediate in Bahrain, which is majority Shia. Turkey—During Erdogan’s trip to Cairo, Tunis and Tripoli, he told rapt audiences that Islam and democracy can co-exist. This is part of the stealth (Muruna) Islam can adapt to times until it gains its goals. Part of his fame comes from an economic explosion. Erdogan has embraced the free market and overseen a near tripling of per capita income since taking power a decade ago. Last year, the economy grew at 8.9 percent, one of the highest rates in the world. Today, Turkey boasts one of the fastest growing middle classes in the Middle East. The beast is constructed of strong and weak nations.

Today, the West will welcome Turkey as a better option to replace Iran’s revolution. In the Western view this will moderate Hamas and Syria, which will take it’s orders from Turkey instead of Iran. It will also give Saudi Arabia security being an ally with Sunni Turkey protecting it from Iran. Turkey appeased the U.S. by allowing it to place the RADAR system in Turkey.

Mustafa Aykol, a Turkish newspaper columnist and frequent Erdogan defender, said his Justice and Development Party, known by its Turkish initials, AKP, is a model for Islamist parties in Egypt, Tunisia and Libya. In a new book, Islam Without Extremes: A Muslim Case for Liberty, Aykol told Rueters that there can be liberalism within Islam and challenges the authoritarian interpretations of Iran, Saudi Arabia and militant groups.

The prudent in the western Church will begin to realize that the Antichrist system will not be the European Union – as modern prophecy buffs have stated for years – but an Islamic Union led by Turkey. In Zechariah 9:13, the Lord declares:

“I will rouse your sons, O Zion, against your sons, O Yavan.”

In this passage, Israel is seen fighting against Ionia or Yavan, not the European Union. In several Bibles, this word is translated as “Greece” but Ionia/Yavan was simply a province that was located on the western coast of modern Turkey. This is crucial because the clear context of this battle is the return of Christ: “Then Jehovah will appear over them” and fight on their behalf. So in the End-Times, at the time when Jesus returns, the Jews (Zion) will be engaged in a war with Turkey (Yavan).

As we predicted several years ago, Egypt has fallen. We stated that Egypt will end up in civil war between secularists and Salafists / Muslim Brotherhood with the Christians of Egypt slaughtered in the process.

All this is spelled out in Isaiah 19. Egypt – in the coming years – will be weakened to the point that the Turks (Iron) will take over the weakened clay nations of Egypt, Tunisia and Libya (Daniel 11:42). These just opted for the fad of Sharia over western secularism exactly as we stated long ago.

The Babylon of the end-times is not Iraq, which is soon to be gobbled up by Iran. While modern prophecy buffs predicted the revival of Iraq’s Babylon by Saddam, their predictions are in the garbage bin of history.

They failed to examine Scripture closely and isolated verses from their own pre-conceived context. The Bible in end-time prophecy never even mentions ancient cities of Babylon; in every verse in the Bible where a region or city within this predicted Babylon is mentioned, that region or city is in Arabia, not Iraq (Isaiah 21, Jeremiah 49). It is Kedar, Dumah and Arabia; there is no mention of Babel, Sumer, Accad, Erech, Calneh in any of these verses.

Arabia is the mouthpiece (mouth of a lion), which Islam emanates from. It is the Harlot from the desert Island (Revelation 17:3) that sits on many waters, the “desert of the sea” (Isaiah 21) which John saw.

The Antichrist is said to rule from Pergamum (Revelation 2:12-13), which Christ proclaimed would be the future seat of Satan. This is on the sides of the northern lands (Asia Minor / Turkey).

Riyadh reacted with intense anger after the US revealed a plot laid by a secret Iranian military unit, the Quds force, to assassinate the Saudi ambassador to Washington. The attempted assassination of Adel Al-Jubeir, Saudi Ambassador to the U.S., caused Iranians to cancel the Haj. The rift between Iran and Saudi Arabia will cause Iran to nuke Arabia (Isaiah 21) “Arise O Elam” against Babylon of Arabia.

What is left for 2013 and beyond is for Turkey to spread its tentacles into the Muslim nations and eventually Egyptians, Libyans, Tunisians, Algerians, Moroccans, Mauritanians, Sudanese, Somalis, Syrians, Pakistanis, Azerbaijanis, Uzbeks, and Turkmens will all be looking at Turkey’s Islamist model while pledging allegiance to the New Ottomans.

We have said for years that the Ottoman Empire will be revived. Lo and behold, here we are. While many of these nations speak Arabic, they are hardly Arab. Arab Nationalism is out and Islamist Universalism is in. Just look at every Muslim country on earth.

A Caliphate will arise out of Turkey and the Gog of Turkey will portray himself as the re-incarnation of Muhammad, Saladin and the Ottoman Sulaiman Al-Qanuni (Solomon the law-giver).

Islam being controlled by non-Arabs will eventually put Saudi Arabia at risk of destruction by Iran (Isaiah 21); Arabia, the source of Islam, will be no more (Isaiah 34, Ezekiel 25:13); and the oil of the Arabs will burn forever (Isaiah 34:9). All this will happen despite the U.S. effort to arm Arabia to the teeth.

Unlike western media, which is in collective denial, I read the Arabic and the “Turkish Model” today is a household name in the Muslim political arena; millions in the Muslim world are calling for Erdogan to lead them with his modernistic Islamist model. With the Turkish model, Turkey and the Muslims will snooker the West into thinking that at least “moderate” Islam is better than fundamentalist Islam. Peaceful Islam will be the talk for the next few years to come and…

“by peace he [Antichrist] will deceive many” (Daniel 8:25).

The West will enter another Neville Chamberlain era, buying into the “peace in our time” mantra.

In so doing, it will fulfill more Biblical truths:

“just when they say peace and safety sudden destruction will come…” 1 Thessalonians 5:3

At this point, the West will find out in the end that “Secular Islam” and “Fundamentalist Islam” are two faces of the same coin.

You heard it here first… again.




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154 comments
chj82
chj82

I was always taught that Gog and Magog is Russia and I have never heard of Gog being the Antichrist. I do think that people are wrong about the EU being where the Antichrist comes out of and I think that he does come out of a Middle Eastern country and it's probably Turkey. The Bible says that the Antichrist will come out of the people who destroyed the temple and while that happened during the Roman Empire it does not neccessarily mean that he is from the EU since the Roman Empire split into and it had an eastern and western split(the legs of the statue in Daniels dream) and I think that the Antichrist is coming out of the eastern leg.

soraja
soraja

More significantly, our founders built our nation around the concept of Personal Sovereignty. Your right to live your life for your own sake. Our national identity comes from that. It does not mean we are, as a nation, in favor of Nationalist policies

And who is protecting this ??

Yep the nation state !

David Liepert
David Liepert

Walid's got it wrong with Bible prophecy, just like most Christians who don't spend enough time talking to Rabbis, who'll tell you that according to Daniels' time-line we've got over 200 years to go!

However, I agree you can't really understand Judaism, or Christianity or Islam without considering them together, and I think the best example of that is how the moon got to be the symbol of Islam in the first place, found in the Jewish Torah. There it records that Joseph, the son of Israel and Rachel, had a dream in which 11 stars representing his brothers, the sun representing his father, and the moon representing his mother all bowed down to him.

But the reason why the moon was Rachel's symbol is something Evangelical Christians need to pay attention to: because it has always been the symbol of the non-Jewish monotheistic proto-Palestinian tribes, confirming their place in the Holy Land since Abraham's time. Identified as either the Ishmaelites or the Midianites -- the tribe led by Jethro that Moses married in to -- their symbol was always the moon, throughout the OT.

And if you know that simple fact, then plugging those symbols into the NT, instead of promising an early Armageddon John's Revelation at the end of the Christian Bible promises a happy ending for everyone.

Because there Israel is described as a woman clothed by the sun (Israel), crowned with the Jewish/Palestinian children of Israel/Rachel and Leah (Palestinian/Jewish unity), and supported by the moon (Islam).

And if Daniel's right we have at least 200 years to get there, to the place Jews and Palestinians live together as equals, and support human rights and freedoms for all in Israel in Peace: and 200 years is almost as long as America's been around!

I'll bet back then Thomas Jefferson didn't think an African-American would ever be President, either...

PhillipH
PhillipH

@David Liepert I REALLY don't think we have 200 years left.  Dear Leader has already expressed to the UN about the one -world government how he would like to see it and 'lead' the American Union.  The pope has met with high level religious leaders in an attempt to garner support for a 'unified' religion.  The Islamists are slowly taking over innocent, peaceful countries here in Asia.  The black flags are raising in America as we speak.  Better look around.  I don't know when it is coming, but it will be soon.

ltj ltj
ltj ltj like.author.displayName 1 Like

I certainly would like a much more detailed explanation of this 200 years to go.

The covenant could be as simple as the muslim's recognizing Israel as a nation - and that could be months, or it could be a 2 state solution - who knows?

But I firmly believe - all the things Jesus spoke of in Mathew 24 are happening at present and he says when we see all these things look up - redemption is here.

Melody Adams
Melody Adams like.author.displayName 1 Like

200 years?!! Krunk killer. I'm a pre-trib believer myself. I want it to be sooner rather than later. It's true things are very, very bad right now, but it's still nothing like it will be when God pours out His judgment. People have gotten the time-line wrong before, and Mr. Shoebat makes a compelling argument. What matters is that we are ready for whenever it is. I get chills thinking about it sometimes (the good kind of chills).

RKflorida
RKflorida

Well that is certainly a fine job of torturing scripture to present an Islam centric end times view. Everywhere this guy or his books travel dissension follows among Christians. I am certain of one thing, I can read and understand the entire bible without this guy's assistance. To those of you who are truly born again Christians I can only recommend that you keep your distance.

CO2isGood
CO2isGood

To refute Walid you need to be much more elaborate. Point by point, showing us the error of his interpretations. Otherwise, you are merely disparaging an obviously learned man.

RKflorida
RKflorida

No I don't. I gave warning, research it yourself or not. I don't need to write a lengthy essay. BTW what made you decided that he is "obviously learned"? If professing Christians jump on this bandwagon, so be it.

ltj ltj
ltj ltj

I haven't read all of your comments - but hope to do so. If I am repeating something - sorry.

I am very flexible on prophecy and have not bought completely into what Wallid believes, but am reading and listening.

I have formulated many alternate theories other than what I've been taught. Daniel 8 being one of them. Here I agree somewhat with Wallid, however, Daniel 8 says "an he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground".

This seems to me the "force" that comes at the ram extends from grecia farther to the west than he suggests, i.e. the whole earth meaning lots of nations, unless I am reading it wrong.

One side note here - since ancient warriors used horses and chariots - they had to touch the ground. This "force" is using planes, drones. sanctions or whatever.

Still working on trying to understand it completely, but he does add to many voids in prophecy that haven't made sense to date.

K-Bob
K-Bob

Still working my way through this.

I wish Mr. Phares had not used the word "nationalism." It doesn't really mean what I believe he is implying. Nationalism is a lot like tribalism, and tribalism is the source of racism.

I prefer a strong nation, held in firm control by the people, who may honorably prefer their own nation to all others. But I detest basic nationalist sentiment and policies, which are far more like the hooliganism that goes on in soccer.

soraja
soraja

a strong nation, held in firm control by the people, who may honorably prefer their own nation to all others

That is pure nationalism,

K-Bob
K-Bob

No, it's simply preference. When you choose a latte over a cup of truck stop java, that doesn't mean you are "dairyist."

Nationalism is the enactment of policies not based on simple defense, but on pride, jealousy, and other unconstitutional concepts. Things like protectionism, dumping, and government-instituted racism.

Did you know you cannot become a citizen of Germany unless your parents are German citizens? (unless they changed it recently) That's nationalism.

K-Bob
K-Bob

Definition #1 is simply redefining preference as nationalism, which is a silly thing to do; which clearly the author of that definition knows. Otherwise why go into so much elaboration on the second definition?

No one with any shred of desire to intellectually discuss the problems associated with genuine (definition #2) Nationalism, will bother to include soccer hooligans as part of the serious consequences.

More significantly, our founders built our nation around the concept of Personal Sovereignty. Your right to live your life for your own sake. Our national identity comes from that. It does not mean we are, as a nation, in favor of Nationalist policies. (Of course, Obama and company are so anti-Nationalist that they are doing their best to eliminate the very concept of nation, even while engaging in the nationalization of industry here.)

But Americans usually prefer our way of life. That's preference, no matter how many scholars fall all over themselves to declare otherwise.

soraja
soraja

1.1 The Basic Concept of Nationalism

Although the term “nationalism” has a variety of meanings, it centrally encompasses the two phenomena noted at the outset: (1) the attitude that the members of a nation have when they care about their identity as members of that nation and (2) the actions that the members of a nation take in seeking to achieve (or sustain) some form of political sovereignty (see for example, Nielsen 1998–9, 9). Each of these aspects requires elaboration. (1) raises questions about the concept of a nation or national identity, about what it is to belong to a nation, and about how much one ought to care about one's nation. Nations and national identity may be defined in terms of common origin, ethnicity, or cultural ties, and while an individual's membership in the nation is often regarded as involuntary, it is sometimes regarded as voluntary. The degree of care for one's nation that is required by nationalists is often, but not always, taken to be very high: according to such views, the claims of one's nation take precedence over rival contenders for authority and loyalty (see Berlin 1979, Smith 1991, Levy 2000, and the discussion in Gans 2003; for a more extreme characterization see the opening pages of Crosby 2005).

(2) raises questions about whether sovereignty entails the acquisition of full statehood with complete authority for domestic and international affairs, or whether something less than statehood would suffice. Although sovereignty is often taken to mean full statehood (Gellner 1983, ch. 1), more recently possible exceptions have been recognized (Miller 1992, 87 and Miller, 2000). Some authors defend even an anarchist version of patriotism-moderate nationalism, foreshadowed by Bakunin (see Robert Sparrow, “For the Union Makes Us Strong: Anarchism and Patriotism”, in Primoratz and Pavkovic 2007).

Despite these definitional worries, there is a fair amount of agreement about what is historically the most typical, paradigmatic form of nationalism. It is the one which features the supremacy of the nation's claims over other claims to individual allegiance, and which features full sovereignty as the persistent aim of its political program. Territorial sovereignty has traditionally been seen as a defining element of state power, and essential for nationhood. It was extolled in classic modern works by Hobbes, Locke, and Rousseau, and is coming back to the center stage of the debate, though philosophers are now more questioning and skeptical (see below). It is the control of the movement of money and people (in particular immigration) and the resource rights implied in territorial sovereignty that make the topic into a politically central one in the age of globalization, and philosophically interesting for nationalists and anti-nationalists alike.

The territorial state as political unit is seen by nationalists as centrally ‘belonging’ to one ethnic-cultural group, and actively charged with protecting and promulgating its traditions. This form is exemplified by the classical, “revivalist” nationalism, that was most prominent in the 19th century in Europe and Latin America. This classical nationalism later spread across the world, and in present days still marks many contemporary nationalisms.

stanford.edu/entries/nationalism/

335blues
335blues

The anti-christ might be erdogan or it might not be erdogan himself, but perhaps a successor. It is very interesting that all 7 churches of Revelation are in "asia" and happen to be in turkey.

squidbreath
squidbreath

I come from a background that said roman catholicism was the end times bad guy rather than islam. It never quite added up to me. But, if it is islam, then how do you factor in the various time prophecies: a) time, times and half a time of daniel 7, and b) 2300 days prophecy of daniel 8.

soraja
soraja

If i understand it well jesus and the mahdi are coming after a big war .

ain,t that nice !!???

The lords of peace , yep, i know you have to believe it.

Would be nice jesus and the mahdi ridding on nuclear cruise missiles.

That would be heavenly firework , !!

I,am more than happy that i go to the atheistic hell because your heaven is for me a bit to strange , more a hell to me.

CO2isGood
CO2isGood

Perhaps you do not understand it so well.

.....this may be the beginning of a better understanding--or the continuation of ignorance.

soraja
soraja

The word ignorant is an adjective describing a person in the state of being unaware and is often used as an insult to describe individuals who deliberately ignore or disregard important information or facts.

You make a common mistake, believing is not the same as knowing based on facts !

And information without a factual base are complete worthless to me.

So there you are whit you christian morality, insulting whit out a factual base.

intelligent design, in your case he forgot the intelligent part.

CO2isGood
CO2isGood

Well if I made a mistake regarding your ignorance, then I will apply the same mistake to myself and all others. We are all ignorant of many things. Nobody in this physical world can claim not to be.

I wish I could speak Vietnamese, but I can not and am to lazy to try to learn, so I will remain ignorant of that particular language.

The trick, is to always be trying to become not ignorant about something.

soraja
soraja

A ha the million dollar question will the real god stand up, or are you telling me now that the god of the koraan is the same as the god of the bible ?

Please enlighten me !

soraja
soraja

Nope, i,am not searching for a belief system, i am a hard core atheist.

And about thats ignorance and searching for the truth, when are you ready to start ??

Believing is different from knowing on the base of facts !

By the way, you are an atheist to, i go just one belief further !

CO2isGood
CO2isGood

I am not telling you anything you do not already know. Since, you are questioning here, you are apparently traveling a road in search of a belief-system you can live/die with.

All I am saying, is that it is a choice we all have to make about how we wish to live our lives...searching for truths, or just plodding along in ignorance.

What G-d you choose to believe in/or not, is, of course, up to you.

57thunderbird
57thunderbird

Hell is eternal separation from the loving God.I feel sad for you.It is only your lack of understanding that causes you to feel the way you do.

soraja
soraja

do not feel sad i, am harpy whit it and you want me happy ??

Chris
Chris

Don't forget it is at the same time a full understanding of the love of God and that it was a personal decision to remove oneself from that love.

Chris
Chris

My incorrect premise being? Trying for specifics here...

soraja
soraja

Because your premise is wrong, same mistake the mo slims make that the koraan are the words of the allah god !

so al logical extension on a wrong premise are wrong

Chris
Chris

Why don't you "buy" that? Is scripture meant to be taken literally, word for word, as truth? There is no imagery or analogies used?

soraja
soraja

Yep i understand you well and it is the same old same

You set a premise as a factual truith and from there you try to make a logical extending.

I read and hear that a 1000 times , I do not buy that.

Chris
Chris

An understanding of Hell can be gained by considering what we know of God from scripture and logically extending using a philosophical structure-- this is called Theology.

Using Theology we can arrive at an understanding (not full) that Hell is a privation of God (all evil is a privation of good, Hell being the most deprived state). God sustains all creation in existence, therefore while one may choose (free will) to sin and accept Hell over God, God still holds that sinner in existence (out of love) yet now in a perfected state one becomes fully aware (my full knowledge comment) of how exactly God exists (love, but a total understanding we are not yet able to comprehend) AND at the same time, that through one's own free will God is now unattainable-- because the sinner has chosen him/herself over God.

It's basically the Garden of Eden all over again, banished from paradise because the sinner didn't want to listen to the wisdom of God. The full consequence of prideful defiance of the wisdom of God isn't known until Adam and Eve are cast out of paradise.

Hope this helps you understand what I was saying. In summary, in Hell one gains a full understanding-- I, not being in Heaven or Hell, do not currently possess such understanding.

soraja
soraja

what is it now full understanding ore not ?

Jees read your last comment again , no hell for me , i do not understand it neither for you, you are claiming that you are not fully understand it so ??

no hell and heaven , so forget the rest, don,t be afraid, free yourself from the fear ore what some people call love .

You can do it !

Chris
Chris

Not exactly sure what you mean by this. I'm not claiming that I have that full understanding-- What I'm saying is Hell involved a full understanding of what we freely chose to reject, which is the love of God. That is at the heart of the torments of Hell.

soraja
soraja

a ha, a full understanding of of the love of god, and you are the privileged one

911Infidel
911Infidel

No the Mahdi the real dijal will be defeated and destroyed by the real Nahdi which is Christ. Allah is not God. If you understood that you'd take a different view of heaven. It isn't the Jihadi paradise spoken of in the Muslim trilogy. the alternative is much worse than the Muhammed described.

soraja
soraja

You have a problem here 1500,000,000 people think that allah is the real god.

lets fight about it who is right, oke ?

O i know the gods are coming back to earth ridding nukes to have a battle for the believers.

For me is that complete insane, so fill the rest in by yourself

But i wanna make you a bit happy, i,am more at your side if shit hits the fan, want so far i know you don,t want to kill me as being an atheist, mo slims will be more than happy to separate mine head from my body.

Bur after the big heavenly battle will you lock me up in a re education camp for atheist ??

Can i trust you ?

I will deal whit your god by myself, or are you as mo slims are the guardians of your god and think you have to fulfill his wishes on earth.

911Infidel
911Infidel

So I'm right. You have no facts. All you have is visceral, emotional vituperative drivel to back up your arguements. I've heard many an atheist defend their side and one or two were very good. Can't say the same for you. Your reply is illogical. One reply, you say you know that Christians aren't like Muslims, in the next reply, you say they are. Make up your mind. My strength is in Christ. Yours is in frail and mortal humans. Your god is you.

soraja
soraja

Nope i,am her to make clear that the battle in front of us must be not an religious battle on our side but one on facts, that god thing is contra productive you will lose a lot of support for the cause.

More an antagonist

And are you now asking me about facts about religion ???

I have a weird perception about spiritual things ! jees and the believers tell us that the god,s are coming to wipe out 1.5 milliard people !!

That is sick !!!!

Let me explain is so

If you continue whit that shit of my god is better than an other god you are losing my support.

Because i see you the same as the islamic idiots.

And do not be self-righteousness about my spiritual being, you do not know anything about it, not one letter.

You have the same mental problem as a lot of other believers.

Keep your faith private and do not use it as an argument , argue on base of facts !

So you will gain strength !

911Infidel
911Infidel

Ah so you're just here to be a protagonist huh? And you don't have any facts to offer. All you got is some weird perception of spiritual things. Yeah, you're not a great English speaker. But I got your points. Apparently you missed the lionshare of mine.

soraja
soraja

Just some remarks

The Allah-believers will be slaughtered by the real God in Israel in the greatest land battle in all of history. In the end their false prophet and his false god will be cast into hell. They got the problem.

and :You’re free to be whatever you want to be. Real Itah gives you that right.

me : a strange conception of freedom , you do what god say otherwise i kill you !! in this the god, s are the same !! or is it there earthly guardians ??

me: English is not my native tongue

You’ll have to go to North Korea or China if you are looking for a re-education camp

me: you sure about that, fema camps ?? or will i be killed by the god,s because i do not fit in that gog and magog picture !

The rest of you reaction leave i for what it is, : to much work to for me to show you the facts and the incorrect statements.

911Infidel
911Infidel

1. “You have a problem here 1500,000,000 people think that allah is the real god.”

Me: Doesn’t matter. The Allah-believers will be slaughtered by the real God in Israel in the greatest land battle in all of history. In the end their false prophet and his false god will be cast into hell. They got the problem.

2. “lets fight about it who is right, oke ?”

Me: Your English is vague. Or see #1

3. “O i know the gods are coming back to earth ridding nukes to have a battle for the elievers.For me is that complete insane, so fill the rest in by yourself”

Me: Not for me it is not. I’m not an atheist or a Muslim. My God IS Itah. Allah is not.

4.But i wanna make you a bit happy, i,am more at your side if shit hits the fan, want so far i know you don,t want to kill me as being an atheist, mo slims will be more than happy to separate mine head from my body.

Me: I already know that. Go check out all the atheists at IslamWatch. They are all saying the same thing.

6. Bur after the big heavenly battle will you lock me up in a re education camp for atheist ??

Me: You’ll have to go to North Korea or China if you are looking for a re-education camp.After the big battle it won’t be up to Christians to judge where you end up.

7. Can i trust you ?

What’s the old Russian proverb? Trust but verify?

8. I will deal whit your god by myself, or are you as mo slims are the guardians of your god and think you have to fulfill his wishes on earth.

Me: Muslims convert by force or stealth. Christians convert by reason and argumentation alone. Christians just follow the Scriptures, they don’t go out and slaughter the whole world. Don’t confuse Koran, Hadith with Christian Bible. The two philosophies are diametrically opposed to one another. Our mission is to try and convince people to turn away from sin and to accept Christ as Lord and Savior. Cause that’s the only way anyone is going to heaven. Muslim paradise doesn’t exist.But Hell sure does. So the object of the game is to try and convince others to avoid the fate of hell. That's our God's will on earth as well as Heaven.

You’re free to be whatever you want to be. Real Itah gives you that right. Fake Itah (Allah) does not.

ltj ltj
ltj ltj

You do know the global world order is here. You do know the one world currency is going to happen. You do know the mark of the beast where you can't buy or sell is coming. We do see Nation rising against nation, kingdom against kingdom, knowledge increased - everyone is offended - world turning against christians, I could go on and on forever.

All prophesied in the bible. Happening before our eyes.

Jesus said when you "SEE" (web cams live as they occur) ALL these thing (we do) look up things are gonna change drastically.

When they tell you to take the mark of the beast - I think you better think long and very hard about it before you do. You DO NOT want to know what comes next if you do.

Conniption Fitz
Conniption Fitz

Joel Rosenberg, a messianic Christian, has written a series of novels about Biblical prophecy and the end times. They are worth reading. The next novel in the second series is due in early March.

squeakyb
squeakyb

Thought I would share this link to a pastor who does weekly prophecy updates. If you go to his you tube site you can go through hundreds of previous videos, these are videos of his sermons in his church. Aloha Bible prophecy pastor JD Farag.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kveRDFZQJWg&feature=share&list=UUkz3m787ygph7Uvjxzngl-g

Marridge
Marridge

I would very much like to recommend the videos of Pastor JD Farag. i have been watching them for a year now. Thousands of people watch them and can't wait for them to be posted on Youtube every Sunday evening.

spin43
spin43

Many times one must see the bad to appreciate the good. Obama and his followers are the evil in this country. Will we see any good come to pass from this rocky road?

Philo Beddoe
Philo Beddoe

Heck of a situation to be right about. :-o