Rand Paul clarifies immigration proposal: I’m not offering a new path to citizenship for illegals

Rand Paul says that if illegals in this country want to work, then he wants to give them a work visa so they can go ahead and pay taxes like any other working American. However he is not offering these same illegals a new path to citizenship. Rather, he says, we just won’t deport them and if they want to get in line like everyone else to enter the country legally and become an American Citizen, they are welcome to do that. But there is no new path – they must use the existing one.

Watch:

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  • PeterLeaman1

    And people still say he is trying for amnesty. No one listen these days. Rand Paul has a plan that both sides can agree on and start to make improvements.

    • c4pfan

      No, he doesn’t.  It’s no different than the others.

    • Amjean

      PeterLeaman1  Well, I agree with you.

      • OneThinDime

        Amjean PeterLeaman1 Of course you do, you are a Liberal-Lite PaulBot.  I hope the illegal aliens reside in your city and bankrupt it with their massive crime and filth.

        • PeterLeaman1

          OneThinDime Amjean PeterLeaman1 Well someone is off their meds.

        • OneThinDime

          PeterLeaman1 OneThinDime Amjean Go away PaulBot, because of you and Amjean, we have Obama for 4 more years.  It’s the PaulBots that have too many illegal drugs in their system that are the main problem in our election.

        • OneThinDime
        • PeterLeaman1

          OneThinDime PeterLeaman1 Amjean That is the best you got? Lowering yourselfto name calling? Who are you? A democrat? First, I voted for Romney (what a sad mistake that was). Second, I don’t do drugs. Third, you are a sad excuse for a conservative.

        • OneThinDime

          PeterLeaman1 OneThinDime Amjean You and Amjean are clearly PaulBots.  I doubt you voted for Romney and for you to say that was a mistake shows your true colors.  At best you are a PaulBot, more likely a Dem troll.  Enjoy your illegals.

        • PeterLeaman1

          OneThinDime PeterLeaman1 Amjean hahaha thanks for the laugh. The fact that you won’t acknowledge Romney as a mistake, shows your true colors. Instead of calling me a PaulBot or Demo Troll, why don’t you admit that you are a liberal who believes in big government?

        • PeterLeaman1

          OneThinDime PeterLeaman1 Amjean Why do you hate liberty so much?

        • PeterLeaman1

          OneThinDime PeterLeaman1 Amjean I would of loved to see you in the 1770’s. “Oh, they are just a bunch of WashingtonBots. Wanting freedom.” Apparently, that is your only comeback for any type of opposition. Just like a Democrat… Starting to see the pattern here?

        • K-Bob

          OneThinDime Amjean PeterLeaman1 Everyone: If you avoid the construct “you are a” and instead direct your comment at the Ron Paul believers, in general, it won’t come off as a personal attack.
          I know it takes more typing.  Irritates me, too, but we have to do it to be statesmen. (Hah!) Or at least not like the left.

        • K-Bob

          PeterLeaman1 OneThinDime Amjean Yes.  It’s called flame wars, and it’s not allowed, per the http://www.therightscoop.com/the-right-scoop-commenting-rules/.
          You guys have had your fun.

    • OneThinDime

      PeterLeaman1 Failing to enforce laws and punish law breakers is amnesty.

  • c4pfan

    Yeah, right.  Don’t deport them if they break the law?  LOL  Please!

    • OneThinDime

      c4pfan Great point!  the 9/11 terrorists were all here on expired VISAS, they would have been given a smile and a reward for breaking our laws just before they murdered thousands of our citizens, including CHILDREN.  So I ask Mr. Paul, why are you threatening the lives of CHILDREN by allowing illegal aliens to remain in our country?

  • jcrichichi

    The issue is no side will ever be happy. You have one side who is “MAKE THEM ALL CITIZENS!” and you have the other “DEPORT THEM ALL” you’ll never make both sides happy. So to think there is a compromise between the two sides is ridiculous.
    My mom is an Italian immigrant, she came here legally, I think any “amnesty” offered to illegals would be like flipping the birds to those waiting in line and a slap across the face to those who came here the right way.
    The only solution I can see that is viable is the barring of citizenship to those who are illegal. Meaning because they chose to stay here and admit they came here illegally that they are relinquishing their right to ever become a Citizen of the United States.
    The only exception, I repeat the ONLY exception is if the illegal immigrant wants to serve in our Military.

    • OneThinDime

      jcrichichi I for one do not want illegal aliens in our military.  We don’t need to subject our brave men and women to illegals who flip the bird at our Constitution and our laws.
      You are correct that legal immigrants are punished and so are American born citizens.  We bear the costs and are tossed into prison if caught working for cash and not paying taxes.

      • jcrichichi

        OneThinDime jcrichichi I hope you didn’t think I was implying they join our military, I’m talking more about the few who thought they were legal and born here who are part of our military only to learn they are illegal.

        • OneThinDime

          Thanks for the clarification.  One of Obama’s and the Gang of 8’s pushes are for illegals to serve in the military or go to college and receive citizenship for it.

    • K-Bob

      jcrichichi That’s a false dichotomy. It comes from the debate being framed by the left, and Conservatives falling for that stupid framing.  If conservatives would attempt to maintain some mental discipline on this issue, they could have a prayer of getting a decent solution, but they fall for the left’s talking points and splutter inanities in response.
      We need two things to get some clarity on the issue:Conservatives must stop calling it an “Immigration Issue” or problem. It is not.  We have an “Illegal Alien” problem.On the right, we need to have a debate about what is and is not “amnesty.” We do not have any clarity on that term at all (and the pure-deportation concept merely avoids the issue).

  • GetWhatYouPayFor

    Time to get off the stage, Rand. We have heard enough double talk for now.

  • uncmetsgal

    I *still* think that the problem would solve itself if the LAWS were enforced.  If you’re illegal, you can’t be hired.  If you’re illegal, you can’t get government assistance of ANY kind.  If you’re illegal, you get deported upon discovery, and your whole illegal family with you.  If you’re illegal, you don’t automatically have children who are recognized as citizens simply because you squeezed out a puppy once you crossed the Rio Grande.  And, we need to reverse the thinking that these kids are entitled to an education.  No school, no medical help, no government assistance, no housing, no jobs…  Yeah, they’re really gonna stick around.   Our leaders just want the voting bloc.  That’s it, and the rest of us be damned.
    This is going to get REALLY ugly before it ever gets any better (if ever), unfortunately.  I am finally convinced of this eventuality.

    • uncmetsgal 
      Add in no driving license and no bank accounts to that list. 
      Companies who are caught hiring illegal aliens fined 10 grand per offense per illegal alien.

      • OneThinDime

        WolfieUSA uncmetsgal Please be careful with fining employers. e-Verify is horrible. The illegals are using other people’s documents to get jobs.  e-Verify needs to tell the employer the person has 16 jobs in 12 states.  If an employer is then caught, I agree, fine them, but they need proper tools and correct information and they need to be able to run e-Verify BEFORE they offer the job, not afterwards.

        • OneThinDime WolfieUSA uncmetsgal 
          Oh I agree with all you said.  But if VISA and AMeX can tell straight away if your credit card is over when you try to buy something, the Gov’ment should be able to set up something to check the status of anyone seeking employment.  A National ID card perhaps?  Could double as ID for voting as well to prevent the abuse there.

        • OneThinDime

          When I traveled to other countries, I had to provide the name and address of my client, the hotel I was staying at, the purpose of my trip. When I had to stay 2 extra days in England, I had to go through HUGE paperwork to extend my stay.  If I didn’t leave the country, they would have gone to my client to find me.

        • K-Bob

          OneThinDime WolfieUSA uncmetsgal We can get TSA to handle it.  They’ll do a swell job!

        • OneThinDime

          Saw that the TSA has employed murderers, rapists and pedophiles. Gives me soooo much comfort.  It just shows that the gov’t fails at everything.  Look at the suggestions we have made related to e-Verify to make it more successful and we did it for free.

        • 12grace

          WolfieUSAOneThinDimeuncmetsgal
          I agree with what you said except about the National ID.1.Irvin Baxter – The National I.D. Card

           http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFQEFuPOJ2E
          2.Immigration Reform Biometrics National ID Card and Microchips 2013 The Year of The
           http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCMc2MHlkF0

        • 12grace

          OneThinDime 
          England is over, unfortunately. 
          And the same things that are happening in England are coming to our shores.

          1.Aaron Russo’s Documentary ”America Freedom To Fascism” Dir cut.

           http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKeaw7HPG04
          2.Aaron Russo’s – MAD AS HELL – 1 of 11 

          3 Aaron Russo’s Last Message To Humanity 
           http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8f85mSQKq6w&playnext=1&list=PL2470C19AA9E728B4&feature=results_mainReflections And Warnings – An Interview With Aaron Russo {Full Film}

        • 12grace WolfieUSA OneThinDime uncmetsgal Fair enough 12grace, I’m just ranting a bit,  this issue winds me up.

    • OneThinDime

      uncmetsgal Yes, yes, yes and yes! When are you running for office? Why isn’t Trey Gowdy, Mr. Rule of Law, saying EXACTLY what you said?

      • uncmetsgal

        OneThinDime I appreciate your accolades! 🙂  I went to the Reagan Library last year, and hubby snapped a photo of me at the presidential podium.  I posted it to Facebook, and all my friends were like, “I’d SO vote for you!”  And I was like, “Sorry, guys, I was born in Italy, and even though I am an American citizen by virtue of my mom, and under the Obama rules, I’d qualify for Pres., I wouldn’t sh!t all over the Constitution like that.  So, I’m not eligible.”  LOL  
        But, seriously…  I am sometimes reminded of the Godfather.  When Clemenza is talking to Mike:
        Michael:
        How bad do you think it’s gonna be?
        Clemenza:
        Pretty goddam bad. Probably all the other Families will line up against us. That’s all right. These things gotta happen every five years or so, ten years. Helps to get rid of the bad blood. Been ten years since the last one. You know, you gotta stop them at the beginning. Like they should have stopped Hitler at Munich, they should never let him get away with that, they was just asking for trouble.

        I think we’re there…  Needing to get rid of the bad blood….  But maybe that’s just me. 🙂

        • OneThinDime

          uncmetsgal OneThinDime You don’t have to run for POTUS, we need true Conservatives in the House and Senate!  And for those, you most certainly qualify and are NECESSARY!
          The tree of liberty…..

    • deTocqueville1

      uncmetsgal The education and health care costs are additional issues which need sorting out. The devil is in the details. If someone is working, are they doing so illegally? One must assume so and if so are they paying taxes? We need further clarification on assessing who qualifies and implementation but in principle I think he starts from a practical position.

      • uncmetsgal

        deTocqueville1 I don’t have a problem with Rand’s proposal (or even Rubio’s) because I believe he (they) are operating from a position of ‘good intentions’.
        That said, the left is never going to stop there.  They will push for all-out citizenship for these people.  That’s the goal.  They waited 100 years for government-run healthcare, so we know that have the patience.  The end-game is a voting bloc that keeps ANY Republican from EVER winning another national election (and probably turns Texas blue).  That’s party-suicide and worse, national suicide.  That is why I think there should be ZERO effort by Republicans on this issue.

        • OneThinDime

          uncmetsgal deTocqueville1 You do realize that all illegal aliens are entitled to medical care under ObamaCare right?  And they are exempt from having to have insurance or pay the individual mandate penalty.

        • uncmetsgal

          OneThinDime deTocqueville1 Mark Levin was talking about this last night.  If I understood him correctly, the push is ON for ObamaCare to cover illegals, but that isn’t a part of the law, at least not yet.  
          Is that incorrect?

        • deTocqueville1

          uncmetsgal deTocqueville1 Agreed.

        • deTocqueville1

          OneThinDime uncmetsgal deTocqueville1 Apparently as Levin and others are suggesting. Perhaps another reason to look at Rand’s proposal as a starting point for discussion.

        • deTocqueville1

          uncmetsgal OneThinDime deTocqueville1 Ah, okay, that makes more sense.

        • patriot077

          uncmetsgal OneThinDime deTocqueville1 Wasn’t it that point that caused Joe Wilson to shout out “you lie” during the SOTU speech? I think there is language in more than one part that gives them the opening, but I can’t recall the specifics.

    • M_J_S

      uncmetsgal If they legalize illegality based on racial reasons, than I’m throwing in the towel will stop and evade all income taxes and following any laws.  Enough is enough.

      • uncmetsgal

        M_J_S I think there is HUGE potential in your argument.  There are not enough “detention” centers (or whatever) if a massive amount of people just start ignoring federal laws (peacefully, of course).  Will that win the day?  I don’t know.  But I think it’s going to be a GREAT place to start.

  • Says there is no path to citizenship for criminal illegal aliens and then tells them can get in line and become a citizen anyway.  He won me over a little last week with his epic filibuster, and then this week, he lost me completely again.  I feel I am not the only Conservative he lost.  He’s just like Rubio and Gramnasty and the other RINOS.  At least that’s how I see him now.

    • OneThinDime

      WolfieUSA And if illegals want to work they can have a VISA.  Here’s a clue Rand Paul, deport the illegals, require Americans on welfare, unemployment and food stamps to work!  Failing to prosecute illegal aliens for tax evasion (federal offense, prison sentences) = amnesty.

      • M_J_S

        OneThinDime WolfieUSA You’re damn straight! Enough with the contorting already. It. Is. WRONG.
        Why in the hell should any citizen pay THEIR taxes, and obey THEIR laws if these fiends can do whatever the hell they want and get access to my tax dollars?!

      • KenDeBreeze

        OneThinDime WolfieUSA I have no problem with Rand’s proposal. There’s no way on earth we can afford to deport 12million people and it would require a police state to do so. This whole allowing them to apply for citizenship down the line is contingent upon Congress saying the border is secure and this vote/discussion happens every year for 5 years to get the ball rolling. Also, while you’re right in that entitlements should be linked to work, going with the premise that these poorer people are degenerates is a losing tactic a la Romney. The bottom line is, anyone that comes up with any sort of plan on immigration is raked over the coals and nothing is acceptable. Rubio, Graham and Bush were pushing amnesty and Rand is not, yet people want to put their heads down and say it is. Whatever, you don’t want Rand, you got nothing in the wings for presidential material. Good night, govt will continue to grow and you won’t have a fiscal hawk like Rand there to stop it. Brilliant!!

        • OneThinDime

          Rand Paul is far from a fiscal hawk, he would disclose the $4.6 trillion dollar price tag for amnesty which does not include the additional unemployment, welfare and food stamps that will be paid to American citizens because they cannot find work. Doubt it? Check out the Heritage Foundation.  Perhaps Rand should go back to raising his son, the one with the alcohol problem before he thinks he can run a country.

        • 12grace

          KenDeBreezeOneThinDimeWolfieUSA/ Save Money: Deport All Illegal Aliens
          Save Money: Deport All Illegal Aliens
           http://www.westernjournalism.com/save-money-deport-all-illegal-aliens/
          The Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) released a study, http://www.fairus.org/site/News2/708226221?page=NewsArticle&id=23190&security=1601&news_iv_ctrl=1761, stating http://www.fairus.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=23198&security=1601&news_iv_ctrl=1741 in benefits at the local, state, and federal levels combined.
          Under the most liberal estimate, the five-year cost of deporting
          every illegal immigrant in the United States would pay for itself in 2.5
          years. It would be just 14 months according to ICE.
          Over ten years, the United States would save $1.13 trillion, or $845
          billion in the first decade minus CAP’s estimated deportation cost.

        • KenDeBreeze

          OneThinDime First off, it’s not uncommon for young college kids to consume alcohol, did it myself back then and still here. You honestly think that Rand or someone of similar mindset would vote in favor of more welfare and food stamps? If he’s such a libertarian to some, it’s obvious that he’d be against that sort of thing. He’s against Ryan’s new 10-yr budget plan because it increases spending 3.4%. There’s plenty of politicians that don’t uphold their oath of office and Rand certainly isn’t one of them.

    • stage9

      WolfieUSA I remarked last week that libertarians are like mormons. Mormons have all of the makings of a Christian — they believe in moral values; they love family and marriage; they believe in the Bible (to a point) —  that is until you start digging a little deeper and realize that they’ve jumped ship into some pretty bizarre things. 
      The best advice is to just stay clear of them entirely.

      • K-Bob

        stage9 WolfieUSA We folks on the right can work with them, and we must, but we have to operate under the concept of clarity. Rand is not a conservative. He should just declare that openly, like I do.
        Declare it, Rand!  It won’t hurt a bit!

        I love conservatives, despite my many disagreements with them, but I wouldn’t insult their intelligence by pretending they need to be more like me. Just like Mark Levin fights hard against Christian bashers,  I can’t stand the libertarian and Rockerfeller types who bash conservatives, and I fight against that crap when I can.

      • KenDeBreeze

        stage9 WolfieUSA You’re not going to beat the left if there isn’t coalitions between conservative factions and libertarians, sorry. Staying clear of them means telling them to vote third party or stay home, either way republicans lose. I’m a delegate in the MIGOP and we need every libertarian we can muster to bolster our republican ranks. We also need libertarians to side with us against the establishment insiders. Say what you want and nickel and dime the differences but Reagan said in 1976 that libertarianism is the heart and soul of fiscal conservatism. W/o libertarian influence on fiscal matters, we end up with establishment big spenders like Bush, Boehner and the lot.

        • 12grace

          KenDeBreezestage9WolfieUSA 
           I like the Constitution party.
          Constitution Party National Platform
           http://www.constitution-party.net/party_platform.php

  • deTocqueville1

    Well, well.  This is fine. I like it. This now clarifies things very well and it is in very clear contradistinction with the ‘gang of whatever at the moment’. I could never understnd even why a student in the Country on a student VISA who was offered a job upon graduation could not apply for citizenship without going home.
    Streamlining is a good thing. Furthermore there should be a reform of the system to target skilled immigrants from similar cultures (Europe, Canada, Australia, NZ, etc.) and those from systems where there is a history of parliamentary democracy such as India. It would be helpful if a candidate for 2016 stepped forward with a comprehensive immigration policy. Paul’s is a great first step and I am glad he clarified it because he left out the ‘stand in line part’ before.

    • K-Bob

      deTocqueville1 I don’t mind if people here legally apply for citizenship, even while on a time-limited visa.  It means they have already been through whatever (government quality, but still) review process that attaches to all forms of immigration.
      Rand is legalizing the illegals’ residency, which means they have not been through the process, but they get to stay here anyway. 
      We should just tell lefties to pick any European country, anyone at all, since they all LOVE Europe, and we’ll just adopt their immigration laws.  None of *them* want illegals either. (qualifier–the EU Parliament of dictators is doing their best to destroy the concept of legal immigration there).

      • K-Bob deTocqueville1 
        All to true.  Legal immigrants have to go through health and police background checks (both in their own country and here) as well as an FBI background check, they have to be fingerprinted and ID’ed   None of this applies to some fence jumper!

        • deTocqueville1

          WolfieUSA K-Bob deTocqueville1 I interpret him to be in favour of all of these things you itemize.

      • CharlesDent

        K-BobdeTocqueville1What’s not conservative about him? He supports right to life
        legislation, opposes bailouts, opposes restrictions on faith in schools,
        is a fiscal hawk, supports israel, doesn’t support foreign aid to
        israels allies… if that isn’t conservative I hate to see what is. You
        guys probably think John McCain is a conservative.

        • K-Bob

          CharlesDent K-Bob deTocqueville1 Libertarians are not conservatives.  It’s not that difficult.
          Your last line makes you out to be a noob who is totally unfamiliar with this site, or anything written by the regulars here.

        • CharlesDent

          So right to life legislation is libertarian? That’s news to me. Name
          calling and not defending your positions is very professional K-Bob. I
          asked a simple question. What makes him a libertarian and not
          conservative? He hasn’t identified himself as a libertarian. I think you
          are just imposing his fathers identity upon him who everyone knows is not a conservative. 
          Of course I know McCain isn’t a conservative and that you know that. I want to know what makes Rand Paul not a conservative.

      • deTocqueville1

        K-Bob deTocqueville1 The problem I see is that no-one will ever deport all of these people. So, some system needs to be devised to bring them into legitimacy over time. Otherwise, they remain illegal and here.

  • KzPage

    #DontStandWithRand has started . Great article on how he is SO WRONG on this one. >>> http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/343384/dontstandwithrand-mark-krikorian

    • LizRodgers

      KzPage Thanks for the link.

      • KzPage

        LizRodgers KzPage your welcome . I thought it was right on the money. I thought they good points worth talking about but I’m worried that RP fans dont want to hear it.

    • OneThinDime

      KzPage Thank you! That’s a great article!

  • LizRodgers

    It doesn’t  matter that it’s not a path to citizenship; Democrats will
    just change the rules later to make them citizens. Rand Paul will force Americans to compete for jobs.   He is playing word games and there is nothing
    pro-American about his plan.   LaRaza likes it ,o there you
    go.

    • OneThinDime

      LizRodgers Considering the EEOC is going after employers for not hiring felons, you are correct. An illegal doesn’t get hired, goes to the EEOC, the EEOC goes after the employer, the employer shuts the company down and everyone loses their jobs.  Happens every single day.

  • I’m out of here before the other PaulBots arrive.

    • PeterLeaman1

      WolfieUSA Yay!

      • M_J_S

        PeterLeaman1 WolfieUSA RuPaul go home you lunatic. There is a reason you go NOWHERE

        • K-Bob

          M_J_S PeterLeaman1 WolfieUSA Careful, that can be parsed to seem like you directed the L word at a commenter.

          (Clearly he means Ron Paul, folks, which is fair game because he’s a public figure)

  • 1vote

    Rand is trying to steak out a position that is commensurate for POTUS..Trying to be a voice of reason that alienates neither side.-good luck!

    We saw Clinton #2 issue her gay marriage position the other day for the same reason.  These people just put a finger to the wind .

  • Rshill7

    Ok, I’d like to challenge every last one of you to a duel 🙂

    • stage9

      Rshill7 That’s too exhausting. Can’t we just see who can spit the farthest?

    • Laurel A

      Rshill7 Reach for the sky! 😉

    • K-Bob

      Rshill7 Hmm.  Needs a better term, though.  What would a many-on-many fight be?  I mean, other than a brawl.  Something as quaint as the word “duel.”

      • Rshill7

        Yes indeed. Weapons of choice: Banjo and Guitar
        You know, a duel. 
        I suppose I could call it a Bluegrass Festival.

        • K-Bob

          Rshill7 Hah!  Good one.

        • K-BobRshill7 

          (C’mon, someone was bound to post this! 🙂  )

      • colliemum

        K-Bob Rshill7 It’s called a “melee” – they did that in the middle ages: two big groups of mounted knights bashing each other until one last man left standing (or sitting on his horse).

  • Laurel A

    Smoke and mirrors.

    Tell me if they are so poor that they have to come here illegally then what taxes are they going to pay exactly? How many times do the numbers have to be presented to the numbskulls in congress that illegals take on average $19,000 per year out of the federal government. In real terms…they took out what ever is paid into the government then another $19,000 per year.
    The sheer fact that he wants them to stay, keep property, no exculpatory fines, no nothing is amnesty. Pure and simple. I gotta say it makes Dubya’s plan look better everyday and that plan allowed for criminals to stay.

  • cabensg

    I said I was over Rand and I meant it. I have no comment on what he said or will say in the future. 
    I don’t believe in isolationism, abandoning drug laws or allowing illegals to stay here (sanctuary cities anyone). So if he totally abandons all libertarian ideas I disagree with (riiiight) I’ll reconsider listening to him. Until then goodbye Rand.

    • westskier11

      cabensg In other words, you’re not a conservative in favor of limited and constitutional government.

      • K-Bob

        westskier11 cabensg Relabeling libertarianism as conservatism isn’t going to fool anyone, and it will make real libertarians angry.

        • Laurel A

          K-Bob westskier11 cabensg But that is exactly what they are trying to do. I have been warning of this for a few weeks now and keep getting the same Alinsky type attack that westskier11 is doing along with that other fellow.

        • westskier11

          K-Bob westskier11 cabensg What? Its called getting the Federal Govt out of our lives. It used to be conservatism before ego maniacs and frauds took over.

        • westskier11

          Laurel A K-Bob westskier11 cabensg Oh dear God. These type of comments really hurt. Just admit that you are a centrist, who wants the Federal Govt to be large and invasive about stuff you care about.

        • K-Bob

          westskier11 K-Bob cabensg Ah, sorry, I should have said “neo-libertarian.” An actual libertarian wouldn’t make those sorts of comments.

        • K-Bob

          westskier11 Laurel A K-Bob cabensg Because we refuse to accept your relabeling means we love big government?
          I suggest you look up the term non sequitur.

        • westskier11

          K-Bob westskier11 Laurel A cabensg Its called constitutional and fiscal conservatism.  Just admit, to quote you “declare it” that you dont care about either.

        • K-Bob

          Laurel A K-Bob westskier11 cabensg Yeah, the neo-libertarians have been trying to do this for years.  It’s kind of sad, really.  They keep tying to label conservatives as “neo-cons,” which shows they have never bothered to pick up a book and learn anything about the various factions.
          It’s as self-deprecating as whan people wear those stupid “Che” tee shirts.

        • K-Bob

          westskier11 K-Bob Laurel A cabensg You have no idea what we care about. You’ve made your point, which is an old one we’ve dealt with here many, many times, and all it does is antagonize people, so drop it.

        • westskier11

          K-Bob Laurel A westskier11 cabensg The term “neo conservative” fits you nicely. Former trotskyites who only care about legislating and perpetuating statism and warfare.

        • K-Bob

          westskier11 K-Bob You just won a time-out. Some day when you learn to debate without slander, pretending to know what people are thinking, and ridiculous accusations, you can come back.

        • westskier11 K-Bob Laurel A cabensg  
          Look what the Rand Paul cat dragged in… 🙁

        • K-Bob

          WolfieUSA westskier11 K-Bob Laurel A cabensg 
          Yep. He just Trotsky’d right in with it!

        • cabensg

          Laurel A K-Bob westskier11 cabensg  I also knew this was the goal but was willing to give Rand a pass as far as his actions as a Senator because it’s what all Republican Senators should be doing.

  • stage9

    I am thoroughly confused….you have to “get in line”, but you don’t have to leave the country to “get in line”??
    HUH?
    I thought the point of the whole “getting in line” process presupposed that you would LEAVE THE COUNTRY. 
    Otherwise, you’re not “in line”, you’re “IN COUNTRY” and you thereby negate the whole “getting in line” concept.
    Maybe I’m just not as well versed in revolving politi-speech.

    • Laurel A

      stage9 Congress and Rand presuppose that the goal is to become a citizen when it has been proven over and over again that isn’t the case. the actual definition of what illegals are doing is squatting…AND THAT IS BY DESIGN.

      • FutureOnePercent

        Laurel A stage9 And why wouldn’t they. We give them all sorts of freebies as long as they don’t become legit.
        Hell they can even vote too.

        • Laurel A

          FutureOnePercent Laurel A stage9 True.

      • 57thunderbird

        Laurel A stage9 I see it as a foreign invasion!

        • Laurel A

          57thunderbird Laurel A stage9 It is of a sort. They are squatting and we all know how that works out. The plan is to gain ground by attrition throuhg overwhelming numbers.

        • cabensg

          Laurel A 57thunderbird stage9 Agreed and if we want a flavor of what’s to come all we have to do is look at California where the invasion has the highest numbers. I’ll tell you who I don’t blame and that’s the illegals. Liberal Democrats are the ones who gave us this problem just like all the other problems we now face concerning our government and other institutions.

  • westskier11

    Rand’s plan is about the most sensible plan there is right now. It gives congress the authority to decide when the borders are “secured”. Stop the tidal wave, enforce quotas, then we’ll talk about those currently here.

    • stage9

      westskier11 implicit in the word “sensible” is the word “sense”. And it simply does not.

      • westskier11

        stage9 westskier11 Rand is leagues ahead of the rest of the FOX-pushed candidates. This is no reason to give up the guy that actually gives a damn about our rights and the constitution.

        • stage9

          westskier11 stage9 I wouldn’t know what Fox pushes. I don’t watch it. Stopped watching it when they got behind Obamney.
          And we don;t have to “look for anything” to dismiss Rand, he and his father do a fine job of dismissing themselves without our help.

        • westskier11

          stage9 westskier11 Yep, just as I thought, a low information “conservative”. I bet you support the gun-banning Ben Carson over Rand Paul. You need some talking head to tell you how to think.

        • stage9

          westskier11 stage9 So, you’re saying that what they say on video isn’t what they believe in fact? Are they schizophrenic?
          When Ron Paul told the entire world during the primaries that Iran had the right to obtain a nuclear weapon and it was none of our business (despite the fact that they threatened us); he didn’t really mean that? I’m just misinformed?
          Maybe I’m just wrong on my definition of “low information”, because apparently it doesn’t align with yours.

        • K-Bob

          Confine your remarks to the topic or ideas brought up.  If you want to bash Conservatives or make personal attacks, go to some other site.

        • PeterLeaman1

          K-Bob He wasn’t bashing conservatives. He was bashing people who say they are conservatives and believe in the limitation of the constitution, but then speak otherwise.

        • K-Bob

          PeterLeaman1 K-Bob He just declared a longtime commenter on this site to be a low information conservative, in scare quotes, no less.  Prior to that he claimed conservatives who do not want Rand’s plan to be hypocrites.  Ergo the warning. You guys need to take a look at the http://www.therightscoop.com/the-right-scoop-commenting-rules/.

        • westskier11

          K-Bob PeterLeaman1 What a broad statement, coming from the site that is essentially libeling people such as Paul. Essentially anyone who “veers” from the talking point mantra of the day is deemed “abusive”. I wasnt even a diehard RP supporter a year ago and yet I remember the banning of anyone who challenged the Santorum slobbering.

        • westskier11

          stage9 westskier11 I find it amusing that you decry Rand for “isolationalism” (assuming you know what the literal definition is) while saying stuff like this : “[Libertarians]The best advice is to just stay clear of them entirely.”

          I’d say youre the isolationist. Us constitutionalists want to limit the federal government. You just want one of your guys in power.

        • 12grace

          westskier11 stage9  
          Amnesty can be stopped by a government that has the will to stop it. I like Rand in so many ways but I adamantly disagree with him on this issue.

        • westskier11

          12grace  I agree. I am not too fond that Rand decided to jump onto the immigration bandwagon. Ill Im saying is that his plan is the best one out there, and much much better than the GOPs and Rubio’s.

        • K-Bob

          westskier11 K-Bob PeterLeaman1 We’ve all heard that song before. The old, “rules for rational debate = bias” mantra.  Total yawner. This is a moderated site. If you don’t like the rules, find a site you like and hang out there.

        • K-Bob 
          I commend you brother… I’d be a lot less tolerant and have burned those posts already… I guess that’s why you’re a moderator and I’m not! 🙂

        • K-Bob

          WolfieUSA K-Bob Heh.  Let’s say I’ve been tempered. I welcome their input, if it’s rational, non-antagonistic debate.  But so many of them just come in here firing the usual spitballs.

    • cabensg

      westskier11 Congress the authority to decide ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

      • K-Bob

        cabensg westskier11 Yeah, I feel the same way.  I remember “Deem and pass” all too well.

    • 12grace

      westskier11  
      Why should we reward people that are in our country, illegally? If they get to stay here, they will if they haven’t already, bring their families, so they pay few taxes while their entire families collect welfare and social services.
      Besides that they are taking jobs away from “legal citizens”.
      This is blatantly unfair.

    • FutureOnePercent

      westskier11 Enforce quotas? Since when is that ever a good idea?

    • FutureOnePercent

      westskier11 Enforce quotas? Since when is that ever a good idea?

  • cabensg

    There’s a website you will all enjoy. It’s called Numbers USA. You can see what any bill in question says. Who wrote it. A Grade point for your Congressman and Senators. After joining your Congressman and Senators will be listed for you to use each time you want to send them a fax. You can use the fax they’ve prepared and add to it or write your own. When you access the home page they have displayed all the action items to choose from. A really big plus is the ease of use and viewing this site has employed. Hope you check it out.

    https://www.numbersusa.com/content/my/action/board
    The Amnesty fax is ready to send so you can ask your Congressman and Senators to not support it.

    • 12grace

      cabensg 
      Yes, this is a great website.

  • rocco11

    Who is this K-bob asshole and where the fuck did he come from, North Korea?  Fuck you, prick.  Take your site and shove it up your fucking ass.

    • K-Bob

      rocco11 So long, and be sure to take your Klansman outfit with you, lefty.

    • joyfulgiver

      rocco11 your language is VERY offensive, and not acceptable in this domain.

      • joyfulgiver rocco11 
        Too right it’s not, I flagged him immediately upon reading it.

        • MeanGreenBeret WolfieUSA joyfulgiver rocco11  
          If I could… I would.  I’m disappointed  his post is still visible at least an hour after it appeared.  I suppose it’s this new system, but comments like that have to go, or all the family friendly people will go instead.  We can be abused like that anywhere.

    • rocco11 @moderator There’s a few more posts in this thread that you should take a serious look at.  🙁

  • Conservator1

    I can’t disagree more with the many comments posted by westskier11. When Wolf Blitzer directly asked if his plan would eventually lead these 11 to 12 million illegal immigrants, if they do all the right things (starts about 1 minute in video), to become citizens Paul’s answer was “interestingly yes.” He also stated he’s was willing to speeding up the illegal immigration line.
    Here is a http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/03/19/text-of-rand-pauls-immigration-speech/. It was released by the Kentucky Republican’s Senate office.
    It’s just my opinion, but I think Paul knowing the gang of eight would release their plan in early April combined with what every member in Republican in Congress must have known regarding the RNC’s focus groups and survey’s, was eager to support an immigration plan of his own. Potential contender’s for the GOP’s presidential nomination in 2016 such as Marco Rubio and Jeb Bush have already stated their support for immigration reform.
    Thus, this has become a political battle for Republicans and I’m very disappointed that there doesn’t appear to be one Republican that’s willing to stand up and say NO. If the GOP believes that this will help them garner greater support among the Hispanic community, I believe they’re sadly mistaken. This has always been a Democratic issue and emulating liberals and progressives is not a winning strategy.

    • 12grace

      Conservator1  
      I don’t trust Rand Paul, at all. 
      He seems to be for us until he is against us.

      • 12grace Conservator1  
        Well said.  I’m disappointed in him… Then all the Paulbots turn up and reinforce why I was an idiot to put any faith in him in the first place!    Do you notice every time they show up, arguments and insults start flying (99% from them) and provoking us. 
        Have they no website of their own where they can discuss things without bothering us?  It might be just me… or is it?

        • Conservator1

          WolfieUSA 12grace Conservator1 I forgot post this yesterday, but with friends like this, we all shouldn’t trust the Senator. Here’s one new supporter of Rand Paul; progressive opinion writer at the Washington Post, Dana Milbank.

          “…For the moment, I am Standing with Rand on one leg only; his isolationist foreign policy and his calamitous plan to eliminate federal deficits in five years make it imprudent to jump in with both feet. But consider:
          On Tuesday, Paul endorsed a version of immigration reform that would allow the 11 million or so undocumented immigrants in this country to become legal.
          Last week, he outlined an idea that would end government discrimination against gay marriage…”
          Is this what conservatives have too look forward to?

        • Conservator1 WolfieUSA 12grace  
          Thanks very much for that follow up!  Very interesting reading!

    • Laurel A

      Conservator1 From where I am sitting it looks to me that Rand is using the strategy of the Obama team to an extent but he is also unwittingly playing into Obama’s and Democrat hands. They are more than happy when they set Republicans to one upping each other and with each one up they move further to the left. In their eyes it’s a win-win.

    • Laurel A

      Conservator1 From where I am sitting it looks to me that Rand is using the strategy of the Obama team to an extent but he is also unwittingly playing into Obama’s and Democrat hands. They are more than happy when they set Republicans to one upping each other and with each one up they move further to the left. In their eyes it’s a win-win.

      • KenDeBreeze

        Laurel A Conservator1 Actually what Rand is doing is hedging against the democratic playbook with this plan. Union labor doesn’t want an extended guest worker program. We do need to streamline our immigration so it doesn’t take upwards of 10 years for those looking for freedom or opportunities to find a home. Those that are illegal aren’t put in front of those that are seeking immigration status legally and all of this is contingent on Congress approving that the border becomes closed and then there’s a window of opportunity for those illegals that want to eventually become citizens to declare and then get to the back of the line. Those that don’t will still be deported and the border patrol and customs will continue to do their job. In order to get info on these illegals is to grant work visas to them and then we’ll know more about them and they will be paying taxes and social security instead of not. All the while we’ve been dragging our heels on immigration, it went from a few million to well over 12 million. Rand’s plan is the best that doesn’t grant amnesty. Keep in mind that there are many insiders that fear Rand because he’s so conservative and can’t be bought off and they’ll muddy the waters and misdirect people away from him by distorting his positions so here’s the real nuts and bolts of his proposal as analyzed by Hot Air:  http://hotair.com/archives/2013/03/19/rand-pauls-immigration-plan-border-security-before-probationary-legal-status/

        • Laurel A

          KenDeBreeze Laurel A Conservator1 Most of what you have written is speculation and opinion. The sheer fact that they remain on US soil is amnesty…pure and simple. They kicked in the back door and crashed on through and we are rewarding them for it. You don’t think those waiting in line in their home countries wouldn’t like to be on US soil? Really???!!!
           The tax pledge part of your little scenario is a myth. Illegal immigrants not only don’t pay taxes but they take out an additional $19,000 per immigrant per year. If they are skilled enough to have to actually pay taxes then that pops that balloon about how we need low skilled workers to ‘do the j0ob Americans won’t do’. There income levels, if they indeed are what they proclaim won’t require taxes paid into the system. Where and what happened to the ‘poor immigrant just wanting a better life’ storyline? the poor don’t pay taxes in this country, plus they actually get what is known as the Earned Income Tax Credit.

          As the Aunt of someone who immigrated legally and is still waiting to be allowed to work for four almost five years, after paying over $25,000, why isn’t he legalized now? why isn’t that being handled efficiently? Why under those circumstances could we ever expect the government to handle anything in regards to immigration efficiently?
          I have read the Hot Air column and it is hot air. Try reading the studies from the Center for Immigration Studies or go to Numbers USA, they have some as well. Rand’s plan is smoke and mirrors and the bottom line is as long as illegals stay on US soil it’s amnesty and it’s rewarding bad behavior while undermining the rule of law. And I gotta ask why in the hell would we want to give Congress control of the border and yet another political football to pander with?
          Rand’s plan is nonsense and pandering., nothing more. What Rand says and what the applications and implications of his plan are two very different things. Rand can explain to me why my nephew coughed up $25,000 and counting but illegals broke the law and are being rewarded. I wonder if he would mind if I came in the back door of his home and helped myself.

  • HOUSTONPETITION

    Can somebody please explain to me WHY THE H*LL AMERICANS NEED TO GIVE AWAY THEIR COUNTRY IN THE FIRST PLACE?

  • After reading this thread.  I see some of the Paulbots arrived and try to convince me that I am wrong to not support him.  After seeing the way they debate and the sarcastic and sneering and condescending tone they take to anyone that questions their Dear Leader… I can only say… They had the opposite effect they desired and drove me much further away from Rand then I might have moved.    If this is the level of support and the kind of support he musters…  I want no part of it.     He is NO Conservative… He needs to stop pretending to be one!!

    • KenDeBreeze

      WolfieUSA I can appreciate your concerns and there are certain Paul supporters that end up being sarcastic and divisive and I wish they would stop and grow up, because their behavior does drive people away and I doubt that either Paul would respect that. That said, if you’ve witnessed the way the media and other conservatives have treated their guy over the years, it’s not hard to see why some of them react that way. You can say what you want about whatever disagreements you have with Sr. Paul but the guy has delivered over 4000 babies and any person that values human life should at least respect that. Not all Ron supporters like Rand because he doesn’t come off as bold of a libertarian as the old man does which is why he has such great appeal to the conservative grassroots as well as media personalities like Cavuto, Rush, Hannity, Ingraham, Levin and Miller to name a few. Also, that’s why the likes of McCain, Graham and Rove don’t look highly upon him. From the people that are visible and becoming new leaders in the GOP, Rand is easily rising to the top despite certain comments on a blog site. I probably liked half of what I heard from Romney and zero from Obama but I like upwards of 90% of what Rand says. You’ll never get a politician that you’ll 100% agree with so don’t bother. 
      Rand is calling for the budget to be balanced in 5 years, he’s called for all foreign aid to be stopped especially starting with countries that talk smack about us, he’s pushing for a full Federal Reserve audit to see where the banksters are ripping off the middle class and printing money to cover their debt on our backs, his office returned $1.1 million to the treasury in savings that they didn’t waste of the taxpayer’s money, he spent 13 hours filibustering executive power to protect all of our due process rights, he lambasted Sec Clinton for her lack of leadership in the Benghazi scandal, he’s also been trying to get the abusive TSA off our backs among many other issues he’s fighting for. I’m sorry that’s not conservative enough for you.

      • KenDeBreeze WolfieUSA  
        See now Ken, that was a well reasoned argument that I can and did read and respect.  Now if more Paul supporters were as willing to engage like you have, we’d have far less arguments and perhaps begin to understand each other’s positions on some issues better.   Rand is conservative on many issues, but then on drugs and borders and national defense.  We part ways.    I would take a Rand Paul over an NObama any day of the week and I ran as an ABO voter (Anyone But OBama) in the election.  Paul supporters stayed away in droves and helped contribute to NObama winning a second term.  They put petty politics ahead of the good of the nation and that’s another issue I have with them.

      • in_high_cotton

        KenDeBreeze WolfieUSA I was an independent looking at Paul Rand.  Amnesty quells my vote for Rand Paul, and before the finger pointing and name calling begins I’ll say it is because it simply tips MY scale back in favor of others.

  • HOUSTONPETITION

    Oh boy it gets worse…
    http://www.vdare.com/posts/rand-paul-has-reneged-on-birthright-citizenship-too
    If our politicians do not think that Americans deserve the following: culture,language or borders then what precisely is the point? We are witnessing a cultural Aushwitz perpetuated against the Americans….remember those people?

  • DanaZZGarcia

    Let’s be clear: only the Democrat party cares about a “path to citizenship” and eventual D-voters. 
    But to the aliens themselves, voting in America in a decade matters ZERO. The big magnet for them is the work permit NOW which is what all amnesty plans promise. “Legalization” is another term for the same instant amnesty that illegal aliens crave.
    http://www.limitstogrowth.org/articles/2013/03/12/amnesty-plans-keep-magnet-in-place/

  • BearNJ

    I have a question. Why do our representatives hate the citizens who vote for them so much. This will cost 2.6 trillion according to some estimates and end the GOP. They’re cutting their own throats.

  • MrLTavern

    Double talking fraud. I read his speech and I know what he said. This man is just like his father throwing shite up against the wall, whatever sticks sticks and whoever listens listens. He’s trying to be everything to everyone and so when you do that you’re not principled. Don’t care how many Paul supporters claim that he is– he’s not.  His grandparents spoke 2 languages.  who cares?  My grandparents were from Italy and my grandfather prohibited my mother from speaking Italian in the home. Why? He wanted her to fully assimilate to the culture of America and speak English.  He can go to hell with his multi lingual nonsense.  English should be the primary language of this society and I’m afraid he believes that an eventual Tower of Babel is okay to have in America.  I’m sorry no go.  “I’ve never met a new immigrant looking for a free lunch.”  Oh yeah?  Go visit an emergency room soon and see if you still think that.  Also, it’s been noted that many Hispanics are pro Occupy Wall Street.  What about all of the Latino radical groups like LaRaza and Mecha?  Yeah, what he and the other idiots are proposing is not amnesty, yeah, okay….and Romney didn’t pass the prototype for Obama care in Massachusetts….it’s really not the same thing….yeah…mmmkay.  OF COURSE it’s amnesty since Obama has downgraded immigration violations to a secondary offense the equivalent to  not buckling your seat belt when you’re driving and that means only those who violate a “real” law face possible deportation.   He hasn’t learned anything from his father.  He should shut his mouth, he doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

  • DanielQuinn

    What is really amazing is how for more than 10 years these people in the media keep saying 11-12 million illegals (PC undocumented immigrants) aliens the number never changes. There are probably more than 40~50 millions illegals now, yet they, the media, don’t want to say it.  
    I live and work in Japan (on a visa)  but I don’t want to become a Japanese citizen so why does Congress always offer citizenship to illegals in the US when talking about immigration?