By The Right Scoop


Rush played the audio clips of Herman Cain yesterday with the Journal Sentinel, pointing out that Herman Cain did get the Libya answer right when he finally got to his answer. And when it comes to federal employees not being able to collectively bargain, Rush said the Sentinel is wrong, that some federal employees can bargain for their wages and benefits.

Rush also noted that many conservative websites, like the media, are sending these videos out saying:

“ok that’s it, we’ve had it, Cain’s finished, it’s over with – this has nothing to do with sexual harassment, let’s just finally admit it, he doesn’t have the slightest clue what he’s saying or what he’s doing when it comes to foreign policy, can we please move on?!”

Here’s the full video:

Just to be clear, I don’t think Cain is necessarily finished but I do believe this will definitely hurt him. While the MSM may be in fact using this to say he’s stupid, I don’t think he’s stupid at all. I think he’s being overly cautious in dealing with the media and it leads him to terrible gaffes like yesterday.

On the topic of federal employees and collective bargaining, if Cain had at least challenged them when they said that federal employees cannot collectively bargain for wages and benefits, it would have sounded like he knew what he was talking about. In reality, I don’t believe he knew in fact that most federal employees can’t collectively bargain (just as I didn’t know some can) and thus he sounded like his depth on policy is weak.

And the same is true when it comes to public employees being able to collectively bargain for wages and benefits. I could possibly accept his answer about being for it unless it creates an undue burden to the state, but he’d need to admit that this nuanced position is basically a “collectively bargaining utopia” that doesn’t exist. Collectively bargaining for wages and benefits in it’s current form is always destructive to the state because the unions just elect politicians that give them what they want at the bargaining table. But he didn’t really go there so again it looks like his policy depth is weak.

The bottom line is that I just feel like he hasn’t done enough hard work when it comes to expanding his breadth of knowledge on the issues. I’ve never expected him to get into the “policy weeds” – in fact I believe most good leaders are the ‘big picture’ types – but some of this is pretty basic. And when you tack on his botching of his position on abortion and his other statements that he’s had to clarify along with the Libya answer yesterday, it’s just become difficult to stand behind him.

At the end of the day he’s got the right principles and I would still have no problem voting for him if he is the nominee. But for now I want to further evaluate other candidates before I pull the wallet out again.

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  • Anonymous

    I am not so sure he has the “right principles”. I keep looking for him to stand for conservatism, but he has waffled on everything. I used to take for granted that he was the conservative in the race, but without anything to go on other than everyone else assumes he is.

    • Anonymous

      Maybe he just doesn’t want that huge inflatable Rat to show up at every campaign event chaperoned by thug bugs. Plus, we already have collective bargaining. Remember his caveat there is just as much part of his answer as the first part? The caveat was something like, as long as they were not overly burdening. Well, they are overburdening.

      • Anonymous

        if you allow collective bargaining, the unions will use it to their advantage. it would be naive to think that they would think of the taxpayer first, instead of their own best interests.

        • Anonymous

          If you allow collective bargaining? We already have it. I said this above. Cain thought we already had collective bargaining in the Federal employees and as Rush pointed out today, in some areas, we do. So Cain was agreeing with the current rules, laws and contracts. I also said, he has a caveat along with the answer. How can you focus on only half the answer, and then state the blatantly obvious?

          For example, I am quite taken aback that you say, unions would use “collective bargaining to their advantage”. Rrrrrreally? I’m trying to understand why you typed this. Your grocery list would’ve been as pertinent. Let me see what that looks like, I may have further comment :-I

  • http://no-apologies-round2.blogspot.com/ AmericanborninCanada

    Thank you el Rushbo. And thanks Scoop for explaining your take, even though you really don’t have to explain yourself to us. :-)

  • Anonymous

    Sorry I digress TRS, congratulations on a new high on the awesome meter. Soon you will be force to reckon with if rou arent already

  • Anonymous

    rush is wrong in this case…the pause is not the issue, the reason for the pause is…he looked like he did not know what obama had done…even i know how the ego dithered…i wonder if he knows the phrase ‘leading from behind’…the list is long there is so much stuff he could have said…none of the other candidates would have looked so clueless even perry…people say cain has the right principles…but what is the point of having right principles and not winning..you have to first beat obama befor you get to your principles…what has cain been doing all this time…all he says is 999…there is no excuse for this incompetence.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1222295978 William S Burdick

      Are you stupid or what odin47? Herman Cain was a man who had only 4 hours of sleep and just got off a plane. Anybody with any sense (which you clearly had none); could see that. As a man who was tired; he was just trying to get his thoughts together (as you would, you hypocrite, if you were in a similar situation). Rush was right “the pause is the reason! Herman Cain or Rush was not clueless! The only one clueless here is an idiot like you!

      • Anonymous

        may be he should have done the interview if he was so tired….dummy

      • http://twitter.com/carlstone carlstone

        Maybe if he has this much trouble after only 4 hours sleep he shouldn’t be the one fielding those 3AM phone calls.

        • Anonymous

          Nice talking point….sheesh

  • Anonymous

    I didn’t notice that Rush mentioned anything about Herman being on the wrong side of the collective bargaining issue. He just kept making it sound like a media hit job, which I don’t think it was at all. (Compare to SP being questioned by Gibson looking down his nose at her while refusing to clarify his question. He was trying to embarrass her.)

    • http://twitter.com/AmericanSpringg American Spring

      Herman Cain was in Wisconsin supporting Gov. Walker before it was cool.

      Cain has been in front of this issue for the past year. See these videos for proof. It is clear that HC understands the problem – Say no to collective hijacking..

      The Anti-Cain foke act like Cain was just hatched out of an egg a week ago.

      • Anonymous

        then he has been on both sides of the issue, or like with the abortion issue, he cannot articulate his position. i got whiplash from that back and forth.

        the great thing about Reagan was that he could explain conservatism and bring people around (the Reagan Democrats).

        • Anonymous

          On the abortion issue, Mr. Cain demonstrated that he can hold two thoughts in his mind at the same time, which many people cannot do and usually when one is not capable of something they do not believe others can do it either.

          His position (single position) on abortion is perfectly clear to me and has been ever since TSCOTUS decided Roe v Wade.

          GB

          • Anonymous

            I am sorry. He was confusing and unwilling to be unequivocal on the matter. I watched every video clip and read every statement from his campaign on the abortion issue because I wanted to understand where he stood. He was uncomfortable with the subject matter. And if you are president of the U.S., you don’t take the position that it is a family matter and the government should stay out of it when it comes to breaking the law.

            • Anonymous

              “…and usually when one is not capable of something they do not believe others can do it either.”

              Amen.

              You have proven my point for me. Thank you.

              GB

              • Anonymous

                what is your understanding of his position on abortion in cases of rape or incest? his campaign reported to cnn that he makes exceptions for those instances.

                • Anonymous

                  Herman Cain and I have the same position on abortion. We are Pro-life BUT a mother still has the right to choose. Legal or not, abortions will be performed. Do we want back alley coat hanger abortions again? I don’t think so. I believe the mother should have to make the decision in her first trimester, after that she should follow through with the pregnancy and give the baby up for adoption if she chooses to. In a perfect world I would rather have all children be born but I cannot impose my beliefs upon anyone, it isn’t my choice, it’s theirs. Making it legal or illegal will NOT stop abortions. All we can do is educate our youth to the horrors of real abortions. Once a prospective mother watches an actual abortion being performed I would bet (9 out of 10 times) she would not go through with it. All that being said, it is still the mother that chooses, nobody else.

                • Anonymous

                  so what you are saying is that you and Herman Cain think abortion should be legal. That is a pro-choice position. Emphasis on the choice.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1222295978 William S Burdick

          As I posted above to you teri_b; your problem is that you have “selected memory.” Herman Cain HAS been very articulate on every issue he has addressed! Now run-off to Ron Paul!

          • Anonymous

            If Herman Cain has been very articulate as you say, we wouldn’t be having these posts for two days.

            What do you hope to accomplish by instructing me to “run-off to Ron Paul”?
            I have not said one word about Congressman Paul.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_IZ3RPI5YN63HVMQGLQALFNGZ5Q Mark C

            Herman Cain is either a dumb ass or a huckster. Either way, he is finished.

            It was a tribute to the stupidity of GOP lunatic voters, and Rush Limbaugh, that Herman got any votes at all. http://fairtaxgoofy.blogspot.com/

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1222295978 William S Burdick

      Perhaps you only heard the parts you wanted to hear teri_b; but yes Rush did address that issue AND agreed with what Herman Cain said on them (unlike a lot of folks who only heard the word; “collective bargaining,” then turned OFF their brain to the rest of what Herman Cain had said). In fact; Rush said something I DID NOT KNOW; there ARE Government (as in Federal) workers that DO have bargaining rights!!! Please try to get ahold of the ENTIRE recording of Rush’s comments and see for yourself (don’t just take mine or anyone else’s word).

      • Anonymous

        You are right. I didn’t hear the whole thing. My electricity went out for several hours this afternoon. What did Rush say about Cain supporting collective bargaining?

  • Anonymous

    Dear Rush, it doesn’t matter if some feds get collective bargaining or not. What matters is Cain failed to stand against the idea. Cain is now standing to the left of FDR on this issue.

  • http://www.noneedforastinkingwebsite.com dow daytrader

    Cain was right…and conservatives continue to eat their own…

  • http://twitter.com/AmericanSpringg American Spring

    I like ya all but you have forced me to do this……IT IS THE ECONOMY, STUPID!!!!

    http://999calculator.net/

    • Anonymous

      That calculator is BS. It is a calculator programmed with a multiplier of .22. Prove the embedded taxes will be 22%. Also prove the savings will be passed on to the consumer. It’s nothing more than an assumption and your leader already said you can’t predict behavior. I’m sorry I burst your bubble.

      Show me where the 22% comes from and where it’s been scored by CBO.

      Sorry I was forced to challenge you on this. Thanks in advance for providing the info I requested.

      • http://twitter.com/torquepilot JCLISE

        Read the subscript noted by the asterisk!*

        • Anonymous

          I’m asking for proof that on average 22% of the price of most consumer products is incorporated into the price to to cover average corporate tax rate of 35%. Where’s the study and show me where it’s been scored by CBO.

          I already proved Cain is trying to fool people at the poverty level into thinking he is doing them a favor when actually he is taking thousands away from them.

          I[ve posted figures that shows a family of 4 at the poverty level of 22,350 will lose over 3200.00 dollars because they will no longer receive the EITC check of 4984.00.The reason it”s 3275.00 they will lose is because you have to subtract the 1709.75 FICA when comparing the 2 plans. They not only will lose the 3275.00, but will have to pay the 9% consumption tax.

      • Anonymous

        Business will pass on the savings in their expenses because competition will force them; and more importantly every business wants to lower its prices so that more people can afford to buy from them. It’s the Wal-Mart model that business people follow.

        The 9% sales tax in isolation is not the way to look at the 9-9-9 plan. You have to see how this will lower every businesses expenses and reverse the cycle we are now in. Look at this 9-9-9 review site to see how all of the components fit together and why the Plan is brilliant. http://review999.com or ww.review999.com

        • Anonymous

          I explained how 999 will cost me close to 150.00 dollars of my monthly SS check, so won’t go there again.

          The way Cain’s plan works will be to take from the low and middle income and give to people like his brothers from another mother, the Koch Brothers.

          Cain’s plan is nothing more than redistribution of wealth from the poor to his brothers.

          Do you think the 47% of people paying no taxes will vote for Cain?

          This is the last time I will comment on 999 on here. Do your own math and vote for your choice. I won’t vote for Cain under any condition.

          • http://twitter.com/torquepilot JCLISE

            If I am correct, Cain said SS will not be taxed!

            • Anonymous

              The 9 % consumption tax will make life impossible for millions of people on SS that has to choose between food and medicine. I know the plan is good for the middle income and these people don’t care what it does it does to the people that paid into the system for half a century and suddenly lose 9% of their income.

              • http://twitter.com/torquepilot JCLISE

                Again, I believe Mr. Cain stated that SS (Social Security), is exempt from any taxation!

                • Anonymous

                  Sorry,just the income tax,and since I receive less than 25,000 per year, I am exempt from paying income tax.

                  I know 999 is only phase 1 of the fair tax plan which will be @ 23% with a prebate, but Cain flip flopped on the prebate last month.

                  During May Cain Said.

                  at 1:17 ” Every family deserves to get a prebate”

                  Oct 16,2011 article written by Cain at North Star Writers Group

                  9 responses to 9 false attacks on the 9-9-9 plan

                  http://www.northstarwriters.com/2011/10/16/9-responses-to-9-false-attacks-on-the-9-9-9-plan/

                  Claim 4: The plan should have included a pre-bate to offset the sales tax. Response: The last thing we need is to establish another federal entitlement, which the proposed pre-bate would quickly become.

            • http://twitter.com/BorisBad Boris Badenough

              Not only are you correct JCLISE, but many miss the point on the sales tax. It isn’t placed on top of today’s structure. It replaces it. Right now, today, this very minute, when you buy a loaf of bread at the grocery store anywhere from 30 to 40% of the price represents the hidden taxes of today’s tax structure built into that price.

              Think about it. Today we have a 35% corporate income tax plus corporations pay an addition 7.65% in payroll taxes for a total tax burden of 42.65%. So, when considering the loaf of bread, the farmer builds the cost of his tax burden into his price and sells his raw product to the miller, who builds the cost of his taxes into his price and sells it to the baker, who builds in his taxes into the price as does the transportation company the takes the bread to the store and as does the retailer before he sells that bread to you at the cash register.

              So, for a true apples to apples comparison, let’s assume you are going to buy a product in today’s market with a retail price of $1.00. Now lets assume that 30% (the low end of the range) of that price represents the built in, hidden taxes in today’s price structure.

              Take 30% off of $1.00 and your price is 70 cents with all hidden taxes stripped out.

              Now lets assume corporations will pass 100% of the new 9% corporate income tax onto consumers in the price (remember, the payroll tax has been eliminated by 9-9-9). Add 9% of 70 cents onto the price and your are back up to 76.3 cents.

              Now add on the new 9% national sales tax onto 76.3 cents and you have a new retail price of 83.17 cents versus the original $1.00.

              It is at this point you would add any state or local sales tax, if any.

              I live in Arizona. We have a 9% sales tax here. Today, I calculate my sales tax based on the $1.00 price for a total, walk out the door price of $1.09.

              Under 9-9-9 my total, walk out the door price would be 90.6 cents.

              In other words, no matter where you live or what your local sales tax is, even for those who live in New Hampshire and have no state sales tax at all, EVERYBODY is better off!

          • http://twitter.com/ozziecastillo Ozzie

            I won’t vote for Cain under any condition.

            At the risk of an Obama second term? It’s just as bad as the Paul supporters that would vote for only Paul or Obama, or the anarchists that want to bring on the failure of America at the expense of everyone else so that they can have a go at their way of government. Funny how it always works out that way. Someone threatens to take away your piece of the government cheese and people want to raise hell. Can’t be conservative only when it doesn’t affect you. I know it sounds condescending, and I don’t intend it to be that way….I’m trying to make a point.

            I heard it before (in a heated argument with a close friend) …yea, you paid into it, and yea you’re getting [you’ve been] ripped off by your government (assuming that all of your calculations are right), but so are all of us, and it has to change. The bottom line is that if you planned on retiring with SS, you failed.

            • http://www.facebook.com/rightstuffnovelties Right Stuff

              Cain gives us the best chance to win because he has the greatest appeal across party lines. Newt has little appeal outside our base. He lacks charisma/energy and appeal trumps substance 90% of the time. Obama is case and point; radical as hell, zero experience, but connected with the voters. It will be a redo of 2008 with Newt playing the old, boring Republican that nobody gets excited about. People want to be inspired, not talked down to. I have concerns about Cain too, but in the scope of everything, he is our best bet to win. I’ll take Cain over another 4 years of Obama any day!

            • Anonymous

              I repeat. I will not vote for anyone that would take 9% of my income and I am doing fine on SS right now. I worked 3 extra years , until I was 68 1/2 , so I would have enough to live on. Something you may not know is that in the real world, not fairytale world, not every job had a retirement plan, and millions of us earned enough to survive, but not enough to put away any money for retirement. Leave my SS alone and I’ll be fine. What you obviously can’t understand is Cain will not get the votes from the 47% not paying taxes and the diehard Obama supporters.

              I will vote for anyone but Obama or Cain.

              • Anonymous

                I agree with william that he won’t get this passed. I will go further and say not just the 47% and the Obama supporters, but many conservatives don’t like Mr. Cain’s plan.

                In fact, all the other candidates have ripped it, so we shouldn’t assume that a republican congress would pass it.

                personally, I like it, but I am trying to be realistic.

              • http://twitter.com/ozziecastillo Ozzie

                What you obviously can’t understand is Cain will not get the votes from the 47%

                That is pure speculation, my assertion about how government works [Congress specifically] is not.

                As far as whether or not people earned enough to survive vs retire, and who had retirement plans from their workplace-

                I don’t know your personal situation so I will keep my comment brief. It can be done, without an employer provided retirement plan.

      • Anonymous

        The farmer that grows the wheat pays both payroll taxes and income taxes.

        The grain trucking company pays both payroll and income taxes.

        The bread company pays both payroll and income taxes.

        The supermarket pays both payroll taxes and income taxes.

        All of them include those taxes in the price that they charge the next person in the production process. All of those taxes are “baked” into the cost of the bread. Is it exactly 22%? Who the hell knows, but it is significant and it will largely offset the sales tax that is levied on the product.

        The main point is that right now, all those taxes are absolutely invisible to the consumer. If you asked people if there are federal taxes on consumer goods, I bet 98%+ would say no. Wrong! The FairTax would simply replace those taxes with an absolutely visible and transparent sales tax.

        Would companies pass the savings on? They couldn’t be competitive if they didn’t. Who would buy wheat from a farmer that charged more for it? Who would hire a trucking company that charged more to ship it? Who would buy bread that is the same as the rest but cost 20% more?

        By the way, the 72,000 pages of tax code and the hundreds of billions that Americans spend every year to comply with it would totally go away.

        • http://profiles.google.com/ajtelles Art Telles

          Tax info…

          Good points bobnus.

          But your points are lost on our forum friend and sparing partner williamm who constantly uses words such as “Cain flip-flopped” and the 9% will “make life impossible for millions of people on SS” and etc.

          Those kinds of comments are everywhere on his posts in defense of the status quo, it seems to me.

          Since he is not for the FAIR Tax, he is either for the FLAT Tax of Perry / Forbes or the FLAT Tax of Gingrich or the “progressive” and “graduated” tax of the status quo.

          – – – – – – – –

          Today I favor Cain and his
          9-9-9 Phase 1 Flat Tax with transition to Phase 2 Fair Tax

          Phase 2 Cain Fair Tax –
          -Ultimately replaces individual and corporate income taxes
          -Ends the IRS as we know it and repeals the 16th Amendment
          >> http://www.hermancain.com/999plan

          More on the Fair Tax – 50 questions answered –
          >> Video – >> http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer

          More on the Flat Tax –
          >> FreedomWorks – >> http://www.freedomworks.org/issues/flat-tax
          >> Alvin Rabushka – >> http://flattaxes.blogspot.com/
          >> Alvin Rabushka – click book content links – >> http://www.hooverpress.org/productdetails.cfm?PC=1274
          >> Gingrich v Perry – >> http://www.newt.org/news/lets-bump-plans-comparison-gingrich-and-perrys-flat-tax-plans

          Art

          • Anonymous

            Art, I totally understand what bobnus said and disagree with it as I disagree with you.

            I know people like you are so selfish that you don’t care if it takes food out of the mouths of the elderly as long as it lines your pockets with more money.

            If the prices would decrease enough to compensate us for the losses, people like you would benefit from the lower income tax plus you would benefit from the lower prices. You people want to have your cake and eat it too while leaving nothing but crumbs for the people that paid into it for close to half a century.

            You have every right to your opinion as I do.

            I know you have a problem with the truth regarding Cain, but get used to it.

            Please disprove my math on 999 plan or prove I’m wrong on Cain and the prebate. I gave the links to prove my claim.

            Be an adult and deal with the facts instead of your childish attacks on people that disagree with you.

            Have a nice day, Art

            • http://profiles.google.com/ajtelles Art Telles

              Hyperbole…

              Who is “you people” williamm?

              The use of “you people” reminds me of the antagonistic callers to Levin and Hannity and Limbaugh who are nailed by Levin and Hannity and Limbaugh as either seminar callers or wolves in sheep clothing masquerading as conservatives or independents or libertarians or whatever.

              williamm, words such as

              -“people like you”
              -“so selfish”
              -“don’t care”
              -“lines your pockets”
              -“you people”
              -“leaving nothing”
              -“you have a problem with the truth”
              -“be an adult”
              -“your childish attacks”

              are not conducive of civil discourse because they represent innuendo without substance to support the innuendo.

              Your request to “disprove my math on 999″ and your request to “prove” you are wrong on Cain and the prebate is a red herring.

              The issue is not me or you or Cain, the experienced business man and respected family man, husband and father.

              Your target is really with the FAIR Tax itself, which has been around for decades now… see the FairTax.org website for more info.

              Watch the 50 responses and expose the falsity of the Fair Tax concept itself, and your comments will be more persuasive if and when you correct “their” analysis of what is “fair” to the SS recipients whom you defend with vituperative words against those who want to scrap the “progressive” and “graduated” tax scheme of the 16th amendment, and ultimately the IRS.

              As it stands now, your comments against Cain and his 9-9-9 plan are not persuasive because they are not convincing… they are more innuendo without substance than they are informative.

              The issue is Cain and his
              9-9-9 Phase 1 Flat Tax with “transition” to Phase 2 Fair Tax

              Phase 2 Cain Fair Tax –
              -Ultimately replaces individual and corporate income taxes
              -Ends the IRS as we know it and repeals the 16th Amendment
              >> http://www.hermancain.com/999plan

              More on the Fair Tax – 50 questions answered in 50 1 minute to 3 minute segments –
              >> 50 Video segments – http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer

              More on the Flat Tax –
              >> FreedomWorks – http://www.freedomworks.org/issues/flat-tax
              >> Alvin Rabushka – http://flattaxes.blogspot.com/
              >> Alvin Rabushka – click book links – http://www.hooverpress.org/productdetails.cfm?PC=1274
              >> Gingrich v Perry – http://www.newt.org/news/lets-bump-plans-comparison-gingrich-and-perrys-flat-tax-plans

              Dittos, have a nice day williamm…

              … until later…

              …because the defense of the truth about what is “fair” and what is not will never end until persuasive words become convincing…

              …based on what is “fair,” not what is “entitled” by BIG Gov fiat and so should be retained…

              …to protect the poor, of course.

              Art

              • Anonymous

                “But your points are lost on our forum friend and sparing partner williamm ”

                That offends me.

                I prefer to take the high road but am capable of playing in the gutter when necessary.

                I have never attacked anyone personally unless they do it first. If you want to have a civil discussion, I’m all for it.

                This will take time to go through all 50 talking points, but I will take the time.

                First part:

                ” Everyone will get the amount of tax they will pay on essential goods and services in advance of having to spend that money. ”

                That is incorrect. It will cover my monthly expenditures if I was at the poverty level of 10,890, but that isn’t the case. My expenditures are approx 1600.00 dollars and I could give up my internet and cut it down to to 1530.00. At 23% the tax would be 351.90 and after the prebate i would lose 143.90 every month.

                Now as of Oct 16,Cain is calling the prebate another entitlement program.

                Do you see anything incorrect in my figures?

                Keep it civil and on the issues I’ll do the same.

                • http://profiles.google.com/ajtelles Art Telles

                  Huh…?

                  williamm, those words are definitely not, yes, not offensive.

                  You are projecting something nefarious onto friendly, yes, friendly words.

                  There is absolutely nothing offensive about “points are lost” is there?
                  There is absolutely nothing offensive about “forum friend” is there?
                  There is absolutely nothing offensive about “sparring partner” is there?

                  Your projecting negativity onto friendly words could therefore be considered offensive, couldn’t it?

                  Think about it.

                  If the word “friend” is used in the comment to bobnus above, how can “friend” be considered offensive?

                  If the word “sparring” is used in connection with the friendly word “friend,” how can “sparring” be considered offensive?

                  What is missing in this picture?
                  What is the point of contention in saying friendly words are offensive?

                  However, the offensive words in your comment above are
                  -gutter
                  -when necessary
                  -never attacked anyone personally
                  -unless they do it first
                  -keep it civil

                  Why the uncivil words… and their uncivil intent?

                  Do you see how using such words in response to “forum friend” and “sparring parther” could be considered offensive themselves… without cause.

                  Concerning whether your figures are correct or incorrect, this forum is probably not the best place for extended point-counterpoint with accountant type green eyeshade number crunching about right or wrong numbers and tax implications.

                  Until later…

                  …because the defense of the truth about what is “fair,” yes, FAIR, and what is not will never end until persuasive words become convincing…

                  …based on what is “fair,” yes, FAIR, not what is “entitled” by BIG Gov fiat and so should be retained…

                  …to protect the poor, of course.

                  And of course, those are friendly words, because ALL of us want to protect the poor, don’t we?

                  Art

                • Anonymous

                  The part about the points being lost on me bothers me since I’ve done more research using real math than than I suspect you have. I understand you don’t want to discuss my figures on here, and since I deal with facts, there is no reason for us to discuss this anymore. Have a great day.

                • http://profiles.google.com/ajtelles Art Telles

                  Lost…

                  bobnus’ points being lost on you is not a reference to you, but to bobnus’ points will not be accepted by you because there are not any supporting “real math” numbers in bobnus’ points.

                  It seems to me that bobnus was making a “big picture” point, as I have been doing all along, while you are making a specific “real math” point, as you have been doing all along.

                  The “big picture” is concerned with what is “fair” for the many.
                  The “real math” is concerned with what effect it will have for the few.

                  Other than that, “real math” for the few is definitely important, but something seems to be missing when it is not in the context of the “big picture” for the many.

                  See, we have come to a mutual point of understanding, it seems, about what is “fair” for the many AND the few.

                  Yes…

                  …there is no reason for us to discuss this anymore.

                  Until later.

                  Art

  • http://www.noneedforastinkingwebsite.com dow daytrader

    …and Limbaugh was right in saying that Cain was right (both in Libya and collective bargaining) …and conservatives continue to eat their own…

    • http://twitter.com/torquepilot JCLISE

      Libya and Egypt are both a threat to Israel with the regime changes and the “brotherhood” waiting in the wings! Mr. Cain was right on the money !

  • http://twitter.com/torquepilot JCLISE

    Mr. Cain has an undergraduate degree in mathematics and a graduate degree in computer science from Purdue and you question his intelligence?

    • B-Funk

      Thank you! I was hoping someone would bring that up. Why are we eating our own? Good grief! So the man had a bad gaffe. Why should we throw someone under the bus who had a brain fart when he stands for conservatives? Especially when we have a Prez who is calling us lazy?! Thank you for making the statement JCLISE!

  • Daumin Franks

    Hah! I’d forgotten about that Obama tongue stumble from 2008. That one was truly epic.

    And we’ll never know how many more of these he committed privately talking to reporters, etc. during that campaign because the media doesn’t expose Obama’s mistakes. Quite the contrary.

  • Anonymous

    We really have to evaluate a person’s overall stance on these issues rather than one sound byte from one interview. No one will ace every interview.

    Herman Cain on Unions
    He supported Scott Walker and spoke at the rally this year – http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7yxVpYFYNI

    Cain is against the Employee Free Choice act (forced unionization) – (www.hermancain.com/ “Issues” , May 21, 2011)

    He is against Card Check – (Political column, THE New Voice, “Card Check Lies” , Feb 9, 2009)

    His empowerment zones are right to work only – http://www.redstate.com/laborunionreport/2011/10/20/union-bosses-unleash-on-herman-cain-for-targeting-unions-sacred-cows/

  • Jeff Song

    It’s ok for Rush to compare to Obama if he is trying to put the left in place, but if you want to look at who should win the primaries, then the comparison to Obama is irrelevent.

    RS – I think that all the foreign policy stuff we have been presented with is all the “big picture” stuff. We haven’t got anywhere near any weeds. I think there is a lot of foreign policy knowledge needed to keep on track with the “big picture” stuff.

    If you don’t want a president led by advisors then he will need to be strong on his foreign policy PRIOR to listening to their advise.

    Dealing with businesses is much different. The system is in place for getting successfull businesses again and again. It is a well established pattern – you just need a good disiplined leader to follow that pattern. There is creativity involved too – I understand that, since that is how you get a Steve Jobs. Herman Cain is no Steve Jobs – he appears to be your run of the mill successful businessmen. Commendable, but it doesn’t qualify him to manage a country.

    • http://www.facebook.com/joeywatkinsim Joseph Watkins

      So, I take it you would be pushing Steve Jobs for president if he were still alive?! You really are not helping your case or making much sense. No one is a master of all fields. More importantly, being aware of one’s own shortcomings and addressing it by surrounding yourself with good advisors is essential. Frankly, we have way bigger problems to solve internally than overseas. We need to get our house in order before cleaning up Obama’s mess overseas.

      • Jeff Song

        No – I wouldn’t be pushing Steve Jobs to be president. You are using bad logic.

        In the last paragraph I was pointing out that although being a successful businessman gives you certain useful skills, it doesn’t qualify you to be a president. I interjected Steve Jobs for those that would rightfully point out that there is a level of creativity in business and not just a set pattern.

        I agree that the bigger problem is internal and will be the eventual downfall of the empire. I just think the person that can explain why the mess happened is the best to clean it up. Cain has said that the ones that were predicting the mess were “not only wrong, but irresponsible”, so he is not the man.

  • Anonymous

    Leave it to Rush to broadcast the obvious, that many of us posted here yesterday.

  • http://twitter.com/BorisBad Boris Badenough

    Let’s keep our eyes on the prize ladies and gentlemen. The greatest limitation on our personal freedom in the last 100 years is the INCOME TAX! Cain is the only candidate to have the ultimate goal of eliminating the income tax, which was given to us by PROGRESSIVES nearly 100 years ago. It is truly the yoke of government slavery placed around our necks. It created a new class of “criminals” that had never existed before. It gave government the power to take everything away from you, from your personal property to your physical freedom!

    If we are lucky enough to get the 9-9-9 plan and, ultimately, the Fair Tax, this country will experience more growth than at any time since the Industrial Revolution, a time when no federal income tax existed! Cain says annual GDP growth under 9-9-9 will be 5%. That is a dramatic UNDERstatement. Try more than 10% and, when we ultimately transition to eliminating all income taxes and replace them with a straight national sales tax, the annual GDP growth number is in excess of 13%. That rivals CHINA! Remember that sucking sound that took all those jobs out of America? Get ready to suck all those jobs BACK IN to this country with 9-9-9!

    If Cain isn’t the greatest speaker on every topic I can forgive him that. We already have one of those in the White House and look where that took us! What is important are the beliefs that are at Mr. Cain’s CORE, quite unlike Romney who doesn’t even have a core!

    And before we become entirely enamored of Newt, remember that Newt is the man who said “it takes a big government to do big things.” Does that sound like a small government guy to you? He also supported a mandate making purchase of health insurance compulsory, just like Romney. Newt also made his first order of business as a presidential candidate to go on Meet The Press and TRASH the Ryan plan!

    CEO’s never handle the details. Others are hired to attend to those. We understand what Herman Cain believes. I believe Cain’s core is closer to Reagan’s than any other candidate. Did Reagan oversee the day to day minutia of implementing his policies? NO! He laid out his principles and delegated others to incorporate those principles into policy. Cain will do the same!

    • Anonymous

      cain may have the right principles but he needs to beat the msm and obama before implementing 999 and he can’t do that sounding like this…he has flubbed so many times already…he has been running for quite some time now how can he not know this stuff he is taking his supporters for granted by not studying up on these issues…it is sad.

      • http://www.noneedforastinkingwebsite.com dow daytrader

        Keep in mind that Cain is right on the big picture stuff; he’s problems with execution and “fine details”…BUT …keep in mind our ‘tiger’ Rush WILL GO TO THE MAT to defend “Herb”……..Rush will not go to the mat for Newt or Mitt….so Cain needs to hang in there and cause all the others to drop out/run out of $$$ and be the ‘last man standing’ that is NOT Romney…and Cain will pull it out…just get John Bolton glued to his side and Cain will be fine….’As my future Secretary of State Bolton says….”, that should be Cain’s standard line…

      • http://twitter.com/BorisBad Boris Badenough

        I think America knows enough about the King of Teleprompters to have had quite enough of that style. Cain isn’t perfect be he is no slouch when it comes to oratory. The fact that he isn’t 100%, I believe, serves as a positive in the eyes of most people!

    • http://twitter.com/torquepilot JCLISE

      Absolutely correct, Boris! Snide quips and mundane knowledge can’t be substituted for CHARACTER! Gingrich was rebutted by his fellow repubs in Congress!

    • Jeff Song

      It all starts with spending. Cut spending and you can cut taxes. Too much spending also requires the FED to print more money, which causes the devaluation of the dollar — which is shown as inflation. Inflation is just as much of a tax as any other tax and is caused by the FED by printing money and manipulating the interest rate.

      The 999 plan doesn’t help the economy – it is the simplification of the tax code that all the candidates offer that will help the economy. The more money that is diverted from the government to the people will be what really helps — ie. less spending and less revenue intake. 999 is just something catchy that people can latch on to like “yes we can”. (can’t forget less regulation of course)

      • http://twitter.com/torquepilot JCLISE

        HINT: Read some of the other posts, especially on 9-9-9!

        • Jeff Song

          I have read plenty. I’m not here to debate whether the 999 is a good plan or not. I’m pointing out a few things with the main point being CUT SPENDING by $1T immediately.

          I was showing:

          1) What part of the plan that is really the beneficial part. Therefore don’t waste time trying to get other things in place that are potentially harmfull or at best are minumally affective.

          2) Spending is the problem that needs to be tackled, with quick, easy, tax changes that reduce revenue to get money to where it should be.

          3) Inflation is a tax which is brought on by too much spending and the FED.

          • http://twitter.com/torquepilot JCLISE

            Spending cuts are definitely mandatory along with reduction in corporate taxes.

          • http://twitter.com/BorisBad Boris Badenough

            Cain has stated he would cut spending by 10% across the board immediately and then do a “deep dive” into every federal agency where he would cut 10% more. Did you miss that Jeff?

            • Jeff Song

              No – I didn’t miss that. There are two problems with that though.

              1) His entire focus is on taxation which is the secondary problem – not the source problem.

              2) It’s not “Bold” enough.

              To top that – he doesn’t really understand why the economy is in a mess. That is why in 2005 he mocked those that said the housing bubble would collapse soon. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tn0EApd5wgw

              We need someone that understands Austrian economics instead of one that likes to have Keynsian economic advisors. Someone that knows when and why there are problems rather than the person that mocks those that know trouble is coming.

              • http://twitter.com/BorisBad Boris Badenough

                1) Given that Cain has said he would institute 10% across the board cuts and would find an additional 10% categorically refutes your assertion that “his entire focus in on taxation”.

                2) Cain’s spending cut proposal is far bolder than most. For example, the “penny plan” being talked about in conservative circles calls for 1% spending cuts per year for 6 consecutive years for a total of 6%.

                My #1 issue is elimination of the Income Tax. Name another candidate that supports that please.

                • Jeff Song

                  Ron Paul is working towards zero income tax. His INITIAL tax plan is for reducing the revenue instead of keeping it “revenue neutral”. He also wants to START with $1T cut immediately in order to get that money from government to the people. Kinda like post WWII except not quite as bold.

                  To help with this he would eliminate 5 useless departments as quick as he could work with congress to get this done.

                  Since he understands the goings on with the FED – there is also $1.5T in fake debt to the FED that he would eliminate right away – this would help tide things over for the first two years – since the there is only 1 to 4 years window to fix things, this is important

                  The most important thing to know about this is that Ron Paul is the only candidate that new this mess would happen and he explained ahead of time why it would happen – Cain never used his name, but he did say it was ignorant and irresponsible for saying such things.

                  The one who knows how we got in this mess is the one to help work our way out of it.

                • http://twitter.com/BorisBad Boris Badenough

                  Jeff, I just knew I was talking to a Ron Paul supporter. Love him on domestic policy. However, what good is a great domestic policy if we are ALL DEAD?

                  Ron Paul’s foreign policy would get us all KILLED! He recently equated the Iranians having nukes to the Soviet Union. Problem is, the Soviets weren’t willing to die in order to kill us. The Iranians are. That makes them more dangerous than either the Soviets or the Nazis, who weren’t trying to make a beeline to their 72 virgins.

                  In addition, Sunday before last, I heard Ron Paul say he thought we should be friends with the Iranians. The last guy I heard make that statement was Barack Obama!

                  Sorry, Ron Paul is a non-starter with me.

                • Jeff Song

                  If you really understood Ron Paul’s foreign policy you would know that he is the toughest of them all. If there is any real threat to the US Ron Paul would get congressional approval then he would go in with an all out war and finish it as fast as possible and then get out.

                  You are talking like you want your president to go to war because you are afraid that Iran might attack. Does that make any sense? Do you not thing that the US military intelligence would know well in advance of an attack was immenent? It’s like your afraid of a barking dog a few blocks away so you shoot it in the head.

                  Ron Paul is on record saying that in a similar 911 situation he would have attacked differently, but tougher. No apologies like the war mongers are suggesting. He did not justify the attack on 911 that the war mongers suggest.

                  Why not trade and use the 13000 diplomats to do what they are supposed to (ie use diplomacy) and if any one dares to threaten the US then declare war and wipe them out.

                  Or are you going to pee your pants over the verbal assaults of a 3rd world cult dictator and keep on talking about the poor helpless US that is clueless of what is going on so they have to have preemptive wars – very progressive like.

                • http://twitter.com/BorisBad Boris Badenough
                • Jeff Song

                  I lived through the Soviet threat and for you to suggest that they are less of a threat then you are the crazy one.

                  Also the CIA disagress with you about the 72 virgins theory of the Islam threat. You have a much bigger Islam threat internally with the infiltration of big government programs and political correctness (another big gov problem). Preemptive / policing the world type Wars help create a bigger government and gives the UN more power with each war.

                  Ron Paul was on the Foriegn Affairs committee, so he does have more inside information then you do.

                • http://twitter.com/BorisBad Boris Badenough

                  I lived through the Soviet threat too. And for you not to realize that the Iranians will attempt to NUKE US whether Ron Paul is president or not, makes YOU the crazy one. The Iranians are SUICIDAL! The Soviets were not.

      • http://twitter.com/BorisBad Boris Badenough

        I’m going to have to disagree with you there Jeff. I spent 20 years on Wall Street. I have run these numbers along with others who have followed this sort of thing for decades. 9-9-9 doesn’t do anything to help the economy? WHAT??? You drop the corporate tax rate to 9% and you will see more jobs in this country than we will know what to do with, so many that we will be begging the Mexicans to come north because we won’t be able to fill them all!

        • Jeff Song

          No disagreement here. Simplify the tax code and drop the corporate tax rate — sounds fine to me. You don’t need a catchy 999 plan to do this. Introducing a national sales tax is just complicating the issue. The corporate tax rate is really a sales tax anyway, since the “expense” is just passed on to the consumer. Why replace one sales tax with another?

          Cain was right in the past when he said he supported the existing “Fair tax” bill which had a provision in it that would ensure the sales tax wouldn’t be put in place until the constitution was ammended to remove the income tax. I’m not sure if I want the fair tax anyway, but if you are going to do it, that is the way to do it. Otherwise it “won’t be implemented properly”.

          • http://twitter.com/BorisBad Boris Badenough

            Why is it necessary to repeal the 16th amendment? Look at the first two years of Obama. The Dems could have raised current income tax rates anytime they wanted. Did they? NO! Why? Because they knew it would be political suicide. And that was in an environment where 47% of Americans pay no income tax at all! With 9-9-9 everybody pays and when EVERYBODY pays something if congress tries to raise taxes EVERYBODY SCREAMS! That makes 8-8-8 or 7-7-7 far more likely than the other way around.

            • Jeff Song

              You should lookup what Cain said to understand why. He explained it quite well at that time.

              The screaming your talking about only happens in times of economic destruction. You can see by history that it doesn’t always happen. You can look at Europe to see what could happen with the triple tax system.

              Why do you have a problem with 47% of the people not paying any income tax? I though you wanted to get rid of it? As Ron Paul says “were halfway there!”. Just imagine how the economy would be if all those 47% were working and not paying income tax – it would be great – the other half would be able to stop paying as well. : )

              Lets look at reducing tax instead of introducing another tax tool – that can only be done by cutting spending and reining in the FED’s power.

              • http://twitter.com/BorisBad Boris Badenough

                9-9-9 eliminates far more “tax tools” than it creates. And Ron Paul will get us all killed. No thanks on Ron Paul!

                • Jeff Song

                  I started looking at the links you supplied in the branch above, but I stopped part way through the seocnd one, because it was going over old foolish things that I have already seen.

                  It’s shameful that you believed what was said without checking things out. The first link was playing fast and loose with facts and opinions. Let’s take an easy example – when the article gave a link to a video with Ben Stien calling Ron Paul an anti-semite, it went on in a very conspiritorial tone asking why would Ben call him an anti-semite if Ben didn’t know Ron’s background. Just listen to the video and you will know why – it is because Ben didn’t like the facts from the CIA that Ron Paul was presenting.

                  The whole article was filled with pulp conspiracy theory garbage. There is obviously too much in that article for me even to start addressing it further.

                  We need clearer heads if were going to sort anything out in this foreign policy stuff.

                • Jeff Song

                  A little hint at what some of the other problems are with the link:

                  Right vs left conservative vs liberal vs neo-liberal false paradime instead of big gov. vs small. Tyrants use war to keep control over the people at home. ie. reduction of civil liberties (patriot act).

                  False accusation of isolationist, since it is the war mongers that don’t want to trade or have diplomatic relations with other countries that are the isolationists.

                  Race baiting garbage – they might as well join the NAACP.

                  It would have been interesting instead if you told me what was wrong with the things I stated were Ron Paul’s stance on Foreign policy. Obviously it is not complete, but it is a start. Have you listened to Ron Paul’s interviews on foreign policy? He does get into quite a bit of detail.

                • http://twitter.com/BorisBad Boris Badenough

                  I already told you my objections to Ron Paul’s foreign policy. You simply refuse to accept what I said. Ron Paul will get us KILLED!

      • Anonymous

        999 not only simplifies the tax code but, more importantly, it is a stepping stone to the FairTax. Moving to the FairTax, a consumption tax, is an absolutely monumental step towards getting the government out of our lives. Nothing could be more conservative.

        • Jeff Song

          He is trusting congress to be able to get a second tax reform in place.

          How about reduce the spending so that you can reduce taxes further, then you can get rid of the income tax and the corporate tax over time. Spending is the problem – it is a waste of time to try to get two major tax reforms done. Less spending and the reigning in of the FED’s power will be what will allow tax reduction.

          • Anonymous

            There is absolutely no doubt that tax reform, spending cuts and regulatory reform are absolutely necessary. We are rapidly approaching the point that getting our financial house in order is no longer optional. Further downgrades and real consequences are imminent.

            I absolutely disagree that trying to get both tax reform and spending cuts done is a waste of time. If the American people understand the problem as well as the solutions, they will insist that both get done. Herman Cain will explain the solutions to the people and they will pressure their representatives to get it done. That’s why we need LEADERSHIP. He’s not trusting Congress, he’s trusting the American people.

            I’m hearing reports this morning that the so-called Supercommittee might rely on one-time gimmicks to meet their goal. If we don’t get past politics as usual crap like that, we’re dead. Things like that have gotten us $15 trillion in the hole.

  • Anonymous

    I tend to pull for the ‘underdog’ sometimes, especially when they’ve got the right stuff. In this case, the right stuff is wisdom and leadership in a marinade of character and integrity.

    • Jeff Song

      Funny – brings back my childhood memories. late 60’s early 70’s?

    • Anonymous

      You’re a good man, I was pulling for McCotter, look where he ended up, still, we have a process at work and I can tell you my knees are working overtime.

    • http://no-apologies-round2.blogspot.com/ AmericanborninCanada

      Excellent!! I love it when folks turn on the cartoons! :-D

      • Anonymous

        I can’t get the surprised look off my face :-O)

  • http://www.facebook.com/rightstuffnovelties Right Stuff

    Obama said there were 57 states, Newt spoke with Nancy Pelosi about the threat of global warming, Perry forgot his own plan. Haters use these incidents to discredit a candidate they already dislike. The truth is Herman gives us the best chance to win. I like Newt, his knowledge of the political landscape, but he lacks appeal outside of our base. Anyone who knows politics will tell you appeal trumps substance 90% of the time. Herman Cain has both. Unlesss we want a repeat of 2008, we better take the horse blinders off. A tidal wave of demographics is coming, and unless we begin to take advantage of competent, conservatove minorities, we will forever become a fringe element. We cannot continue to lose 75% of the minority vote – a segment of the population which is by far outgrowing traditional white America – our fall will be inevitable. Leaders like Herman Cain, Allen West and Marco Rubio represent true opportunity and change. Newt is extremely capable, but that’s not the issue. He will be stereotyped as the old, boring, elitist Republican. And it’s only a matter of time before the MSM airs his dirty laundry…flip flops, extra marital affairs, etc. This notion that Newt win will the presidency solely by debating Obama is fiction. Obama will only agree to several debates, of which, he will throw out a few empty but memorable barbs which the leftist media will repeatdely air to spin as a draw. The rest of the time he will have to find a way to appeal to America, independents, and disenfranchised Democrats. Charisma and energy are not part of his strong attributes. Being part of the establishment is. This isn’t about personal choices, it’s about choosing the candidate that gives us the best chance to win in November. Will we learn?

    • http://no-apologies-round2.blogspot.com/ AmericanborninCanada

      Excellently said Right Stuff. I’d like your comment a few times if I could.

      • http://www.facebook.com/rightstuffnovelties Right Stuff

        Thank you!

  • Anonymous

    Mr. Cain has been campaigning for a while now, he had to come into the campaign with certitude that he would be required to have certain positions staked out. He also knew debating would be a part of the process, early on he stated he would brush up on major issues, consult advisers and get prepared. The whole porpose of challenging Obama, and the other candidates had to be based on his opinion of himself, his family, friends and advisers that he was better prepared and offered better ideas for this country. So far I don’t believe ha has done that and for those that do, you know I have tried to avoid trashing any candidates so when the time comes we could coalesce around the primary winner.

  • Anonymous

    Herman Cain was not giving a presentation at the time of the “pause.” He was sitting in a conference room with a few reporters. It wasn’t meant to be presentation quality and he just wanted to get the facts right, which, apparently he did. It’s the economy and LEADERSHIP, it’s not a comprehensive exam on foreign policy. Finally, our biggest national security threat, BY FAR, is our $15 trillion debt and 9.1% unemployment.

    • http://twitter.com/torquepilot JCLISE

      Don’t forget he has been hammered by the media and the establishment with false charges for 2-3 weeks.

      • Anonymous

        He has survived, but the witch hunt has taken its toll. He needs to get his second wind by sticking to friendly interviewers and positive events for a bit.

        I’m still behind him. I have absolutely no doubt that he “gets” what this economy needs. The fact that he’s supported the FairTax for years is evidence of that. I’m in the finance and tax industry and I don’t think that people have any idea what the FairTax would do for jobs and the economy. It is the closest thing to a silver bullet that we have. Along with some serious cuts, it would put us back in the black in no time.

        Finally, a successful American Black Conservative would change the political landscape forever.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_3WWBSB6XXSUU46PFX3L7NRFY6Q RODERICK

    Ever hear of RHETORICAL questions? Cain wasn’t asking what Obama did as if he didn’t know, rather a RHETORICAL question is a question you already know the answer to — you are simply reviewing. It is time to have a REAL American as president. Folks, if you jump to Newt or Romney now, the left-wing media will do as they did with their hand-picked McCain and destroy them in the general election; giving the White House back to Obama. Newt has baggage of 3 wives (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newt_Gingrich#Personal_life), having affairs on one to get the other. So if you think you will be clear of all this mess with Newt, you won’t. As for Romney, not only is he a demonstrated flip-flopper, we do have to consider he is a Mormon. Our beliefs DO drive our ideas. Would anyone have an issue if Romney was a member of the Branch Davidians? Mormonism was started by a guy who claimed he found golden plates in a gave in NY written in a secret language that required special glasses to read. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Smith_Jr.#Early_years)REALLY?? It doesn’t matter that is what Romney is following???

    • Anonymous

      I took it as a CLARIFYING question, not rhetorical.

    • KenInMontana

      The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

      Perhaps you’ve heard of the source of this quote, a little piece of parchment known as the US Constitution? More specifically, Article 4?

      • Anonymous

        VI, not IV

  • Anonymous

    Is anyone else listening to Perry on Hannity right now? He seems fluent on the issues. Is it too late for him?

    • http://twitter.com/BorisBad Boris Badenough

      Whether or not Perry is fluent on the issues doesn’t concern me. What does concern me is the proposals that he has put forward. I’ll address just one.

      Perry’s flat tax proposal takes far too much out of the economy. First, whenever you see a corporate income tax, assume that you are paying it, because YOU ARE! Corporations don’t pay taxes. Not really. They simply build the cost of their tax burden into the price of everything that we buy.

      With that preface, Perry calls for a 20% corporate income tax, a 20% personal income tax and leaves the 15.3% payroll tax in place. That adds up to 55.3% coming out of the economic pie. PLUS Perry also leaves in place a whole host of federal taxes eliminated by 9-9-9, including, but not limited to, gasoline tax, firearms tax, insurance tax, alcohol tax, tobacco tax etc etc. That is a whole lot of tax left in place. Add to that, since Perry allows the choice of staying with the old tax code, that means you would still need to pay an accountant in order to determine if you pay less tax under his new tax plan or the old tax code. That is nearly another $500 BILLION needlessly paid to accountants and tax attorneys that would be much better off staying in YOUR pocket and in the economy as a whole.

      9-9-9 is easy enough to understand. 9 X 3 = 27% coming out of the economy. 9-9-9 eliminates the payroll tax and all those other taxes mentioned above. And you only pay that last 9 (the sales tax) if you spend 100% of everything that you earn on NEW goods and services. If you don’t then the amount coming out of the economy is LESS than 27%.

      The more you take out of the economy the less the economy grows. The less you take out of the economy the more the economy grows. It’s just that simple! There is the math. You be the judge!

      • Anonymous

        I agree. I would love to move toward a comsumption tax. Unfortunately, with half the voting public not paying taxes, and having to push 999 through congress, I am afraid it will never happen.

        Even if we had huge majorities in both houses, his 999 plan has not gotten enough conservative support. It is just not popular enough, unfortunately, and the president cannot do things singlehandedly like the president of a company would be able to do.

        • http://twitter.com/BorisBad Boris Badenough

          Terri, if Cain gets the nomination and goes on to win the general election with 9-9-9 as the central plank in his campaign platform he will have been given an electoral mandate to pass 9-9-9. What you have said was also said of Reagan’s ability to get his agenda through a Democrat congress. HE DID! The likelihood is Cain will be dealing with Republican majorities in both The House and Senate. I’d say that would make the likelihood of Cain getting 9-9-9 through congress even greater than was the case when Reagan pushed his agenda through a Democrat congress!

          • Anonymous

            I hope you are right. I read a lot of conservative blogs, and not everyone is into it. I also think it will be difficult because congress just generally can’t or won’t do anything hard. Except for Obamacare, and they thought they had a mandate for that, and I think most of them paid a political price for it.

            As I said, I like a consumption tax. I just don’t see it happening. I will be happy to be wrong.

            • http://twitter.com/BorisBad Boris Badenough

              Teri, ObamaCare only passed because, at that time, The Dems held the White House, The House of Representatives AND the Senate. I suspect that will be the case for the Republicans in 2013!

              • Anonymous

                we need 60 senate seats.

                • http://twitter.com/BorisBad Boris Badenough

                  That is entirely possible There are 23 Democrat incumbent Senate seats up for reelection next year.

          • http://twitter.com/torquepilot JCLISE

            We have to remember we have to get control of the Senate!

        • http://no-apologies-round2.blogspot.com/ AmericanborninCanada

          I haven’t paid fed. income tax for a few years, because we have no money. That said, I’d take Cain’s 999 plan over the current thousands of pages of federal legalized theft, especially for businesses because I know that if business get tax breaks, they don’t charge as much to keep competative. More demand for their goods, the more people they need to hire to make them. Sounds good to alot of us unemployed folk.

    • http://twitter.com/torquepilot JCLISE

      YES-Illegal immigration is his albatross!

      • Anonymous

        are you referring to his in-state tuition, or do you think he is soft on the border? I think he has made it clear that he wants that border closed.

        Texas voted overwhelmingly for the in-state tuition, so a very conservative state thought that economically it made sense. Heck, they are giving my kid in-state tuition too, and he never lived there a day in his life. They seem to have the money to do it, and expect to get something in return.

        I think in a general election, we need to be careful not to alienate Hispanic-Americans. I hate illegal immigration, but we need to win this election.

        • http://twitter.com/torquepilot JCLISE

          I believe the Tea Party will play a big role in this nomination! The illegal immigration tuition deal will not pass with the Tea Party!

          • Anonymous

            Agree. but we still need to keep from alienating the Latinos or we will lose the general election. I think some people (not on this site) need to tone down their rhetoric. I think we are misunderstood, but perception is what drives voters.

        • Anonymous

          Yes I did hear Perry on Hannity a while ago and he was very impressive. I love that he wants to cut Congress down to half year, with half the staff!! Its about time!!

        • http://no-apologies-round2.blogspot.com/ AmericanborninCanada

          I think a lot of the hispanic voters who are here legally detest the fact that so many come here illegally and would go for legislation to control the border a la federal law that is already on the books.

          • Anonymous

            I think they SHOULD detest those who break our laws. That’s why I am always surprised at how rapidly we are losing the Hispanic vote. We really cannot afford to. I was pleased when Gingrich reminded the audience that we like LEGAL immigration. It needs to be spelled out, unfortunately.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_ARRB3B6B7PK3FKPT3ZGLTQ3FWA Froggey1

    Let me get this straight…
    Cain takes too long to answer a question on Libya, as he was trying to make sure he doesn’t get caught up in a “gotcha” from journalists by answering too quickly or contradicting himself – and people say that is BAD?
    But Newt FLIP FLOPS on his Libya answer and people say he is the SMART one? http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/03/newt-gingrichs-libya-shift-issue-by-issue.php

  • wlowry10

    When we got King Barrack he had NO International experience, NO real world experience, and NEVER even had a real job! I will take Cain ANY day over what we have now!

  • Anonymous

    i completely agree with this assessment, “I think he’s being overly cautious in dealing with the media and it leads him to terrible gaffes like yesterday.” He needs to stop worrying about it & just be himself. this garbage that crept out from under the Dem baseboards will hang themselves in the process of trying to keep their stories straight. flash in the pan and a pain to deal with, but Herman needs to keep on, keepin’ on.

  • Anonymous

    i completely agree with this assessment, “I think he’s being overly cautious in dealing with the media and it leads him to terrible gaffes like yesterday.” He needs to stop worrying about it & just be himself. this garbage that crept out from under the Dem baseboards will hang themselves in the process of trying to keep their stories straight. flash in the pan and a pain to deal with, but Herman needs to keep on, keepin’ on.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_JT6RK4NQME54FA3FVYTTHLTRTQ Southnsoul

    Thank you, Rush for AGAIN bringing sanity to the madness. I am so disgusted and utterly fed up with those on the right that have joined the liberal media in attacking Herman Cain over this. Michele Malkin, who I used to respect, even referred to it as a scandal! Yet, Rick Perry freezes up on national television and can’t even remember his own policy in regard to cutting one of only three agencies and is still being considered by Republican voters as qualified to be president.

    • http://twitter.com/torquepilot JCLISE

      Dittos on Malkin! I couldn’t believe she said that!

  • Anonymous

    It is not that Cain is “stupid.” The problem is that he is uninformed as to these foreign policy issues and seems to lack a conviction in his beliefs.

    If I am committed to a way of thinking on an issue, it is relatively easy for me to remember my position because I have conviction. Cain is simply unprepared and too worried about repeating the “right” position on the issues.

    If he were younger, I think he could fix this issue and come back stronger. Put him at Treasury to clean up the Tax Cheat’s mess under the Gingrich Administration. Problem solved!

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ricardo-Galvan/100001729378103 Ricardo Galvan

      Newt? That RINO? Please.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michelle-L-Stokes-Stanford/699686011 Michelle L. Stokes-Stanford

    FYI, Mr. Cain did the interview after approx. 4 hours of sleep. I don’t function at full capacity after such a busy schedule either. Collective bargaining used to be the thing to do. My grandfather was a negotiator for his fellow workers years ago (my mother was a child at the time and told me about it when I discussed this issue with her a yesterday) and they (the employees) would work with the employer to improve working conditions/wages. It didn’t cause a burden to taxpayers since it was not a union on the take. As to foreign policy, I prefer someone in the office of the President of the United States who will take the time to think over the problem, not jump in. Libya is now under the control of a branch of the Muslim Brotherhood (as I understand it) so maybe Obama should have thought instead of jumping in bc he wanted Quaddafi out. We know from looking back into the past that those we help in this way often target us in the future.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_FNNAQSCCVRDJRXLM5YBS4WP5HQ jay

    Ann coulter is correct when she says, “Our Blacks Are So Much Better Than Their Blacks”.

  • Anonymous

    I think Rush is wrong to support Cain on this. Whether or not Cain finally got it right is only part of the equation. What we’re seeing is that Cain hasn’t done his homework for (IMO) the most important political battle of all time. Certainly it is the most important political battle of America’s history. It’s not business, Herman, it’s life or death for America.

    You can’t go into the arena unprepared and expect to come out alive. And this time, the candidate who carries the Stars and Stripes into the arena will determine if America lives or dies, right now, not in some possible future time. If obama somehow wins, I give us one year max before America goes under completely. Dissolves, dissipates, vanishes, in a cloud of confusion and riots and chaos and anarchy and then dictatorship.

    These candidates want to represent my country, and I want the most competent warrior we have to lead the fight. OK, she went back to Alaska. The most competent warrior we have left. And it’s obvious that Herman Cain is not that candidate.

    • http://twitter.com/cfallon57 Cheryl Fallon

      The definition of warrior is somebody who takes part in a struggle or conflict-that is what Mr. Cain is doing-SP is working to make money through political speeches across the country!

      Anyone one of those candidates will be far better than another four years of O!

      • Anonymous

        Whichever candidate faces obama will have to win before he replaces obama, and I no longer think Cain can do that.

        After watching Cain’s various fumbles, especially the pathetic Libya response, I think obama would make Cain look ridiculous. More ridiculous, I should say.

        Cain didn’t just forget his answer, like Perry – Cain had no idea what to say, and his attempts to disguise that fact were pitiful. He should have been ready. Instead, he looked like he’d taken a hard punch to the solar plexus. Could we trust him to GET ready before he’s inaugurated? Or after he’s inaugurated? I don’t think so. CAN he get ready? Is he capable of understanding all he needs to know? Is he willing and able to make a decision without holding a committee meeting? When something goes wrong, as it always does, would Cain be more focused on fixing it – or would he be frantically pointing the finger at other people, trying to avoid blame?

        An undercurrent I hear in all of Cain’s excuses and re-phrasings and second attempts is, “Uh-uh! You’re not going to blame it one me! You’re at fault for not making it clear, for not listening to my answer, for the way you phrased the question….”

        Cain would make a lousy chess player, because he (apparently) does not think ahead, and politics is the ultimate 3D chess game.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ricardo-Galvan/100001729378103 Ricardo Galvan

          What nonsense. Anyone who doubts what Cain can do should watch how he schooled Clinton on healthcare.

          • Anonymous

            “One swallow doth not a summer make.”

            One fumble doth not a political loser make. But a bunch of fumbles doth.

  • Anonymous

    As I said before – BRAIN FRIED. The lack of rest was obviously evident in the pauses during the Libya answer. Lack of rest, too much caffeine. He was having a hard time thinking straight. He shouldn’t have been there. Campaigners should have learned from BHO’s “Joe the Plumber” exchange how an exchange with even a constituent can go viral and hurt – let alone an interview with media. I agree with Rush, tho Cain’s answers were correct, his delivery sucked.

  • Anonymous

    “38 seconds of SHEER IGNORANT IDIOCY.” Hahahahahahhahahahahahaha. ROFL That’s the president, Rush. Don’t you know you can’t say things like that about the president? … NOT!! More, please!!!

    (Genuine thanks for the clip Scoop.
    It takes a big man to post a video which more or less reprimands his position a few hours before.)

  • http://profiles.google.com/ajtelles Art Telles

    Rush for the defense – against another hit job…

    Rush definitely knows how to defend “our” guys and gals… when they deserve defending, as Cain does concerning “the interview.”

    Rush’s comments today about Cain’s answers about collective bargaining and Libya mirror my own comments here yesterday when the majority of comments seemed to be piling on Cain as … not … getting … it … just … right … uh, immediately, like right NOW.

    It seems to me that Cain has learned to be more thoughtful, even shrewd, and requiring clarification from his interrogators, uh, interviewers.

    Cain can now come out with an ad about the “pause that refreshes” and put a humorous spin on an innocuous moment in one interview.

    If Cain took a long pause every time he was asked about collective bargaining, however, that would be a different issue.

    All the squirming about Cain’s fullness of understanding of international issues, names, events, is majoring on a minor issue of the vetting process.

    However, time will tell.

    Between now, Nov. 2011 and Nov 2012, Cain will reveal how quick and adept he is in becoming as informed about world events as former UN Ambassador John Bolton and Newton Gingrich have been since, well… forever.

    The opposition to Cain seems to be still majoring on minor issues.

    Art

  • Anonymous

    Common Guys! Mr. Cain has business records which could attest to his success. He did restructing of failed companies before, his records speak for itself. He did not hesitate in closing branches where there is no hope of profitability while strenghtening other weak branches in making them profitable. A businessman could not make decisions while he has not seen all details and specifics.

    What is it with you Americans? You are already being had by a smooth operator snake oil talker in the white house, yet you still base your voting prefences on how smooth a talker a person is? Have you not learned your lesson yet?

    How do you expect Mr. Cain to answer every detail like Gingrich, when he’s not an insider. He does not have access to specifics and news like Gingrich or the other candidates do. Mr. Gingrich and Mr. Paul have been long time resident of the Congress/senate, while the others have years inside the legislature, what did you expect? Look at Mr. Gingrich’s business records and compare them with Cain, and there is not even a comparison. Mr. Cain wins handily down. Wait when Gingrich will be grilled on his business records, and barbecue will not be enough to describe it. Conservatives should start asking Gingrich about his past business adventures before the democrats could grill him on that.

    • http://profiles.google.com/ajtelles Art Telles

      Dittos Ariadnea…

      “… business … success.”

      Getting informed about world events, people, issues is no different than getting up to speed on the issues confronting a business on the brink of bankruptcy.

      Herman Cain definitely “knows” how to define a problem and surround himself with experts who can help with the solution.

      Cain’s honesty about having different things rolling around in his mind is an innocuous moment of what the psychiatrists call “free association” while speaking extemporaneously.

      Cain’s ok… he’s doing good 99.999% (… yes, pun intended) of the time while speaking extemporaneously, it seems to me.

      Art

  • Anonymous

    I don’t really care that he didn’t know what the situation is on unions, collective bargaining and federal employees. Nor do I think his answer on Libya, finally, was terrible. The problem with Cain is his knowledge in every area, including economics, seems threadbare. How many times have we heard the same platitudes about ”this economy being on life support” and “a bold plan.” I’m not sure how much there is behind the curtain.

    • Anonymous

      And yet he still knows more than Obama. Face it, if Obama had been held to the Palin/Cane standard by the MSM he would never have become US Senator much less President. The only reason he sounds better than Cain is because he’s reading it off of a teleprompter. And when he screws up the media covers for him.

  • Robert White

    His answer was terrible. It was clear he was BS-ing — just like a 5th grader who did not do last night’s homework and is asked about it in class. It is obvious. You know in your heart it is obvious. And much as we would like to excuse it, you can’t. Because this is the Presidency of the United States we are talking about. Not senior class President or chairman of the Kiwanis club.

    • Anonymous

      And yet a SCOAMF sits in the Oval Office.

  • Steven

    Overblown, overblown, overblown! Stop buying into the media narratives meant to divide the conservative base and choose our candidates! How many times must I say this!

    Look, the problem some have is that they don’t know why they are supporting a candidate. You have to know why you support a candidate or else anything that comes up negative will have you running from this candidate to that candidate. It’s ridiculous! I know why I support Cain and the things the media (and yes it was the media) try to highlight to put Cain in a negative light don’t affect fundamentally why I support him. I knew, when I decided to support Cain that he was not a savant on foreign policy. Anyone who is supporting Cain because you thought he was an expert on foreign policy or that that was his strong suit, you will be disappointed and you should find another candidate to support. I also knew that Cain is not a politician and is not versed in the ways of Washington. Again, anyone who would support Cain thinking he is a political wizard or that he knows the ins and outs of Washington, you may want to consider another candidate.

    I support Cain precisely because he’s not a politician, that’s number one. I also support him because he’s fundamentally and unabashedly conservative. He embodies the ethos of the Tea Party, which is this awakening of conservatives outside the political system wanting to get in and change the system because America is in peril. Also, I support Cain because he has the right perspective. He is in it for the grandchildren. Isn’t it really about future generations? Don’t we owe it to the next generation to turn over an America better than what we received? And his perspective about what’s wrong with Washington. In Washington, things get done based on politics, i.e. what can get passed. But nothing is actually done to solve the problem. Cain is a problem solver. This is his background from being a mathematics major to being a CEO of a company facing bankruptcy. Lastly I support Cain for his boldness. It was bold enough for him to lift himself out of the segregated south and climb the corporate ladder to the top. It was bold enough to face down stage 4 cancer and still keep up his political activities. It even more bold for him to take on the challenge to run for president as a black conservative and take the flak from the Left (as he did on the Lawrence O’Donnel show) and keep his optimism, charisma, and overal great demeanor. His likeability will lift this nation’s spirits, because it seems he has a bottomless well of goodness in him and his love of this country is infectious! These are the reasons why I support Herman Cain for president in 2012!

    It’s not about a perfect candidate, but the right candidate. And Herman Cain embodies some of the qualities in a leader we desperately need right now in our country. Leave the wonkery to experts! Leadership is the criteria I measure candiadates for president and by that metric Cain is head and shoulders above the rest of the field. Cain is able, Cain 2012!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_MGRRWRQV3KX4V5SCOTQKXQE6MU Peter

    Cain appears to be the next Sarah Palin.

    Our next election could be as big of a sham as the last. Do you know why Sarah Palin’s bus tour was really canceled? Know what leaked out? Do you know why she stayed 30 miles away from the second debate and chose the death of Steve Jobs to announce that she’s not running? She’s dodging the media now because of this
    http://PalinsDirtyLittleSecret.blogspot.com/

    • Anonymous

      You need help. Whatever your taking you need to let it go. Crack does kill, so get help.

  • http://twitter.com/MinneMike Michael Wiley

    I’d say Cain is looking very presidential given the current Occupest:

    “When I meet with world leaders, what’s striking — whether it’s in Europe or here in Asia — the kinds of fundamental reforms and changes, both on the revenue side and the public pension side, that other countries are having to make are so much more significant than what we need to do in order to get our books in order,” Obama said. (Obama was speaking in Hawaii, 11-15-2011)

    “Barack Obama was guest of honor at a $35,800-a-couple fundraiser in Seattle today. He was very appreciative to his host Jon Shirley… It’s just unfortunate that he called him Mark.” – at Seattle Fundraiser, September 25, 2011

    “You Don’t want Billionaires to pay the same tax rate as JEW… I mean Janitors” – Barack Obama, speaking to Congressional Black Caucus, September 24, 2011

    “We’re the country that built the Intercontinental Railroad,” Barack Obama. On the Atchison, Topeka and the St. Tropez – Barack Obama, September 23, 2011

  • Steven

    Now I will address Scoop’s post. It goes to show you that to throw stones at someone for supposedly not knowing something you don’t know will make you out to be a fool. Scoop, Rush layed it all out for you and you still missed it. They have been after Cain since they realized his lead in the polls was no fluke. This began two weeks ago with the smear campaign orchestrated by Politico, which has failed. He is still in the top tier. Then they went after Mark Block to try to control Cain and that failed. Now, they are nitpiking anything he says. They are trying to get him on something to fit their narrative that Cain is not up for the job of president and you brought it, hook, line and sinker!

    There must have been a reason Scoop you originally supported Cain. You knew that Cain was not strong on foreign policy and yet you supported him. With that said, Cain has vastly improved in his foreign policy knowledge and just as Rush said, was right about Libya in the end and on collective bargaining.

    Let’s be frank, the reason why you have jumped off the Cain Train is because you do think he’s stupid. There’s no other explanation. But you fundamentally have lost perspective on a man of such accomplishment because you have brought into the media’s narrative. They have to portray Cain as an idiot otherwise Obama is toast. They don’t want to see Cain emerge as the nominee. This their tried and true template to destroy a conservative. Reagan is dumb, Bush is dumb, Cain is dumb! Never mind the accomplishments of these men. Or they go with conservatives are mean, like Nast Newt, etc. You can’t buy into their stereotypes and narratives, because it’s all political! Stick with the fundamentals. Why did you support Cain before? Has anything about that thing changed with Cain? If not, why did you get off the Cain Train?

  • http://www.facebook.com/david.klepinger David Klepinger

    The continued negative talk directed toward Herman and his campaign simply underscores what has been the case all along: The Democrats, as well as the GOP elite, are SCARED to death of a Cain Administration because it would set out to change too much of the establishment way of doing things, in both parties. The media will always aid the Democrats in their efforts to destroy an opponent, and in this case, the GOP establishment has been all too happy to allow the media and the Chicago Political Machine do their dirty work for them. So the question is: Who is the BEST person to bring real change to Washington? The answer is Herman Cain, and that SCARES today’s powerful elite more than the average person can possibly comprehend.

  • Anonymous

    Dude, let it go Rush. This isn’t a conspiracy. If Herman Cain was ready to answer questions like this, there wouldn’t be stories like this.

    • Mike Lee

      Exactly. Look at how much work Rush has to go through to defend him. No, there’s nothing wrong with pausing and thinking. But that isn’t what happened. Cain is far from an idiot. I think he’s smart (in certain ways). The MSM caricature is lame and typical of what they throw at Republicans. But he DOES indeed lack knowledge in certain areas. My question is: why hasn’t he bothered to get one or two people to coach him on the basics of these foreign policy issues?

  • B-Funk

    I see so many conservatives who are ready to quickly throw good conservatives under the bus. Why is that? The posts by RS and on RS from yesterday’s gaffe blog and then today’s just show a tendency to forget the fact that we’re trying to get a Conservative into the White House, not elect another talking head like Obama! Cain, nor any other person will be perfect. Nor will we share all of their opinions. We are trying to put in people who will stand up for our Constitution and will free us from an overbearing government! I don’t care a jot if he has a senior moment for 30 minutes as long as he can stand for truth and the Constitution at the end of the day! I don’t care if he’s the ugliest sad sack on the planet who can’t string three sentences together! I want to be free! I want my children to be free! I understand that he has to be able to clearly communicate principles. In Cain’s case, he does that 98% of the time. This discussion of whether or not he’s fit for presidency based on one botched interview and a couple botched comments is crazy! Might I remind you of all the speech gaffes Obama makes? Anytime he’s not on his teleprompter he makes dumb comments and sounds stupid. I refuse to throw Conservatives under the bus. Listen to Mark Levin’s take on this as well. Let’s quit eating our own and evaluate all our options on the basis of the issues and whether or not they communicate Conservatism. If Cain doesn’t represent your values, then don’t vote for him based on that.

  • Anonymous

    phlpn.es/7x9vmd

  • Anonymous

    The press used to be able to interview people without putting the entire video feed on the web. They were pretty decent about cutting out the parts where the interviewee was asking for clarification, or getting his or her thoughts together.

    Now it’s all different. It’s 24/7 gotcha-lism, and any speck is blown up into something ridiculously big. We know this, so we shouldn’t be caught up in it.

    Cain has to be like Rush, and demand uncut, unedited video, and remember to treat every second as if it were live on Meet The Press. Fine. He’d best get on that.

    But people need to relax a bit. It’s not like an actual vote has occurred.

    There are still more “debates.” And more interviews to come.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000220027383 Troy La Mana

    One smear didn’t work so they try something else. You don’t know what was said right after they ended the video.

  • Anonymous

    I’m really wondering how we in the peanut gallery have somehow become the see all and know all. We don’t want politics as usual but when someone who isn’t polished and or media slick comes along and makes mistakes, then it becomes like vulchers circling over the carcass. I don’t know if Mr. Cain is the right person but for heavens sake lighten-up and appreciate that he and the others are willing to subject themselves and their families to things most of us could never fathom. Just like Mr. Perry forgetting the 3rd agency – so what, did that warrant 2 days of beratement? Last time I looked all of these people were human. Maybe electing a teleprompter would be the answer and the human element wouldn’t get in the way. Oh wait, that’s already happened and it’s working great don’t ya think.

  • blackbird

    I wonder how Cain would deal with the public employee unions in Wisconsin

    • cyclorider007

      Cain supported Governor Scott Walker’s efforts against the Public Employee Unions in Wisconsin. Cain even led a Tea Party rally in Wisconsin to support Governor Walker.

      • blackbird

        Thanks for your reply, I did not know that.

  • Anonymous

    Are you a closet Romney supporter RIGHTSCOOP? There is nothing wrong with Cain except his not a politician. He’s to honest for that. That why I like him.

  • Anonymous

    Thanks Rush for some reality. Herman isn’t my 1st choice but I’m confident he’s a hell of a lot more capable based on his ACCOMPLISHMENTS than 99% of the politicians in DC. At least they’re accomplished crooks but our host here at Right Scoop has to be the biggest MSM sap on the net! Ol’ RS has bit on EVERY DAMN SMEAR the media puts out there.

    I appreciate him gathering all this info in one place but he needs to rein in his emotions before posting headlines. He is a gullible chump.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Joel-S-Miller/20711381 Joel S. Miller

    I have believed from the beginning, and still believe Cain is the best person to run for the presidency for a number of reasons. I want Obama out and think Cain gives many people real pause as to who they are to vote for. And yes I do want my president to be knowledgeable in a number of areas, I know my current numb nut president only knows how to rile people up, which goes along with his career of “community organizer”. Cain can wipe the floor with him, as many of the republican candidates could, and make people ask that question, “why in the world did I ever vote for that guy?!”

  • http://www.facebook.com/steamboat2302 Joshua Saunders

    Good evening everyone,

    I was hoping I would never have to write this, and if by some miracle I am wrong about this I will be happy because the Herman Cain that I’ve read about was about as conservative as you get from all but the federal reserve standpoint. Nonetheless, I must write this blog.

    I came into this nomination season hoping that either Sarah Palin would run (based on her ability to bridge gaps because of her strong stand against crony capitalism, and her strong across the board conservative stands with solid foreign policy views) or we would get someone at least almost as good as her.

    I truly thought I had that person, and in some ways we do have that person running. Her name is Michelle Bachmann, and as of now she is still running for President of the United States. However, she allowed herself to get caught in infighting with Pawlenty before he exited, and made a huge deal out of an encounter that could not and was not vetted about an issue that while I agree with her on, is not going to do her any favors. It did not, and when you combine that with her attacks on Herman Cain and others ideas that were conservative ideas she lost every bit of traction she ever had and honestly has the worst run campaign to this date that I have ever witnessed in person.

    So, she kinda removed herself from contention, and placed doubts that she would ever be able to look America in the eye and create a competent enough campaign to take advantage of a clearly weakened Barack Obama.

    So, after always having a good opinion of Herman Cain I turned to him to see if he could carry my vote to the primary. The first thing that stung, was that his idea was a watered down “transition” to the tax plan I am for at least a similar plan to the Fair Tax. Don’t get me wrong, he is still for the fair tax, but 9-9-9 to me opens up a huge window of opportunity of Cain ended up being a one term president if he were even able to get it passed (which I doubt). That window is an opportunity to reset the income tax structure back to the levels they are now and leaving the sales tax portion as an added VAT tax that democrats across the globe love. Strike 1.

    I put that behind me..saying that they would put language in the law that made that a chore for democrats or it would have some sort of timetable to transition to the fairtax after repealing the 16th amendment in the 9-9-9 law.

    Ok, then after a few good days I see that he went on Piers Morgan..I knew that wasn’t going to go well. He gets to the Abortion question that invariably he was going to get in this venue. I know that Herman Cain personally is avidly against abortion, so when I hear out of his mouth “its a family decision that the government should not involve themselves in” I go..wait..what? What on earth was that? The next day he gives an explanation that he was talking about that the president is not the one that makes that decision..and that he is 100% pro-life period. With this I went on his facebook and asked a serious, albeit harsh worded question I’m sure, about how his 100% pro-life view can use decidedly pro-choice language in an interview anywhere, much less on a very liberal show on a liberal network. How if he believes as he says in life at conception that you could say that ending that life (murder) could be a family decision that government has no right to involve themselves in? I then get promptly blocked from posting on their facebook page (at this time as close to a Cain supporter as I ever was). That confused, and that really was disappointing at that point. Strike 2.

    Then we hear about these women. Coming out multiples saying that he sexually harassed them. I have no clue if he did, it sure doesn’t seem like there is anything to the allegations from here, but his reaction was absolutely reactionary. Not something that a good campaign would have done. Get in front of the story, explain the allegation and how it was handled. Identify what settlements there were and why they were settled by whom. As frustrating as that was, I did not count it a strike against him because it seriously looked like the media was trying to just take him out with it.

    Then, I see the interview where he goes into federal unions and bargaining rights. And he sounds like he is saying that he is for them being able to do so. He creates this “if its not hurting the taxpayers” out for himself, but even so this is not the view of a conservative. Then I come to remember the reason I wasn’t so keen to vote for him in the beginning. I remember the hesitancy he gave to auditing the fed, for instance. It started stringing together doubt on numerous fronts that when I put it all together I get a candidate that does not seem to articulate a position that is more conservative then Mitt Romney.

    Is he more liberal then Mitt Romney? I do not believe so, but it has erased all of the little trust I had of his running a respectable competent campaign and his conservative core came into question. Without significant, almost miraculous recovery from this I cannot see myself voting for him in the primary.

    If you think I’ve erred somewhere and have something to prove me wrong, please do so. The next best candidates I could go to are currently irrelevent, or in the past have told me I’m a heartless racist. So if you can help Mr. Cain, please chime in.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ricardo-Galvan/100001729378103 Ricardo Galvan

      The national sales tax is not a VAT, since a VAT is taxed from manufacturing, to distribution and all the way to retail. The sales tax would only be on retail. The idea of the 999 plan is that, number one, it’s easier to pass and quicker than getting the 16th amendment abolished right away. Two, the economic boom that will come from it will be suffecient evidence and enough of a game changer to abolish the 16th amendment with a plurality of support.

      The facebook thing is quite silly. That facebook page is spammed by trolls about once or twice every few minutes. Most of them aren’t even real people, but fake accounts where they just ask stupid questions, but don’t accept any answers. Pure disruption. Most of them aren’t even banned as there are just so many. Maybe you got unlucky.

      Third, Cain is not pro-union, and I believe part of the Opportunity zones will require Right-to-work laws for an area to qualify to be under the 909.

      • http://www.facebook.com/steamboat2302 Joshua Saunders

        Regardless, If there is no abolition of 16th ammendment nothing stops them from raising corp and income taxes later. I have video of him saying pro-union things its either suspect, or he is ineffectual at communicating what he believes. I can’t support either.

  • http://www.facebook.com/rightstuffnovelties Right Stuff

    I’ve never witnessed so many conservatives – Tea Party patriots or Republicans – attack one of our own. I’m not talking about a RINO, but an actual conservative in Herman Cain. Sure, he has made mistakes, but I can show you a laundry list of flip flops, gaffes, and/or poor choices by EVERY candidate. With our party currently losing 75% of the minority vote, leaders like Cain, Allen West & Marco Rubio stand the best chance of bridging the gap of this oncoming demographic tidal wave and keeping conservatism from becoming a fringe element. If someone is not your personal preference, so be it, but maliciously spreading propaganda from politico and the MSM is just ridiculous. So not only do we eat our own but now we’re their puppets? Obama and Romney must be looking better all the time according to the behavior of some in here.

    We all cried foul when the media systematically destroyed Sarah Palin; and she made a number of gaffes…some seemingly quite silly or elementary. Regardless, we rallied around her because we believed in her overall potential, her philosophy, not because she was un- or misinformed about several issues. Yet a majority of people in here, myself included, were ready to make her president.

    We are damaging many of our candidates to the point of no return…leaders who may not win the nomination, but could be ambassadors for our cause in the future. Some will not even be viable VP candidates after we get done with them. We’re losing our minds, and perhaps a whole lot more, in this race for the nomination.

    • cyclorider007

      Right Stuff,

      Some “conservatives” are easily persuaded by the liberal media and will attack whoever the liberal media attacks. When the liberal media was attacking Sarah Palin, these same “conservatives” were attacking her as well.

      Such “conservatives” are more idiot than conservative.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_IMYEB4QK6KS57IJJPRYJY4XBN4 TT

    Yes, he Cain. Maybe his campaign manager told him to do the interview. Please Mr. Cain, get rid of Block.

  • bobemakk

    Just because Cain doesn’t know much about foreign policy doesn’t mean he is a bad candidate. And the sexual harassment accusations are bull. What does Obama know as an inexperienced Senator and community organizer? Obama is learning while on the job and still needs teleprompters to speak. I am sick of his monotonous campaign mode since he was elected.

    Look at what he has done to US…all the stimulus money he spent that did nothing, the stock market is still floundering, unemployment is still over 9% (but if calculated correctly it is much higher), and the list goes on and on. He is ruining US and the politically uneducated voters need to know the truth. We must get the message to them, they listen to the lamestream media Obama supporters and are brainwashed. God Help US!

  • http://www.hermancain.com Vote AmeriCain For A Change

    Don’t like Cain? Then who are you going to vote for? Romney is not a legitimate choice for he is inconsistent on nearly every issue. Newt has more baggage than a Samsonite dealer and is a big government Republican. Ron Paul’s foreign policy is even more dangerous than Obama’s. The rest of the field is not getting any traction. So, who are you going to vote for?

    • Anonymous

      Romney has been inconsistent over the course of several elections. As has Newt. But Cain seems to be inconsistent over a matter of minutes. As much as I like him, I am totally exasperated with him.

    • Anonymous

      Romney has been inconsistent over the course of several elections. As has Newt. But Cain seems to be inconsistent over a matter of minutes. As much as I like him, I am totally exasperated with him.

  • Anonymous

    Maybe serial-excuser, thin-skinned, Know-Nothing Cain will bring down both Rush Limbaugh and the GOP, although the GOP deserves better than this embarrassment.

    No excuse for “twirling-in-my-head” Cain, and he did NOT finally get the answer on Libya correct.

    The GOP needs my tax-payer vote in 2012, but if you nominate Cain (or Romney or Paul), I shall write-in retired Rear Admiral Mike Mullen. HE knows the answers, and is a leader.

    • cyclorider007

      I’m going to call you a liar, USNK2, and say you definitely missed the entire interview, because after the pause, Cain did answer the Libya question correctly.

      I just saw the entire Libya video and after the 10 second pause Mr. Cain gave an excellent well-reasoned answer. The man is informed. No doubt about it. I can’t believe people are making a big issue of a pause. It wasn’t a debate. It was an informal, casual interview with shoddy camerawork. I actually thought he did quite well. He only paused for those 10 seconds because the reporter asked him a loaded question if he “agreed with Obama on Libya” which, to Mr. Cain, didn’t have a simple “yes” or “no” answer because there are areas where he agreed and disagreed with Obama’s handling of the Libya situation. He paused, asked the reporter to be more specific, then gave an excellent well-reasoned answer on where he differed with Obama and why. Unlike Obama, Mr. Cain said he would need to know who the opposition is and what they stand for before supporting them with millions of US dollars. It was a great answer and I believe Mr. Cain would be a great foreign policy President along the lines of Ronald Reagan.

      • Anonymous

        cyclorider007: hmmm, I watched Mr. Cain’s entire 5+ minute Libya segment three times because it is so funny.
        The two critical issues about what Obama did on Libya are 1) when, where, and why the United Nations doctrine of “Responsibility to Protect” should authorize unilateral or multi-lateral military intervention to protect the lives of civilians, and 2) Should the USA support our NATO Treaty alliance allies when they lead, as was the case with Libya when France and the UK asked for US support, or should the USA always have to be in the lead on all NATO military action?

        But, as Mr. Cain said today “America wants a leader, not a reader”.
        That was after Mr. Cain cancelled his previously scheduled interview with the NH Union-Leader editorial board this morning because 1) no video, and 2) no more than 20 minutes.
        Romney, Santorum, and Perry have all had videotaped interviews, exceeding sixty minutes, of a wide range of thoughtful questions with the editorial board of the New Hampshire Union-Leader.

        Read the U.S. Constitution. The three main responsibilities of the President are 1) Commander in Chief of the armed forces, 2) conduct of foreign relations, and 3) submit nominations for Senate confirmation for the Judiciary and Executive branch, including all diplomats – the people who represent the USA in every foreign country where we have diplomatic relations.

  • Anonymous

    I gotta stand with Rush on this one.

  • cyclorider007

    This USA Today article set the record straight about the stagnant Massachusetts economy under Governor Romney’s strict environmental policies, state-run healthcare mandate and closing of loopholes that raised business taxes by $300 million.

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/2008-02-04-859786718_x.htm

    Today we don’t hear Mitt getting specific about his tenure as Massachusetts Governor, lest his Left-wing policies be exposed to Republican voters.

    Massachusetts ranked 47th in the nation in job creation under Mitt Romney. The man is no job creator. As Governor, he was more interested in combating global warming and raising taxes on businesses to fund RomneyCare.

    “Mr. Romney joined activists outside an aging, coal-fired plant in 2003 to show his commitment to the emissions caps. “I will not create jobs or hold jobs that kill people, and that plant, that plant kills people,” he said.

    On Dec. 7, 2005, the Romney administration unveiled the final orders. “These carbon emission limits will provide real and immediate progress in the battle to improve our environment,” then-Gov. Romney said in a press release touting Massachusetts as “the first and only state to set CO2 emissions limits on power plants.”

    “… Mr. Romney made it clear he believed in human-caused global warming and wanted a policy response.”

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203388804576613293746516756.html

    Is Mitt Romney the most Liberal Republican in the history of the party?

    Here’s what Mitt Romney supported as Governor of Massachusetts:

    1. Pro-abortion with taxpayer funding (added it to RomneyCare).

    2. Pro-government mandated healthcare.

    3. Pro-government mandates in general.

    4. Pro-gay marriage with full state sponsorship (was first Governor to install it).

    5. Pro-transgendered education in public schools (promoted by Governor Romney’s administration).

    6. Pro-global warming caused by human activity.

    7. Pro-environmental regulations to combat global warming (imposed massive regulations in Massachusetts; has same environmental policy team as Obama).

    8. Pro-taxes on businesses (closed loopholes, then raised business taxes by $300 million as Governor of Massachusetts).

    9. Pro-amnesty for illegal immigrants.

    10. Anti-second amendment.

    NOT a conservative.

    Indeed, Mitt’s track record is to the Left of most Democrats.

    Does this disqualify Mitt?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_IZ3RPI5YN63HVMQGLQALFNGZ5Q Mark C

    Fairtax is a fucking goofy fraud. Yes, it sounds great, if you are a fucking idiot and don’t read the fine print.

    Here, go read the fucking fine print. http://fairtaxgoofy.blogspot.com/