What in the heck are the Four Blood Moons and should I even care?

I’ve only started hearing about this ‘four blood moons’ thing recently and I had no idea what it was. I mean, if you are familiar with scripture, you know that the Bible speaks of a day when the moon will turn to blood, but that happens only once, not four times.

In any event, there’s a new book out with some newfangled theory on the scripture blood moon and, well, it’s crap. But this video that explains why it’s crap is quite interesting. And if you’re wondering, I got it from Joel Richardson’s site so I’m pretty sure it’s trustworthy.


Consider this an open thread.

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  • 12grace

    Time will tell which theory is correct. My vote is on Hagee.

    • Steve Angell

      Not mine. Fact is the sky did go dark. Do not remember the exact date perhaps 1805 or so in the US. This brought about the revivals that occurred in the years after this. Unfortunately I lost this bookmark.

      Point is even if it is a warning it is a weak one. Far more significant things are supposed to occur. We see them occurring. Most religious Christians realize something big is approaching. The blood moons are not helpful in this.

      Look at how wicked the world is with gay marriage even. That is a much bigger sign. All the reports of bestiality and all manner of evil. America which had been a beacon of righteousness now nearly as evil as any nation on earth.

      We are in the Last Days but the blood moons are meaningless most likely. Expulsion of Jews from Spain. Really? That makes 2 out of 5 had a meaning possibly.

      In reality I believe Satan is responsible for the creation of Israel. The history really points to heavy involvement by the Rothchilds in it’s creation. No way I see the Rothchilds as good. The six day war proved Israel was smart in the planes they flew and military tactics. Not at all sure that was a miracle.

      • DarkHorse74

        Wow I have to completely disagree with your last statement. Satan is behind Israel? Why does everyone hate it then? If Satan is behind it then the world should love it. Moreover if God didn’t want Israel to exist, it wouldn’t. Some Rothschild support Israel, there Jewish after all, but not all of them. By rights Israel shouldn’t exist and neither the Jewish people, I would call that a miracle.

        • Steve Angell

          Britain is highly controlled by the Banks. Britain created Israel there is no question about that.

          What does it profit Satan. His Islamic Church now has a cause to unite them around. Not only them but the entire earth. Israel is more responsible for the current worldwide conflicts than anything else. The Rothchilds profit heavily by wars. The current feeling is they are about to start World War 3. With the new Ottoman Empire being at the center of it. Look at the Muslim world. It is bigger than the height of the Ottoman Empire just not organized but that could happen very quickly.

          There is no grand conspiracy not earthly. Just Satan in control of those who sold their souls to him.

          I should add. God uses evil men all the time to destroy other evil men. Not saying that God did not see in advance Satan doing this. No doubt he did all scripture foretells it. Israel is throughout the world. The Ten Tribes were scattered and most Americans are most likely of the Ten Tribes.

          • DarkHorse74

            Britain had a hand in creating most of the middle-east nation states today. But they pretty much abandoned Palestine once the British Mandate expired. There is a whole lot of conspiracy theory and speculation in your narrative.

            I have a different take on things. Prophecy teaches that:
            1)The Jews would be scattered from one end of the earth to the other (Due 28:64-65)
            2)They would be persecuted (Deu 28:64-65)
            3)The land would become desolate (Deu 29:21-24)
            4)The Jews would be regathered and become a nation again in one day (Eze 11:17, Isa 66:8)
            5)The land would flourish once again (Eze 36:35)
            6)The Hebrew language would be revived (Zep 3:9)
            7)They would be besieged with enemies (Ezekiel 38-39, Isaiah 17, Psalm 83, Zechariah 12, 14)
            8)They would survive against all odds (Amos 9:15)

            All these things have happened. So how is Israel responsible for the current worldwide conflict?

            • Steve Angell

              Would agree with all of that. Satan will lose in the end.

              What you should be most afraid of is Islam. Islam is Satans religion purely of Satan. Baal in the Bible. It is against God in every way. Within 10 years Europe will be majority Muslim. Europe is anti Israel pro Islam. Now America is also pro Islam. But Islam has nukes already. Islam hates all Islam as well they fight against each other all the time. But they do unite against common enemies.

              Saudi Arabia is so rich it is almost beyond comprehension. All that oil they sell. So much money in these countries. All for the taking. All the world wants it. Such a world war will make the Rothchilds even richer.

              Satan hates America the most. Thus take out America is his plan. God I believe though will save America but keep America out of this conflict. But it must play out to fulfill scripture about the destruction of these countries.

              I feel America is the New Jerusalem. That God will save it because of all the righteous people in America. He will destroy the wicked in America though of course so repent now. Remember His Temple is 1,500 miles cubed. Far too big for Israel.

              • DarkHorse74

                I agree with you on Islam. It is a threat and a tool used by Satan. I also agree there are forces working to destroy America. And once America is out of the way it paves the way for the final world empire and the Anti-Christ.

                I disagree America will become the New Jerusalem. This sounds like replacement theology. New Jerusalem is big, but who says it has to fit within the current boundaries of Israel?

                • Steve Angell

                  Except the darkness was only in America. America has been unique among Nations. So much good came out of America.

                  The Pilgrims came here for liberty and used the Geneva Bible which taught clearly against Tyrants (Kings) why the KJV came about in the first place.

                  Our country was born in the Churches. Why? Why so much here and no where else on earth? Why does America disappear from prophesy?

                  I just do not believe God would allow the destruction of America just prior to his coming.

                • sno_warrior

                  The New Jerusalem:
                  At the third coming of Christ, [after the 1000 years in heaven (Rev. 20:2,4-6)], when His feet touch the Mount of Olives and the Mount split in two and forming a great valley (Zach. 14:4). – this is where the foundations of the New Jerusalem will touch down. It is a city that is approx 1500 miles in circumference – 350 miles in each direction (Rev. 21:16). It’s a pretty big City and it will be the Home of God Himself (Rev. 21:3), as well as our Saviour. And it will be our city home where we come to worship the Lord God and Jesus Christ each Sabbath for all eternity (Isaiah 66:23).

  • DarkHorse74

    Maybe it means something, maybe it doesn’t. One thing to note, significant events linked to the blood moons didn’t neceassily happen on that exact day. The Jewish eviction from Spain was in March-July 1492 and the tetrad didn’t begin until 1493. The U.N. decree for Israel was in 1947. Israel became a nation in 1948 and the tetrad wasn’t until 1949-1950. The six day war was a bit different, the tetrad began at passover 1967 and the war didn’t start until June.

  • Good stuff. Very interesting. Had not seen this explanation. Glad I watched and listened to it.

    As Paul Harvey so often and eloquently said, “And now you know the rest of the story.”

    • Conservative_Hippie

      Paul Harvey was, and is, a beloved saint!

  • Jasper Silvis

    Wow, I should read Revelations again. The only time I heard about a blood moon was in the recent Hansel & Gretel: Witch Hunters movie. Graphic violence but entertaining.

    • imatellau

      no “s”…

  • sjmom

    Here’s what I know. My Jesus is returning soon, Israel in the crosshairs of prophecy and the Fool in Chief just put us in greater danger by making a deal with Iran.

    • Conservative_Hippie


    • Steve Angell

      Yes this is what is important.

  • ArchAng3l

    Hey …I have a Bible code, that will make you super rich, to sell you…just email me with your credit card info

    • Conservative_Hippie

      LOL, I’m not a big numerologist either!

  • imatellau

    Does it really matter? whether we pass in our sleep or called to him in the rapture? Walk the walk and talk the talk… Promises will be fulfilled!!!
    Will HE say HE knows you?

    • Conservative_Hippie

      Amen! Well said!

  • JohnCraven

    About 5 years ago, the documentary The Star of Bethelehem, produced by Rick Larson, was put out and it is a great look back at what exactly was happening in the sky at the time of Jesus’ birth, at the time of the arrival of the Three Wise Men from the East, and at the time of Jesus’ Crucifixion using modern computer programs which astronomers use to determine where in the heavens the stars and the planets will appear at any given moment in history and from any location on the planet.

    It talks about a “blood moon” too.
    It is a fantastic look at the universe at the time of Jesus’ appearance here on earth.
    John Craven
    New Orleans

    • Conservative_Hippie

      Awesome video! Thanks for sharing John!

      • JohnCraven

        Ditto! Conservative_Hippie! Ditto!
        It really is awesome just to see how God sent us a beautiful message in the heavens above which bears out what the Scriptures say “the Word was made flesh and dwelt amongst us!”
        I hope more and more people see it and share it with others.
        John Craven
        New Orleans

        • Conservative_Hippie

          Most every theologian I know claims that Jesus could not have been born on 12/25. I found his argument quite interesting!

          • JohnCraven

            Conservative_Hippie, from what I heard him say in the video, he said that Jesus was born at some point before December 25 but that the convergence of Jupiter and Venus coincided on the day that the Magi arrived in Bethlehem and that date was December 25 according to the timeline of his astronomical computer program.

            It seems that there were two convergences: the first was with Jupiter – the King planet – and Regulus – the King star – in the constellation Leo – Leo is the symbol of the lion and also the symbol of the tribe of Judah to which Jesus was born – and the second convergence was between Jupiter and Venus and that it was this convergence which he believes was the star of Bethlehem which led the Magi forward.

            This second convergence was followed on the same date by the rising of the constellation Virgo – the Virgin – followed on the same date by the rising of the new moon – symbolic of a life just begun. and this was followed by the sun overwhelming Virgo and the new moon – “clothed with the sun”.

            The first convergence with Jupiter and Regulus had Jupiter putting three halos around Leo and he interpreted that as the sign in the heavens that the Lord of the universe was conceived in the tribe of Judah or was about to be conceived when Mary gave her fiat. This first convergence I think he said was about 9 months before the second convergence.

            Then he goes forward and on the date he gives for Christ’s Crucifixion he shows how once again the constellation Virgo rises with the moon at her feet followed by the sun – “clothed with the sun” – but this time it is a blood moon – a full moon in eclipse – symbolic of a life fully lived.

            I think the date he gives for the 1st and 2nd convergences was 4 B.C. because he says Herod died in 1 B.C. which was a year after Joseph took Jesus and Mary in to Egypt and Herod had all 1st born males slaughtered in Bethlehem under the age of 2 years old so that would mean that Jesus was about 3 years old at the time of Herod’s death and roughly 37 years old when He was crucified but He was crucified in 33 B.C. in the Jubilee Year at the start of Passover.

            I think it is all interesting.

            John Craven
            New Orleans

            • Conservative_Hippie

              Yes, agreed, it is all very interesting!

    • imatellau

      shared with the family at Christmas few years back, tears all around!

      • JohnCraven

        imatellau, I first saw this video just a couple of weeks ago when EWTN played it, I think maybe the day after Christmas and I was simply in awe at how really beautiful and profound it was – how it brought the Scriptures to life in a way that brings “tears all around” especially at the end when he talks about the Blood Moon on the day Christ died being a full moon at the feet of the Virgin – the constellation Virgo – and a sign of a “life fully lived” as the new moon at the feet of the Virgin – the constellation Virgo – was the sign of a life just begun when God showed the Wise Men where the Christ child was born.

        There is so much in this movie to ponder and wonder upon and compare with the Scriptures. God wrote a message to us in the stars at the dawn of time and he is still talking to us if we have eyes to see and ears to hear.

        John Craven
        New Orleans

        • imatellau


  • GodspeedJPS

    . . . ehhhhh . . . I would be slow to automatically “poo-poo” John Hagee.

  • GodspeedJPS

    “And if you’re wondering, I got it from Joel Richardson’s site so I’m pretty sure it’s trustworthy.”

    I must admit, the first thing that came to me was, “what makes Joel Richardson” the default trustworthy source? I must be showing my ignorance. Forgive me. Funny/interesting; the differences in opinions and perceived trusted sources.

    • Conservative_Hippie

      Yeah, I’ve never heard of the Joel Richardson guy. I’ll need to check him out. But, agreed, I would hesitate to put my trust in man rather than the Bible!

      • DarkHorse74

        I don’t know much about him either other than he believes in an Islamic AC and I always get him confused with Joel Rosenberg. 😀

  • Conservative_Hippie

    I almost fell for this theory myself. It is compelling. I know Hagee is a fan, but the only problem is it’s not entirely Biblical.

    • DarkHorse74

      True, It’s not biblical per say but I think it’s the pattern of events in conjunction with the blood moons that make it compelling. It could all be coincidence, I don’t know. But there will be signs in the heavens, so that’s reason enough for me to keep watching.

      • Conservative_Hippie

        I agree, it definitely is a compelling theory.

  • maynardb50

    RS. I think it is wrong for you to characterize a Christian persons belief as Crap. It is his opinion. Take it as his opinion and not be so quick to begin calling profane names to the writing. Pastor Hagee is a good man. He is not calling for people to head for the hills or drink poison Kool-Aid.. But, if his “opinion” brings people to think of the coming of Jesus, what is wrong with that?

    • Conservative_Hippie

      Good point friend!

  • badbadlibs
  • wales777

    Four blood moons is not a crap theory. What’s crap is “specific and wrong” interpretation of it. It’s actually from a the Torah and corroborated in the new testament. It’s about the Jewish festivals and the Jewish calendar. Once the four consecutive festivals/Biblical feasts with the red/blood moon occur, this sets off the rest of the prophesy… There is plenty of research but make sure you go through the Hebrew scholarship and not just Christian scholarship.

    • “the rest of the prophecy” began long before the birth of Jesus.

      • wales777

        I think I made that clear by suggesting the Torah and the Feasts of the Lord…

  • Conservator1

    I don’t want to debate theology. But if Pastor Hagee is a good man preaching his opinions on the ‘End Times,’ why isn’t Chris White afforded the same benefit on Biblical prophecy when he debunks the Four Blood Moons?

    “Chris is a filmmaker and host of several online radio programs on various subjects. He also the director of the internet radio station called The Revelations Radio Network – http://bibleprophecytalk.com/about/.

    His videos have been viewed millions of times over the internet, and he continues to produce documentaries and short videos for educational purposes. He also produces a local television program about Christian apologetics.

    He has lectured on various subjects including: the occult, The New Age, biblical prophecy, how to refute false teaching from a biblical perspective, 2012 doomsday theories, and more recently, the ancient astronaut theory.

    His Christianity 101 DVDs have been sent to thousands of people all over the world free of charge. He has been a missionary to Africa and spoken at several pastors conferences there.”

    • maynardb50

      I think it is good that promote Chris White. I’ll check him out. I never heard of him actually. There are so many good ministers out there. Too numerous to count. Even in ones hometown of few people there will be a minister to look up to for guidance. But, I do not refer to their opinion as Crap.

      • Conservator1

        Agreed; as a Catholic, I never learned anything about Biblical prophecy and I attended grade, high and college at Catholic institutions.

        Yet long before I attended college, I was flipping the stations and I saw this long-haired hippy looking guy talking about prophecy; it was Hal Lindsey. That night I bought a copy of the “The Late, Great Planet Earth” and read it
        cover-to-cover Since then, I followed and read as much as I could on Biblical prophecy – from people like John Hagee, Jack Van Impe, Benny Hinn and so many more.

  • Myptofvu

    Four Blood Moons, big deal….I’ve got four Enemas and that’s a Royal Flush.

    • CalCoolidge

      Uh, too much information.

  • Sentinel

    My faith is based on God’s Word and that is the only authority in my life. While all of this is interesting, if it’s not Biblical, then I don’t give it much credence. God didn’t make His Word vague or hard to understand… in fact, it is timeless and plain. Couple that with God’s Holy Spirit who helps those who are covered by Jesus’ blood to properly discern His Word and I feel like I’m on solid ground here. I don’t put my faith or understanding in mankind…
    This in no way passes judgment on any of this or other people’s beliefs. We are ALL accountable for what we believe or don’t believe. We will ALL stand before God and answer for our lives – individually. So, my small opinion has no bearing on other people’s standing or fate.

    • jrt67

      The bible is still a version written by man. You need to have your own faith with your own relationship with God. This is what I do every day. All this speculation might work for some but God will let you know the truth when you get to know him better.

  • keninil

    I resent him dissing the “lucky jersey” theory, it seems to work for someone every year !!

  • Insert_Cool_Username

    I’m probably about to invite a huge amount of woe my way by doing this, but:

    “But concerning that day or that hour, no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.” Mark 13:32

    I’m sorry guys, but if our Lord Himself tells us that only the Father knows when the Last Day is, don’t you think all of our speculations are in vain?

    • cummingsamerica

      I’ll second that.

      Could be the crazies use abnormal occurrences to freak out the masses.

      • Insert_Cool_Username

        I’m sure that’s not all of it, but it certainly is a piece of the puzzle. I notice that many of the groups that hold to this sort of eschatology also employ a lot of the methods espoused by revivalist preacher Charles Finney, who basically taught that man needed to be emotionally manipulated into the faith to begin with. So maybe a lot of this has to do with unfortunate leftovers from his table.

    • DarkHorse74

      To my understanding the blood moons do not indicate when the second coming will be. Mark Blitz just made an observation that significant events have occurred in Jewish history when these blood moons occur. See my post below. I am not dogmatic about it, but I think it’s worth considering.

      • Insert_Cool_Username

        I did pick up on that from the video. However, considering that source of all this is Joel Richardson, making the leap from this video into a greater discourse on eschatology isn’t entirely unwarranted. Richardson isn’t frequented for his knowledge on dogma, nor for his solid preaching of the Gospel. His main claim to fame is his teaching in the field of premilennial dispensationalism. As such, while this particular video itself treats that issue only in brevity, the main reason for his entire ministry is his eschatology.

        • LoveJesus

          One, Joel Richardson is actually a really good preacher. He’s not polished, but his theology is solid. I heard him in Virginia a couple months ago. Two, this video was not made by Joel Richardson. He just reposted it from another guy’s site named Chris White.

          • Insert_Cool_Username

            I’ll answer the second point first. I suppose my wording in the previous post was unclear and made it sound as if I was attributing the video to Richardson himself. If I gave that impression I apologize for my lack of clarity. I meant to say that the source Scoop lists as where he found the video is Richardson’s site. And since Scoop linked to it, I imagine others will go there.

            As to Richardson’s preaching: if you know of a sermon he’s done that you think I should watch, feel free to link me to it. I’ll admit to having very little experience with him, so if you link to something that disproves my current stance, I’ll gladly recant. But from what experience I do have, he’s way too hung up on eschatology, and has a dreadful tendency to try and combine Law and Gospel into one amorphous entity (which in my experience makes both lose their power).

            Again, I might just not have enough of a sample selection. If that’s the case, I’d be glad to be proven wrong. However, from where I stand now, I just can’t agree with you.

            • LoveJesus

              When I saw him he was totally evangelical. He actually preached a message about Isaac and Ishmael that was one of the best gospel messages I’ve heard in a long time. Most of the stuff I found on Youtube were TV interviews. But this interview was really good preaching to Iranians on TV: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kUJdyp9iRI#t=13

              • Insert_Cool_Username

                I’ll start with the Good:

                1. He stayed out the eschatology. Good move, Joel. Nobody cares what Jesus will do if they don’t know what He has and is doing.

                2. He talked about God’s love. Always a good place to start.

                However, the Bad:

                1. The Gospel is not, “Yahweh is a better father than Allah.” In fact, I’ll bet any Muslim who was listening tuned Joel out right then and there. All they would have to do is note that, in the Quran, Allah only promises to be the suzerain of the Muslims, not their father.

                2. He mentions the “freedom” he has in Christ, but neither explains what that freedom is, nor how it was purchased. While the Gospel is not, “Yahweh is a better father than Allah,” the Gospel is, “Jesus Christ, true God, was incarnate as a man, lived a sinless life, and was crucified and killed as an atoning sacrifice for the sins of the world. And He rose from the dead so that all who he called would share in a portion of the life that He won by His righteousness.” Do you think any Muslims watching this walked away hearing that?

                3. His trinitarianism is kind of wonky. I don’t doubt that he is an orthodox trinitarian Christian, but when he talks of the Father “lowering Himself” he makes the mistake of applying language bestowed on the Son to the Father. At worst, it sounds like Modalism (a heresy stating that God is not three distinct Persons, but rather one Person who changes into three different forms). At best, it sounds like patripassianism (a heresy stating that the Father suffered on the cross). You might think I’m splitting hairs, but considering that the Trinity is one of (if not THE) chief doctrine of the Christian faith, it would behoove us to get it right.

                The Ugly:

                1. Bread, steak, cake? C’mon Joel, now I’m hungry…

                • LoveJesus

                  I’ve never done live TV, but I thought he did a great job. You can pick apart anyone if that is your objective. There are two other portions of the video too.

                • Insert_Cool_Username

                  I don’t know. Maybe you’re right and I’m just nitpicking. I’m willing to give the benefit of the doubt to Richardson and say that maybe my prejudices are just founded on an incomplete sampling. Then again, maybe I’m spoiled because the homiletic standard imputed to me by my church basically amounts to “If Jesus Christ crucified for your sins is mentioned any less than 1,000 times, then it wasn’t a real sermon.”

                  But Joel’s an Evangelical and I’m a Lutheran, so you’re probably right that anything you put of his in front of me I’d find something to complain about. I can’t help it, it’s my upbringing. We Lutherans (at least those of us who still believe in what Lutheranism has taught, unlike those ELCA guys who will do any and everything under the sun with the exception of preaching what the Bible teaches) may seem like we’re only a slight breeze away from crossing the Tiber, but we’re picky about our Gospel, damn it! We were calling ourselves evangelical and facing down the Pope when you guys were still in diapers!

                  Only slightly joking.

    • Steve Angell

      You really should read the rest of that. It goes on to explain that the believers will know the Season. Remember the virgins showed up for the marriage. Half did not bring oil. But they knew more or less when to show up just not the hour (or day). They showed up and he came early the next morning. So they knew within a period of hours.

      • Insert_Cool_Username

        The wise Virgins were prepared for him to return at any day, they didn’t search the skies to try and divine astrological symbols or discern the event around them. Instead, unlike the foolish Virgins, they made sure that they had enough oil for their lamps so that when the procession announced the arrival of the bridegroom, they were ready to meet him. Note that the bridegroom was announced, and our Lord “…will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God.” (1 Thessalonians 4:16)

        The point of the parable is very clear: be ready, because it could be any time now. The “season” you speak of is, as a matter of fact, every single second from the Ascension until the Second Advent. It could be today, tomorrow, next week, or a thousand years from now. Jesus has given us our charge for this world. We are to make disciples, Baptize, teach, confess, Commune, and hold to His words. Let’s focus on that, and leave the Second Coming to Christ.

        • Steve Angell

          Mat 25:5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.

          6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

          Sure sounds to me like they knew approximately the day but not the hour.

          I seriously doubt that was the type of season. This strongly indicated they knew of his coming just not the exact day and hour. Of course that would mean that feast days should still be observed thus the season. Most likely why this is rejected. the feast days were gone within three centuries and replaced with Baal holidays, renamed after figures in the Trinity, and the Baal Sabbath on Sunday which was always Baal Sun day. As opposed to the Son of Sabbath. The doctrine of the Trinity it’s self is heavily from Baal as well and in no way scripture. It is the Law of God not Moses. God gave it to Moses, to write down as it was evidently lost in Egypt, but it was practiced since Adam. God then came to earth as Jesus. He taught his Law. Calling it the Law of Moses is pure evil.

          I seriously suggest you explore how this was all changed back around 120-450 AD.

          • Insert_Cool_Username

            “This strongly indicated they knew of his coming just not the exact day and hour.” Isn’t that exactly what I just said?

            “Of course that would mean that feast days should still be observed thus the season.” I have no idea how you pulled that from the parable of the Ten Virgins.

            “Satan did away with the feast days within three centuries and replaced them with Satanic holidays and the Satanic Sabbath on Sunday which was always Satans Sun day. As opposed to the Son of Sabbath.” Reputable documents of early Christian practice indicate that the day of corporate worship for Christians (Jewish and non-Jewish) was the first day of the week. All this went on for centuries before Sol Invictus was establish in the 4th century. Sunday wasn’t even called Sunday until the second millennium. To this day, the Greeks still call the first day Kyriake (κυριακε), meaning “the Lord’s Day.” Sunday worship was the standard practice because it was the day of Christ’s Resurrection, and event which had far more significance to them than the shadow prefigured in the Old Testament. The new liturgical cycle was established to center the church year around the life and deeds of Christ. They did this because they, unlike many today who try to insinuate otherwise, understood that Christianity was not Judaism, and that they had a better covenant that the one the Rabbinic Jews were clinging to. So the Christians distanced themselves from the false religion of the Jews.

            “I seriously suggest you explore how this was all changed back around 120-450 AD” And I recommend you read a book, written by actual scholars who are trying to honestly deal with the facts rather than decide, sans actual evidence, all Christian practice is veneered paganism. I’d also suggest actually reading the works of the Church Father’s themselves, and to cease imbibing the cuckoo-banana-juice of Alexander Hislop and those who follow in his anti-historical, anti-scholarly, sophomoric footsteps.

            • Steve Angell

              When Mary came to the Tomb early on Sunday morning it was already empty. If he spent 72 hours in that tomb very likely he resurrected at the very end of the Sabbath just prior to 6 PM Saturday evening.

              There are no reputable sources on Sun Day being the Sabbath when Jesus lived or his Apostles. My word the name itself clearly says Sun Day. Then Moon Day and so on through the list of Gods ending at Saturn Day. Josephus is clear the Sabbath was Fri 6 PM till Sat 6 PM. So is every other writing from then. What people do is talk about is the Early Church. Which is long past when the Apostles lived. Most of the Apostles letters were to stop the kind of changes the Early Church adopted. The Early Church was nothing like the first century church. I dare say it was an abomination in the eyes of God.

              I strongly suggest you actually read the Bible and the 66 books in it and leave the rest alone. I avoid the precepts of men as the scriptures teach me. Not that I do not read them. I just recognize those men were nothing special. I will never take the word of a man over the word in the scriptures. If they are different the scriptures win every time. The scriptures are clear Sabbath is on the seventh day of the week. There is no Christmas or Easter in the Scriptures but Christ absolutely observed the Feast Days. I avoid the precepts of man. But I love my Savior and seek to serve him and him only. I do not believe His church to be on this earth. It is in Heaven.

              His Coming was foreshadowed many times in the Old Testament. The Feast of Trumpets though is when He will come most likely.

              “The Feast of Trumpets reflects God’s desire to summon His people to repentance so that He can vindicate them on the day of His judgment.”


              Sounds like something very important to me. Yet not found in Christian Churches. Why?

              • Insert_Cool_Username

                Do you actually read what I type? I specifically said that Sunday was not called Sunday by the Greeks. And that the focus of Kyriake worship was not that it was the Sabbath day of the Old Testament, but that Christ was the new Sabbath HImself.

                The Church Fathers were a wide collection of men ranging from Clement of Rome circa 70AD to later Fathers near the 5th century. Why is it that they couldn’t right then, but somehow you, 1900+ years later, can? Are you a prophet? Do you have a special line with God that we don’t? Or is maybe that you pride won’t let you admit that maybe they knew more about the faith of Jesus and His Apostles than you do?

                For that matter, if you don’t accept any precepts of men, why do you insist that there are only 66 books of the Bible? Why should I not add the Book of Enoch, or the Wisdom of Solomon, or the Epistle of Barnabas, or any of the other Apocryphal or Pseudepigraphal writings? Why should I not add the gnostic gospels? Those books are only there because men said the should be, right? Maybe I should take out Revelation?

                But if you want Scripture so badly, let me give it to you:

                “16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. 17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. 18 Let no onedisqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions,[d] puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind, 19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God.

                20 If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the world, why, as if you were still alive in the world, do you submit to regulations— 21 “Do not handle, Do not taste, Do not touch” 22 (referring to things that all perish as they are used)—according to human precepts and teachings? 23 These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh.” (Colossians 2:16-23)

                But wait, there’s more!

                “And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock[a] I will build my church, and the gates of hell[b] shall not prevail against it.” (Matthew 16:18)

                So Paul says I shouldn’t let you judge me in regards to festivals and Sabbaths. And Jesus said His Church would never disappear. Doesn’t sound like the Bible is on your side. Let me give you another:

                “In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.” (Hebrews 8:13)

                So we’re in a new covenant, and that’s the one I should focus on?

                “His Coming was foreshadowed many times in the Old Testament.” Amen, brother. That’s exactly what the Old Testament was there for. Our Lord said as much Himself: “You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me,” (John 5:39)

                “Sounds like something very important to me. Yet not found in Christian Churches. Why?”

                Probably because you’re looking in legalistic “evangelical” churches that have stolen the Gospel out from under you. They’ve likely taught you that the Church is just some spiritual thing that doesn’t really matter, rather than the bride for whom Christ died (Ephesians 5:25)

                They probably turned your Baptism into a personal proclamation of faith, rather than a washing of regeneration (Titus 3:5), the place where God buried you with Christ so that you could partake in His Resurrection (Romans 6:4, Colossians 2:12), the place where God saved you (1 Peter 3:21), and forgave your sins (Acts 2:38). Thus you can’t look to it for security in the promises of Christ.

                They probably told you the Lord’s Supper was just a symbolic proclamation of faith, and not the Body and Blood of Christ, shed for you for the forgiveness of sins (Matthew 26:26-28, Mark 14:22-24, Luke 22:14-20, 1 Corinthians 11:23-25). Thus you can’t look to it for security in the promises of Christ.

                And now that you can’t look to the things Christ actually gave to you for security, you have to trust in yourself and your own piety. In that, they’ve mangled the Gospel by turning your trust into a matter of how you react, and you’ve convinced yourself that obedience to the Law is how you’ll do that. And so you’ve been stuck thinking that following Old Testament festivals and Saturday worship will help your spirituality, while the churches you dismiss out of hand are preaching Christ and Him crucified.

                Since it seems that no one else has taken it upon themselves to give a truly good dose of both Law and Gospel, let me try my best to do it for you:

                Law: you are a sinner. You are not a sinner because you sin, but you sin because you are a sinner. Like David, you were conceived in sin and brought forth in iniquity (Psalm 51:5). As a son of your father, Adam, your thoughts were only evil from your youth (Genesis 8:21).

                Gospel: Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the very Word of God, became man (John 1:14). He lived a life without sin, but took our sins upon HImself (2 Corinthians 5:21). He was crucified, died, and was buried, but rose on the third day. He ascended into heaven, and reigns and the right hand of the Father Almighty, from thence He will come to judge the living and the dead, Whose Kingdom will have no end. He has made you a part of His bride, the church, and washed you with water and the Word (Ephesians 5:25-26). He has given you the gift of His Body and Blood to be food and drink for the forgiveness of your sins (Matthew 26:26-28). And He will return to bring you through this dying creation (Revelation 22:20)

                This is the Gospel. Doesn’t matter what day you worship, or whether you fast for Yom Kippur or not.

                • Steve Angell

                  Right just do whatever you want. Indulgences will save you. /s
                  No I do NOT accept Clement, No I do not accept the Gnostic gospels. Luther got it right. I guess you think God does not mean what he says. He said rest on the seventh day.
                  To deny that Sunday was for the Sun God. Really. The Greek name matters not. Sun Day was the first day of the week dedicated to the worship of the Sun God before Constantine supposedly converted to Christian. I see it as the day Baal changed it’s worship once more.

                  You rely on the precepts of men holding them superior to Christ and his Apostles. You will not even admit that Christ gave Moses the Laws. Instead you dismiss them as the Law of Moses not giving God the credit God demands.

                  I have not judged you. I am just trying to help you know Jesus fully. Peter taught first those out of covenant (gentiles). He was amazed they were blessed with the power of the Holy Ghost. Peter had to rethink things after that. Thus warned people to not judge those out of the covenant that did not do the feast days and such. He did NOT say now stop doing those days in any way. The Pope recently said “Who am I to judge”. This is all those scriptures were saying. I welcome all to come to know Jesus. When they truly know him they will follow him and keep all of His laws. They will stop sinning if they truly know Jesus.

                  Baptism precedes the New Testament, after all John did baptize Christ by immersion. The Last Supper was NOT done in a church. It was done as dinner for Christ and his Apostles. I believe this was a commandment for every meal from then on.

                  God will call who God will call. I believe in baptism but do not believe that any Church has a divine right to it. It is the mind of the one being baptized that matters not the Priest/Pastor doing the baptism. Jesus understood how wicked the earth would become and warned us we would go throughout the world and not find the truth. Jesus will judge us. All I can do is say I love Jesus and believe his Word as contained in the Bible (yes just those 66 books). Those 66 books have proven their worth over and over and are consistent one with another.

                  The difference between a lump of clay and a living being is the Word. The Word is God and Jesus is the Word.

                  The Word will judge us. The Word will determine what is in our hearts. He will judge us by the Law of the Word. Moses spoke to the very God that put on flesh and became Jesus. It is the Law of Jesus NOT Moses. To claim he did away with his own law is to deny Christ completely. We are bound by the Law of Jesus. He explained his law. He explained that the teachings of men (Talmud and such) were not to be used. He explained he was the last sin offering and we were to eat and drink in remembrance of his sacrifice for us. He called many to teach but warned us there would be a falling away.

                  Mat 16:18 Christ is the rock of course. His church is in Heaven not on earth. He never fails us. He has made sure that his Word has remained on earth. Christ knew full well that no Church in the sense of a physical Church could remain. As Paul said all men sin. But Jesus did know he could make sure his Word survived in the form of scriptures. That he could then personally bestow the Holy Ghost upon those that fully accepted him until his return.

                  The Catholic Church brought so much evil upon the earth that there is no need to point to all of it. I will just say the greatest evil was changing the Word. Those extra books. Jesus loves those who follow him so I do thank the Monks who sort of preserved the scriptures for us. They mostly did a good job. Jesus loves all who love him. He is personal in the way he knows us no matter what church we belong to if we love Jesus he will love us back.

                  My personal belief is many of us will live to see his second coming. He will Judge. I pray I never need judge.

                • Insert_Cool_Username

                  I quoted Scripture itself to you and you still ignore me. I’m starting to think that you don’t actually care what I say, you’re just going to stay stuck in your tradition and damn anyone who says otherwise.

                  You seem to think I’m a Roman Catholic, since you try to use indulgences, Popes, and the failures of the Roman See as if it will hurt me. It won’t. If you want to pick apart my theological background, get yourself a copy of the Book of Concord.

                  I never once have denied that Jesus is the God Who spoke to Moses on Sinai. Nor have I ever indicated that I don’t take God at what He says. But unlike you, I see clear evidence of God saying that the New Convenant will undo the Old (see Hebrews 8:13, which I quoted above).

                  The point of quoting the Church Fathers isn’t to make them out to be infallible, because they aren’t. Nevertheless, many of the earliest Fathers learned from either the Apostles themselves, or men who learned from the Apostles themselves. Therefore, they probably know more than we do.

                  Your language of, “Jesus loves all who love HIm” and “If we love Jesus He will love us back” makes the Gospel a law, whether you realize it or not. The Scriptures say that God loved us while were yet enemies of Him, not that He reciprocates love only if we give it to Him.

                  “I have not judged you.” Yes you have. You’ve insinuated that I, along with the vast majority of Christians past, present, and probably future are engaged in Satanic worship by not doing it on a Saturday. You’ve claimed we’re pagans for celebrating the liturgical traditions of Christmas and Pascha (note: “Easter” is a word used only in Germanic languages). You’ve clearly stated in your words that you consider us abominations in the sight of God for doing what we do. You’ve clearly judge me, and most Christians everywhere at every time, so don’t try this false humility shtick.

                  You’re right, Jesus will be the one to judge us. Until that day, I’ll keep the Gospel, you can have your Sabbath.

          • sno_warrior

            they ALL SLEPT! Both the wise (the ones with the oil of the Holy Spirit), and the foolish (the ones who didn’t believe in Bible Study) were sleeping when the Bride Groom announces His appearance, so it took everyone by surprise.

            But those who are grounded in Scripture, in Biblical truth, and STAND on the Word of God – those ‘filled with the Holy Spirit’ are the “wise virgins” and are let in through the ‘open door’ and then the door was shut!

            We should all get serious about our relationship with Christ and that can only happen through Bible Study and prayer. Let us all strive to be among the wise!

            • Steve Angell


        • dhebler

          God’s own are told to know the season and the second coming of Christ–

          Its for God’s own to know the season, not the year, the day, or month, but the season. And at the end of the season Christ returns!

          And Christ commanded for His own to “Watch” (Mk 13:35), so you are not caught sleeping (Mk 13:36). And a double emphasis in (Mk 13:37) to “Watch”. The idiom recites this way;
          “watchman watch the events that leads us to the second advent!”…….

          The key to knowing the season is found in (Mk 13:28); Christ commands us to learn this parable about the fig tree generation. This is the beginning of the season, its the last generation before that “Day”, the Lord’s Day——

          The parallel books to these verses are in Matthew 24: 32-36 and Luke 21: 29-36….
          The fig tree was planted on May 15, 1948……..

          The oil in the lamp is the oil of our people, its end time prophesy: Oil represents truth. And if you are one of God’s elect, then you’ll know the parable of the 10 virgins to the end.

          Parables are written to God’s election.
          The last generation that’s now living…..
          That’s that (Amen)…….

          • Insert_Cool_Username

            As I’ve said to many on this thread, the “season” has been every second since the Ascension straight through to whenever the Second Advent is. Jesus’ warnings are meant to be applied to every generation that waits in this Great Tribulation. Every generation should expect (if not pray) that it will be the last, for our Lord could return at any moment.

            We should be using this time to do our vocation and preach the Gospel, rather than using each and every occurrence to try and scare unbelievers into converting.

            • dhebler

              God has given signs to His own to know the signs of the times we live in today. Those signs are over time, its for His own to know, to understand with knowledge, and with wisdom (Prov 2:1-6). Those signs are not meant for everybody to know, because God has hide them (Rom 11:7-11) except from His own……

              Those with open eyes and open ears belong to God. At this present time (the last generation “fig tree”); God is opening eyes and ears to the truth to a end of a age coming…..

              Only those with open eyes and ears can see these truths to the end of a age. God is readying a special people called His own (Rom 11:4-5) to stand against powers and principalities (Lk 21:12-19), these are God’s own who will not bow a knee to Satan……

              Maybe its time for you to have eyes opened, and ears opened to the knowledge of God. Its God’s doing to open eyes and ears to His knowledge……

              “Watch” for the signs of the times written in the word to God’s own, its His election to know these things to our end.

              God sent His prophets in the O.T. and the people did not listen. Then God sent His Son in the N. T. and the people killed Him (Mat 21:33-40)…Remember parables are written to God’s own at the “end of these times…..

              If you don’t understand what is said, then put it away until another day—This is the knowledge of God to His own, a command to learn (Mk 13:28)…….that’s that (Amen)…..

              • Insert_Cool_Username

                “because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” (Romans 10:9)

                You know what that doesn’t say? It doesn’t say, “If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, and are super-duper-awesome-really-and-truly-amazing prophet who can determine the eschatological significance of Wilford Brimley’s toenail clippings, you will be saved.”

                What sign do you suggest I look to? Wars? There’s been thousands of them since Christ ascended. Rumors of war? Again, thousands. False prophets? Muhammad, Joseph Smith, Harold Camping, to name a few. False Christs? Bar Kochba, Sun Myung Moon, anyone?

                “Maybe its time for you to have eyes opened, and ears opened to the knowledge of God.” Maybe it’s time for you to focus on the Gospel and leave divining the stars and reading the winds to the pagans.

                Jesus will return, what day is not for you to know. That day is for you to anticipate, clinging to the Gospel and trusting in Christ to preserve you through all trials, even death itself.

                I’m going to let St. Paul have the last word:

                “For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes…” (Romans 1:16)

                • dhebler

                  This is a tough question to answer in just a few short words or sentences. The answers lie in Mat 24, Mk 13 and Lk21.

                  Example “Matthew”:

                  Mat 24:3…disciples asked Christ privately– (denote: privately, its only those who can see the end with open eyes).
                  Verses 4-5…many will have their own theories about the end. Christ warns His own. These are false teachers and preachers and denominations.
                  Verse 6-8…..these are signs and the beginning of sorrows–(labor pains). A woman in travail before she gives birth, her labor pains become closer and closer together. This is a etymology for you to understand.
                  Verse 9…this is a Spiritual death for many, but not God’s elect (Read Lk 21:12-19 they stand against Satan).
                  Verse 10…a lot of hate in this world today, Christian against Christian–observe.
                  verse 11-13..a key to understanding
                  2Tim 4:1-7.
                  verse 14. A sign for end of times. This is history that stretches over time.
                  verse 15..important, yet near future
                  2Thes 2:1-4. in Daniel we are warned
                  Dan 9:27. Its only for open eyes.
                  Verse 16-18..”watchman watch the events that leads us to the second advent!”

                  Verse 19..watch how those labor pains grow closer together. Its knowledge, understanding and wisdom (Prov 2:6).
                  Verse 20-21..Christ is our “Sabbath” great tribulation (Rev 17).
                  Verse 22…this is a message from God through Christ to His own (Ez 9:4 and Rev 9:4), this is the mark of God at the end–this is a sign.
                  Verses 23-24…Can you be deceived?

                  Maybe this is a sign to you: If you have the mark of God in your forehead; “its understanding, its knowledge, its wisdom until the second advent!”……

                  This is the “grace of God to know”……..

                  Take note:
                  The disciples were not called “Apostles (one sent forth)” in Matthew 24. Maybe its your time to transition into deeper knowledge, just like the disciples (students still). Only God has the answer to that question….that’s that (Amen)….

                • Insert_Cool_Username

                  “Maybe this is a sign to you: If you have the mark of God in your forehead; “its understanding, its knowledge, its wisdom until the second advent!”……

                  This is the “grace of God to know”……..”

                  So the gift of God is knowledge? How very Gnostic of you. And here I labored under the delusion that the gift of God was faith, not of ourselves lest any man should boast (Ephesians 2:8). And to think I thought the mark on our foreheads was the Triune Name of God which we were Baptized into (Matthew 28:19).

                  But evidently, the gift of God is some sort of super-mojo downloaded into my brain that gives me the ability to predict the future by checking the arrangement of my Lucky Charms.

                  If you wanna sit in your tower leaping and shouting “Antichrist!” at every little bump and groan, trying to use Japanese nuclear reactors and lunar cycles to assure yourself that you’re saved, go right ahead. I pray God preserve your faith through your constant chugging of this poisoned cup of cuckoo-banana-juice.

                  As for me, I’ll stick to the Gospel. I’ll keep trusting in Christ and Him crucified, confessing Him to my neighbors, and generally fulfilling my vocation in the time the God has allotted me in this perishing creation, while leaving the issue the Last Day to Christ.

                  +Pax Christi+

                • dhebler

                  Have a good day….you’re ears are closed…..thanks

                • Insert_Cool_Username

                  I make a habit of shutting my ears to false doctrine.

                • dhebler

                  Prov 1:7……

                • Insert_Cool_Username

                  Mark 13:32, Galatians 1:8

    • trouble06

      You beat me to it Cool. WE need only be ready when the Lord comes.

      • sno_warrior

        Be ye ready!!!

    • bartman44

      There is a lot in scripture that helps us to prepare through signs and expectations, not specific dates, just the times. This is done so that if we are alive we would otherwise be terrified, seduced through false teachings or coercion, and subject to yielding our faith — which would be spiritually fatal. Don’t reject knowledge of the time of trouble, it could threaten your salvation.

      • Insert_Cool_Username

        I would say that “the time of trouble” has been every single second from the Fall straight through now until the Second Advent. I would say the “Great Tribulation” is right now. The warnings we are given about the end: war, rumors of war, false prophets, false Christs; these aren’t exactly uncommon in the world before or after Jesus. They’ve been going on since our father Adam was expelled from Eden. So I would say that every day we need to be ready, and the threat of losing our salvation is always great.

  • Marridge

    I mentioned this yesterday in another RS thread. Folks, please start paying attention and get right with the Lord. Pastor JD Farag from Hawaii provides Mid-East prophecy updates every single week on Youtube. Subscribe to them. The videos are on the average 30 minutes long and get watched by almost 20,000 people and that number is growing. JD takes the news every week and ties it to Scripture. Look him up on Youtube. We live in exciting times!

    • stage9

      Good stuff. The part that bothered me was when he said in his Dec 29th sermon something I’ve said so many times, that America is not mentioned in prophesy because it will become irrelevant.

      That bothers me more than anything else. God help us.

      • Marridge

        I understand. Of course one of the reasons could well be that the largely Christian population in America may no longer be present 😉

        • las1

          John 17:15

          followed by

          John 17:20

        • stage9

          That could be true, let’s hope so, or it could be that our moral decline is so swift and our global influence with it, that the rest of the world moves on without us.

          Or it could be we’re attacked and an already weakened economy collapses.

          or both.

          America seems to be heading the way of ancient Israel during the days of Jeremiah. In that day, Judah had deviated so far from worshiping God and keeping His law that God was forced to withhold His blessings. He then raised up and used the Prophet Jeremiah to declare the imminent destruction of Jerusalem and the exile of the Hebrews to Babylon.

          And this all followed the national spiritual REVIVAL during Josiah’s reign! Which means that revival doesn’t necessarily guarantee the abjuration of judgment.

  • JohnCraven

    There is a time and a purpose for everything under the sun as Iraqi war veteran J. R. Salzman recently found out on a business trip.

    John Craven
    New Orleans

  • JohnCraven

    Perhaps as we ponder the heavens, it will be helpful to listen to the voice of an angel –
    John Craven
    New Orleans

  • B-Funk

    I forget how it’s phrased in the Bible, but it’s said that God confounds those that consider themselves intelligent. Nothing against these two authors, but you just can’t read what you want in to “signs”. Maybe these blood moons are nothing more than a reminder to Israel- and those that ally themselves- that God is here with us.