Why the iron legs on the statue in Daniel 2 CANNOT be the Roman Empire

I hope you don’t mind, but we’re going to take a slight detour from politics for a moment to bust a fallacy held by many regarding the iron legs on the statue discussed in Daniel 2 in the Bible.

Most Christians who’ve read the Bible or grown up in church have read or been taught about the statue in Daniel Chapter 2. King Nebuchadnezzar had a dream about a great statue with a gold head, a silver chest and arms, a bronze torso and thighs, iron legs, and feet made out of iron and clay. A rock was cut out but not with human hands and smashed the feet and the entire statue crumbled. The king had asked his wise men to interpret it for him, but wanted them to tell him what the dream was first (he refused to tell them) before they interpreted it. Obviously they were not mind readers and could not do it. But God gave Daniel the answer in a dream and he explained to the king his dream and what it meant and told the king this was a dream about the latter days.

Daniel-Ch.-2-Four-Kingdoms-Ten-Toes_small

In short, the gold head was the Babylonian Empire, the current empire of which Nebuchadnezzar was king. The silver chest was the Medo-Persian Empire, the bronze abdomen and thighs was the Grecian Empire, the iron legs (which is what this post is about) have always been said to have been the Roman Empire and the feed of iron and clay have always been said to be the new revitalized Roman empire that is to come.

Ok what’s important to note at this point is the actual scripture verse in Daniel 2 that talks about the legs. As I’ve said it’s been long and widely believed that the legs made of iron was the Roman Empire. But if you read the scripture verse carefully you’ll realize this cannot be so:

And the fourth kingdom shall be as strong as iron, inasmuch as iron breaks in pieces and shatters everything; and like iron that crushes, that kingdom will break in pieces and crush all the others.

Notice the bold. That one kingdom will crush ALL the other kingdoms. It doesn’t say that about any of the other kingdoms before it. This means this 4th kingdom will have crushed, or conquered, all the areas of the Babylonian, Medo-Persian, and Grecian kingdoms. This is the part of verse 40 that everyone seems to ignores and just assumes the 4th kingdom was the Roman empire because they were told that by someone who thought they knew. But let’s look at a few maps to see how it lines up based on this verse:

BABYLONIAN EMPIRE:
babylonian_empire1

PERSIAN EMPIRE:
persian_empire

GRECIAN EMPIRE:
grecianempire

 
Now let’s look at the ROMAN EMPIRE to see if it’s borders contain all these areas:

romanempire

 
While the Roman Empire was vast at its height, it certain didn’t contain all the areas of the three previous empires, especially the Grecian and Persian empires. So it obviously can’t be the legs of iron because it doesn’t crush ALL of the previous kingdoms.

So what empire has ever conquered all the area of the previous three? Let’s look at a couple of maps:

islamicconquests750ad_small

ottomanempire

Ah now we’re getting some where. The borders of all Islamic Caliphates (empires) when put together cover all the of regions occupied by the previous three kingdoms. This is essentially the empire of Islam that continued from virtually 622 to 1924 when it was finally broken up. Altogether there were 4 main Caliphates than spanned that entire time period with the exception of a little over 250 years between 1258 and 1517.

So in reality Islam is the 4th kingdom made of the iron legs that crushes all the others. And if that’s the case, then the feet made of iron and clay would be a revived Islamic Caliphate, not a revived Roman empire. And honestly if you are paying attention at what’s going on in the Middle East, then you know we are watching this new Islamic Caliphate form before our eyes.

But we also know that the rock cut out without human hands is Christ and he will smash to pieces this new Islamic Caliphate when He returns which I’m guessing isn’t too far off.

So I hope some of you have found this helpful. It’s always pertinent fully read scripture and not skip stuff that doesn’t fit a specific narrative. And I highly recommend for those who are new to Bible Prophecy and are interested in learning more, just go to youtube and type in “Walid Shoebat” and listen to your hearts content.

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  • chj82

    I thought the kingdoms was supposed to be successive? I do agree that it is going to be an Islamic Kingdom that is going to come out of all of this. I think that it is going to be five countries from the Eastern half of the Roman Empire and five countries from the Western half of the Roman Empire. If I had to pick I would say that it is Turkey, Lebanon, Egypt, Libya, Syria from the east and Spain, Italy, Greece, Portugal, & France from the west. With the Pope being the false prophet and an Islamic Antichrist.

    • The pope isn’t a part of this. Nothing in scripture to support that.

      • ryanomaniac

        Why couldn’t the pope be the false prophet?

        • John Bohler

          Because he doesn’t produce any prophecies?

        • sno_warrior

          the pope is not the false prophet, he is the antichrist. The ‘beast’ is the RCC (the system), and the ‘false prophet’ is apostate protestantism in the last days reaching her hand across the gulf to Romanism.

      • Susanna958

        There is plenty to support that Don’t just look at a particular Pope, look at the Papacy as a whole. They are the only ones that have declared themselves to be “God on Earth”. Their whole doctrine is false prophesy. Read some of the decrees from early Popes.

      • PuritanD71

        I asked a good friend of mine who is up on the biblical languages and even teaches world religions to look at your article. Below is his response which seems to indicate that there may be a few “holes” in your argument. Nonetheless, there is some food for thought regarding it.

        Simple answer: the Hebrew text doesn’t say “all the
        others”. You might argue that this is implied, but several translations don’t (KJV, for example). Moreover, the historic “holy grail” of ancient kingdoms was always Mesopotamia, and Rome did (at least for a time) control that region. Further, the “empire” of Alexander the Great map they show is only his personal conquests. The instant he died (on his way home from the conquest) this “empire” fell apart.

    • The pope is really insignificant to biblical prophecy, to be honest. I don’t know why people still hold on to this idea. I’ve cast aside this opinion for years.

    • slhancock

      Nothing indicated they would be successive, nor did anything indicate that we’d still be here 2000 years after Christ’s death and resurrection, waiting for His return.

  • PNWShan

    I thought that the idea of the two legs is that one is Europe and one is the part of the Middle East/Asia that became the Caliphates. Otherwise, we have a distance of about 1000 years, since Alexander the Great died in 323 BC and Mohammed didn’t begin his empire-building until 622.If Europe becomes more Islamicized, then we’ll see a huge Caliphate.

    • Remember though Mo hasn’t been around that long, you’re right, but the lineage goes back to Ishmael.

      • PuritanD71

        Duckie, there is little to no evidence of an actual bloodline connection between Mohammad and Ishmael. Those who came from Ishmael were called Ishmaelites. Mohammad is an Arab at best. Muslims intentionally make this connection to make themselves “viable”. In other words, they make a claim to make their religion legitimate. The Muslim beliefs were created not during Ishmael’ s days but out of whole cloth by Mohammad, similarly to dare I say, Mormonism’ s start.

        • I’m sorry Puritan, It was late when I posted and I was in a hurry. I don’t mean necessarily Mo is bloodline to Ishmael. I don’t know how to describe it- dang it I’m tired. I mean that the original Ishmaelite people were enemies of Israel, continues in many of the same Islamic countries today, and that THEY consider themselves of the bloodline to Ishmael. I didn’t mean lineage when I posted that, I meant hostilities more. sigh, if that makes sense.

          • PuritanD71

            Well, that does make more sense. Sorry for any misunderstanding

            • lol I’m sorry. This is what happens when I’ve got 30 some other pages open before bed!

      • PuritanD71

        Asked a good friend of mine who is up on biblical languages and teaches world religions replied, “Simple answer: the Hebrew text doesn’t say “all the others”. You might argue that this is implied, but several translations don’t (KJV, for example). Moreover, the historic “holy grail” of ancient kingdoms was always Mesopotamia, and Rome did (at least for a time) control that region. Further, the “empire” of Alexander the Great map they show is only his personal conquests. The instant he died (on his way home from the conquest) this “empire” fell apart.”

  • I agree Scoop. I have for a long time. I’ve looked at and shown similar maps to a lot of folks over the years. Not all have agreed, but watching, reading listening and studying, I have to say I agree with that part.

  • Joengima

    The Iron Legs is the Roman Empire.

    Crushing all the kingdoms doesn’t necessarily means conquering all the land. Basically the territory of the Old Kingdom of Babylon is what you need to look at.

    Also Alexander the Great’s Empire didn’t survive after his death but split apart. The GRECIAN EMPIRE can be any of the four the remained.

    The legs fit the Roman Empire well considering there was a split between East and West. So the legs are of the Roman Empire and the Byzantine Empire (Easter Roman Empire which was also known as the Greek Empire in those days)

    What came after was the Ottoman Empire which can be considered a revitalized Roman Empire. Why? The Ottoman Sultan Mehmed II, after conquering Constantinople declared himself Kayser-i Rum, which means Caesar of Rome.

    • Does calling himself Caesar of Rome change what or who he is?

      What if he called himself a bowl of oatmeal?

      • Joengima

        The Sultan was a decendent of a Byzatine Empress so there is some bloodline there.

    • Terrenceor

      The two legs could be the Sunni/Shiite division in Islam. Read verses 41-43 where it talks about the feet of clay and iron where they are of the same kingdom, but don’t mix.

    • So what about the Persian empire? You can’t just ignore that one.

      Also, to suggest that because there is an east and a west it’s the best fit for the iron legs just completely ignores what the scripture says. I could have easily said there were two great periods of Islam – one being the original Islamic empire and the other being the Ottoman empire. That’s 2 legs. I chose not to do that though because I’d be reading into scripture.

      Also, the truth is whether you call it crushing, bruising, or breaking them into pieces….it does refer to conquering those kingdoms which would mean conquering the area that those kingdoms occupied. I mean really, what else is ‘crush’ supposed to mean?

      Also there is so much more in eschatology that points to Islam. I just chose to highlight this portion to begin with.

      • Joengima

        There is more to that reasoning to say the Roman Empire is the iron legs than just East and West. You have to take historical accounts for consideration; considering the Islamic Caliphate came after the Bible was written.

        I never said you ignore the full scope; you keep just the boundaries of Ancient Babylon.

        Trajan did conqure Parthia but didn’t keep the land at the end.

        But you need to take this into consideration: that kingdom will break in pieces and crush all the others.

        The Roman Empire did indeed break in pieces and crushed all others. Crisis of the Third Century the Empire split into 3 factions and the Romans became whole again. This pre-dates Trajan and his expansion in 117 AD.

        Besides, of course it be the Roman Empire when you consider the fact it was the Roman Emperor Constatine which assembled the Council of Nicia which organized the gospels in the New Testiment and made the first Bible.

        • Just because the Islamic Caliphates came after the bible was written doesn’t negate it being the iron legs. After all, when this prophecy was delivered to Nebuchadnezzar, only Babylon existed. The other empires hadn’t even come at that point.

          As to the rest, it just seems like excuses. If you agree that the gold was babylon, the silver was the medo-persians, the bronze was the grecian, then you have to take into account what verse 40 says…and it says that the iron legs will crush them all. Clearly the Roman empire at its greatest extent did not.

          But I’ve made my argument already on this. So no since in repeating it here.

  • Sentinel

    Very interesting. Thanks for this Scoop! I agree, Walid Shoebat has a LOT to say on the subject – and more.

  • jay28elle

    This is a great article and view on the topic. I have just recently become more involved in religious history, eschatology, and getting a better understanding of the various religions other than from just a ‘western view’.

    Walid Shoebat has become a very important resource for me, and I agree with the comment to see what he has to say concerning these topics (he is also exposing lots of Benghazi material, many from a middle eastern view, not sanitized by western PC). shoebat.com is one of my first reads each morning.

    Back in October he did a great peice about Bible Prophecy and contrasted the Islamic view of biblical events with Christianity (especially with our westernized views, or Eurocentric view), and addressed these in lots of detail. Including why the Pope can not be the false prophet.

    The link to that video is:

    http://shoebat.com/2013/10/29/bible-prophecy-coming-muslim-anti-christ/

  • ivan

    the Book of Danial was definitely written before the 2nd century BC since we have fragments of it dating to around that time; it also clearly refers to the Roman Empire in the legs reference in this image according to the best scholars articles of which can be found in the internet. Liberal scholars who deny the prophetic element claim it ends with the Syrian kingdom around 165 BC.

    • There are a lot of scholars who are switching their positions based on what Walid Shoebat has brought to the table. Even Jack Van Impe, if you consider him a scholar of sorts, has started recommending Walid Shoebat’s book to his viewers.

      But regardless of that, I’ve given you solid proof based on scripture that it can’t be the Roman Empire. To suggest that I’m wrong because scholars have always thought it was the roman empire…well, that’s a bit weak.

      • Taurnil Oronar

        I concur, scholars don’t always get things right and in my view often to tightly wrapped around the axle over their own biases; even though they think they do not have any.

        Now I don’t know if all that Walid says is true in accordance with Gods Word but much of it on this subject shows me he has a much better grasp of that region, history and related Biblical aspects than the “scholars”.

        After all did Jesus not stand before the scholars of his day and they (scholars) were confounded by his words? And these scholars had the very same texts as Jesus to learn from.

      • sno_warrior

        Solid proof according to YOUR opinion RS, not mine! 🙂

  • ivan

    The image prophesy reaches unto the last days because it says the Kingdom of God would take over the earth replacing earthly governments; that has not happened yet.

    • midwestMad

      There is a great deal that hasn’t happened yet. I don’t think there will be any doubt when Jesus returns.

      • ivan

        A Survey Of Old Testament Introduction by Gleason Archer has a great discussion on the book of Daniel refuting all the so called proofs for a late date, about 165 BC, for the book. It also points to Rome as the iron legs.

  • Ha! So the Eastern Christians have been vindicated!
    But I don’t think the charts do great justice to the argument though, because there is still a wide swath of area from the North of India up until the eastern part of Iran that isn’t compensated for.

    So, I had to go and look at some maps of the Islamic empires that I could recall (yes, it’s been quite a while since high school) from Global studies. The best I could come up with is a combination of the Umayyad and Abbasid Caliphate. In fact, it fits so snugly, that it’s scary.

    • Yeah it’s hard finding really great maps for this purpose…so I just went with a few that I could find that covered it generally.

      • Great article, though. It’s real food for thought.

  • sjmom

    Very interesting Scoop. Thanks for the post. Even so, come Lord Jesus!

    • Conservative_Hippie

      Amen!

  • Conniption Fitz

    By this interpretation, the belly and abdomen of bronze could represent both the Greco-Roman Empires, since both had similar cultural elements and foundations.

    Then the elements of iron (that rusts) and clay (that crumbles and melts) would be very appropriate symbols for the nature/character of Mohammed’s kingdom and the dichotomous, conflicting, unstable ideological system that is always at war within itself and with all others.

    Interestingly, the statue does not directly represent either Judaism or Christianity, nor the history of the Christian Church and its rise to power, nor later global political kingdoms: the Holy Roman Empire, the British empire, the uprisings of Germany, the rise of the USA, Russia, Japan and China to global power.

    Perhaps it is only an allegory about the kingdoms that attack/affect the old and new Israel: Judaism and Christianity.

    Both Judaism and Christianity have suffered great oppositions and persecutions, grave errors and sins through the ages, yet God’s Kingdom/Word/Commandments/Spiritual Laws/Church survive, grow and bear fruit when the human heart and mind are opened and surrendered.

    History shows that even when the Church is without power, and is suffering, she seems to bear fruit, but when the people of God seek political power/domination/riches, they lose their spiritual purity and spiritual power.

    Does this ‘new Islamic caliphate’ that the iron and clay represent include the globalist/atheist/pansexualist/communist powers that seem to join Islam to oppose/hate/persecute Christians and Jews today?

    Why is Babylon represented by Gold, then the progressively less strong, less stable and less valuable materials as time goes on and kingdoms rise and fall?

    Why does the most common earthly material, rock/stone, represent God’s own Kingdom?

    Perhaps the most important question is: What does the Daniel passage mean for the people of God in our times? Is there an eternal spiritual principle illustrated for warning, direction, comfort?

  • harglide

    I am excited that this topic is on Daniel, as my wife and I too just finished a study with Beth Moore regarding this topic. Beth nails it and the study is very deep, but very enriching. It sure does line up with what is happening today, and it is nice to see RS touch on this topic.
    If anyone has the time or interest to follow on this deeper, Beth is a great source for more knowledge.
    Thanks RS and Happy New Year!

    • midwestMad

      Check out Chuck Missler if you haven’t already. I love his scientific approach.

  • slhancock

    Walid brings back to Biblical studies the ME perspective that is sorely missing in American theology. We tend to interpret Scripture based on our American experience. After living in Turkey for 6 years, I could not stomach the American bent towards America being prominent in the End Times. Even living in Europe, it was the same thing..their bent towards believing it meant them literally, instead of Israel. Walid talks about WHO CHrist attacks when He returns. It ties in all those OT Scriptures that nobody knew what to do with. It gives you names! You can look up their ancient names, but once you do, it is amazing! These are all descendants from Esau and Ishmael.

    I, for one, think we are possibly living in the beginning of the End Times. Look at the 5th seal of Revelation. When the seal is broken, we see the souls of those who have been beheaded and they are asking when they’ll be vindicated. Christ tells them to wait until ALL who are to be beheaded are “in”. The 6th seal opens with a terrible earthquake and then the signs that Jesus told His own disciples to look for…”when you see these things you will know”…! Christians world-wide are being persecuted, and in the ME, they are being beheaded! Not just a few, either. I don’t think we are in the 5th seal yet, but we are in the “birth pangs. Americans are sold on the pretrib rapture, but I don’t find how one can hold to that view. I was of that view until about the age of 35-36. (I’m now 65) I feel that Christ doesn’t deliver us from tribulation, which is from the Antichrist, fueled by Satan’s rage, but He does deliver us from God’s wrath, the very end of the 7 week time frame. Christ told us we’d go through persecution, and why should the student escape the persecution that the Master endured? Are we better than Him? No we are not. We will go through Antichrist’s persecution, but before the wrath of God is poured out in the 7 trumpets and 7 vials, we will be raptured to be forever with our Lord. I don’t feel Scripture was intended to be so convoluted about something so important. This is the clearest reading of those passages in Revelation, and when comparing them to other End Times prophetic Scriptures, I think it explains how things will happen and what to look for so we are not deceived.

    • Conniption Fitz

      The conflict between man-made/counterfeit religion and true religion goes back further than Ishmael vs Isaac or Esau vs Jacob, to Cain and Abel.

      This true/false religions conflict continues between Caananites (Cain’s descendants) and the Philistines, Hittites, Jebusites, etc. vs Moses/Children of Israel and on to the present day conflict between the present-day Philistines/Caananites (Islamists, pansexuals, atheists, global warming, et al) vs the Jews and Christians who remain faithful to God’s Laws/Precepts/Word.

    • sno_warrior

      “We tend to interpret Scripture based on our American experience.” (see above)

      You would think that people would ‘interpret Scripture’ through studying the Bible and through prayer, letting the Holy Spirit teach doctrine. We can only decifer the Bible by asking the Holy Spirit to reveal those things that God has hidden from our understanding.

      If we interpret the Bible, and Bible prophecy based on our ‘American experience’, we are in BIG TROUBLE.

      • midwestMad

        But it is only natural to do so. How many of us know Hebrew and Arabic? I mean, really? I don’t think people are as bad as stated above, but it is only natural to interpret based on what you know. This is why Walid’s insights are valuable. He knows Hebrew, Arabic, grew up in the ME and was a faithful Muslim (until he read the Bible so he could convince his wife that it was corrupted and learned it wasn’t!)

  • Steven

    The problem with this interpretation of this in my opinion is the kingdom of the AntiChrist will be a global one. One world government. To me this government will be secularist and definitely anti- Christian. One thing we know about the Islamic kingdoms is that they will be religious and that religion will be Islam. The kingdom of the Anti-Christ will have its own “religion” with the Anti-Christ being worshipped. Think of the Anti-Christ as an uber Obama on a global scale. Another really big deal about the kingdom of the Anti-Christ is the mark of the beast. In Daniel, it talks about an age where there will be an acceleration of knowledge. Undoubtedly, we are seeing the contours of all this in our age with globalization, the internet, regional trade zones like the EU and NAFTA, bitcoin, global surveillance via supercomputers, secure payments with biometrics, increased socialism, securalism and atheism (remember the Communist etc.) NONE OF THESE developments are emanating from the Islamic world. All of these developments are from the Western, modern world, derived from the Roman Empire.

    The final kingdom of man, in my opinion will be one that is global, with a single currency or means of payment, secured with a biometric technology, divided into ten regional states. Technology will the driving force that flattens the world. The religion of the Anti-Christ will try to deceive even the elect by adopting the same aspiration of Christianity and other religions, but by promising those through science and technology. It will setup man as God and the Anti-Christ will be the ultimate manifestation of this. There is already a quasi-scientific religion growing out there called the Singularity. There is even an institute called the Singularity University. The teaching is that the rapid advancements in technology we have seen will be so pronounced that there will be a tipping point called the singularity in which mankind enters a post-human age. They call this the final evolution, in which the human brain interface is crossed with the rapid advancements in computer technology. I would pay more attention to this than the rabble in the Middle East.

    • Curiousmoi

      You might be interested in reading Gods War on Terror by Shoebat and he makes a brilliant biblical case for the similarities between the anti-Christ and the Islamic Mahdi or the 12th Imam

    • Conniption Fitz

      Obnoxious has ambitions to become the Secretariat of the UN after his stint as POTUS..a vastly more empowered UN with increased powers overriding national laws, one that pushes blasphemy laws protecting Islam’s aggressions, encroachments and human rights violations.

      • midwestMad

        Obama is not the anti-christ. He might be paving the way for them, but he isn’t them. The Anti-Christ will have everyone fooled but Christians. Obama doesn’t fit the bill.

    • Conservative_Hippie

      You make some valid points!

    • OK here’s a question for you. If there is a one-world government under which all nations are controlled, then who is left to fight the Anti-Christ?

      Answer: There is no one-world government. There will be a caliphate that controls the Islamic nations within it and that is what it means. Christ, then, will bring seven nations against the Anti-Christ (Assyrian) as it says in Micah 5:5-6

      • sno_warrior

        Gods’ people – THOSE who will be “redeemed from the earth” (Rev. 14:3); THOSE “who follow the Lamb wherever He goes” (Rev. 14:4); THOSE who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.” (Rev. 14:12); THOSE who “keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ” (Rev. 12:17) – THEY, being filled with the Holy Spirit as in the day of pentecost, will go forth in the strenght of Jesus Christ and EXPOSE the man of sin, the Antichrist.

        But don’t anyone kid themselves, the BATTLE IS GODS. This is a ‘spiritual battle’ between the forces of ‘good and evil’ – it’s a battle for the mind – who are you going to worship?! There is NO WAY that we can win this battle without having the ‘faith of Jesus’ and standing ‘in HIS strength’. Read Psalm 91 and see that it is all about HIM.

        He (the Antichrist) is already here. He has been exposed for centurys but the STRAIGHT TESTIMONY given in the last days (days of political correctness) will cause great distress upon the nations…. it will most likely bring WAR Scripture teaches that the whole world will be aligned against those to ‘walk with the Saviour’ and ‘keep His commandments’.

      • midwestMad

        Just as Walid Shoebat explained.

      • Steven

        What about Daniel 7:22-25? Which explicitly says the last kingdom of man will devour the entire world? That sounds like global government to me.

    • midwestMad

      Walid pointed out that there are other places in the Bible where they talk about the whole world and it was only the Middle East so it is reasonable to say that things aren’t necessarily global.

  • Curiousmoi

    Walid is the most knowledgeable prophecy expert around and this article captures the truth sooo well

    • midwestMad

      Most knowledgeable? That is pretty subjective. But he certainly is interesting.

  • Judefour

    This opinion is founded on the belief in ‘dispensationalism’ and the ‘pre-millenialism’ that goes along with it. The whole system is based on a pseudo literal interpretation of prophecy, even though the subjects at hand may be figurative, or more importantly, spiritual in nature. It’s a procrustean system that leads into gross error.
    There is no doubt that the ‘legs of iron’ are the two regions ruled by Ptolemy and Seleucis, which were strongly tied to the Roman empire, and which were especially cruel against the saints, and militarily as well. The ‘bronze’ representation is undoubtedly Alexander the Great, which fulfillment has taken place, you cannot then insert Islam into the next image as something yet unfulfilled. Here is the fatal error of dispensationalism; they don’t see Jesus Kingdom as Spiritual in nature, and currently established so as to never have an end. This notion requires Jesus to come again to conquer in the military sense, giving the Jews at the time another ‘chance’ to born from above, and then finally put an end to time by the last and final judgment. Jesus Himself refutes this fantasy in the parable of the Wheat & Tares; the tares are gathered up first, and they are described as “all who offend and work iniquity.” That would comprise the whole of unregenerate humanity from the beginning of time, till the end of time.
    The whole of Daniels prophecy is fulfilled, as the ‘rock’ (Jesus) has come and made atonement for “the sins of the whole world”, which would include the Muslims also, if they repent of their idolatry and denounce their false prophet. There are no more opportunities for the gospel salvation, once Jesus returns again and divides the sheep from the goats. God “respects no mans person” including the Jewish people. If they (the Jews), or any Gentile for that matter, turn to Jesus today, the “veil will be taken away”. If they remain hard hearted, and refuse to believe Moses and the Prophets, then they won’t believe “even if one would rise from the dead”, which Jesus did Himself, and has left unimpeachable evidence as proof. Be certain of this truth; when Jesus returns, there will be no more opportunity for any soul to repent and receive the divine nature.

  • Bryan Ewbank

    Very nice divergence

  • timerunnersc

    ISLAM is only a part of the total picture.

  • … and the toes of miry clay?
    (Daniel 2:43)

  • Conservative_Hippie

    Wow, nice work RS! What other info do you have to contradict my Baptist upbringing? LOL!

    • It was my upbringing too. But once I started listening to Walid Shoebat he just made too much sense for me to keep hanging on to what I had be taught regarding end times

      • Conservative_Hippie

        Well my wife and I have differing opinions about the Rapture, but we are both starting to lean Walid’s way on the Anti-Christ being Islamic.

        • Yeah I don’t think there’s going to be a ‘rapture’ as we were taught…you know, before the tribulation. I think we’re all gonna be here when Christ comes back and will fight side by side with him against the enemy

          • Conservative_Hippie

            You take my wife’s side, lol!

          • sno_warrior

            We WILL be here during the tribulation. There is a rapture at the second coming of Christ BUT it will not be a secret. He came silently ONCE as a baby and next time it will be as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Why would HE ‘sneek in’ to get HIS people?

            • midwestMad

              Who said he sneaks in? I imagine a bunch of Christians rising in the sky to meet him will be pretty hard to mistake.

          • midwestMad

            The Bible indicates pre-Trib rapture. Listen to Chuck Missler. (He is a pretty awesome teacher.)

          • Arodi Cifuentes

            I agree with you, there wont be any rapture, i mean it doesn’t make sense about that. Before Jesus Christ comes back, we will see whose side we will be, with Jesus or Satan.

      • stage9

        I was taught the same thing. In fact, I had a friend try and convince me of the islamic angle BEFORE 9/11, and I brushed him off. I am becoming more and more convinced that what you outlined above is more plausible.

      • maynardb50

        As much as I love Hal Lindsay, I think he got it wrong with the Roman/European connection. I still enjoy watching him though and think he may be coming around ever so slightly.

  • Taurnil Oronar

    That seems to be in line with some of the things I have heard Walid Shoebat speak of; especially the ROCK.

  • Laurel

    Fascinating! Certainly fits better.

  • If we are in the last generation based on Israel becoming a nation again, then we don’t have much time left. I know of the Islamic infiltration of many nations, but don’t see them every being a controlling factor in end times prophesy. They certainly have their part to play, but I largely believe that they are just one faction to be used by the new world government, and the anti-Christ. it is possible that the anti-Christ could have Islamic connections, but he will be controlled by Satan himself. He will bring all of the Religions together, and then claim himself to be god. He may somehow appeal to Muslims, but he will not be able to take a hard Muslim line. How would he be able to bring the rest into the fold if he did? The anti-Christ will be a false Christ that everyone will be looking toward to solve global problems. I see now that many are taking a different road on the rapture, and that is good, because I believe the pre-trib rapture theory was invented to stand down Christians. The same goes for Romans 13. Anyone who takes a hard line with their religion will be persecuted by the anti-Christ. Obviously this means Christians, but it will not disclude Muslims. Fundimentalist Muslims cannot abandon their beliefs any easier than Fundimentalist Christians can. Both will be the enemy of the new world religious order led by the anti-Christ. Regardless of the origins of the anti-Christ, I believe that we will know him when he appears. At least those who are looking, and have Godly discernment. We will certainly know him when he commits the abomination that causes desolation. That is when we will be running for the hills. Stay diligent Christians.

  • sno_warrior

    IMO you are wrong. That’s not what Luther thought, it’s not what Wesley thought, it’s not what Calvin thought…that IS NOT what any of the reformers of the Reformation thought. If you want a ‘accurate interpretation’ of Daniel 2 go to an Seventh-day Adventist Church and learn ‘biblical truth’, or you can go to http://www.amazingfacts.org

    • midwestMad

      As we get closer to end times, it becomes clearer. Don’t cling to old teachings.

    • You show me scholars and I’ll show you the Bible. If you must rely on scholars, even in the face of absolute scripture, then you hold to biases and not the scripture.

      • sno_warrior

        I don’t rely on scholars but the Bible mr.rightscoop. This position that you are NOW holding is one that IS DIFFERENT than what you PREVIOUSLY believed and NOW you are giving me HELL for believing something that is close to what YOU PREVIOUSLY BELIEVED and NOW I’m the bad guy!!! What’s up with that!

        If you were to do a SERIOUS Bible Study on Daniel and Revelation, (and it take more than ONE), you would realize exactly who the Antichrist is. And he darn sure DOESN’T come from any of the Muslim countries! I’ll guarantee you that!

        • Your comment shows that you need to dial it back and quit making this a personal thing.

          Helpful hint: people here are known for “SERIOUS” study. If you relax and take the time to learn that, you won’t come off poorly in the discussion.

        • LoveJesus

          The Book of Daniel patterns the future Antichrist after Antiochus IV Epiphanes, ruler of the Seleucid Kingdom that ruled over the areas of Turkey, Syria, Iraq. Last time I checked, those were Muslim countries.

    • LoveJesus

      Actually Luther, Calvin, and Wesley thought the the Antichrist was two pronged. One horn was the Pope, the other was the Turks. Get yer’ facts straight Adventist man.

      • sno_warrior

        am I correct to assume that this ‘repy’ was written in ‘contempt’ of my religion, mr. redroverjimman???

        • LoveJesus

          My reply was in contempt of your ignorance and bias. If it is due to slavishly listening to Ellen White as a prophetess, then that is your issue, not mine.

          • sno_warrior

            Satan has found easy access to the hearts of men. He is a diligent student of the Bible and is much better acquainted with the prophecies than many religious teachers. He knows that it is in his interest to keep well informed in the revealed purposes of God, that he may defeat the plans of the Infinite One.

            So infidels (such as yourself) frequently study the Scriptures more diligently than some who profess to be guided by them. Some of the ungoldy (such as yourself) search the Scriptures that they may become familiar with Bible truth and furnish themselves with arguments to make it appear that the Bible contridicts itself. And many other professed Christians are so ignorant of the Word of God, through neglect of its study, that they are blinded by the deceptive reasoning of those who pervert sacred truth that they may turn souls away from the counsel of God in His Word.

            Are you one of the ‘infidels’ or one of the ‘ignorant christians’? Surely with your babbling you are one or the other!

            • LoveJesus

              You can always identify someone who is in a cult through seeing how they relate to true Christians who are not in the cult. They call everyone outside the cult “infidels” and “unbelievers”.

              • sno_warrior

                “Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. (Matthew 7:1-5)

                No, I’m calling you a HYPOCRITE!

  • Bill Wai

    Interesting, but I still hold to Rome. For one, the kingdoms were sequential, overthrowing each other before it. Do you really think the Roman Empire would be left out, just skipped over, the very kingdom that hung Jesus on the cross? I don’t. Also historians always used iron to describe the Roman Empire. Now I believe the Islamic influence most assuredly plays in Bible prophecy, especially considering Ezekiel 38,39 but so did the Roman Empire and so does a Revived Roman Empire that has lots of non-Romans (clay) living in it. None of us can be dogmatic on these things however. God always has a way of surprising us mortals.

    • I can appreciate what you are saying, but it just isn’t Biblical. You can want the Roman empire to be there, but the Bible is clear in how it discusses the 4th kingdom and there is simply no way for it to be there. The Bible is what the Bible is….not what we want it to be.

      • Bill Wai

        I’m in a quite conservative denomination that holds to a literal (common sense) view of scripture. For instance, I’ll argue until the cows come home that the earth is a little over 6,000 years old and was created in 6 literal 24 hour days but to be so dogmatic regarding eschatology belief, I believe is unwise. So I agree with you that the Bible is what it is, not what we want it to be, but stating now who the ten toes are going to be FOR SURE is a bit bold. It is not that clear! 🙂

  • MontanaAnnie

    Interesting! I’ve always heard Rome, and just never disputed it (or thought it out!) but the maps really help. Thanks, Scoop!

  • Carl T.

    I have to disagree. It did crush the other kingdoms and ruled the world. The Roman Empire answered to no one. And in fact took over babylon which is the subject.

    • Show me a map where its boundaries include that of the greecian and persian empires, what we called today Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, etc…

      • Carl T.

        The subject of the scripture is the succession of the empires who will take Nebuchadnezzar’s kingdom. Not the entire world.

    • LoveJesus

      Rome never ruled the world. Anyone living in Persia would laugh at such an assertion. Of the 1500 years that Rome existed, it “held” the city of Babylon for several months. But it was almost immediately forced back west with its tail between its legs. When Islam came, it crushed Babylon and does so to this day.

      • Carl T.

        The “world” in the eyes of Daniel was the land of his fathers.
        Mesopotamia was an Imperial province.
        The Caliphate is the fifth empire, not the fourth. And will indeed be broken by the Rock.

  • 455supreme

    I have seen this theory before. I think it is more correct. Here is a video that some may find interesting, I know I did. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrRwnYKW7dM

  • David Lister

    THE FOURTH BEAST OF DANIEL 2 AND ISLAM

    A RESPONSE

    These assertions are frankly silly. Whether they relate to Walid’s
    newfound role as an apologist for Roman Catholicism ( therefore wanting
    to disount Rome as villainous) we do not know, but we are reminded that
    Walid’s claim that the mark of the beast is not 666 but an Arabic
    inscription is an implausible notion ismissed by every Greek and Arabic
    scholar who has his thesis linguitically.

    1) To
    begin with the Aramaic term ‘shatter’ is the prepositional form of “re
    eah” which is the simply the Chaldee term for the Hebrew ” ra
    ah” meaning to ‘ render no good ‘ or ‘spoil’, And that is all. In no way
    does the term entail or imply “occupy”. When the Roman Emporer Trajan
    defeated the Parhians ( Persians) in 118 AD , Persia never recovered but
    went into a spiral of decline and disintegrated into the
    insignificant Sassanid Empire although fruitless border wars continued
    against the Roman and Byzantians for centuries until the Caliphite
    invasion. The notion that the fourth beast had to occupy all of the land
    of the previous empires is not stated in the prophecy. Walid has
    plainly read something into the text of his own misguided design that
    is simply not in there. Walid introduces a completely bogus
    presupposition not contained in the text.

    None
    of the empires in Daniel occupied all of the territory of the empires
    they conquored. Alexander The Great reached Beluchistan but never
    occupied it. The Persians conquered the Babylonian Empire but never
    occupied or even invaded the Arabian Peninsula and they ignored most of
    the Sinai when they took Egypt. Walid’s idea is his own invention. It
    is not scripturally predicted nor did it ever historically transpire in
    the manner he mistakenly contends in any of the prophetically predicted
    conquests.

    2) The
    fact of the matter is that for Walid Shoebat to be right , there would
    have to be a hiatus between the fall of the four sectors of the post
    Alexander Greek Empire and the rise of the Caliphates nearly 900 years
    later. This is inconsistent with the rest if the text if Daniel for
    two reasons . First of of after the fall of Assyria and the meteoric
    rise of Babylon , the four beasts are sequential not non sequential.
    Secondly, the idea that Rome is omitted and a post scriptural Islamic
    Caliphate inserted centuries later violates the sequence of the previous
    three empires. Secondly, Daniel must be read as a whole book and the
    prophetic place of Rome is indisputable in Chapter 9:24 that the Messiah
    would have to come and die before after a coming invader, which was
    obviously Rome, destroyed the Second Temple in 70 AD.

    When we see moreover that the Gospel narratives and The Book of Acts and the Epistle to the Romans devote so much importance
    to Rome
    , to such Daniel omitted it when it was do crucial to the coming of
    Christ ( eg. Luke 2:1) is again not a plausible proposition.

    In
    addition to this Walid’s theory ignores the fact that the Islamic
    Empire was not a historical & religious monolith but involved the
    triumph over the Arab Islamic world by the Turkish ( later Ottoman)
    moslem world, which would be two beasts, not one. They were never
    concurrent sllies but successive rivals. Neither dies the mixture if
    iron and clay in any discernable manner fit a description of moslem
    civilization. While Europe was in the Dark Ages, one could write a check
    in Bagdad and cash it in Morocco. It was a unified centralized empire
    that was strategically, culturally, technologically, and economically
    advanced by the standards if its age. It was all iron – no clay. It just
    does not fit.

    3)
    To take Walid’s post scriptural citation of the Ottoman Empire, we
    could just as readily point out that England and France were both in the
    Roman Empire. The British Empire controlled Iraq, much of Arabia and
    the Persian Gulf, later the Trans Jordan, Egypt and Sudan. France
    controlled Lebanon and Syria and all of North Africa inluding Tunesia,
    Algeria, Libya, and Morocco. But again, this too like the Ottoman
    Empire was post scriptural.

    While
    we have no doubt whatsover that Mohammed was an anti christ and Islam
    is an anti christ religion and that these Islamic countries arising in
    importance today are the same countries at the center of world events in
    scripture is all of prophetic significance eschatologically, Walid’s
    assertion about the fouth beast however is simply not a credible
    argument theologically or historically.

    I
    would also add that there are a number of things I appreciate about
    Walid in terms of his support for Israel and his sober warnings to the
    Western church about the true nature if Islam. He is not by any
    means wrong in all of what he says. On a personal basis moreover, we
    have always been friends and where possible I have in the past defended
    him from his critics. But in his eschatology he is doctrinally wrong and
    in his recently expressed apologetics case on behalf of Roman
    Catholicism Walid is doubly wrong.

    Blessings in Jesus,

    J. Jacob PraschMoriel

    • LoveJesus

      Jacob Prasch,

      To the contrary, you make several logical, historical and even grammatical errors.

      As a support for your argument, you say that it is impossible that there is a separation in the statue between the belly and thighs (Grecian Empire) and the legs (Islam), because the Empires must have been chronologically contiguous. You say there can be no time pause as they were successive. Yet you then turn and see a 2000 year gap between the legs and feet! By claiming that the feet represent a future revived Roman Empire, you have inserted a hiatus far more vast than the one you refuse to allow for others. So you are both inconsistent and a hypocrite!

      Then you say that the Roman Empire crushed the Parthians (Persians). Nonsense. When Trajan entered Persia, the Parthians simply rolled back their forces and laid in wait for a time. Then they began launching offensives that forced Rome out with their tails between their legs forever! Hadrian recognized that the the Parthians could never be beaten and forever established the eastern most boundaries of the Roman Empire to be far from any further challenge from the mighty Parthians and Sassanids. The Sassanid Empire which was merely an extension of the Parthian (Persian) Empire and was recognized as the most powerful power in the region for over 400 years.

      Today, the regions of Babylon, Medo-Persia and much of the Grecian Empires speak Arabic and worship the Arabic moon god named Allah. Why is this? Because they were crushed by the Islamic Empire. Why do they not speak Latin? Because the Islamic Empire crushed what Rome cold not.

      Your claim that the word “crush” simply means “spoil”. Yet you ignore the glaring fact that the Kingdom of Jesus comes back and it will “crush” all of the others. Your effort to change or limit the meaning of the word is shameful.

      The fourth Kingdom of Daniel 2 and 7 that crushes all of the others is not Rome. As Joel Richardson has explained, the Roman Empire was a nation building empire of the ancient world. They did not crush, but added infrastructure: Roads, aqueducts, law, order. Islam had always erased pervious cultures as it crushes and grinds the residue with its feet.

  • dneuwen

    it says it will crush all the other kingdoms but it does not necessarily mean occupy all their combined geographical borders. this fourth kingdom which is correctly the roman empire shall definitely be revived in the end-times represented furthermore as the beast of revelation 13 and 17 prior to Christ’s second coming. note the beast of revelation suffered a mortal wound which the roman empire did when it fell in 476 ad and now it is said to be revived for the last time in our time comprised of ten horns or ten kings (ten nations). it was also described as sitting on seven hills ie rome with a woman named mystery Babylon which is a false church straddling and wielding power over it. remember too the two legs of iron that would represent the western part of the roman empire with capital in rome and the eastern portion with constantinople as its capital. daniel 2 statue is synonymous with the beasts in Daniel 7 and the 4th one which corresponds to the iron legs is depicted as a strange beast with ten horns signifying the ten revivals of the roman empire. the first three horns were uprooted (herulis , visigoths , vandals(?)) and replaced by a new horn with eyes and mouth which speaks blasphemy against God. I leave to the readers to understand for themselves who this political and religious power was who also persecuted and killed many saints throughout history. suffice it to say, the six other horns or revivals had come to pass. and we are now awaiting the ten and final revival of the roman empire rising from the current EU which will again be led by Germany (modern assyria), a rerun of the immediately preceding revival of the holy roman empire under hitler and mussolini. in a nutshell, many prophecies regarding the fourth kingdom do not match your hypothesis it is the islamic power. interestingly, the islamic kingdom is also mentioned in Daniel albeit it is referred to as the king of the south in the later passages of Daniel 11 that will push against the king of the north which is again another metaphor for the later-day and last rival of the roman empire that is the fourth kingdom.

    • This is another place where Islam winds up fitting much better than the Roman Empire. In 1924 the Ottoman Empire fell and suffered a mortal wound. In 1928 the Muslim Brotherhood was formed with the goal of putting it all back together again. The Muslim Brotherhood is actively creating another Caliphate in the Middle East before our very eyes.

      Islam is the Beast, not the Roman Empire.

  • JimNEPA2_0

    A few things to remember about the statue 1.) It is of one man which represents one thing: Man’s Age of Misrule. 2.) It is all one piece from head to foot, meaning that, although the metals change, there are no gaps. It continues to this day. 3.) The feet are of clay and iron mixed together. It will compromise itself by mixing strength with weakness, or by trying to bind together peoples with conflicting ideologies. (Why is it, you may ask, that a seemingly liberal president like Obama, a hero to gays and potheads, ALSO aligns himself with Muslims who stone homosexuals and, at their strictest, abstain from intoxicants?) Their temporary union will fall apart and they will make world-threatening war on each other until the Messiah returns to stop them.

  • David Wells

    The usual rubbish spouted above, trying to turn attention away from Rome and the papacy. Heard it all before.

    Firstly, A “world power” may be defined as the one that stands above all the rest, invincible, not necessarily actually governing the whole known world. So I don’t know why you think that the 4th power would have to govern all the areas that were part of the previous 3.
    Rome was simply the ‘world power’ at the time. Standing above all the rest.

    Secondly, below is a commentary I found on verse 40 that makes much more sense than the stuff above. God bless you all and hope you all find the truth.

    40. Fourth kingdom. This is not the later, divided stage of Alexander’s empire, but the next empire, which conquered the Macedonian world. Daniel elsewhere represents the Hellenistic monarchies, the divisions of Alexander’s empire, by the Grecian goat’s four horns (ch. 8:22), not by a separate beast (compare the four heads of the leopard; see on ch. 7:6).

    It is obvious that the kingdom that succeeded the divided remnants of the Macedonian Empire of Alexander was what Gibbon has aptly called the “iron monarchy” of Rome, though it was not a monarchy at the time it first became the leading world power. Early Rome was settled, long before the traditional date of 753 b.c., by Latin tribes who had come into Italy in successive waves about the time other related Indo-European tribes had settled in Greece. From about the 8th to the 5th century the Latin city-state was ruled by neighboring Etruscan kings. Roman civilization was strongly influenced by the Etruscans, who came to Italy in the 10th century, and especially by the Greeks, who arrived two centuries later.

    About 500 b.c. the Roman state became a republic, and remained a republic for nearly 500 years. By 265 b.c. all Italy was under Roman control. By 200 b.c. Rome had emerged victorious from the life-and-death struggle with her powerful North African rival Carthage (originally a Phoenician colony). Henceforth Rome was mistress of the western Mediterranean, and more powerful than any of the states in the east, although she had not yet come to grips with them. From then on Rome first dominated and then absorbed, in turn, the three surviving kingdoms of Alexander’s successors (see on ch. 7:6), and thus became the next great world power after Alexander’s. This fourth empire was the longest lived and most extensive of the four, stretching in the 2d Christian century from Britain to the Euphrates. For a parallel prophecy see on ch. 7:7.

    Breaketh in pieces. All that we have been able to reconstruct of Roman history confirms this description. Rome won her territory by the force or the fear of her armed might. At first she intervened in international affairs in a struggle for her life against her rival, Carthage, and was drawn into war after war. Then, crushing one opponent after another, she finally became the aggressive, irresistible conqueror of the Mediterranean world and Western Europe. At the beginning of the Christian Era and a little later, the iron might of the Roman legions stood back of the Pax Romana—the Roman peace. Rome was the largest and strongest empire the world had hitherto known.

    • LoveJesus

      David,

      Your entire comment is rubbish. The only reason you say that Rome stood above the others is because you are an American, who traces your roots and history back through Rome. You have a Rome-centered Western view of history. The Parthians could never be beaten by Rome and was by far their greatest equal. But as Right Scoop points out, which you ignore, is that the Scriptures say that the fourth Empire would Crush Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece. Rome did not. So you can spout your biased view all you wish, it does not align with the requirements set forth in Scripture.

      • LoveJesus

        Also, the notion that Rome “crushed” the peoples she conquered is silly. Simply assuming them under your territory is not crushing. The fourth beast crushes the residue with its feet. No. The Romans entered, assumed control, demanded taxes, and then gave then roads, law, aqueducts, and even protection. When the conquering Islamic hoards entered lands, they burnt villages, took the booty and woman and moved on. The ripped the crosses from Churches and turned them into mosques. The Romans allowed the Jewish Temple to thrive during their time, until the Jews rebelled that is. The Romans were quite tolerant for an ancient empire. Not Islam. Open your eyes man.

        • David Wells

          Hi Jim.
          Thanks for assuming I am American.
          I am not. 🙂

          You seem to want to look into scriptures at things that are not there.
          To suggest that Babylon was the 1st kingdom mentioned, then Medo-Persia was the 2nd. Greece the 3rd. Then to NOT believe that Rome (who followed Greece) is NOT the 4th power is ridiculous.

          Babylon was succeeded by Medes and Persians.
          Medes and Persians then succeeded by Greece.
          Greece succeeded by Rome.
          The Bible makes it easy to follow.
          To suggest otherwise is over-complicating the Bible and then throwing in private interpretation, which the Bible clearly warns against in a number of places, including 2nd Peter 1.

          So as you ended your comments, I will copy your sentiments.
          Open your eyes, man. 🙂

          • LoveJesus

            If one is sitting in Babylon, after Greece came the Parthians, not Rome. You only say that rome naturally follows Greece because you are a westerner and cannot imagine that any other part of the world or worldview exists. But I have something to tell you. The Bible was not written for Americans, Brits, or westerners in general. This prophecy was given to Nebuchadnezzar, ruler of Babylon, and it speaks of the empires that would succeed his. Rome never succeeded or conquered Babylon, Trajans little stint into that region is far from the crushing that the text requires. Dill weed.

            • sno_warrior

              Rome IS Babylon (papal rome)… or at least it is ‘one third’ of the ‘false trinity’ which make up Babylon.

              • David Wells

                Jim you are talking nonsense. I will leave it at that as I am not one to get into name calling games.
                If you want a proper debate, please let me know.
                God bless.

                • David Wells

                  Sorry, meant to reply to Jim,

  • sno_warrior

    There are many different opinions on the subject of the Antichrist – who he is? Where he is from? Is he in the world now? When will he appear, ect.?

    The Bible answers all these questions unequevically – if you let the Bible interpret the Bible. Scripture must agree with Scripture for it to be Biblical. The Bible will not contradict itself!

    To get a clear understanding of Daniel, you have to study Revelation also. They are the ‘two prophetic books’ that go hand in glove. One explains the other and vice versa. But you CANNOT have preconceived ideas. You have to have an open mind and a willingness to let the Holy Spirit lead you into ‘truth’.

    If you believe the Hal Lindsey version or the ‘Left Behind’ series, about the Second Coming of Christ, and the Antichrist, then your mind is very possibly closed to further truth. You have been deceived by the great deceiver. (By the way, you will find both Hal Lindsey and Tim LaHaye in the ‘fiction’ section of the bookshelf.) Many are so concieted in their own opinion that they have no need to sit down and have a series of Bible Studies on issues that would determine their eternal destiny. They know ALL THEY NEED TO KNOW! Yea, right!?

    It’s unfortunate that Christ will have to say to some in the day of His returning, “I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness [work iniquity, KJV].” Matthew 7:13-14. Oh that they would take the time NOW to study the Word of God before it’s too late. Ten Virgins…five were WISE and five were FOOLISH. Let us be among the WISE!

    • David Wells

      Amen Sno_warrior. Some sense on here at last.

  • Narrow Pather

    This is so easy… what does Daniel 9:26& 27 tell us about ‘the prince that shall come’ aka the anti-Christ? Daniel tells us he will be of the people who destroyed Jerusalem and the Second Temple in 70AD. Who was that? The Romans… under Titus. Read it yourselves:
    26) “And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
    27) And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.”

    • Narrow Pather

      Also take into consideration that sudden destruction comes in the form of war immediately after the ‘Peace Accord’ is confirmed. Only 1/6th of the Islamic confederacy survives that war (1 Thess 5:3 “For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.” & Ez 39:1-3 “Therefore, thou son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal: and I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel: and I will smite thy bow out of thy left hand, and will cause thine arrows to fall out of thy right hand.”)… so if the anti-Christ were not aligned with the wealthiest government on earth ie., the Vatican/Rome, then he would be easily overthrown by the ‘then’ majority. No, he will need a powerful military to carry out his intentions… one like NATO.

  • Let’s see. The prophecy talks about three successive empires – Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece. Three successive empires, then the prophecy jumps nearly a thousand years to say Islam is the fourth empire? Kinda hard to swallow, although I will agree that the very last Empire will be Islamic.