Oxford-affiliated medical ethicists equate killing “morally irrelevant” newborns with abortion

As Iowahawk pointed out, this report comes with good news and bad news. The good news is that two medical ethicists at Oxford are now on record saying that the killing of newborn babies is really no different than regular abortions. The bad news – and you might want to sit down before reading this – is they believe this means killing newborn babies can sometimes be justified, such as in cases when the child has a condition like Down’s Syndrome and therefore might pose an a “unbearable burden” to the family, or to the state when the state provides the healthcare.



Frightening stuff.

The article, published in the Journal of Medical Ethics, says newborn babies are not “actual persons” and do not have a “moral right to life”. The academics also argue that parents should be able to have their baby killed if it turns out to be disabled when it is born.

The journal’s editor, Prof Julian Savulescu, director of the Oxford Uehiro Centre for Practical Ethics, said the article’s authors had received death threats since publishing the article. He said those who made abusive and threatening posts about the study were “fanatics opposed to the very values of a liberal society”.

The article, entitled “After-birth abortion: Why should the baby live?”, was written by two of Prof Savulescu’s former associates, Alberto Giubilini and Francesca Minerva.

They argued: “The moral status of an infant is equivalent to that of a fetus in the sense that both lack those properties that justify the attribution of a right to life to an individual.”

Rather than being “actual persons”, newborns were “potential persons”. They explained: “Both a fetus and a newborn certainly are human beings and potential persons, but neither is a ‘person’ in the sense of ‘subject of a moral right to life’.

“We take ‘person’ to mean an individual who is capable of attributing to her own existence some (at least) basic value such that being deprived of this existence represents a loss to her.”

As such they argued it was “not possible to damage a newborn by preventing her from developing the potentiality to become a person in the morally relevant sense”.

The authors therefore concluded that “what we call ‘after-birth abortion’ (killing a newborn) should be permissible in all the cases where abortion is, including cases where the newborn is not disabled”.

They also argued that parents should be able to have the baby killed if it turned out to be disabled without their knowing before birth, for example citing that “only the 64 per cent of Down’s syndrome cases” in Europe are diagnosed by prenatal testing.

Once such children were born there was “no choice for the parents but to keep the child”, they wrote.
“To bring up such children might be an unbearable burden on the family and on society as a whole, when the state economically provides for their care.”

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ClydeHady
Guest
ClydeHady

This should have been, if it was not, expected. The killing of anything has little to do with the killing itself, but everything to do with the justification. Reasons, excuses and situations look to justify an injustice, good and proper need no justification. Reasons, excuses and situations become easier to find, as we move ever closer due to previous actions. True personal responsibility is the only cure. An extremely hard medicine to subscribe, administer, and accept.

Joel Cruz
Guest
Joel Cruz

“You, O LORD, will keep them;
You will preserve him from this generation forever.
The wicked strut about on every side
When vileness is exalted among the sons of men.”

– Psalm 12:7-8

unclesamnephew
Guest
unclesamnephew

as defined by Satan. pure evil. here is what God Almighty says in ps 139 v13
for you created my immost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb. from conception you had the right to life

Sentinel
Member
Sentinel

Just another example of the growing moral depravity of this nation. God will stop shedding his grace on us if this doesn’t stop immediately. This is sick, twisted, evil progressivism at it’s finest.

NYGino
Editor
NYGino

A liberal’s dream, sometime in the not too distant future:

“Honey, our child is 18 months old now and I’m a little concerned with the progress she is making. Her vocabulary could be better, she’s not as attentive as I would like and she has this habit of being easily distracted at times. In my opinion there’s only one thing to do”

“Yes dear, I see your point.”

Michael73501
Guest
Michael73501

“…both lack those properties that justify the attribution of a right to life to an individual.”

What arrogance! Attempting to play God! By their definition, how many YEARS will it take before the attribution of the right to live would be given to a new “potential person’?
And who will bestow that right?

That right is given by God Himself!

What else should we expect though, from academia self-appointed elitists who know so little about life and living itself. Academia sycophytes, who would wet themselves at the burning of a book, say a Koran, but offer disdain and disinterest at the murder of a child.

whitewolf2009
Member
whitewolf2009

Is there no depth of depravity and soullessness that the Liberal mind will not plunge! Every time I think they can’t get worse… They do. I’ve come to the conclusion that liberalism is a form of mental illness. It’s the only explanation I can come to.

MarkD
Member
MarkD

As someone with a grandson with Down’s Syndrome this really makes me almost speechless with anger. Of course, it’s the obvious next stop on the slippery slope. Once you condition yourself to see nothing wrong with murdering unborn babies and once you accept that the state is there to play parent (because the states welfare system is specifically designed to destroy families) and for the state to play parent it requires ever increasing taxation, then why wouldn’t you make the leap and advocate infanticide?

Makes me want to vomit.

PChandler
Guest
PChandler

Yep, the domino effect.

J.
Guest
J.

Oh, the tragedy that anyone should have to bear a burden in this life. The burden of raising a disabled child, the burden of providing for yourself and family, the burden of paying for your contraception. When will these leftists wake up to the fact that life is full of burdens, problems, sadness, and loss? You cannot make heaven on earth no matter how many laws you pass.

“Come to me, all you who labor and are heavily burdened, and I will give you rest.” Matthew 11:28

whitewolf2009
Member
whitewolf2009

Didn’t NObama say something a while about about how he wouldn’t want his daughter “burdened with a child” This kind of liberal thinking expressed in the article goes deep.

Travis Pierson
Guest
Travis Pierson

I think the word he actually used was “punished.” The fact that the “punishment” would have been his grandchild seems to have escaped him. But then, nobody has ever accused the left of having a clear view of the big picture.

whitewolf2009
Member
whitewolf2009

Thanks for correcting me Travis, it is “punished.” My bad memory.

whitewolf2009
Member
whitewolf2009

This seems to come right out of the Nazi plans for a “master race” killing off what and who they saw as “inferior” Sick!!! Sick!!! Sick!!!!

Locks
Member
Locks

Ah so then abortion IS killing babies, if …” the killing of newborn babies is really no different than regular abortions.”

I don’t know why Liberals are in favor of killing future tax payers. These murdered babies are needed for their wealth redistribution schemes, funding welfare, etc. The Social Security Ponzi scheme might still be workable but for all the baby killings over the last quarter century.

NCHokie02
Guest
NCHokie02

I”m sure these are the same type of people who believe that we “rape” the earth for minerals and agriculture and that killing young animals for food such as veal is a horrible thing. They believe that a dog shouldn’t be beaten and tortured yet they are fine with people killing newborns because they don’t want the “burden”. Well guess you should have thought of that before you had sex. And what doctor would do this? I’m sure there are ones out there but honestly. So you just gave birth, you feel the child…hear the child, see the child, smile at it….and then the doctor says ok we’ll I’m going to go take care of this for you. He walks out of the room with your child in hand and you know he is going to kill it. What woman would be ok with this???? Maybe you are ok with… Read more »

PChandler
Guest
PChandler

I’m sure these are the same type of people… —

Yes, they’re part of the same ideological spectrum.

denbren52
Guest
denbren52

It seems we have picked up tremendous momentum as we continue down the slippery slop into the abyss. I guess killing 574,000 plus innocent babies since Roe v Wade is just not enough “progress” for “progressives”. They need to beef up those numbers. To these evil people, a life is not a life unless it is convenient for them. It a particular human being presents an inconvenience or financial burden to them, it is perfectly OK to eliminate the inconvenience or financial burden: Babies with Downs Syndrome or any other affliction that will result in a financial burden for society or cause a family inconvenience; How about a 4 year old that is struck with Leukemia? A 16-year old struck by a car and paralyzed? A 60 year-old stroke victim who will spend the rest of her life in nursing facility? The list goes on. The most important thing we… Read more »

J
Guest
J

A nation can be judged by how it treats it weakest individuals

Travis Pierson
Guest
Travis Pierson

This makes me sick… and so very glad we DON’T have a single payer health care system here. The little guy in my profile pic came about 6 weeks early. As is common for preemies, his lungs didn’t work. The respiratory specialist said to expect him to be on CPAP and bottled O2 for a couple weeks and that he could be in the hospital up until his actual due date. He’s a tough guy, though – a real fighter. He was off CPAP in 36 hours and off O2 in 72. We brought him home only 8 days after he was born. Still, the medical bill was nearly $30k. If he’d had to stay in for the full six weeks, the bill could easily have been $200k. I can’t imagine if some government actuary had been given a say in whether he got to live, weighing my boy’s life… Read more »

p m
Guest
p m

Wow Travis – you have a beautiful little boy. And a fighter – home in 8 days!! Thank you for your eloquent and moving post, and for reciting the verses from Matthew 18 – they just couldn’t be more appropriate.

Remember, not so long ago, all those documentaries we used to see, proving that even before birth, a baby has all the attributes and intelligence, instinctual or otherwise, for fulfilling its potential? How so much research was being done relating to the miracle of birth?

We now have self-annointed masters who have no reverence for life, yet they call themselves ‘progressives’. It’s been a short and speedy journey down the road that has led to such perfidy.

What has been done can be undone, as long as we dig deep enough to cast out all of the rot, and return to honouring the instinct for life that your treasured boy represents.

Travis Pierson
Guest
Travis Pierson

Thank you. He’ll be three next month. My wife was never supposed to be able to have kids. We have one older daughter who preceded him by 9 years and we were married for 5 years before she came into the picture. Both of our kids are miracles, joyous accidents that have increased the happiness in our lives exponentially. I have no comprehension of how anyone could hurt a child, let alone show an utter disregard for their precious, innocent lives. It amazes me that people talk about the treatment of homosexuals as the civil rights issue of our day, yet those same people ignore and even encourage the slaughter of millions of innocents who have no voice and no means of defending themselves. Where are our priorities? There are glimmers of hope out there. The new ultrasound law in VA is certainly one. My new senator is another. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnRp0ybgkvI&feature=youtu.be… Read more »

3seven77
Guest
3seven77

“We take ‘person’ to mean an individual who is capable of attributing to her own existence some (at least) basic value such that being deprived of this existence represents a loss to her. As such they argued it was “not possible to damage a newborn by preventing her from developing the potentiality to become a person in the morally relevant sense”.

So being deprived of LIFE “doesn’t represent a loss” and doesn’t “damage a newborn”? What kind of monsters think like this? What’s worse is they try to hide their evil with words like “morally relevant”.

This stuff is just evil. Purely evil.

patriot077
Member
patriot077

I’m sorry, I just can’t read the convoluted justification for taking a life. Abortion is horrible enough.

First a baby in utero, then a newborn. What comes next? The elderly, the ailing, the dissident, those of lower intelligence or ability …. I’m sure some justification would be found for each circumstance that might “benefit” society.

Evil. Pure Evil.

carmtom13
Guest
carmtom13

They are really sick people. A life is a life. They sound like Hitler.

sjmom
Member
sjmom

There is no other word for these kind of ethics but evil. Every life is precious to God who created us.

911Infidel
Member
911Infidel

When did we reach the point where the unborn were suddenly “an unbearable burden or a “punishment” as Barack the court jester said? Welcome to Obamaworld where each and every individual is there own moral agent. Where eugenicists get to decide who lives and who dies by passing their god-like judgement of who is worthy of life and who is not. First these empty souls sacrifice their children to Molech. What’s next? A Hitlerian pogrom against the disabled and the old? So 50 million dead is not enough to satiate your bloodlust? What exactly will satiate your bloodlust to your gods anyways, medical ethnicists? I’m waiting for right-thinking people to speak as one and say collectively: “There is a price we will not pay. There is a line we will not cross” I’m still waiting. There’s no way that God can rest too much longer. His scunion will be swift… Read more »

Sean Johnson
Guest
Sean Johnson

Is anyone suprised at this? This was always the next step after abortion.

GeorgiaPeachie
Guest
GeorgiaPeachie

“both lack those properties that justify the attribution of a right to life to an individual.”

How long before they say the same thing about old people? The same “logic” applies.

With Feds now in control of our VERY LIVES via obamacare, everyone had better DEMAND REPEAL.

p m
Guest
p m

“both lack those properties that justify the attribution of a right to life to an individual.”

There is only who may attribute the right to life – the Creator of that life. And I don’t mean the parents.

This is not surprising considering the appalling callousness of the National health Service in the UK – created by the socialists, sorry, communists. Time we started calling these bast-rds what they are.

denbren52
Guest
denbren52

Do you seriously think this is limited to the UK? Our “progressive” President, while he was still a state senator (or whatever he was), fought for an abortionist’s right to be able to kill a baby born after a botched late-term abortion. He wanted to codify infanticide. Do you think his health care plan will allow the government to pick up the financial burden of caring for someone like my granddaughter who needs an orphan drug to stay alive even though she looks and acts like a normal 8 year old? This mind-set is firmly entrenched in the “progressives” right here in our own country.

p m
Guest
p m

If only it were limited to the UK, the chances of winning the fight might be better. Of course it’s not, and yes, it is as firmly entrenched here in Canada, which is why we hate to see the US going down the same path unless ozero is stopped in November 2012. My point is that they are so far down that road in the UK that even a so-called centre for ethics could come up with such bile and not be thought out of line. As for the callousness of the UK system, my family has had too much first-hand experience of it to wish it on others. Yes, indeed, I was aware of BHO’s attempts in the Illinois state senate to legalize partial birth abortion when he was trying to do it, and posted the fact on numerous blogs then, as well as when he was running in… Read more »

PChandler
Guest
PChandler

Comunism, nazism and fascism are socialist ideologies, socialism is intrinsically a leftist dogma.  It’s no surprise that these liberals, self-described progressives think and act just like their comrades from 50 years ago. Comunists promoted slavic superiority and nazis promoted teutonic & nordic superiority, both advocated and advanced their eugenics programmes, resulting in the deaths of around 38 million people, 32 million massacred by communism and 6 million by nazism -Lenin/Stalin, Hitler era-. And lets not even talk about the genocide commited by comunism in China, it’s still ongoing and with Mao alone more than 65 million people were massacred. Nazis called the fit lebensborn and their land lebensraum; The invasion of Norway wasn’t just about heavy water for their early nuclear program, Norway was and is home of blue eyed blonds and that was just about enough for the lebensborn eugenics program http://j.mp/xYtpEI http://bit.ly/xMSsto And fastforward to 2012 and now this dunning-kruger… Read more »

TJ
Guest
TJ

Please take a listen to this old Christian song by blind musician Bob Ayala, Who’ll Be the Next to Go? http://www.broadjam.com/artists/songs.php?artistID=34150&mediaID=358001

This story in the UK Right Scoop posted is a fast forward of the slippery path America is now on. There is a movie that went viral on you tube- 180 movie… a documentary with a twist that got some people thinking- it goes along with this sad, sad story pretty well.

KenInIL
Member
KenInIL

Are these two ethicist’s past the “newborn” state yet, can they be aborted?

Jasper Silvis
Guest
Jasper Silvis

They have it backwards. It should read “abortion is like killing a baby”. They had the order wrong.

Oh, and by the way, how would PETA and the left feel if I killed a newborn puppy or panda or polar bear?

So according to the left, I can go to jail for killing a newborn puppy but I would be sneered if I did the awful thing of letting a disabled newborn baby live.

Like I always say, America is a Christian nation with a secular government. Once we lose sight of that, of the fact that our culture is based on Christian values, we will end up like Britain. Yikes!

toongoon
Guest
toongoon

Peta euthanizes 92% of the cats and dogs they bring in. They have no moral obligation to life at all, just another pro-death liberal, progressive, commie group.

http://www.aolnews.com/2010/03/09/petas-euthanasia-rates-have-critics-fuming/

Jasper Silvis
Guest
Jasper Silvis

Yes, but PETA has moral superiority, didn’t you know that? They can kill a puppy; I can’t. But I can kill a baby. Wow, the left’s logic is fascinating, like a baby’s. Wait, does that mean what I think it means?

toongoon
Guest
toongoon

HAH!! Yeah right, but I wouldn’t call it logic. Pure evil.

ApplePie101
Guest
ApplePie101

Isn’t this the same policy the Nazi Party advocated?

Joe
Guest
Joe

I saw this earlier – It is disgusting and pathetic

My son and his girlfriend just had a Baby Girl – My Granddaughter (3mos.)

A close “advisor” suggested the Mother have an abortion –

She said no way!

I can’t tell you how proud I am of my son and his girlfriend for making that decision
and how wonderfully they are caring for that beautiful gift from God who was recently baptized

I wish I could post a photo – She’s a beauty and I know she will be well cared for

’nuff said

toongoon
Guest
toongoon

Congratulations Joe, you look like a proud grandpa. smile

Joe
Guest
Joe

Sure am –

I wish I could post photo

She always makes me smile

toongoon
Guest
toongoon

It is great. I got two with two more in the ovens.

Joe
Guest
Joe

Great news !

Travis Pierson
Guest
Travis Pierson

Congratulations! I had a similar experience when my wife got pregnant in her late 30s. My mom was excited to announce the pending arrival of her next (and probably last) grandchild and told a great aunt who is a total prog. She replied, “Your daughter in law is so old. She’s not going to keep it, is she?” When my son was born, she didn’t send a card or anything. We haven’t spoken since. I imagine she’s somewhat embarrassed.

denbren52
Guest
denbren52

My great-grandfather was 64 years old when my grandfather was born. Not sure how old my great-grandmother was but I’m guessing she may have been 15 years younger. I can’t imagine a world without the scores of people descended from this child produced so late in life. 30-something is too old???

Travis Pierson
Guest
Travis Pierson

Silly, huh? My father-in-law is the youngest of 6 and there’s a 30 year gap between him and the oldest. Most of my wife’s cousins on her father’s side are pretty close to my parents’ age. My mom was the oldest of 7, so I have cousins that are the same age as my kids.

When we found out my wife was pregnant, we decided to name the baby after my grandmother, Patricia (great aunt Prog’s sister) who passed away earlier that year. When we found out the name would probably get HIM teased, we gave him the middle name Patrick. Another thing aunt Prog probably doesn’t know.

BSScoop
Member
BSScoop

Nothing shocks me any more. The moment I realized that leftism is not simply a wrong alternative to my right wing beliefs and is actually evil and Godless, I no longer get surprised by new depths of depravity.

May God have mercy on their souls.

BS
Don’t Tread On Me

Joe
Guest
Joe

Silly Scoop

When will you learn?? – They have NO SOULS

They are NOT FROM this PLANET

Better put on my foil hat now

(I am really starting to believe it)

Dan
Guest
Dan

this is also the same kind of reasoning that made Jews expendable or Children who..to them.. are not perfect or useful expendable…is it possible this SOB in Chief is darting down the road towards Concentration Camps and Re-education Camps for those who don’t agree with This Government….ME THINKS WE HAVE BEEN DOWN THIS ROAD BEFORE—IT DIDN’T END WELL———-

XXIIFan
Guest
XXIIFan

This kind of thing scares the crap out of me. I can’t imagine thinking things like this much less putting them in print. What has our country come to?

Joe
Guest
Joe

We must take it back!

PChandler
Guest
PChandler

Franklin D. Roosevelt had the guillain barre syndrome, he should have been on the list cause he was a burden to everyone around him, especially his family.

Travis Pierson
Guest
Travis Pierson

And he remains a burden to us still today. How many trillions of our debt can be directly traced to FDR era policies?

barney59
Guest
barney59

There must be reincarnation because these two guys are sharing Dr. Mengele

K-Bob
Editor
K-Bob

Thanks for catching this, Dan.

Once folks buy into the concept of “the common good,” then it can be used to justify any level of evil.

I wonder if they include “being gay” in their laundry list of imperfections. Baldness? I think they can test for that gene now. Hugh Hewitt’s good buddy, the late Dean Barnett (writer for the Weekly Standard) had cystic fibrosis. Should he have been “let go,” so we’d never have his 38 years off life lived to the fullest?

These “ethicists” are clearly a danger to themselves. Perhaps they should have been put on “the list,” as well.

Travis Pierson
Guest
Travis Pierson

So true. Mao killed what, seventy or eighty million people to bring communism to China? The destruction of so many human lives was a cost he justified because he truly believed he could lead China to a perfect society. Even worse, he said he was willing to kill half a billion if that’s what it took. At the time, that would have been about 75% of the population. When a person claims to be doing a thing which will be for the greater good, you can bet he believes the ends justify any means, no matter how brutal.

Dan
Guest
Dan

this is right up The SOB in Chiefs alley and The SOB in Chief will be the first to incorporate it…you know those pesky humans ARE the problem….intrinsically the cause of all evil in the world…Of course this is only pertaining to the people of America….and remember The SOB in Chief is on the job implementing this right now OBAMACARE—WE HAD TO PASS IT TO FIND OUT WHAT IS IN IT……………..

PChandler
Guest
PChandler

… killing newborn babies can sometimes be justified, such as in cases when the child… might pose an a “unbearable burden” to the family—

So if i think liberalism is an “unbereable burden” to the family, can people go about killing any liberals they see on the streets -Grand Theft Auto style- or is it just ok to assasinate the unborn/newborn ones -if somehow their political future can be predicted-?.

Only a pathological sociopath justifies the unjustifiable and defends the undefendable.

Joe
Guest
Joe

They are sociopaths !

PunditPawn
Guest
PunditPawn

Yea, that argument will fly. Only a liberal could twist and contort language so far beyond recognition and comprehension and then have the audacity to pronounce it ‘ethics.’

Is_Sense_Common
Member
Is_Sense_Common

Liberals are the antithesis of reason. They take all sensibilities known to humankind and turn them on their ear. They delight in evil and force counter-intuitive notions upon the righteous. They are a shameful cancer on our society.

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