Trump defends his trade war with China in tirade of tweets this morning…

This morning Trump has taken to Twitter to defend his trade war with China and he apparently has a lot to say.

Up to this point he’s tweeted 10 times already this morning and you can read them below:



There’s a lot that Trump said here, but clearly he’s suggesting to China that a deal will be made when he’s ready to make it and not before. I don’t know if he’s right about the steel industry floursing, but I don’t like that he put the high steel tariffs on our allies and then refused to remove them. I may be wrong, but I believe those 25% tariffs are still in place.

In any event, it’s a different animal with China. He’s certainly geared up for this fight but China is talking tough too, suggesting they won’t back down from this trade war.

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Louisiana_Native
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Louisiana_Native

I guess I could tweet 50 times I want a million dollars. But reality soon proves, that it’s not possible…..

Don Sutherland
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Don Sutherland

With regard to President Trump’s tweet concerning the Federal Reserve, it should be noted that the Federal Reserve will remain committed to its dual employment and inflation mandate. It will make decisions based on macroeconomic data, not political preferences. It won’t make the kind of grievous errors made by the Arthur Burns-led Fed that put political considerations ahead of macroeconomic developments in pursuing an overly accommodative policy that contributed substantially to the stagflation of the late 1970s.

Conserve 58
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Conserve 58

The fact that Trump is dealing with a communist country is going unnoticed.

Drkjk
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Drkjk

Tariffs, how to tax your own people and make it look like the other guy’s people are paying for it.

AT
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AT

Make your product at home in the USA and there is no Tariff.

No, just artificial overhead, because America hates its producers. Yay, now you’ve f*cked the consumers – ie. us regular folk – on both ends. Artificial cost of goods increase because of tariffs, or artificial cost of goods increase because of sh*tty American policy – your “choice”. Thanks Donald. Thanks right to hell.

Notice the amount of “choices” we’re getting these days that aren’t actually choices? Think that’s what the founders had in mind for their free society?

We have GOT to get these progressives out of power. Whether they’re progressive left or progressive right. What the hell was wrong with everyone in 2008, 2012, 2016…. 2020.

Abe Lincoln
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Abe Lincoln

Yaaaawwwn

TomNewman64
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TomNewman64

because America hates its producers

This is a very poorly thought out argument, and frankly is beneath you. I know you just throw a lot of stuff against the wall, but you should try for some degree of intellectual honesty each time. To just say “America hates its producers” is not something you’d be able to back up with evidence other than a few isolated incidents. In fact, buying locally and buying from American producers is still a fairly strong ethic among Americans, and is growing stronger in some ways (such as local food sourcing).

AT
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AT

Wanna bet?

Buying something that says “Made in the USA” is easy.

Voting for politicians and for policies that take away your freebies, luxuries, and decadence as an American worker, and allowing producers to operate under capitalist free-market policies that encourage production, profit, growth, expansion, invention, and innovation is a lot harder. America doesn’t want to do that. They want their $15/hr, collective bargaining, six months off for childbirth, mandatory health coverage, and union protection against (and unemployment benefits despite) termination for cause. And then, on top of all that, they want to nickel and dime tax, regulate, oversee, and enjoin anytime they possibly can.

That shows nothing but contempt and hatred for America’s producers, as we try to levy all that on their backs – which then they shrug off to the consumer market to try and remain solvent.

tyman
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tyman

Trump knew how much American producers are hated, so he and Melania had their clothing line made in China.

AT, I’ve been thinking about the factories too. Look at all of the red tape US companies have to go through to build a factory; building codes, and everything else that Chinese companies don’t have to worry about.
That affects the cost of a product as well.
It’s crazy when you think of all the complaining about China this or that, when the US has done a lot of this to itself by not being competitive.

I’m just not sure 8 years for a POTUS is enough to reverse all of this…I don’t care who he is.
I’m not saying we shouldn’t try, but to believe that a trade war with China will be easy to win is simply fantasy.

kong1967
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kong1967

Avatartyman This is the first argument I have seen that dismisses China’s practices because our government needs to fix things here. In no way does that justify what China does.

tyman
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tyman

Gadzooks…where did I dismiss what China did? All I suggested is that China wouldn’t be where it is if the US didn’t drop the ball somewhere along the way…and we have.

So the US is blameless in all of this?

The Japanese got a stronghold in the US auto market because of the UAW and American manufacturers built horrible cars.

kong1967
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kong1967

It’s crazy when you think of all the complaining about China this or that, when the US has done a lot of this to itself by not being competitive.

China sells it’s steel below cost so they can dominate the market. They are violating the rules of the WTO. They cheat. I don’t understand your argument that the U.S. dropped the ball.

A lot of the problem is that other countries export a lot of product to us but they are not so open to U.S. goods being sold in their own countries.

These are things that need to change, and we cannot control other countries not opening up their markets for fair trade.

Conserve 58
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Conserve 58

Avatartyman Trump told you why the ball was dropped and who dropped the ball. From G.H.W.B to Obama they capitulated with China. Between our political leaders, their corporate cronies and the labor unions so many of our companies have outsourced their manufacturing to China and other countries because of their cheep labor.

Yes, it is difficult to find anything with a ‘made in America’ label on it. However, the ‘made in China’ label means inferior products.

Take golf clubs for instance. No American golf manufacturer forges their own clubs anymore. The Chinese manufacture all major brands of golf clubs with the exception of Mizuno. The Chinese are also guilty of flooding the market with cheap knock-offs which in turn hurts sales for the major brands.

The Chinese need to be dealt with because they have been stealing everything from us to build their economy and their military.

kong1967
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kong1967

Conserve 58Conserve 58 Additionally, it doesn’t matter if we dropped the ball in the past. Trump is trying to correct it now. I understand their concerns with the tactics being used, but if they think we can force China to change it’s practices without it impacting us as well they’re mistaken. China will retaliate no matter what tactic we use to get them to comply with international law and the WTO.

Louisiana_Native
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Louisiana_Native

“Trump is trying to correct it now”

Yeah? Really? Tariffs?

All I had to do was google tariffs, to find out its never a good idea. Never has been. Maybe trump should google…….since he obviously doesnt know what the hell he is doing. I bet Ted Cruz’ policies wouldnt include tariffs. But he is a REAL conservative, so thats understandable 2024 #itaintover

kong1967
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kong1967

AvatarLouisiana_Native It doesn’t matter if you disagree with his tactics to correct unfair trade practices. He’s trying to correct it, and I neither supported or rejected the idea.

I don’t like tariffs either, but we don’t have a lot of options to get China to comply. The entire free world agrees that China cheats and Europe will soon join the effort after negotiations are complete with them. You have any better solutions Einstein?

The efforts have gotten Canada, Mexico, and the EU to come to the table to renegotiate, so Trump has had some successes using this tactic.

We have been warned of becoming dependent on China. We should have started moving away from them a long time ago.

AT
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AT

Nobody’s saying don’t deal with China.

But if we don’t clean our own house as well, and at the same time, it’s all for naught.

We don’t just have to make China lose. We have to make America win. Making both sides lose accomplishes nothing.

tyman
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tyman

Thank you, AT!

I’m not by any means absolving China of the blame…they’re a communist country for goodness sake! That’s what makes me so mad, that a communist country had an opportunity to become such an economic powerhouse.

When I say the US dropped the ball, I mean that by everything the liberals did to weaken the US came back to bite us! That coupled with horrible design from American car manufacturers, etc. just left the door wide open for Japan, and then China to do what they did.

I remember back in the 80s as a teenager the quality of stereo equipment that came out of Japan was awesome! But then Japan got too expensive, so production got shifted to China.

AT
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AT

That coupled with horrible design from American car manufacturers, etc. just left the door wide open for Japan, and then China to do what they did.

The auto bailout was one of the stupidest things this country ever did.

There are four basic tenets to capitalism:

Freedom to buy.
Freedom to sell.
Freedom to try.
Freedom to fail.

That last one is really, really important. You take away any one of them and you throw a monkey in the wrench, but you take away that last one. That’s how you create government protectionism for inferior products.

kong1967
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kong1967

Avatartyman Keep in mind that those countries have been very rigid when it comes to allowing American goods into their markets. They want us to buy their sh** but they refuse to let our goods in their countries. They already practice protectionism. We can’t compete in so-called “free-trade” with countries that only pretend to do it.

China is communist, but they have implemented free markets as well. I don’t know what you’d call it but it’s a mix of communism and capitalism.

Louisiana_Native
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Louisiana_Native

Tariffs are a liberal policy, always has been. There is a democrat just scratching to get out of trump.

kong1967
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kong1967

ATAT I totally get where that argument comes from, but it’s a temporary measure that (if successful) will benefit us in a major way in the future. Sort of like a union strike (which I also don’t like). There’s pain in the beginning but if it succeeds there’s a lot gained for the long run.

I dunno if tariffs are the answer but we have very little else to use for leverage. China needs to be dealt with.

C.W. Smith
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C.W. Smith

kong1967kong1967 What makes you think this is a temporary measure? I see people saying that all the time about the Trump tariffs, but I strongly suspect otherwise.

Case in point, the EU offered to reduce their tariffs on US auto imports to zero, and Trump turned them down flat. He said that wasn’t good enough, they had to actively encourage their citizens to buy American. Which is completely insane.

kong1967
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kong1967

C.W. SmithC.W. Smith I can’t verify that it’s only a temporary measure any more than you can verify that it’s not.

It’s being used as a tactic to achieve an end and were implemented for a reason. They weren’t implemented as a general practice to be in place regardless of what other countries do. I don’t know the details of why Trump didn’t accept an offer but that doesn’t mean he won’t down the line.

In any case he’s going to have to get results or he won’t get re-elected. It’s as simple as that. He will have to prove that they work or people won’t give him another chance.

Louisiana_Native
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Louisiana_Native

I agree, but Mr 4d chess wannabe is going about it all wrong. I am truly starting to wonder if he even has a clue, or maybe he’s just winging it?

kong1967
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kong1967

AvatarLouisiana_Native He has advisors you know. It’s not like he’s sitting in the oval office asking “which button do I randomly press today?”

He has a career built out of making deals. I’d imagine he knows a hell of a lot more about it than you do.

AT
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AT

Don’t just stop at the factories. There’s also the notion that what comes out of them are magically human rights. To wit:

http://thepeoplescube.com/peoples-blog/why-socialists-need-capitalism-best-explanation-so-far-t17696.html

tyman
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tyman

You got it! The Chinese have an unfair advantage over us in that respect…how can anyone not see that? We’re just calling it what it is!

Now, if robots can be used for production, then maybe production may be shifted back to the US or Mexico.

It’s sad to think about, but the jobs that went overseas will never come back.
Consumers have gotten too used to the cheaper goods, and companies have gotten used to the profits which, by the way, are why they’re in business.

All the libs who cry about jobs going overseas don’t seem to realize that the liberal policies are a large part of why. Seriously, had they rather the companies go out of business? Losing jobs is far better than losing the whole company or industry!

AT
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AT

Hey ty, I’m going to share something with you. Mostly because you’re probably the only one who will see it at this point – but if others do, great.

It’s a decade old, but change the black man to an orange man and it’s still the same damned video.

And no, it’s not mine. The “AT” is a pure coincidence. But I can’t help but appreciate its serendipity. (That’s the kind of stuff that makes me believe in God, incidentally. That light touch of His, y’know?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flW5XNRgb4o

Enjoy.

sam
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sam

ATAT
Yup, black or orange, it’s still the same thing.

tyman
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tyman

Thanks for sharing! I saw similarities between Zero and Trump in 2016…that’s one reason I found it difficult to support him then.

I plan to vote for him in 2020, but it gets harder and harder when he does things like the trade war.

Louisiana_Native
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Louisiana_Native

Yeah, uh, I dont see any liberals crying about jobs going overseas. They basically cry about $15 min wage and cozying up to Sharia.

tyman
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tyman

I know what you mean, but they usually do it around election time. For instance, when GA Sen. David Perdue was running for his office a few years ago, he had been the CEO of Dollar General. He wasn’t my first choice, by the way.

Anyway, the libs just went nuts because he shipped jobs overseas to make more profits for the company.

TomNewman64
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TomNewman64

Which is completely different from “America hates its producers”. You just named a bunch of policies that are anti-free-labor, but policies are not people. Americans in general still appreciate our own labor, farming, and manufacturing.

AT
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AT

Who is responsible for those policies? Americans. The elected officials, and the electorate that elects them.

Policies are absolutely people, Tom. They are the direct results of our good, or bad, choices as citizens.

TomNewman64
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TomNewman64

Yes, with just a TINY assist from massive lobbying concerns and special interests. Much of what you bellyache about here is the primary platform of the Chambers of Commerce group that controls nearly all Repub economic policy. I do not consider them “the people”.

AT
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AT

You may not consider them that, but they are.

They’re the direct result of a complacent and apathetic citizenry who does not take their job as an electorate seriously, and who are slaves to binary choice.

Louisiana_Native
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Louisiana_Native

Except for the fact that it will cost more to produce in America, which empties our pockets faster. And in this economy?? We’ve gone from 4d chess, to wtf is he doing??!! Besides, after seeing his tax info, looks like we got an idiot for President. #cruz2024 #therealteaparty

Louisiana_Native
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Louisiana_Native

The last sentence was golden smile

SkeeterN
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SkeeterN

Because China is a repressive communist country that does not allow dissent they will always have that advantage over us. Even if the tariffs are more painful to them they will not have any protests or dissent while any pain over tariffs here will be met with protests and dissent.

Thomas-Aquinas
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Thomas-Aquinas

True. Tariffs always harm both sides economically, but more is at stake here. I’m glad that he’s messing with them. It might make them a little less aggressive and oppressive.

soleil
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soleil

America has a love affaire with communists, that never made sense to me.
Didn’t the old Busch start that loving relationship?

Squirrelly
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Squirrelly

FDR, Nixon (Kissinger) – Just spitballing here.

Michelle Lee
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Michelle Lee

China is the People’s Republic today because back during China’s civil war, the communists in the State Department deliberately sabotaged Chiang Kai-shek so he’d lose and have to retreat to Taiwan.

TomNewman64
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TomNewman64

He also openly stole huge amounts of money from us, claiming that he would use it to fight the Maoists, but instead simply enriched himself. Chiang Kai-shek was a money pit, and we were wise to move on from full-fledged support of him.

TomNewman64
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TomNewman64

America has a love affaire with communists, that never made sense to me

We dropped many millions of tons of bombs in Korea and Vietnam to try to keep them from becoming communist strongholds. We pushed the cold war until we broke the Soviets, despite much of Europe wanting us to capitulate. I don’t think your statement is backed up by historical fact.

kong1967
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kong1967

There’s a lot that Trump said here, but clearly he’s suggesting to China that a deal will be made when he’s ready to make it and not before.

Trump was ready to deal when China moved the goal posts, probably hoping Trump would bend. He didn’t. I’m kinda twisted on the situation. China ignores the WTO and we have little to no other recourse but to do something on our own. Everyone complains how China cheats but cry foul when something is attempted to do something about it. No pain no gain.

I hope Trump is right that it will be resolved faster than anyone thinks.

joyfulgiver
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joyfulgiver

So true! Also, for all those chicken little’s out there…NASDAQ, DOW, NYSE all in positive territory this morning. As I type the DOW has gained more than half of losses from yesterday.

kong1967
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kong1967

Avatarjoyfulgiver I had someone go on the attack with me yesterday using the stock markets as a prop. I told him that the markets always have an initial reaction and we shouldn’t put the cart before the horse.

Thomas-Aquinas
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Thomas-Aquinas

Buying opportunity. Trying to guess at the bottom.

DemocratsRFubar
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DemocratsRFubar

Perhaps I am being simplistic here. When we were in WWII, Americans buckled down and did without. I have enough stuff, I can live without the new IPhone, a new t.v., and all the other made in China crap. I’m not suffering at all. The farmers will be taken care of per President Trump, so I’m going to trust his instincts on a business plan for them. I want to see MADE IN USA again. I think the tariff is good. China has been winning the war against us. They just didn’t need their 2.3 million person army to take us over…they were doing it by putting us in debt and with cheap goods.

sam
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sam

Taxpayers have already doled out $7.7B to farmers over the last 7 months. Many are losing their farms, not buying new equipment, etc as a direct result of the tariffs. The outlook doesn’t look rosy at all for farmers.

TomNewman64
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TomNewman64

We dole out tens of billions to farmers on an annual basis. This is not a new thing brought on by Chinese tariffs.

sam
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sam

TomNewman64TomNewman64
Yes, about $20B/year. The $7.7 isn’t even included in that $20B. An excellent link, To bad everyone won’t look at it.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamandrzejewski/2018/08/14/mapping-the-u-s-farm-subsidy-1-million-club/#2679e1cc3efc

This is how Government “fixes” things with OUR money. Absolutely pathetic that we get fleeced like this.

popCulture
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popCulture

The truth is that to remain a sovereign nation we need a strong manufacturing base with individuals engaged in activities that increase our technological knowledgebase — even if this implies more expensive goods. In the end, we pay for cheap Chinese goods through a weaker defense, unemployed workers, and lower productivity, no matter what we do with tariffs.

Most people are not aware that even Adam Smith proposed tariffs in two cases: those goods necessary for defense and those goods internally taxed. These criteria apply to most of our manufacturing. Anything we manufacture has far more stringent environmental and worker protections than those of China. The absolute productive disadvantage that places on US companies needs to be compensated.

Thomas-Aquinas
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Thomas-Aquinas

The only long term cure for China is India. We don’t have enough people to compete. People are every nation’s greatest resource.

C.W. Smith
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C.W. Smith

AvatarThomas-Aquinas That’s an interesting point, care to elaborate?

Thomas-Aquinas
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Thomas-Aquinas

India is going through the free-market (or freer-market) revolution that China has gone through, although they may be about a decade behind. They may soon undercut Chinese manufacturing as China undercut US manufacturing. They will become a fairly stable democracy (republic) that will hopefully check Chinese expansionism in the Far East.

The great untold story of the past several decades is half of the world’s population, in China and India, moving out of poverty due to freer markets.

K-Bob
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K-Bob

I think there must be something to Trump’s use of tariff talk that doesn’t go the way classic economics expected. For one thing, classic economics treats tariff assignment and removal as if done by some stodgy, unaccountable bureaucratic process, similar to rules affecting tonnage, certificates, and containers. Trump is wrangling tariffs directly, like a dealmaker riffling a wad of hundred-dollar bills under the nose of a potential investor. We’re facing the destructor, and he’s crossing the streams. I think he’s trying to show that tariffs can be used like a ring in a bull’s nose, to get its attention. Then he can twist it in the direction he wants. Our economy is undoubtedly strong, despite his tariff-izin’ and sanction-izin’ ways. So he must be having impact. It’s just hard to tell what changes will have some sort of permanence, and whether it will be good or bad. I don’t think… Read more »

kong1967
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kong1967

AvatarK-Bob If they work his critics will place credit elsewhere and still accuse him of damaging our markets. In other words, our economy overcame Trump’s recklessness.

New West
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New West

While I support something has to be done with China, we need to keep in mind who the leader of China is. I feel China will hold out as the commie over there has a pile of Commies everywhere else including in our own government who want to see Trump crash. Trade wars and this will be a big one, don’t ever end well. Especially in this day and age. History tells us, that just before war, there is usually a Trade war. Being that Trumps only accomplishment is the economy, the Progressives here will make sure it crashes. And crash it will…Ugh!

tyman
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tyman

That’s all I’m saying is to not be overconfident or underestimate China. I cannot stand the fact that China became such an economic powerhouse, being a communist country. They are still bent on worldwide domination, they are just using their “army” of workers instead of a literal army to achieve it. If the Chinese have committed violations since entering the WTO, why hasn’t anything been done? If it could have been resolved, wouldn’t it already? Someone yesterday thought I was saying that China should get a pass, but nothing could be further from the truth. I was simply urging caution, especially considering that American consumers and businesses will be hurt by the tariffs. Trump has said that the trade war will be easy to win; that type of statement really frightens me that he thinks it’s just as simple as that. GoPro says that they plan to build a factory… Read more »

Paladin
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Paladin

tyman I am perceiving fear from you. Fear of raised prices and fear of China. What we have here is a situation where the big kid on the block has allowed a smaller kid to take advantage of him and unless something changes the small kid will take down the big kid. We can see China getting more beligerant and building their army already. China plays the long game and leaders declared years ago that they will have to go to war with us. We need to act now. Tariffs as a policy are stupid. Tariffs as a tool to force others to play by civil rules is another story. Something has to be done to slap China’s wrists before things get much worse. This looks like a good way to make them behave, and if it increases in country manufacturing, that’s a plus. American companies can take advantage now.… Read more »

tyman
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tyman

It’s not fear…simply being cautious that we don’t get overconfident that China will easily capitulate. Please answer this: what have we done to China? The tariffs are being paid by AMERICAN CONSUMERS. The tariffs are not hurting the Chinese. The reason they “backed out of the deal” is that they WILL NOT be subjected to an agreement that implies their wrongdoing for years, and they WILL NOT allow compliance inspections. To think that they will do this is folly. Because Trump has started it this way, American companies cannot just switch production to the US like that…if ever. China, as a communist country, has so much of an advantage over the US in terms of workers’ wages and working conditions. From building the factories cheaper to actual production, we have laws, building codes, and regulations that China simply does not have. I’m not trying to be negative, just realistic that… Read more »

Paladin
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Paladin

Avatartyman we have done a lot to China by providing our companies a chance to compete. Keep that up and China’s companies lose business while American businesses grow and that is very significant. There are things more important than getting stuff at the cheapest price possible. Sadly many Americans are too shortsighted to realize that.

tyman
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tyman

My question is how have we done this?

Again, American consumers pay the tariffs…the Chinese aren’t paying.

BTW, remember when WalMart used to run ads “Bringing it home to the USA”? When WalMart said they would buy American whenever they could.

Paladin
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Paladin

Avatartyman yes I do remember. In Fact Walmart started out as a made in America company. It’s only after the Original owner died that they started selling products made overseas.
My friend, you are so focused on the cost of the tarrifs being absorbed by consumers you are completely missing that China businesses lose their price advantage from the tarrifs, thus making American made products more desirable. There will definitely be a loss in revenue to Chinese companies that over time will lead to business transferring to non-chinese companies. That will hurt China, it’s just not instantaneous.

tyman
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tyman

What products are you speaking of that are made in both China and the US?

I just can’t think of any.

kong1967
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kong1967

AvatarNew West The question is whether China can hold out that long. Iran is trying the same thing but they have a ways to go and they’re banking on the hope that Trump loses in 2020. According to Trump it should be resolved sooner rather than later, so maybe the administration knows that China can’t hold out for long.

One thing that could get China’s attention as well is to take our trade elsewhere. There’s no question we have more leverage than they do.

New West
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New West

The real difference is who’s in control (for life) of China. And the rest are all on board…China doesn’t care about its citizens nor does it have any intention of having a capitalist country. He needs to get something positive with Europe, Canada and Mexico (Mexico having a dictator as well). Trade wars never work out well….especially punishing our ally’s…

ryan-o
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ryan-o

This ain’t going to work out for Trump, I don’t believe. Americans want their cheap crap. No matter what. China could bend each one of them over individually and they’d beg for another round.

Ciceroni Excogitatoris
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Ciceroni Excogitatoris

From Slick Willy, the Bumbler Bush 43, to Barack Hussein Obama… we were getting robbed. I’m glad Trump is finally doing something about it. It is likely China will wait and see if Trump loses in 2020 so they can keep robbing us blind under a Democrat Socialist president. Then again, US companies will start leaving China for India, Vietnam, Malaysia, etc. some may come back to the US.

tyman
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tyman

Cic, but what is it that Trump is doing? Initiating tariffs that Americans will pay? Making the Chinese mad? Trump may only have 18-20 months in office, and the Chinese can easily wait that out. Plus, the Chinese simply will not sign a trade agreement that implicates them in wrongdoing and forces them to have compliance inspections. It’s a pipe dream. As I said yesterday, China has already been building factories in countries like Vietnam, Bangladesh, etc. because Chinese wages have been going up, etc. I’m not saying it’s too late, but China has been planning for this. Maybe robotics and AI would help US companies come back, but between wages and working conditions, etc., the Chinese have an enormous advantage over us in terms of keeping costs down. The Chinese have no scruples so, for instance, a factory can be built without all of the issues that have to… Read more »

kong1967
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kong1967

Avatartyman Americans don’t have to pay the tariff. They can buy somewhere else.

So what’s the alternative? Keep doing the same ol’ same ol’ and let China rip off the world? No matter what Trump does to correct their behavior China is going to retaliate. So what’s your solution? Beg them to comply? Are we at the mercy of the Chinese government instead of the other way around?

You tout Chinese having an advantage over us when it comes to keeping the costs down. You’re defeating your own argument. They have that advantage because they cheat and we can’t compete. Yet you say let them be.

tyman
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tyman

Nowhere in my comment did I say let them be. I simply stated that we have laws and regulations that the Chinese don’t have to worry about, so the price of a good will always be more expensive here.

I’m not sure how to fix the situation. Trump thinks it’ll be quick and easy…that’s simply too naive for me, and considering the possible consequences, that’s downright irresponsible.

Please give me a list of goods made here that I can choose instead of buying a Chinese alternative.

Even Trump had his clothing line made in China.

kong1967
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kong1967

Avatartyman I’m not doing your shopping for you.

There is no easy alternative where we will not be retaliated against. No matter what we do to pressure China it will effect us in return. We have a lot of leverage on China and one way or the other we have to use it to force them to comply. They need us a lot more than we need them. We can trade somewhere else over time. Can they do the same? China relies on exports to the U.S.

tyman
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tyman

Good grief…I didn’t ask you to do my shopping.
Just offer some suggestions because I can’t think of any.

I read something the other night about Polk Audio loudspeakers. They used to build speakers in the US, but had to build them in China for various reasons.

At least you admit it won’t be easy…that’s all I’m saying. Trump and Peter Navarro need to learn that.

Honestly, I’d love to be wrong, and have the trade deal done by June, but I just don’t see how. The Chinese are prideful and will not subject themselves to humiliation by Trump.

kong1967
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kong1967

Avatartyman The shopping remark was sarcasm. If China doesn’t comply and since they ignore the WTO, the only option would be to transition our trade to other places. We shouldn’t be dependent on them. They are dependent on us and they have everything to gain by coming to an agreement because I don’t think Trump’s messing around.

tyman
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tyman

Kong, I don’t like what they’ve done any more than you do, but if China has violated WTO rules, why haven’t various nations banded together to call them on it? I think it goes back to how much power China has, and other countries don’t want to cross them. I still think that China will never make a deal that implies that they’ve committed illegal trade practices, and they certainly won’t agree to compliance inspections. As I understand it, this is why the agreement didn’t work out (from what I heard, 1/3 of the document dealt with the enforcement part, and the Chinese backtracked on it). And when Liu He came back last week, Xi made him fly commercial and he was stripped of his title, meaning that he had no authority to make a deal. Personally, I think Xi has been stringing Trump along like Kim Jong Un has.

kong1967
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kong1967

“We are totally willing to work with the United States to tackle China’s unfair practices, and we have started this work,” said one senior EU trade diplomat.

https://www.politico.eu/article/donald-trump-china-eu-trade-sees-method-in-trumps-trade-madness-china/

It also says somewhere in the article that China is afraid of the EU joining our cause. Right now the EU wants Trump to wrap it up with Europe, Canada, and Mexico before they help with China.

If China refuses to budge and the U.S. and the EU join forces they will go in a downfall. I think we should start removing trade from China and go elsewhere anyway. Something has to change.

Sentinel
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Sentinel

To me, this is the worst thing about Trump’s presidency. It seems like there might have been a better way, than to harm consumers and citizens with a trade war – though I don’t know what that would be. Bring the jobs and manufacturing back to America with incentives? Again, I get what he’s trying to do and support it but the method employed is inefficient and damaging to Americans. This has to be fixed soon imo.

kong1967
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kong1967

SentinelSentinel The single thing we have to work with on China is trade. The only way to curb their behavior is to make them hurt. I dunno if it will work but they need our markets or they’re screwed. We can always import from other places but where can they replace their exports to the U.S.?

Ronbo
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Ronbo

“Our great Patriot Farmers ” Oy vey…. this is Reich-ian talk. No need for such ridiculous talk as he already has promised to give the money we make right on over to farmers for hurting them in this tariff war. By the way, I am in the commodity trade and I can tell you as fact that American producers have simply raised their prices to the tariff price so all we have done as Americans is pay higher prices to subsidize American producers that otherwise could not compete. This is nothing but a massive tax per American worker saved or created. Nothing more/nothing less. I am not a fan of these Bernie supported tariffs and this entire trade war does NOT benefit America or the consumer. It benefits American corporations and stockholders at the expense of higher costs for all of us. Trade wars don’t work. We are lucky our… Read more »

tyman
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tyman

Ronbo, thanks for your post! Where were you yesterday? Ha, ha…Only a few others and myself on TRS dared to call the tariffs what they are: liberal policies that Americans will pay, not the Chinese. I hope I’m wrong about how this will end, but I think it’s nuts to underestimate China and their resolve. I agree about the slowdown…China can wait it out until the election. John Rutledge was an advisor to Reagan and he was on CNBC yesterday saying it is nuts to expect the Chinese to completely change their economic system based on this trade deal. He added that China will not allow any type of compliance based on a trade deal with the US. Again, as I said all day yesterday that there is NO WAY China will ever admit wrongdoing as far as IP theft and unfair trade practices since doing so would completely destroy… Read more »

kleindropper
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kleindropper

“This money will come from the massive Tariffs being paid to the United States for allowing China…” – Translation: American consumer are paying a tax to bail out farmers who’s crop will rot in silos instead of being sold. This makes about as much sense as a jobs program that pays one guy to dig hole and a 2nd to fill it back in.

kleindropper
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kleindropper

Also, it will be hard for the Fed to drop rates if Treasury bill rates skyrocket due to China dumping out of buying US debt.

tyman
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tyman

You got it!
I hear people saying that it would be silly for China to sell US Treasuries, but they are a communist country bent on worldwide domination.

To say what a communist country won’t do is what’s silly.

Trump or anyone else underestimates China at their own peril.

Michelle Lee
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Michelle Lee

They can only sell it if there’s a buyer on the other side of the trade. Treasuries going around and around the bond markets between buyers and sellers don’t affect us, the issuer. The treasuries are not collateralize like China’s Belt and Road loans so they can’t repo us.

tyman
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tyman

If there aren’t enough buyers of our debt out there, this country is really in trouble.

U.S. Treasury prices fluctuate all the time, and it most certainly affects us….if there is a sell off in treasuries, the interest rate goes up, and the US government has to pay the market rate on newly issued debt.

The US government buys debt (the Federal Reserve bought Treasuries during the financial crisis to help keep rates low). Think about what a sharp selloff in Treasuries would do to all of the mutual funds, pension funds, etc.

I wasn’t even thinking about repossession…the thought of what would happen if there’s not a large enough market for our debt is bad enough.

Think of the panic that sets in whenever raising the debt limit is discussed.

Don Sutherland
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Don Sutherland

This would probably be a last resort, as China would also inflict severe harm upon itself. A severe retaliatory measure prior to such a last resort could include China’s imposing export limits on rare earth minerals to the United States. China produces the overwhelming share of the world’s supply of these minerals today. Such minerals are vital to a whole range of commercial and military technology. More than likely, China would take that step before it would resort to dumping Treasury securities. It had reduced its Treasury holdings by nearly $46 billion from February 2018 to February 2019 (but increased them by about $9.5 billion since November 2018, likely in response to somewhat higher yields).

Lillie Belle
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Lillie Belle

Avatarkleindropper The American taxpayer has been subsidizing farmers (including dairy) and ranchers for DECADES. This is a fact that I have seen first hand. Hubby and I have never taken a dime, but we both personally know many that have.

Lillie Belle
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Lillie Belle

Farm subsidy database

https://farm.ewg.org/

BlackR1
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BlackR1

Even Larry Kudlow ADMITS that Trump is LYING when he says “the Tariffs will mostly be paid for by China, some are trying to spin this…. but it’s ultimately China that will pay these Tariffs.”

FALSE.

Tariffs are a tax on imported goods, paid for first by the retailer, then passed on to the CONSUMER.

China might see their GDP dip, but China WILL NOT be paying these Tariffs, WE WILL.

https://twitter.com/FoxNewsSunday/status/1127566558430212097

tyman
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tyman

Hear, hear! I was saying that all day yesterday and the responses were mostly rude. Someone even said I shouldn’t post at all if I don’t understand the “dynamics”.

Good night…I thought I was on Breitbart…

Squirrelly
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Squirrelly

If any of you listen to podcasts and want to learn some good information about our trade relations with China and other countries like India as well as the history of how we got where we are, I recommend Red Pilled America and the 3 part series, “American Icon.” They use the baseball cap to tell the story. It’s an interesting and informative listen. I use the iHeart Radio platform, but I’m sure they are on others.

I don’t know if the tariffs will be good and do what we need in the long run but something definitely needs to be done, and it goes beyond just being a country with a manufacturing economy.

soleil
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soleil

I would do this a different way.
Bring the jobs back to America, give those American companies operating in China tax breaks.

Sentinel
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Sentinel

Avatarsoleil

I think that’s a BIG part of the answer. Very simple and logical.

nc checks and balances
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nc checks and balances

SquirrellySquirrelly I LOVE Red Pilled America!!! I haven’t yet had a chance to listen to the American Icon series – I really want to listen when I can take the time to concentrate – but that is the BEST podcast ever! They do a variety of subjects and they’re all great.

FYI you can also subscribe thru iTunes or the Apple podcast app.

Squirrelly
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Squirrelly

I listen on Saturday mornings when I have my coffee. Husband nor kids are stirring then. grin

Landscaper
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Landscaper

Tariffs and trade are certainly above my pay grade so I can’t add a lot to the debate of the trade battle with China. However, a possible dramatic negative impact on the economy does make me nervous this close to 2020 because voters are fickle.
The thought of losing the Senate, more seats in the House and a Democrat becoming President scares the hell out of me.
Obama’s eight years had a dramatic negative impact on me and everyone I know and we are still feeling the effects of the destruction Obama caused.

Lillie Belle
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Lillie Belle

We are the “piggy bank” that everyone wants to raid and take advantage of. NO MORE!

I like that he spoke that truth.

Abe Lincoln
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Abe Lincoln

Love him or hate him. He speaks truth!

iidvbii
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iidvbii

I don’t like the idea of a trade war, especially going into an election. But I feel addressing China’s dirty underhanded trade policies is something we must do. For 30 years they have stolen our intellectual property, manipulated their currency to ensure financial advantages and locked our products out of their markets. We either need free, fair and honest trade or we need to find new partners and move past China.

Sentinel
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Sentinel

iidvbiiiidvbii

I agree – well said.

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